Travel Soccer teams around NOVA let's discuss

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OK, Q for those who've been around the block with travel soccer:

DS, U9 next fall, will probably have a choice between (1) playing in an academy-style program that fields NCSL teams, and in which he doesn't know any of the kids right now, or (2) playing on an ODSL team in his current league with kids he knows.

I know he would choose (2) -- he very much likes the known quantity. But from reading this thread, I wonder if we would be making a mistake by not getting into a more structured program at U9, when there are more spots up for grabs? Or are we risking burnout by pushing him too much at age 8?

At U9? ODSL. Keep it fun for him. If it's U12, maybe he takes the NCSL opportunity so he's ready for high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OK, Q for those who've been around the block with travel soccer:

DS, U9 next fall, will probably have a choice between (1) playing in an academy-style program that fields NCSL teams, and in which he doesn't know any of the kids right now, or (2) playing on an ODSL team in his current league with kids he knows.

I know he would choose (2) -- he very much likes the known quantity. But from reading this thread, I wonder if we would be making a mistake by not getting into a more structured program at U9, when there are more spots up for grabs? Or are we risking burnout by pushing him too much at age 8?

At U9? ODSL. Keep it fun for him. If it's U12, maybe he takes the NCSL opportunity so he's ready for high school.[/quote]

This. My son's NCSL team got picked up a number of boys from ODSL at U-12 or 13. They're now some of the best players on the team. Lots of things change in middle school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OK, Q for those who've been around the block with travel soccer:

DS, U9 next fall, will probably have a choice between (1) playing in an academy-style program that fields NCSL teams, and in which he doesn't know any of the kids right now, or (2) playing on an ODSL team in his current league with kids he knows.

I know he would choose (2) -- he very much likes the known quantity. But from reading this thread, I wonder if we would be making a mistake by not getting into a more structured program at U9, when there are more spots up for grabs? Or are we risking burnout by pushing him too much at age 8?

At U9? ODSL. Keep it fun for him. If it's U12, maybe he takes the NCSL opportunity so he's ready for high school.

But why assume the NCSL option would be less fun than the ODSL one? I agree with the earlier poster who recommended the academy-style option. Younger kids will almost always be nervous about joining a new team with unknow kids, but they are virtually always able to make friends on the new team within a matter of days. If they are competitive by nature, all the better. They'll enjoy mastering new skills and trying to catch up to or surpass the level of the other kids. The most important thing is to make sure the coach knows what he's doing and keeps the kids engaged and learning. If the team offers that, then it's just a great bonus that you'll be able to get your son in at the start and not have to go through a very stressful competition for a very few availabe spots down the road.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OK, Q for those who've been around the block with travel soccer:

DS, U9 next fall, will probably have a choice between (1) playing in an academy-style program that fields NCSL teams, and in which he doesn't know any of the kids right now, or (2) playing on an ODSL team in his current league with kids he knows.

I know he would choose (2) -- he very much likes the known quantity. But from reading this thread, I wonder if we would be making a mistake by not getting into a more structured program at U9, when there are more spots up for grabs? Or are we risking burnout by pushing him too much at age 8?

At U9? ODSL. Keep it fun for him. If it's U12, maybe he takes the NCSL opportunity so he's ready for high school.

But why assume the NCSL option would be less fun than the ODSL one? I agree with the earlier poster who recommended the academy-style option. Younger kids will almost always be nervous about joining a new team with unknow kids, but they are virtually always able to make friends on the new team within a matter of days. If they are competitive by nature, all the better. They'll enjoy mastering new skills and trying to catch up to or surpass the level of the other kids. The most important thing is to make sure the coach knows what he's doing and keeps the kids engaged and learning. If the team offers that, then it's just a great bonus that you'll be able to get your son in at the start and not have to go through a very stressful competition for a very few availabe spots down the road.

I didn't know a single player on my travel soccer team as a kid. The girls came from all over the VA/MD/DC region because we were a top team. We ended up playing together from 4th grade until Sophomore year of HS. I became incredibly close with many of them. Sleepovers, bday parties. I still talk to at least two of them now in my 40s. My son already has made friends over the course of tryouts with a few boys..and knew a bunch of others from various summer camps or preschool over the years. Kids will surprise you on how well they adapt. I actually liked having a second set of friends outside of my home school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Consistent with its "Vienna first" policy, in Eddie's academies, VYS just reshuffles and will take very few if any players from outside the club. Eddie would rather promote a house player to the D team than accept a B team player from outside the club. That's one of the reasons why VYS teams regress over time, as whenever any player leaves a team, they're almost alwaysreplaced by a player from the next lower level team, who is by definition not as good. The remaining good players then have the dilemma of sticking with a less-competitive team, or moving on themselves, which restarts the cycle.

