Having Kids Is Overrated and Most People Have No Idea Until It’s Way Too Late

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are no guarantees with children and no way to know ahead of time what is in store for you. We are still at the beginning of our parenting journey with a 5 yo and it is sometimes exhausting but also often joyful. I have also learned a lot so far from being a parent. My DH and I often talk about how these are the best years - we are truly enjoying them. It certainly will be nice when DD is more independent but we recognize we'll miss this stage.

I think the myth that OP has identified is that once you are past the little kid stage it is easy. My parents are still struggling with my failure to launch sibling. She finally has a job at age 30 but still lives at home. My DH has a reasonably close relationship with his parents but there is a lot of annoyance and frustration on both sides. Friends with adult children are delaying retirement because they want to make sure their kids can sustain themselves financially. That being said, I think the happiest I've seen anyone is my parents and in laws with their first grandchild. There is a reason many parents annoyingly pressure their kids to have children. They shouldn't do it, but it is totally in their interest because of the sheer joy grandchildren bring.to a person.

I think one factor that can help (but again no guarantees) is sticking with one child. Studies show women with one kid are happier than those with zero or multiple children, and that only children have better relationships with their parents (on average, again, no guarantees). It also takes away a lot of financial pressure.

Anecdotally I am close with two only children, neither of whom liked growing up that way. They both felt smothered. But neither of their parents had only children by choice, so perhaps it’s different in families where it is a conscious choice. Either way, neither of these friends wanted or chose to stop at one 1 kid when it came time to start their own families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I strongly dislike parenting and motherhood and feel like an outlier.

I miss my hobbies, lazy weekends, no limitations career wise, carefree luxury travel and my former stomach and boobs.

But I also admit that it would be strange to not have a family and only grow old with my husband. I think life would get boring and I would feel like I’m missing something.

In my opinion the childfree life is superior until about 45 and then sh*t starts to get real. I have noticed this in childless couples. There’s also the problem that it gets more difficult to drink alcohol as you age and it would be weird to have so much free time and not be able to drink often.

I’ve also noticed that childfree women at work are very into their career and I can tell it’s one of the most important things to them. Which is fine but after having kids it’s definitely lower on my list and their obsession with work seems rather immature.

Ha this one makes me laugh because I don't agree with the first statement -- while there are things about motherhood I really dislike I actually really like being a mom and am glad I did it.

But otherwise I totally agree with everything here both good and bad. Even the thing about alcohol.

You just hit middle age and whether you have kids or not there's this feeling of "now what" but if you have kids at least you have something to answer that with. Kids can give your life a little shape. Freedom is awesome but there is a point at which being able to do whatever you want starts to feel meaningless. I think that's kind of why we had kids in the first place -- we were starting to feel bored with having the freedom to do whatever we wanted with our time and we wanted a bigger challenged and to enter the next phase of life.

OP here. But then your kids get older and they don’t need you or even necessarily like you. But you still love them. And it all still feels pretty meaningless. And you are like now what?

I’m at a snapshot in time. And maybe my feelings will change. I’m not sure my mom is glad she had me. She loves me but I constantly hear how disappointed she is in various ways. I don’t think I add very much to her life. I also have a child who is kind of on the spectrum…another little surprise life throws…so their love doesn’t necessarily look like what I thought love would look like and probably never will. It got worse as they got older. They were more outwardly loving when they were little.

I don’t know. I’m not really trying to convince anyone of anything…just reflecting on my own choices. Should have chosen a better title. I think I was still so young, even at 30, which sounds dumb because 30 year olds should be more mature…but I don’t think I could see then the pain I’d caused my own mother through the years or the way how she had hurt me had messed me up. And I just mean in the sort of typical dysfunctional family kinds of ways. Nothing crazy. I was so focused on just having a healthy baby and then all the little milestones. Then you turn around and they are leaving and it’s sort of like why did I do all of this? Also makes you aware of how old you are and how time has passed and you can’t go back. It’s all pretty trite stereotypical stuff, I guess.

But that’s what happens when you have an older child. It’s a good thing! They should be older and independent and not “need you” as much.

I’m not saying this to be mean but I think you could benefit from therapy. Just someone to talk through these feelings.

OP. Why is it a good thing for ME? I know it’s good for them. I mean not the being not so nice to me part—but hopefully that gets better. The spectrum stuff doesn’t help.

