Question for anxious parents: what are you truly afraid of?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is anyone worried about spending 400K on their kids' college degree and then the kid can't find a job?

I will get criticized, but this is my honest observation:

Families who can comfortably pay $400k for 1 DC's college (so often over $1million for 2 kids esp if you consider this is post-tax net dollars and the opportunity investment cost) don't actually stress that much about whether their kids get can a job. They may have high expectations for getting the most prestigious and top-earning jobs, but these are not the families who fear their kids will starve and be homeless. Among our friend group, even those who have "normal great" jobs likes doctors, engineers, accountants, sales directors, etc. with HHI $250k-600k send their kids to state schools or try to get some merit. The ones who truly pays $400k cash out of pocket without loans have HHI $1mm+, and they are not worries their kids can't find any job. These parents and kids have enough connections, resources and frankly higher-than-average IQ that even if they don't get their dream job, they know they won't be working at Walmart.

I find it's typically the first-gen parents in the $200k-500k HHI category who are most intense about Ivies/T10 colleges. They have had some success themselves but are not secure about keeping that upward mobility going, and if they had seen someone at work getting promoted in the fast lane or a new young boss coming in with a HYP degree, that's all it takes to get them obsessed about getting into T10. Many top 1% families I know actually care less about Ivies, jobs after undergrad and prefer the WASP and grad school route.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is anyone worried about spending 400K on their kids' college degree and then the kid can't find a job?

I will get criticized, but this is my honest observation:

Families who can comfortably pay $400k for 1 DC's college (so often over $1million for 2 kids esp if you consider this is post-tax net dollars and the opportunity investment cost) don't actually stress that much about whether their kids get can a job. They may have high expectations for getting the most prestigious and top-earning jobs, but these are not the families who fear their kids will starve and be homeless. Among our friend group, even those who have "normal great" jobs likes doctors, engineers, accountants, sales directors, etc. with HHI $250k-600k send their kids to state schools or try to get some merit. The ones who truly pays $400k cash out of pocket without loans have HHI $1mm+, and they are not worries their kids can't find any job. These parents and kids have enough connections, resources and frankly higher-than-average IQ that even if they don't get their dream job, they know they won't be working at Walmart.

I find it's typically the first-gen parents in the $200k-500k HHI category who are most intense about Ivies/T10 colleges. They have had some success themselves but are not secure about keeping that upward mobility going, and if they had seen someone at work getting promoted in the fast lane or a new young boss coming in with a HYP degree, that's all it takes to get them obsessed about getting into T10. Many top 1% families I know actually care less about Ivies, jobs after undergrad and prefer the WASP and grad school route.

Spot on. And chances are those parents themselves came from top-10 schools in their home countries.

In reality, the fast lane in this country is still reserved for certain groups. Immigrants may or may not recognize this, but they either conform to it—or their children actually see through it and try to break through the ceiling by starting their own businesses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s so interesting folks think college is the magic hack. It’s not. Plenty of average top grads out there who flounder.

And your kid isn’t going to marry a Rockefeller if they go to a top school. There is still a lot of social stratification. The rich kids from certain families and private schools all find each other and hang out together. IYKYK.

Anyone that has ever gone to a private schools knows that stratification occurs, HOWEVER, the stratification is not impermeable.

Really attractive boys and especially girls can and do cross class barriers.

Race plays a role.

Signals of future success play a role.

Maybe for casual hookups or a situationship. At best.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s so interesting folks think college is the magic hack. It’s not. Plenty of average top grads out there who flounder.

And your kid isn’t going to marry a Rockefeller if they go to a top school. There is still a lot of social stratification. The rich kids from certain families and private schools all find each other and hang out together. IYKYK.

Anyone that has ever gone to a private schools knows that stratification occurs, HOWEVER, the stratification is not impermeable.

Really attractive boys and especially girls can and do cross class barriers.

Race plays a role.

Signals of future success play a role.

Maybe for casual hookups or a situationship. At best.

Wild guess, but I think IQ and appearance will eventually be genetically modifiable. For now, people use AI to boost IQ and plastic surgery to improve appearance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in central Jersey with a large Asian population, and I was Jewish. That peer group that valued education was incredible. Who do you think the doctors and engineers are that take care of this country. It's the quiet, studious, driven immigrant population. That peer group, I am sorry, was, and still is, priceless, and is found at the top schools in the country, and maybe Rutgers. I'd be ok with Rutgers, honestly.

