Why do teachers allow horribly behaved kids to stay in the classroom and disrupt other kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Do you think it’s the teachers’ decision to keep these kids in their rooms? I had a student in my classroom who destroyed it. I’d say at least a few hundreds of dollars worth of my belongings were destroyed including nearly half of my classroom library, bulletin boards, art supplies, etc. It took months of documentation and a very on board admin to get this student a one on one aid (didn’t help much). The kid ended up in a different program this year.

I had no idea. I’m not a teacher so how am I suppose to know. Whatever the problem is, it has to stop.

We are letting the majority of the class suffer because of one or two struggling students.

You did not know this is the result of the “I” for Inclusion, in DEI ?

The sooner we end DEI entirely, the better.

It’s federal law and not easy to overturn

Disagree. It is being legally interpreted a certain way the past decade or so. This law passed many decades ago. It was in place when most of us went to school yet the huge over inclusion was not a thing back then. It needs better case law to course correct the extreme spot it’s devolved to at this point.

You just said the magic word (in bold). Inclusion.

I am opposed to inclusion.

More people need to get comfortable with opposing inclusion, equity, and diversity. Until they do become more comfortable saying it out loud, nothing will change in our violent and dysfunctional schools.

🙄
You’re not being helpful at all. The massive over inclusion of certain very troubled SPED kids predates the DEI push. These are not the same thing.

Correct. It’s not DEI it’s IDEA

+1 Inclusion in schools is because of IDEA law

Signed, a school psychologist

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you think it’s the teachers’ decision to keep these kids in their rooms? I had a student in my classroom who destroyed it. I’d say at least a few hundreds of dollars worth of my belongings were destroyed including nearly half of my classroom library, bulletin boards, art supplies, etc. It took months of documentation and a very on board admin to get this student a one on one aid (didn’t help much). The kid ended up in a different program this year.

I had no idea. I’m not a teacher so how am I suppose to know. Whatever the problem is, it has to stop.

We are letting the majority of the class suffer because of one or two struggling students.

You did not know this is the result of the “I” for Inclusion, in DEI ?

The sooner we end DEI entirely, the better.

It’s federal law and not easy to overturn

Disagree. It is being legally interpreted a certain way the past decade or so. This law passed many decades ago. It was in place when most of us went to school yet the huge over inclusion was not a thing back then. It needs better case law to course correct the extreme spot it’s devolved to at this point.

You just said the magic word (in bold). Inclusion.

I am opposed to inclusion.

More people need to get comfortable with opposing inclusion, equity, and diversity. Until they do become more comfortable saying it out loud, nothing will change in our violent and dysfunctional schools.

🙄
You’re not being helpful at all. The massive over inclusion of certain very troubled SPED kids predates the DEI push. These are not the same thing.

Correct. It’s not DEI it’s IDEA

Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever!

If a kid can be in a Gen Ed setting then they certainly should be. No reason to peel off kids with dyslexia for instance. But if they are massively disrupting the learning environment of the other children in the room then Gen Ed is not the appropriate setting for them. How this is not beyond obvious and being allowed to fester is mind boggling.

Precisely. I have a child with no learning or behavioral needs who is now best friends with a dyslexic child in an inclusion room with two wildly violent monsters who have repeated grades, are significantly taller and fatter than their peers, and who have parents who do NOTHING to control them. The dream of inclusion was for the capable, regulated, amazing child with dyslexia to learn with the child with no LDs- not for them and the whole functioning rest of the room to learn defense against these overindulged nasty sh!ts.

Let me guess: you also can't possibly be racist because you have black friends, too.

You should have swallowed. Enjoy the interactions with the carceral system, sounds fun, mama!

[Anonymous]

FAPE

[Anonymous]

The problem is that unfortunately some kids were restrained too much and/or sent to "calm down" rooms, so now the pendulum has swung to don't touch and student unless they are actively harming themselves or others. And by harming others adminisitrators make it seem like it if you can block a punch or something being thrown at you it doesnt' count as harm to others.

So it used to be you had a kid throwing chairs in a classroom, screaming and cussing at the top of his lungs threatening others and knocking over bookshelves and throwing computers you could restrain the student and remove the student from the classroom. The student learned in most cases they didn't want to be restrained. Other students felt safe because the offending student was taken out. Now that student has complete control to destroy a classroom and there are no consequences. So students are emboldened to do whatever they want. They walk in and out of classrooms, cuss at teachers and students, throw things, hit, bite and scratch others, etc.