I guess it means I did a good job and unselfishly I agree with you. But that’s about them. Like I can say yay me for raising a kid who got into a good college and is going away. And I feel that. Of course I want their happiness. And I recognize that if they struggled with that it would be bad. I’m not saying like…wahhh it’s all about me. But the part that IS about me IS about me. And that part really sucks!

Basically as a kid the time you spend with your parents is all the beginning of your life until you start your “real” life. But half of my adult life has been being a parent. Then becoming independent and leaving is an end and there is no replacement unless you’re one of those people who harp on their kids to give them grandchildren (which is pretty unlikely for me and I would never pressure my kid that way).

I guess that’s part of my point. I’m supposed to be glad they’re leaving me? And pulling away? I’m glad they are not struggling with that because I love them. But again….not something I really started thinking about until a few years ago. And even then it was very theoretical until recently when I’m like damn…I’m going to have to get a dog.

OP I don't really get it. On one hand it seems like you don't find parenthood very fulfilling / it's "overrated." But now you also feel empty bc your kid is leaving home. If the kid part wasn't that great, why would you feel this way now? I guess I don't understand what you are saying or warning people about really.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are no guarantees with children and no way to know ahead of time what is in store for you. We are still at the beginning of our parenting journey with a 5 yo and it is sometimes exhausting but also often joyful. I have also learned a lot so far from being a parent. My DH and I often talk about how these are the best years - we are truly enjoying them. It certainly will be nice when DD is more independent but we recognize we'll miss this stage.

I think the myth that OP has identified is that once you are past the little kid stage it is easy. My parents are still struggling with my failure to launch sibling. She finally has a job at age 30 but still lives at home. My DH has a reasonably close relationship with his parents but there is a lot of annoyance and frustration on both sides. Friends with adult children are delaying retirement because they want to make sure their kids can sustain themselves financially. That being said, I think the happiest I've seen anyone is my parents and in laws with their first grandchild. There is a reason many parents annoyingly pressure their kids to have children. They shouldn't do it, but it is totally in their interest because of the sheer joy grandchildren bring.to a person.

I think one factor that can help (but again no guarantees) is sticking with one child. Studies show women with one kid are happier than those with zero or multiple children, and that only children have better relationships with their parents (on average, again, no guarantees). It also takes away a lot of financial pressure.

Anecdotally I am close with two only children, neither of whom liked growing up that way. They both felt smothered. But neither of their parents had only children by choice, so perhaps it’s different in families where it is a conscious choice. Either way, neither of these friends wanted or chose to stop at one 1 kid when it came time to start their own families.

Plenty of only children themselves choose to have only children.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/singletons/201910/growing-up-without-siblings-adult-only-children-speak-out

I have a sibling and feel a little sad that DD can't have one (we could have made it happen, now it's too late for a bio sibling). But one child is what is right for our family. We would not do well with two.

One of the worst trends I see in parenting today is this impulse to try and optimize everything from breastfeeding to child spacing to child care to red shirting. Parents' personal preferences hold little weight. This approach neglects the fact that having happy parents is really important for kids. My mom was not happy and that affected me deeply. I feel strongly that parents should base their decision about how many children to have on what is best for their family, not speculation about what is "optimal" for children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I see so many discussions about whether it’s worth having kids or not. I’m about to be an empty nester, and I’m also friends with some much younger people who are on the verge of having children. And I feel like when people talk about the pros and cons of children they always talk about the inconveniences and joys of the younger years.

But the reality is that those years go by quickly. And then you’re left being the parent to an adult—who you hope doesn’t hate you and you have a good relationship with. But god knows I know plenty of people who don’t have amazing relationships as adults with their parents.

I look at some of these younger people and I never say it but sometimes I really want to ask them to think if it’s worth it. Those early hard years. And then those magical good years in between when they think you’re the best in the world. But then the teenage years when there’s so much stress about their futures and you’re just an idiot half the time.

But then also beyond that. Being an almost 50 year old with 80 year old parents. Do I bring my mom joy? Half the time she’s mad at me for something or she pissed me off.

I don’t regret having my child. I love them. But I had absolutely NO idea what I was getting into. I could not think beyond those initial childhood years. But those years are nothing compared to all of the rest of the years you are a parent and managing and hoping to have a good relationship with an adult child. Sometimes I wonder—would I have done it if I’d known. But I know there was really no way to know. I’m not sure.