That's interesting. It sounds like VYS is one of the few area programs trying to follow a relatively pure development model with not much focus on making sure teams are competetive enough in the short term to win games and tournaments. Is the theory that after a few years of the same kids receiving focused training the teams will start to be competetive by virtue of the kids' well developed skills, tactical knowledge, etc? Or is winning not part of the equation at all? Even if the kids involved end up being well-rounded soccer players, I'd think most parents who stick with travel soccer through high school eventually want their kids to be on teams good enough to get into showcase tournaments so they can potentially be scouted for college.

You've basically got it in terms of the VYS philosophy.

Players who are good enough for college (a much smaller group than we realize) are going to stand out. They might make ODP. They might go to D.C. United's Academy (and yes, players have gone straight from VYS to D.C. United's Academy).

I do think VYS goes too far at times in stressing development over winning. You still want 9- and 10-year-old kids to have good experiences. VYS takes so many kids (without a selection process) to the U8 "crossover" program that they're going to get pummeled in a few games, and that's no fun for anyone.

But the basic intent is good. Just needs some tweaking.

VYS did just fine and I believe won most of their games against FPYC at the U8 crossover level. They don't keep score so I'm not sure it matters anyway. Unbelievable how competitive parents are in this area for their 7 year olds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:VYS did just fine and I believe won most of their games against FPYC at the U8 crossover level. They don't keep score so I'm not sure it matters anyway. Unbelievable how competitive parents are in this area for their 7 year olds.

Not in the fall, as far as I know.

No, we don't keep score, but when you've given up around 10 goals and scored none, it's kind of obvious. I didn't care about "wins" or "losses," and I understand the VYS philosophy there. But the kids didn't get a chance to try anything they were learning -- they were just hanging on for dear life. I know it's a bit better in the spring, but there may be a few things VYS can do to make sure the first few games aren't totally lopsided. In general, it's a good program, and Jane Dawber is a good, responsive teacher.

A couple of other clubs brought All-Star teams or serious "pre-travel" teams that weren't even bothering with House any more. They'd show up with their pro coaches, play perfect soccer, then clear out in apparent ignorance of the fact that all teams were supposed to help clean up.

Lee Mount Vernon, I should point out, is a terrific host. Great attitudes, great people.

Which brings me to a segue -- isn't anyone on this board involved with another NoVa club? How are things in Reston? Great Falls? SYC? SYA? CYC? CYA? ABCDEFG?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Consistent with its "Vienna first" policy, in Eddie's academies, VYS just reshuffles and will take very few if any players from outside the club. Eddie would rather promote a house player to the D team than accept a B team player from outside the club. That's one of the reasons why VYS teams regress over time, as whenever any player leaves a team, they're almost alwaysreplaced by a player from the next lower level team, who is by definition not as good. The remaining good players then have the dilemma of sticking with a less-competitive team, or moving on themselves, which restarts the cycle.

That's interesting. It sounds like VYS is one of the few area programs trying to follow a relatively pure development model with not much focus on making sure teams are competetive enough in the short term to win games and tournaments. Is the theory that after a few years of the same kids receiving focused training the teams will start to be competetive by virtue of the kids' well developed skills, tactical knowledge, etc? Or is winning not part of the equation at all? Even if the kids involved end up being well-rounded soccer players, I'd think most parents who stick with travel soccer through high school eventually want their kids to be on teams good enough to get into showcase tournaments so they can potentially be scouted for college.

You've basically got it in terms of the VYS philosophy.

Players who are good enough for college (a much smaller group than we realize) are going to stand out. They might make ODP. They might go to D.C. United's Academy (and yes, players have gone straight from VYS to D.C. United's Academy).

I do think VYS goes too far at times in stressing development over winning. You still want 9- and 10-year-old kids to have good experiences. VYS takes so many kids (without a selection process) to the U8 "crossover" program that they're going to get pummeled in a few games, and that's no fun for anyone.

But the basic intent is good. Just needs some tweaking.

The issue at VYS travel TODAY is simply lack of value...same price for much less soccer development. Travel soccer is expensive and there should be value for the money spent.

VYS "develops" by lumping in players with severe disparity in ability into the same training session groups. These children are in the same 4-person drill and very little time is spent working with their team and coach per week. This is neither challenging nor fun for the talented players and is often discouraging for the lesser talented players or newcomers to the travel program. Not a win-win but the opposite.

The practices are slow, boring and filled with scrimmages between mismatched teams. After the initial excitement of something new wears off, the kids are simply not having fun consistently, and isn't FUN the point of youth (U12 and under) soccer? It has to be fun for everyone - the causal and the serious player. VYS will tell you, in no uncertain terms, that if you are a serious and passionate soccer player, you would be better served at other clubs. This type of philosophy is not how you build a strong and healthy program. Over time, the kids that love the game are gone.