So picture being in a Target and someone is upset and decides to throw things off the shelves and at other customers. It would be like the store needs to be evacuated until the person decides to calm down and leave and the police are never called. Society can't function like that. So I don't understand why people would expect schools to function like that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FAPE

And don’t forget LRE (least restrictive environment: ie, your kid’s gen ed classroom!)

It’s not up to teachers or DEI It’s because of these sped laws.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you think it’s the teachers’ decision to keep these kids in their rooms? I had a student in my classroom who destroyed it. I’d say at least a few hundreds of dollars worth of my belongings were destroyed including nearly half of my classroom library, bulletin boards, art supplies, etc. It took months of documentation and a very on board admin to get this student a one on one aid (didn’t help much). The kid ended up in a different program this year.

I had no idea. I’m not a teacher so how am I suppose to know. Whatever the problem is, it has to stop.

We are letting the majority of the class suffer because of one or two struggling students.

You did not know this is the result of the “I” for Inclusion, in DEI ?

The sooner we end DEI entirely, the better.

It’s federal law and not easy to overturn

Disagree. It is being legally interpreted a certain way the past decade or so. This law passed many decades ago. It was in place when most of us went to school yet the huge over inclusion was not a thing back then. It needs better case law to course correct the extreme spot it’s devolved to at this point.

You just said the magic word (in bold). Inclusion.

I am opposed to inclusion.

More people need to get comfortable with opposing inclusion, equity, and diversity. Until they do become more comfortable saying it out loud, nothing will change in our violent and dysfunctional schools.

🙄
You’re not being helpful at all. The massive over inclusion of certain very troubled SPED kids predates the DEI push. These are not the same thing.

Correct. It’s not DEI it’s IDEA

Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever!

If a kid can be in a Gen Ed setting then they certainly should be. No reason to peel off kids with dyslexia for instance. But if they are massively disrupting the learning environment of the other children in the room then Gen Ed is not the appropriate setting for them. How this is not beyond obvious and being allowed to fester is mind boggling.

Precisely. I have a child with no learning or behavioral needs who is now best friends with a dyslexic child in an inclusion room with two wildly violent monsters who have repeated grades, are significantly taller and fatter than their peers, and who have parents who do NOTHING to control them. The dream of inclusion was for the capable, regulated, amazing child with dyslexia to learn with the child with no LDs- not for them and the whole functioning rest of the room to learn defense against these overindulged nasty sh!ts.

Yes!! Somehow special needs kids got pulled into this discussion just to divide people. These aggressive kids are just undisciplined, angry but not SN. They need a military type school.

Look at the other posts. Some people have been very clear they want kids with special needs to be removed from inclusive environments and placed in self-contained programs.

Not all SPED kids. Just the ones that clearly cannot handle Gen Ed since they destroy the room and are a threat to other people in it.

If schools have the resources to place those kids in self-contained classrooms with support, then they certainly have the resources to provide those supports in the gen ed classrooms, which can often be enough (particularly at elementary levels).

The problem is that schools fight parents to avoid providing those supports. They make the teachers deal with the problem with little help, which is bad for the teachers, the child, and the classmates. Only when it becomes horrendous does the school start to accept that additional resources are necesssary. And sometimes that's sending them to self-contained programs are don't even come close to meeting staffing ratio guidelines for SPED.

Warehousing kids with disabilities because they're challenging isn't going to be an option, no matter how much you wish it was.

Enough? Enough for whom? Enough for the problem kids maybe but I don’t think reasonable people think it’s enough for the innocent kids who just want to learn at school without being traumatized dealing with those problem kids every day.

[Anonymous]

Public schools are just take what you get. Just be happy if lunch is provided.

[Anonymous]

OP, if you want the free option, you will get what you pay for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, if you want the free option, you will get what you pay for.

You mean instead of going to private school? The DC area has some of the best public schools in the country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So picture being in a Target and someone is upset and decides to throw things off the shelves and at other customers. It would be like the store needs to be evacuated until the person decides to calm down and leave and the police are never called. Society can't function like that. So I don't understand why people would expect schools to function like that.