I bet a million bucks you are progressive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I strongly dislike parenting and motherhood and feel like an outlier.

I miss my hobbies, lazy weekends, no limitations career wise, carefree luxury travel and my former stomach and boobs.

But I also admit that it would be strange to not have a family and only grow old with my husband. I think life would get boring and I would feel like I’m missing something.

In my opinion the childfree life is superior until about 45 and then sh*t starts to get real. I have noticed this in childless couples. There’s also the problem that it gets more difficult to drink alcohol as you age and it would be weird to have so much free time and not be able to drink often.

I’ve also noticed that childfree women at work are very into their career and I can tell it’s one of the most important things to them. Which is fine but after having kids it’s definitely lower on my list and their obsession with work seems rather immature.

Ha this one makes me laugh because I don't agree with the first statement -- while there are things about motherhood I really dislike I actually really like being a mom and am glad I did it.

But otherwise I totally agree with everything here both good and bad. Even the thing about alcohol.

You just hit middle age and whether you have kids or not there's this feeling of "now what" but if you have kids at least you have something to answer that with. Kids can give your life a little shape. Freedom is awesome but there is a point at which being able to do whatever you want starts to feel meaningless. I think that's kind of why we had kids in the first place -- we were starting to feel bored with having the freedom to do whatever we wanted with our time and we wanted a bigger challenged and to enter the next phase of life.

OP here. But then your kids get older and they don’t need you or even necessarily like you. But you still love them. And it all still feels pretty meaningless. And you are like now what?

I’m at a snapshot in time. And maybe my feelings will change. I’m not sure my mom is glad she had me. She loves me but I constantly hear how disappointed she is in various ways. I don’t think I add very much to her life. I also have a child who is kind of on the spectrum…another little surprise life throws…so their love doesn’t necessarily look like what I thought love would look like and probably never will. It got worse as they got older. They were more outwardly loving when they were little.

I don’t know. I’m not really trying to convince anyone of anything…just reflecting on my own choices. Should have chosen a better title. I think I was still so young, even at 30, which sounds dumb because 30 year olds should be more mature…but I don’t think I could see then the pain I’d caused my own mother through the years or the way how she had hurt me had messed me up. And I just mean in the sort of typical dysfunctional family kinds of ways. Nothing crazy. I was so focused on just having a healthy baby and then all the little milestones. Then you turn around and they are leaving and it’s sort of like why did I do all of this? Also makes you aware of how old you are and how time has passed and you can’t go back. It’s all pretty trite stereotypical stuff, I guess.

But that’s what happens when you have an older child. It’s a good thing! They should be older and independent and not “need you” as much.

I’m not saying this to be mean but I think you could benefit from therapy. Just someone to talk through these feelings.

OP. Why is it a good thing for ME? I know it’s good for them. I mean not the being not so nice to me part—but hopefully that gets better. The spectrum stuff doesn’t help.

I guess it means I did a good job and unselfishly I agree with you. But that’s about them. Like I can say yay me for raising a kid who got into a good college and is going away. And I feel that. Of course I want their happiness. And I recognize that if they struggled with that it would be bad. I’m not saying like…wahhh it’s all about me. But the part that IS about me IS about me. And that part really sucks!

Basically as a kid the time you spend with your parents is all the beginning of your life until you start your “real” life. But half of my adult life has been being a parent. Then becoming independent and leaving is an end and there is no replacement unless you’re one of those people who harp on their kids to give them grandchildren (which is pretty unlikely for me and I would never pressure my kid that way).

I guess that’s part of my point. I’m supposed to be glad they’re leaving me? And pulling away? I’m glad they are not struggling with that because I love them. But again….not something I really started thinking about until a few years ago. And even then it was very theoretical until recently when I’m like damn…I’m going to have to get a dog.

OP I don't really get it. On one hand it seems like you don't find parenthood very fulfilling / it's "overrated." But now you also feel empty bc your kid is leaving home. If the kid part wasn't that great, why would you feel this way now? I guess I don't understand what you are saying or warning people about really.

Have you had kids leave for college and go through the “soiling the nest” processs? It’s like you’ll miss them but they act like such dicks you’re ready for them to go. You can have mixed feelings about it, I don’t know why that’s confusing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are no guarantees with children and no way to know ahead of time what is in store for you. We are still at the beginning of our parenting journey with a 5 yo and it is sometimes exhausting but also often joyful. I have also learned a lot so far from being a parent. My DH and I often talk about how these are the best years - we are truly enjoying them. It certainly will be nice when DD is more independent but we recognize we'll miss this stage.