Top schools no longer produce the doctors and engineers who take care of this country. They produced investment bankers and management consultants. To become a doctor or engineer you go to Rutgers or a similar state school.

Look at how far behind we are compared to countries that truly value bright minds. Our smartest kids should be innovating and leading humanity and communities forward.

I’m sorry but many of these countries are sending all their kids here now for college.

And for work. Clearly PP downs even know how to google stats before posting SM nonsense.

Like it or not, I don’t think the smartest and most ambitious people are coming for our colleges. Based on some of the posts I’ve seen, many who come to the U.S. do so because they can’t compete in their own countries. They come for work, yes—because the pay is better—but if that’s the case, what does that mean for our kids?

Look at LinkedIn profiles across companies and you start seeing more and more foreign universities. Doesn’t that worry you?

Correct. People who don't believe this are like the people who didn't believe that Chinese EVs and their production is better than what is going on in the US.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is anyone worried about spending 400K on their kids' college degree and then the kid can't find a job?

I will get criticized, but this is my honest observation:

Families who can comfortably pay $400k for 1 DC's college (so often over $1million for 2 kids esp if you consider this is post-tax net dollars and the opportunity investment cost) don't actually stress that much about whether their kids get can a job. They may have high expectations for getting the most prestigious and top-earning jobs, but these are not the families who fear their kids will starve and be homeless. Among our friend group, even those who have "normal great" jobs likes doctors, engineers, accountants, sales directors, etc. with HHI $250k-600k send their kids to state schools or try to get some merit. The ones who truly pays $400k cash out of pocket without loans have HHI $1mm+, and they are not worries their kids can't find any job. These parents and kids have enough connections, resources and frankly higher-than-average IQ that even if they don't get their dream job, they know they won't be working at Walmart.

I find it's typically the first-gen parents in the $200k-500k HHI category who are most intense about Ivies/T10 colleges. They have had some success themselves but are not secure about keeping that upward mobility going, and if they had seen someone at work getting promoted in the fast lane or a new young boss coming in with a HYP degree, that's all it takes to get them obsessed about getting into T10. Many top 1% families I know actually care less about Ivies, jobs after undergrad and prefer the WASP and grad school route.

Spot on. And chances are those parents themselves came from top-10 schools in their home countries.

In reality, the fast lane in this country is still reserved for certain groups. Immigrants may or may not recognize this, but they either conform to it—or their children actually see through it and try to break through the ceiling by starting their own businesses.

NP. I don’t quite understand your last point, but I would not agree that kids of immigrants are cut off. In fact, the young adults I see having the most financial success HAPPEN to be kids of immigrants, either 1st or 2nd gen.

They are smart, driven, entrepreneurial, and scrappy. They are also well connected, and have built their own tribes that reward and help each other.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in central Jersey with a large Asian population, and I was Jewish. That peer group that valued education was incredible. Who do you think the doctors and engineers are that take care of this country. It's the quiet, studious, driven immigrant population. That peer group, I am sorry, was, and still is, priceless, and is found at the top schools in the country, and maybe Rutgers. I'd be ok with Rutgers, honestly.

Top schools no longer produce the doctors and engineers who take care of this country. They produced investment bankers and management consultants. To become a doctor or engineer you go to Rutgers or a similar state school.

Look at how far behind we are compared to countries that truly value bright minds. Our smartest kids should be innovating and leading humanity and communities forward.

I’m sorry but many of these countries are sending all their kids here now for college.

And for work. Clearly PP downs even know how to google stats before posting SM nonsense.

Like it or not, I don’t think the smartest and most ambitious people are coming for our colleges. Based on some of the posts I’ve seen, many who come to the U.S. do so because they can’t compete in their own countries. They come for work, yes—because the pay is better—but if that’s the case, what does that mean for our kids?

Look at LinkedIn profiles across companies and you start seeing more and more foreign universities. Doesn’t that worry you?