Bad example. That's basically how stores operate now. It's not great, but society does function.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you think it’s the teachers’ decision to keep these kids in their rooms? I had a student in my classroom who destroyed it. I’d say at least a few hundreds of dollars worth of my belongings were destroyed including nearly half of my classroom library, bulletin boards, art supplies, etc. It took months of documentation and a very on board admin to get this student a one on one aid (didn’t help much). The kid ended up in a different program this year.

I had no idea. I’m not a teacher so how am I suppose to know. Whatever the problem is, it has to stop.

We are letting the majority of the class suffer because of one or two struggling students.

You did not know this is the result of the “I” for Inclusion, in DEI ?

The sooner we end DEI entirely, the better.

It’s federal law and not easy to overturn

Disagree. It is being legally interpreted a certain way the past decade or so. This law passed many decades ago. It was in place when most of us went to school yet the huge over inclusion was not a thing back then. It needs better case law to course correct the extreme spot it’s devolved to at this point.

You just said the magic word (in bold). Inclusion.

I am opposed to inclusion.

More people need to get comfortable with opposing inclusion, equity, and diversity. Until they do become more comfortable saying it out loud, nothing will change in our violent and dysfunctional schools.

🙄
You’re not being helpful at all. The massive over inclusion of certain very troubled SPED kids predates the DEI push. These are not the same thing.

Correct. It’s not DEI it’s IDEA

Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever!

If a kid can be in a Gen Ed setting then they certainly should be. No reason to peel off kids with dyslexia for instance. But if they are massively disrupting the learning environment of the other children in the room then Gen Ed is not the appropriate setting for them. How this is not beyond obvious and being allowed to fester is mind boggling.

Precisely. I have a child with no learning or behavioral needs who is now best friends with a dyslexic child in an inclusion room with two wildly violent monsters who have repeated grades, are significantly taller and fatter than their peers, and who have parents who do NOTHING to control them. The dream of inclusion was for the capable, regulated, amazing child with dyslexia to learn with the child with no LDs- not for them and the whole functioning rest of the room to learn defense against these overindulged nasty sh!ts.

Yes!! Somehow special needs kids got pulled into this discussion just to divide people. These aggressive kids are just undisciplined, angry but not SN. They need a military type school.

Look at the other posts. Some people have been very clear they want kids with special needs to be removed from inclusive environments and placed in self-contained programs.

Not all SPED kids. Just the ones that clearly cannot handle Gen Ed since they destroy the room and are a threat to other people in it.

If schools have the resources to place those kids in self-contained classrooms with support, then they certainly have the resources to provide those supports in the gen ed classrooms, which can often be enough (particularly at elementary levels).

The problem is that schools fight parents to avoid providing those supports. They make the teachers deal with the problem with little help, which is bad for the teachers, the child, and the classmates. Only when it becomes horrendous does the school start to accept that additional resources are necesssary. And sometimes that's sending them to self-contained programs are don't even come close to meeting staffing ratio guidelines for SPED.

Warehousing kids with disabilities because they're challenging isn't going to be an option, no matter how much you wish it was.

Enough? Enough for whom? Enough for the problem kids maybe but I don’t think reasonable people think it’s enough for the innocent kids who just want to learn at school without being traumatized dealing with those problem kids every day.

If frequent violent behaviors remain, then no, it isn't enough for anyone. But we very often don't even get to that point because the schools won't provide the resources in the classroom.

[Anonymous]

It's so hard for a teacher to get a kid moved. My cousin is a 4th grade teacher and she tried all year to get a kid who was a chair and desk thrower moved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So picture being in a Target and someone is upset and decides to throw things off the shelves and at other customers. It would be like the store needs to be evacuated until the person decides to calm down and leave and the police are never called. Society can't function like that. So I don't understand why people would expect schools to function like that.

Bad example. That's basically how stores operate now. It's not great, but society does function.

Cops don't even respond to violent smash-and-grab robberies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, if you want the free option, you will get what you pay for.

You mean instead of going to private school? The DC area has some of the best public schools in the country.

I hope you are joking because what is described by OP is the norm here. Did you not know what public school here is?

[Anonymous]

I think the number of acronyms FAPE LRE DEI IDEA works against us trying to fix this situation, because everyone thinks it’s not worth fixing each one thing because there are several others. Nobody has ownership over it. But it seems that all of them need to be fixed.