There is absolutely no reason to not be able to challenge every child from top to bottom and have them all enjoy their experience. It just takes more thought and more effort from all those involved - technical director down.

There are great people at VYS hoping to strengthen and grow the program but over time complacency has created these issues and too many people now are more concerned about being "in charge" rather than fixing things.

In addition to reading these posts, anyone making these decisions should personally visit the practices of a team or teams you're considering and see for yourself. Pay attention to how active the training is, how engaged the trainer or coach is and if the kids are enjoying themselves while giving effort. I would be hesitant to solely consider the words of others, including my own words here, when making a decision.

[Anonymous]

Does anyone know what the landscape in MoCo is like? This thread has been very helpful in learning how travel soccer works. We went to a U8 tryout for Bethesda, but were overwhelmed by the amount of kids, competitive parents and the general feel of a cattle call. What are the good programs in the area? Do any focus on development? What if you have a kid that wants to play above MSI rec teams, but not commit to travel? Any teams with professional coaching that are not full travel? Thanks!

[Anonymous]

Another question -- We went to see a club DS might join play in a tournament game this weekend, and the team apparently had moved some of its players down to the "B" team and was playing with several "guest" players, who were very good, on the "A" squad.

Is this a common occurrence at U9 and U10? Is this a way to try out new kids, or is the team just trying to do anything to win? This whole world is such mystery to me.

[Anonymous]

I think a lot of the VYS discussion in here is productive, but I don't get the "just there to get a paycheck" talk. Paid coaches get paid. McLean, Arlington and a few others shell out for the big names who've coached higher-level teams. Why would VYS coaches have any less incentive than anyone else?

VYS has paid trainers not coaches, the trainers certainly DO NOT act like other paid trainers/coaches you see from other teams. The trainers train with the kids a total of an hour (maybe) a week. Other teams, the coaches attend games and tournaments and actually go over the game and train the players you NEVER see that type of involvement with VYS staff. Jane and Eddie and the other trainers attend a game or two at most a season and do nothing with the boys just observe. It's a shame, the parents are good people and the organization is failing these kids and parents!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I think a lot of the VYS discussion in here is productive, but I don't get the "just there to get a paycheck" talk. Paid coaches get paid. McLean, Arlington and a few others shell out for the big names who've coached higher-level teams. Why would VYS coaches have any less incentive than anyone else?

VYS has paid trainers not coaches, the trainers certainly DO NOT act like other paid trainers/coaches you see from other teams. The trainers train with the kids a total of an hour (maybe) a week. Other teams, the coaches attend games and tournaments and actually go over the game and train the players you NEVER see that type of involvement with VYS staff. Jane and Eddie and the other trainers attend a game or two at most a season and do nothing with the boys just observe. It's a shame, the parents are good people and the organization is failing these kids and parents!



Other clubs (maybe half to two-thirds) have professional coaches for each team. Those coaches have a few teams each, so they'll miss a few games along the way. VYS doesn't do that until U11 or so. Until then, it's Jane and Eddie running training sessions for each age group, and then the parent coaches handle the games.

Is that better? I don't know. Pro coaches are expensive, of course. And they surely feel more pressure to win NOW rather than develop players. The two schools of thoughts are:

1. "Yes, of course you need professional coaches. These are the prime development years."

2. "Why am I paying to have a former pro player who doesn't know my 9-year-old the way their House coaches did? And all I hear about is 12-year-olds getting burned out while most pro players were playing multiple sports and not getting too serious about soccer until their teens?"

Frankly, both are valid. So VYS tries to strike the balance of having Jane, Eddie and company working with multiple teams but not going out to every game -- which would be physically impossible, anyway.

But the VYS philosophy leads to questions like this:

VYS "develops" by lumping in players with severe disparity in ability into the same training session groups. These children are in the same 4-person drill and very little time is spent working with their team and coach per week. This is neither challenging nor fun for the talented players and is often discouraging for the lesser talented players or newcomers to the travel program. Not a win-win but the opposite.

A good coach should be able to challenge everyone regardless of ability level. Every team is going to have a few differences of ability, and the coach has to respond.

Also, you want to give players who are a little behind at 8 years old a chance to catch up. Otherwise, you're just going with some old-school Communist-bloc system where you pick the "best" kids at age 8. Congratulations, 10th-most-physically-developed 8-year-old. You're on the A team and will get the best coaching for the rest of your youth. Sorry, 11th-most-physically-developed 8-year-old. You're on the B team. And those of you who didn't start until age 8? Yeah, forget you.

BUT - you do want to be sure the "gifted" kids are getting instruction to meet their needs. And everyone's different. Among my House 8-year-olds who made Travel, one had a big leg but not much sense of what to do with it, one was a speedster who had already figured out how to run the flanks and cross, one was a worker bee who could turn in tight spaces, and one could beat everyone with the ball but couldn't finish. They all have different challenges.