\

This. Very few kids that get into Tsinghua are coming here to study at Ivy for undergrad. Very few kids that got into Tokyo U or Seoul National are coming here for undergrad. I don't know the situation in India but I expect there is a similar situation there. If they are coming here for undergrad, it is likely not for STEM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in central Jersey with a large Asian population, and I was Jewish. That peer group that valued education was incredible. Who do you think the doctors and engineers are that take care of this country. It's the quiet, studious, driven immigrant population. That peer group, I am sorry, was, and still is, priceless, and is found at the top schools in the country, and maybe Rutgers. I'd be ok with Rutgers, honestly.

Top schools no longer produce the doctors and engineers who take care of this country. They produced investment bankers and management consultants. To become a doctor or engineer you go to Rutgers or a similar state school.

Look at how far behind we are compared to countries that truly value bright minds. Our smartest kids should be innovating and leading humanity and communities forward.

I’m sorry but many of these countries are sending all their kids here now for college.

And for work. Clearly PP downs even know how to google stats before posting SM nonsense.

Like it or not, I don’t think the smartest and most ambitious people are coming for our colleges. Based on some of the posts I’ve seen, many who come to the U.S. do so because they can’t compete in their own countries. They come for work, yes—because the pay is better—but if that’s the case, what does that mean for our kids?

Look at LinkedIn profiles across companies and you start seeing more and more foreign universities. Doesn’t that worry you?

Correct. People who don't believe this are like the people who didn't believe that Chinese EVs and their production is better than what is going on in the US.

One of my best friends is an incredibly talented Indian engineer (I’m not Indian). I casually asked him why he hadn’t considered moving to the U.S., and he was amused by the idea. Soon after, he left our company to start his own business in India. He’s doing so well that I think there’s a large pool of ambitious Indian and Chinese engineers out there who can succeed without ever needing to move to the U.S.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is anyone worried about spending 400K on their kids' college degree and then the kid can't find a job?

I will get criticized, but this is my honest observation:

Families who can comfortably pay $400k for 1 DC's college (so often over $1million for 2 kids esp if you consider this is post-tax net dollars and the opportunity investment cost) don't actually stress that much about whether their kids get can a job. They may have high expectations for getting the most prestigious and top-earning jobs, but these are not the families who fear their kids will starve and be homeless. Among our friend group, even those who have "normal great" jobs likes doctors, engineers, accountants, sales directors, etc. with HHI $250k-600k send their kids to state schools or try to get some merit. The ones who truly pays $400k cash out of pocket without loans have HHI $1mm+, and they are not worries their kids can't find any job. These parents and kids have enough connections, resources and frankly higher-than-average IQ that even if they don't get their dream job, they know they won't be working at Walmart.

I find it's typically the first-gen parents in the $200k-500k HHI category who are most intense about Ivies/T10 colleges. They have had some success themselves but are not secure about keeping that upward mobility going, and if they had seen someone at work getting promoted in the fast lane or a new young boss coming in with a HYP degree, that's all it takes to get them obsessed about getting into T10. Many top 1% families I know actually care less about Ivies, jobs after undergrad and prefer the WASP and grad school route.

Spot on. And chances are those parents themselves came from top-10 schools in their home countries.

In reality, the fast lane in this country is still reserved for certain groups. Immigrants may or may not recognize this, but they either conform to it—or their children actually see through it and try to break through the ceiling by starting their own businesses.

NP. I don’t quite understand your last point, but I would not agree that kids of immigrants are cut off. In fact, the young adults I see having the most financial success HAPPEN to be kids of immigrants, either 1st or 2nd gen.

They are smart, driven, entrepreneurial, and scrappy. They are also well connected, and have built their own tribes that reward and help each other.

I hope not. Otherwise, there’s always the option to return to their parents’ home country, where they would still be respected if they are truly bright and capable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is anyone worried about spending 400K on their kids' college degree and then the kid can't find a job?

I will get criticized, but this is my honest observation:

Families who can comfortably pay $400k for 1 DC's college (so often over $1million for 2 kids esp if you consider this is post-tax net dollars and the opportunity investment cost) don't actually stress that much about whether their kids get can a job. They may have high expectations for getting the most prestigious and top-earning jobs, but these are not the families who fear their kids will starve and be homeless. Among our friend group, even those who have "normal great" jobs likes doctors, engineers, accountants, sales directors, etc. with HHI $250k-600k send their kids to state schools or try to get some merit. The ones who truly pays $400k cash out of pocket without loans have HHI $1mm+, and they are not worries their kids can't find any job. These parents and kids have enough connections, resources and frankly higher-than-average IQ that even if they don't get their dream job, they know they won't be working at Walmart.