I think the myth that OP has identified is that once you are past the little kid stage it is easy. My parents are still struggling with my failure to launch sibling. She finally has a job at age 30 but still lives at home. My DH has a reasonably close relationship with his parents but there is a lot of annoyance and frustration on both sides. Friends with adult children are delaying retirement because they want to make sure their kids can sustain themselves financially. That being said, I think the happiest I've seen anyone is my parents and in laws with their first grandchild. There is a reason many parents annoyingly pressure their kids to have children. They shouldn't do it, but it is totally in their interest because of the sheer joy grandchildren bring.to a person.

I think one factor that can help (but again no guarantees) is sticking with one child. Studies show women with one kid are happier than those with zero or multiple children, and that only children have better relationships with their parents (on average, again, no guarantees). It also takes away a lot of financial pressure.

Anecdotally I am close with two only children, neither of whom liked growing up that way. They both felt smothered. But neither of their parents had only children by choice, so perhaps it’s different in families where it is a conscious choice. Either way, neither of these friends wanted or chose to stop at one 1 kid when it came time to start their own families.

Plenty of only children themselves choose to have only children.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/singletons/201910/growing-up-without-siblings-adult-only-children-speak-out

I have a sibling and feel a little sad that DD can't have one (we could have made it happen, now it's too late for a bio sibling). But one child is what is right for our family. We would not do well with two.

One of the worst trends I see in parenting today is this impulse to try and optimize everything from breastfeeding to child spacing to child care to red shirting. Parents' personal preferences hold little weight. This approach neglects the fact that having happy parents is really important for kids. My mom was not happy and that affected me deeply. I feel strongly that parents should base their decision about how many children to have on what is best for their family, not speculation about what is "optimal" for children.

Pp here. 100%! Parents should have the number of kids they want to have and can responsibly raise, whether that’s 1, 3, or whatever.

But to Ops post… having kids is not ovwrrated, *if you want them.* I am so glad I have kids. And one of my kids has special needs, so it’s not like we just have it easy.

[Anonymous]

[url]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LMAO- Having kids is overrated? That’s hilarious if no one had kids the entire human race would become extinct.

I don’t know if overrated is the word but I can say that I expected there to be a much higher correlation between the work I put into parenting and the end results. Before having kids I had aced every project I was ever assigned to. Lose weight? Learn Chinese? Whatever the project I worked out a system and put my nose to the grindstone, woke up early, whatever. But now that my kids are late twenties I realize the limits to how much you can influence another person with their own interests, desires etc. Looking around now it seems almost random. Lazy parents with great kids, parents who worked really hard and still weren’t able to shield their kids from problems etc. So there’s that.

I also expected to be better at parenting than I actually turned out to be. Some of that was undiagnosed and untreated anxiety that helped suck the joy out of parenting and kept me from being fun. I wish I had gotten more therapy sooner and dealt with more of my own stuff before having kids. But that biological clock kind of ensures that you start this project before you are ready or even understand the assignment.

I also thought I would have more close girlfriends and wouldn’t feel so at sea and alone as I made decisions for my family. Didn’t expect people to be so weirdly competitive and not to share information. I look back now and I am like “wow, that was hard!” Not coming from a functional family also made it much harder.

Sounds like the problem is treating having a family as a project. It’s something you do for the experience more than the end result.

[Anonymous]

In response to the posts decrying only children - I feel compelled to point out that for many, many children a sibling is their first abuser, bullying tormenter, even rapist.

Siblings can be the worst thing to happen to a child, there are many, many adults who have zero relationship with adult siblings.

All is not Norman Rockwell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I strongly dislike parenting and motherhood and feel like an outlier.

I miss my hobbies, lazy weekends, no limitations career wise, carefree luxury travel and my former stomach and boobs.

But I also admit that it would be strange to not have a family and only grow old with my husband. I think life would get boring and I would feel like I’m missing something.

In my opinion the childfree life is superior until about 45 and then sh*t starts to get real. I have noticed this in childless couples. There’s also the problem that it gets more difficult to drink alcohol as you age and it would be weird to have so much free time and not be able to drink often.