VYS is doing things "by the book," perhaps moreso than any other club in the area. But you could argue that the various curricula (USSF, USYSA) are too rigid and unimaginative.

So it's not a simple question. Just know that if you're going to VYS, you're not getting "paycheck" coaches or a bunch of blithering idiots (as people on this board often say), nor are you getting the hypercompetitive spirit you find at a lot of clubs here. You're getting a different philosophy that is rooted in the community and rooted in a lot of the current U.S. philosophy.

Is that best for everyone? Not necessarily -- some kids may turn into awesome players in other environments. The board has a bit of dysfunction, and I think the staff is sometimes overboard in its devotion to "the right way" of doing things. If it's really not for you, that's understandable. But if you're desperate for more prestige, you're going to find a lot of brutal politics come with it, and it's often not fun for anyone involved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Another question -- We went to see a club DS might join play in a tournament game this weekend, and the team apparently had moved some of its players down to the "B" team and was playing with several "guest" players, who were very good, on the "A" squad.

Is this a common occurrence at U9 and U10? Is this a way to try out new kids, or is the team just trying to do anything to win? This whole world is such mystery to me.

A little of both. And possibly replacing some absent players -- some teams lose players on Memorial Day weekend.

If they're bumping out the original B teamers for "guests" and downgraded "A" players, that might be a sign to steer clear.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know what the landscape in MoCo is like? This thread has been very helpful in learning how travel soccer works. We went to a U8 tryout for Bethesda, but were overwhelmed by the amount of kids, competitive parents and the general feel of a cattle call. What are the good programs in the area? Do any focus on development? What if you have a kid that wants to play above MSI rec teams, but not commit to travel? Any teams with professional coaching that are not full travel? Thanks!

From what I hear from my friends in MoCo, Your county makes NOVA seem relaxed and low-keyed. And the $$ are bigger up your way.

I know my friend's kid played on classic teams that had professional coaches. She was about 10.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know what the landscape in MoCo is like? This thread has been very helpful in learning how travel soccer works. We went to a U8 tryout for Bethesda, but were overwhelmed by the amount of kids, competitive parents and the general feel of a cattle call. What are the good programs in the area? Do any focus on development? What if you have a kid that wants to play above MSI rec teams, but not commit to travel? Any teams with professional coaching that are not full travel? Thanks!

We should probably take this to a different thread, but our family is very familiar with the Maryland soccer scene. We've had kids on both Bethesda and Potomac, and have friends with kids on a variety of other clubs. I can easily see being overwhelmed by the masses at a Bethesda tryout, but in our opinion it's an excellent option for boys who are athletic and are (or may become) serious about soccer. There are many outstanding coaches at the younger age groups, and once your child is assigned to a team, things would likely feel much less overwhelming. Competitive parents are not avoidable around Bethesda, but I expect you'd find most of the parents you might interact with on a team to be much less irritating one on one--that has been our experience anyway.

I can't speak for the girls' side of the program, but the boys' side is definitely focused on development, and they spend a lot of time on skills and making sure kids know how to play proper soccer (i.e., not kick and run). I have heard that they charge significantly less for the U8-U10 age groups than for the older kids' teams (we entered the program a bit later), and if so, this is less than Potomac and some of the other area clubs charge. It is true that, compared to what I've read about VYS on this thread, the club places more emphasis on making sure they have A and sometimes B teams that are competitive in whatever league they are playing in, but this doesn't kick in until U10 or so. Potomac isn't nearly as well organized as Bethesda overall, but it's also a good option for a kid who wants to learn how to play good soccer. They are both head and shoulders above MSI classic if your kid has the potential to become a serious player, and you don't mind spending the extra money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The issue at VYS travel TODAY is simply lack of value...same price for much less soccer development. Travel soccer is expensive and there should be value for the money spent.

This is exactly right. If you compare what you get with VYS travel with other clubs, you pay more but get less. Compare McLean and BRYC, where you pay less than VYS but you get three training sessions instead of two per week.

In terms of working for a paycheck, the issue is that unlike other clubs, at VYS, they cut a deal where Eddie Lima still gets to run his training company so that VYS can pay him less. As a result, Eddie only hires his trainers and coaches, and those of other companies, -- such as the son of the guy who helps hire the VYSA ODP trainers -- that can help him, with quality and coaching competence a secondary consideration. Since so many of the trainers work for Eddie and he gets a cut of their earnings since they also work for him, VYS trainers can overcharge and overschedule practices with impunity because Eddie makes more money the more they cheat the VYS parents. Wonder if Eddie's supposed boss wasn't ao concerned about keeping his daughter on a travel team, if he would have looked after the interests of VYS' parents.