I find it's typically the first-gen parents in the $200k-500k HHI category who are most intense about Ivies/T10 colleges. They have had some success themselves but are not secure about keeping that upward mobility going, and if they had seen someone at work getting promoted in the fast lane or a new young boss coming in with a HYP degree, that's all it takes to get them obsessed about getting into T10. Many top 1% families I know actually care less about Ivies, jobs after undergrad and prefer the WASP and grad school route.

Spot on. And chances are those parents themselves came from top-10 schools in their home countries.

In reality, the fast lane in this country is still reserved for certain groups. Immigrants may or may not recognize this, but they either conform to it—or their children actually see through it and try to break through the ceiling by starting their own businesses.

NP. I don’t quite understand your last point, but I would not agree that kids of immigrants are cut off. In fact, the young adults I see having the most financial success HAPPEN to be kids of immigrants, either 1st or 2nd gen.

They are smart, driven, entrepreneurial, and scrappy. They are also well connected, and have built their own tribes that reward and help each other.

I hope not. Otherwise, there’s always the option to return to their parents’ home country, where they would still be respected if they are truly bright and capable.

Apologies if I wasn’t clear. What I meant is that if college admissions or career promotion are used to block truly bright immigrant kids, they’ll find alternatives—because they can.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm afraid of my child slipping into a different social class than the one I grew up in and am most comfortable with. I don't mean in terms of money--I am not wealthy--but in terms of habits of the mind. At home and in school, I grew up around people who read books, discussed history, understood scientific principles, were curious about the world, appreciated fine art and music, and were generally very smart. I get nervous that if my child attends a lower-ranked school, his peer group will be comprised of less intellectual people and that this will dull his mind a bit.

LOL.

[Anonymous]

Being well off in India affords you a much more comfortable life than the same income in the U.S. and you don’t have to deal with racism. It’s also a more social life

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s so interesting folks think college is the magic hack. It’s not. Plenty of average top grads out there who flounder.

And your kid isn’t going to marry a Rockefeller if they go to a top school. There is still a lot of social stratification. The rich kids from certain families and private schools all find each other and hang out together. IYKYK.

Anyone that has ever gone to a private schools knows that stratification occurs, HOWEVER, the stratification is not impermeable.

Really attractive boys and especially girls can and do cross class barriers.

Race plays a role.

Signals of future success play a role.

Maybe for casual hookups or a situationship. At best.

Both in private school and at private colleges, the kids are drawn to kids in similar socioeconomic tiers but it is not usually deliberate. Commonality of interests and high levels of competency or charisma will penetrate whatever class barriers that might exist. If a working class kid is Will Hunting then everyone will want to associate with him. If a kid is extremely charismatic or attractive, people are almost by definition drawn to them and not just for sex. If you are good at a sport then others that play that sport will associate with you. Competency and charisma overcomes class barriers..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is anyone worried about spending 400K on their kids' college degree and then the kid can't find a job?

I will get criticized, but this is my honest observation:

Families who can comfortably pay $400k for 1 DC's college (so often over $1million for 2 kids esp if you consider this is post-tax net dollars and the opportunity investment cost) don't actually stress that much about whether their kids get can a job. They may have high expectations for getting the most prestigious and top-earning jobs, but these are not the families who fear their kids will starve and be homeless. Among our friend group, even those who have "normal great" jobs likes doctors, engineers, accountants, sales directors, etc. with HHI $250k-600k send their kids to state schools or try to get some merit. The ones who truly pays $400k cash out of pocket without loans have HHI $1mm+, and they are not worries their kids can't find any job. These parents and kids have enough connections, resources and frankly higher-than-average IQ that even if they don't get their dream job, they know they won't be working at Walmart.

I find it's typically the first-gen parents in the $200k-500k HHI category who are most intense about Ivies/T10 colleges. They have had some success themselves but are not secure about keeping that upward mobility going, and if they had seen someone at work getting promoted in the fast lane or a new young boss coming in with a HYP degree, that's all it takes to get them obsessed about getting into T10. Many top 1% families I know actually care less about Ivies, jobs after undergrad and prefer the WASP and grad school route.