I’ve also noticed that childfree women at work are very into their career and I can tell it’s one of the most important things to them. Which is fine but after having kids it’s definitely lower on my list and their obsession with work seems rather immature.

I so completely agree. For young couples yes, they look so relaxed and happy in the pre-kids years and I think we all remember that as carefree bliss.

But the 45 comment really jumped out at me. I think there is an age beyond which the tables turn and I truly don't think my friends/couples without kids at that age are happier. Our youth is gone so it's nice to be in another chapter and that's the focus. Some people seem to have a lot of time on your hands and self-focus in a way that can become unhealthy. And yes "sandwich" period but at least the kid part can be hopeful positive unlike other aging and caregiving.

Re careers I think the small percentage of people with truly meaningful careers that are also very busy are an exception to this - they don't have the free time to be self-indulgent, much like people with kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In response to the posts decrying only children - I feel compelled to point out that for many, many children a sibling is their first abuser, bullying tormenter, even rapist.

Siblings can be the worst thing to happen to a child, there are many, many adults who have zero relationship with adult siblings.

All is not Norman Rockwell.

That’s kind of a twisted take. Sure, in sheer number, that might be true, but as an overall percentage it’s fairly low and is far from the norm. It’s tragic, but also an outlier - like risk of severe side effect from a typically well tolerated medication.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LMAO- Having kids is overrated? That’s hilarious if no one had kids the entire human race would become extinct.

I don’t know if overrated is the word but I can say that I expected there to be a much higher correlation between the work I put into parenting and the end results. Before having kids I had aced every project I was ever assigned to. Lose weight? Learn Chinese? Whatever the project I worked out a system and put my nose to the grindstone, woke up early, whatever. But now that my kids are late twenties I realize the limits to how much you can influence another person with their own interests, desires etc. Looking around now it seems almost random. Lazy parents with great kids, parents who worked really hard and still weren’t able to shield their kids from problems etc. So there’s that.

I also expected to be better at parenting than I actually turned out to be. Some of that was undiagnosed and untreated anxiety that helped suck the joy out of parenting and kept me from being fun. I wish I had gotten more therapy sooner and dealt with more of my own stuff before having kids. But that biological clock kind of ensures that you start this project before you are ready or even understand the assignment.

I also thought I would have more close girlfriends and wouldn’t feel so at sea and alone as I made decisions for my family. Didn’t expect people to be so weirdly competitive and not to share information. I look back now and I am like “wow, that was hard!” Not coming from a functional family also made it much harder.

Wow, it’s almost as if you learned something really important about human relationships. Sounds worth it to me!

But they didn't because they discovered this fundamental truth -- that you cannot control someone else or shape another human into what you want them to be -- but instead of feeling how profound that is the PP is mad because that was their goal and they failed.

I actually think this is at the heart of dissatisfaction with parenting. And I say that as someone who sometimes feels that pull of wanting to "shape" my child into the image of what I hope she will be. But every time I try to go down that route my kid pushes back and and upends that. At first I feel upset or disappointed and then I take a step back and realize: it's awesome. She's her own person and she's not living her life for me. She's not a doll or a computer game. She's a human being with her own ideas about who she is and what she wants to do and be and the joy in being her parent is that I get a front row seat to all that and can be the person who helps and supports her as she becomes that person. Lucky me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In response to the posts decrying only children - I feel compelled to point out that for many, many children a sibling is their first abuser, bullying tormenter, even rapist.

Siblings can be the worst thing to happen to a child, there are many, many adults who have zero relationship with adult siblings.

All is not Norman Rockwell.

That’s kind of a twisted take. Sure, in sheer number, that might be true, but as an overall percentage it’s fairly low and is far from the norm. It’s tragic, but also an outlier - like risk of severe side effect from a typically well tolerated medication.

I think more common is like me, we all think we had a great childhood but we're like polite colleagues happy to catch up at conferences (holidays). We'd have each other's backs if push came to shove, but there are enough personality differences we wouldn't choose each other as friends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I see so many discussions about whether it’s worth having kids or not. I’m about to be an empty nester, and I’m also friends with some much younger people who are on the verge of having children. And I feel like when people talk about the pros and cons of children they always talk about the inconveniences and joys of the younger years.

But the reality is that those years go by quickly. And then you’re left being the parent to an adult—who you hope doesn’t hate you and you have a good relationship with. But god knows I know plenty of people who don’t have amazing relationships as adults with their parents.