I agree with this in part.

Yes, I agee that UHNW families who can quite comfortably pay $400k+ per child are not viewing the choice of college through a lens of future economic security.

For most familes in this group, questions and concerns about job prospects - especially first jobs and average starting salaries - are much lower on the list of priorities than for other families. Unless the family has a strong "do it yourself" ethos or forced "make your own way" approach, they know their kids will graduate college with accessible generational wealth behind them and access to whatever networks they may want or need to succeed.

But I disagree about these families being less interested or intense about the Ivies/T10 colleges, especially for their kids who have succeeded in rigorous private schools and demonstrated that they meet (or are close to) the "objective" criteria for admission.

In this country, college offers many things in addition to an education and a pathway to a job and career. In America, higher education is - and always has been - a social and economic sorting tool. And my experience tells me that UHNW families do prefer to see their kids at Ivies/T10 colleges if they think it will be a good experience for them overall. This is especially true for parents who themselves had good experiences at these elite schools.






When it comes to viewing college as a vehicle for economic security, families who can comfortably pay $400k_when it comes to the focus on job security

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is anyone worried about spending 400K on their kids' college degree and then the kid can't find a job?

I will get criticized, but this is my honest observation:

Families who can comfortably pay $400k for 1 DC's college (so often over $1million for 2 kids esp if you consider this is post-tax net dollars and the opportunity investment cost) don't actually stress that much about whether their kids get can a job. They may have high expectations for getting the most prestigious and top-earning jobs, but these are not the families who fear their kids will starve and be homeless. Among our friend group, even those who have "normal great" jobs likes doctors, engineers, accountants, sales directors, etc. with HHI $250k-600k send their kids to state schools or try to get some merit. The ones who truly pays $400k cash out of pocket without loans have HHI $1mm+, and they are not worries their kids can't find any job. These parents and kids have enough connections, resources and frankly higher-than-average IQ that even if they don't get their dream job, they know they won't be working at Walmart.

I find it's typically the first-gen parents in the $200k-500k HHI category who are most intense about Ivies/T10 colleges. They have had some success themselves but are not secure about keeping that upward mobility going, and if they had seen someone at work getting promoted in the fast lane or a new young boss coming in with a HYP degree, that's all it takes to get them obsessed about getting into T10. Many top 1% families I know actually care less about Ivies, jobs after undergrad and prefer the WASP and grad school route.

I agree with this in part.

Yes, I agee that UHNW families who can quite comfortably pay $400k+ per child are not viewing the choice of college through a lens of future economic security.

For most familes in this group, questions and concerns about job prospects - especially first jobs and average starting salaries - are much lower on the list of priorities than for other families. Unless the family has a strong "do it yourself" ethos or forced "make your own way" approach, they know their kids will graduate college with accessible generational wealth behind them and access to whatever networks they may want or need to succeed.

But I disagree about these families being less interested or intense about the Ivies/T10 colleges, especially for their kids who have succeeded in rigorous private schools and demonstrated that they meet (or are close to) the "objective" criteria for admission.

In this country, college offers many things in addition to an education and a pathway to a job and career. In America, higher education is - and always has been - a social and economic sorting tool. And my experience tells me that UHNW families do prefer to see their kids at Ivies/T10 colleges if they think it will be a good experience for them overall. This is especially true for parents who themselves had good experiences at these elite schools.

When it comes to viewing college as a vehicle for economic security, families who can comfortably pay $400k_when it comes to the focus on job security

I just want to highlight the difference in what college rankings mean in East Asian countries vs. in US.

In East Asian countries the college rankings reflect purely academic excellence, not wealth. People genuinely respect you if you say you graduated from the University of Tokyo, simply for your academic achievements. Sure, socioeconomic status can provide some advantages, but ultimately it’s the student’s own performance that matters.

Because of this, students can fully enjoy their hobbies—playing soccer, baseball, games, dancing—simply for the joy of it. Extracurriculars are for fun, not to prove their worth, because their academic record already speaks for itself. I am well aware of the grinding culture in East Asia but for truly bright kids, that is not the case. They can do well academically without too much efforts not like how people portrait them that they are just NERDs. Quite the contrary.