I look at some of these younger people and I never say it but sometimes I really want to ask them to think if it’s worth it. Those early hard years. And then those magical good years in between when they think you’re the best in the world. But then the teenage years when there’s so much stress about their futures and you’re just an idiot half the time.

But then also beyond that. Being an almost 50 year old with 80 year old parents. Do I bring my mom joy? Half the time she’s mad at me for something or she pissed me off.

I don’t regret having my child. I love them. But I had absolutely NO idea what I was getting into. I could not think beyond those initial childhood years. But those years are nothing compared to all of the rest of the years you are a parent and managing and hoping to have a good relationship with an adult child. Sometimes I wonder—would I have done it if I’d known. But I know there was really no way to know. I’m not sure.

Everything goes by quickly. It feels like it was only yesterday that I was in high school!

You are assuming that you would feel better about your life if you didn't have a child. But you have no idea what that would have looked like. The only thing that is certain is that you would be older, and, eventually, sicker, and less interesting and productive.

It used to be case that most people were unhappiest around 50. This is where you seem to be, and I am as well (my kids are younger). I feel sadness most of the days though I still have kids who love my unconditionally. There is no going to be another high to my life, I don't think. But this is aging, not kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In response to the posts decrying only children - I feel compelled to point out that for many, many children a sibling is their first abuser, bullying tormenter, even rapist.

Siblings can be the worst thing to happen to a child, there are many, many adults who have zero relationship with adult siblings.

All is not Norman Rockwell.

That’s kind of a twisted take. Sure, in sheer number, that might be true, but as an overall percentage it’s fairly low and is far from the norm. It’s tragic, but also an outlier - like risk of severe side effect from a typically well tolerated medication.

I think more common is like me, we all think we had a great childhood but we're like polite colleagues happy to catch up at conferences (holidays). We'd have each other's backs if push came to shove, but there are enough personality differences we wouldn't choose each other as friends.

My sibling and I are like that, and occasionally push has come to shove and I'm glad to have him. Plus my own kids seem much closer (for now at least).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LMAO- Having kids is overrated? That’s hilarious if no one had kids the entire human race would become extinct.

I don’t know if overrated is the word but I can say that I expected there to be a much higher correlation between the work I put into parenting and the end results. Before having kids I had aced every project I was ever assigned to. Lose weight? Learn Chinese? Whatever the project I worked out a system and put my nose to the grindstone, woke up early, whatever. But now that my kids are late twenties I realize the limits to how much you can influence another person with their own interests, desires etc. Looking around now it seems almost random. Lazy parents with great kids, parents who worked really hard and still weren’t able to shield their kids from problems etc. So there’s that.

I also expected to be better at parenting than I actually turned out to be. Some of that was undiagnosed and untreated anxiety that helped suck the joy out of parenting and kept me from being fun. I wish I had gotten more therapy sooner and dealt with more of my own stuff before having kids. But that biological clock kind of ensures that you start this project before you are ready or even understand the assignment.

I also thought I would have more close girlfriends and wouldn’t feel so at sea and alone as I made decisions for my family. Didn’t expect people to be so weirdly competitive and not to share information. I look back now and I am like “wow, that was hard!” Not coming from a functional family also made it much harder.

Wow, it’s almost as if you learned something really important about human relationships. Sounds worth it to me!

But they didn't because they discovered this fundamental truth -- that you cannot control someone else or shape another human into what you want them to be -- but instead of feeling how profound that is the PP is mad because that was their goal and they failed.

I actually think this is at the heart of dissatisfaction with parenting. And I say that as someone who sometimes feels that pull of wanting to "shape" my child into the image of what I hope she will be. But every time I try to go down that route my kid pushes back and and upends that. At first I feel upset or disappointed and then I take a step back and realize: it's awesome. She's her own person and she's not living her life for me. She's not a doll or a computer game. She's a human being with her own ideas about who she is and what she wants to do and be and the joy in being her parent is that I get a front row seat to all that and can be the person who helps and supports her as she becomes that person. Lucky me.

You sound as though you have a great deal of maturity and wisdom. I wonder how old you are and how old your kids are. I am the “project” commenter and I was definitely not wise enough in my thirties to think as you do and neither was my husband. If I could have waited til my fifties to have kids like men sometimes do, I probably would have been much mellower and appreciative of my kids uniqueness but biologically that’s not really an option for most women.