Lottery data with June offer numbers is up

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:yes, if you already have a sibling at Cooper or live lots closer (Brookland/Edgewood etc.), you might rank it over 2nd street. some ppl definitely fit these categories.

Definitely. Cooper is walkable for us, which is a huge deal when having also a kid in elementary and a kid in daycare.

Sure, there are several reasons why you might prefer Cooper (siblings, location, language) but people are responding to the PP who said that people were ranking Cooper first because they didn't think they had a shot at 2nd. People aren't saying that others should necessarily prefer 2nd over Cooper or that it's bad to rank Cooper higher. People are saying that you shouldn't rank Cooper higher based on your chances of getting a spot at 2nd. That's the part that is wrong.

Some people just don't grasp how the lottery works, it's true. Especially if they've been happy with their elementary school and haven't lotteried since PK3.

Unfortunate truth. It also happens with some choosing not to lottery at 5th grade because they are happy with ES and thinking they'll just do it for 6th.

I just lived this (have a 4th grader at a good EOTP school with a bad middle) and while I may have considered staying when I was young and foolish, it was not at all an option. Our entire cohort played the lottery. Middle school is too important and the chances of getting a better path in 5th is so much higher than waiting for 6th (bc of Latin, Basis, ITS and all of the deal and Hardy (and maybe others depending on your standards)) feeders.

We had a medium number and got a placement at a good charter and an offer from a Hardy feeder.

I find this topic of conversation so fascinating - both as a former educator and a parent of current upper elementary and middle schoolers. There are so many truths and angles to this discussion, but also a lot of fear, assumptions, and group-think that play in - it is almost impossible to have a completely objective view of the middle school conversation. Added to that that different kids do well in smaller/bigger programs, sports/clubs/theatre mean more to some families than others, and it quickly turns into a web that is hard to navigate.
I will add that a lot of the families I know who are making huge changes after 4th - either pulling their kids from school, or moving their whole family -- are doing so based on reputations from this site (or similar), things online, or bc of friends they know that have done the same. It will be interesting in the next few years as increasing numbers of families finish 8th grade at the DCPS middle schools that have formerly been written off as 'horrible' or 'not an option'. Elementary families will then have real voices to listen to, often with siblings still at the elementary school - that will describe how the middle school experience actually was. And maybe in the end of the day some of the assumptions will be confirmed, but what I am starting to see as we enter these years as that there are layers/groups of kids, activities, classes, and experiences at every school. Which can be said for all middle schools - if you read this forum both public, private, MD, and VA - middle and high school get tricky no matter where you are.

Im the PP you are referring to, and for me that choice was Cardozo. It was not a fear or assumption based decision.

NP and I would never send my kid to Cardozo so you absolutely did not have a choice.

+1

[Anonymous]

Overall, PARCC scores at BASIS are extremely high but even if you just look at poor kids at the school the numbers are still really high. Note the below numbers are just for “economically disadvantaged” kids—the overall BASIS numbers are much higher.

For SY 22-23, at BASIS DC, there were 430 kids in middle school and 233 in high school. Overall, the at-risk percentage was 7%. PARCC scores at BASIS that year for “economically disadvantaged” students were a follows:

ELA
55.6% 4+
72.2 3+

Math
27.8% 4+
58.3% 3+

Drilling down for middle school and high school, you get the following for economically disadvantaged:

Middle school (28 economically disadvantaged)

ELA
46.42% 4+
64.28% 3+

Math
25.00% 4+
53.57% 3+

High school (8 economically disadvantaged):

N/A (number of students too low for percentages)

Just for comparison, take a look at how economically disadvantaged kids fared at Latin:

Middle school (34 economically disadvantaged—just a few more than BASIS DC):

ELA
17.64% 4+
52.94% 3+

Math
8.82% 4+
26.47% 3+

Accordingly, here is the bottom line: BASIS DC is a very rigorous school and not for everyone. But it is false to state that a poor kid can’t excel at BASIS and, at least based on test results, BASIS DC does a better job than its public school peers in DC at educating economically disadvantaged kids.

[Anonymous]

How do you know how many kids are poor at basis? Where is the data on that? Poor and and at risk are not the same thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How do you know how many kids are poor at basis? Where is the data on that? Poor and and at risk are not the same thing.

All sufficiently poor kids are at risk per the statutory definition of at risk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:yes, if you already have a sibling at Cooper or live lots closer (Brookland/Edgewood etc.), you might rank it over 2nd street. some ppl definitely fit these categories.

Definitely. Cooper is walkable for us, which is a huge deal when having also a kid in elementary and a kid in daycare.

Sure, there are several reasons why you might prefer Cooper (siblings, location, language) but people are responding to the PP who said that people were ranking Cooper first because they didn't think they had a shot at 2nd. People aren't saying that others should necessarily prefer 2nd over Cooper or that it's bad to rank Cooper higher. People are saying that you shouldn't rank Cooper higher based on your chances of getting a spot at 2nd. That's the part that is wrong.

Some people just don't grasp how the lottery works, it's true. Especially if they've been happy with their elementary school and haven't lotteried since PK3.

Unfortunate truth. It also happens with some choosing not to lottery at 5th grade because they are happy with ES and thinking they'll just do it for 6th.

I just lived this (have a 4th grader at a good EOTP school with a bad middle) and while I may have considered staying when I was young and foolish, it was not at all an option. Our entire cohort played the lottery. Middle school is too important and the chances of getting a better path in 5th is so much higher than waiting for 6th (bc of Latin, Basis, ITS and all of the deal and Hardy (and maybe others depending on your standards)) feeders.

We had a medium number and got a placement at a good charter and an offer from a Hardy feeder.

I find this topic of conversation so fascinating - both as a former educator and a parent of current upper elementary and middle schoolers. There are so many truths and angles to this discussion, but also a lot of fear, assumptions, and group-think that play in - it is almost impossible to have a completely objective view of the middle school conversation. Added to that that different kids do well in smaller/bigger programs, sports/clubs/theatre mean more to some families than others, and it quickly turns into a web that is hard to navigate.
I will add that a lot of the families I know who are making huge changes after 4th - either pulling their kids from school, or moving their whole family -- are doing so based on reputations from this site (or similar), things online, or bc of friends they know that have done the same. It will be interesting in the next few years as increasing numbers of families finish 8th grade at the DCPS middle schools that have formerly been written off as 'horrible' or 'not an option'. Elementary families will then have real voices to listen to, often with siblings still at the elementary school - that will describe how the middle school experience actually was. And maybe in the end of the day some of the assumptions will be confirmed, but what I am starting to see as we enter these years as that there are layers/groups of kids, activities, classes, and experiences at every school. Which can be said for all middle schools - if you read this forum both public, private, MD, and VA - middle and high school get tricky no matter where you are.

Stop trying to make Elliot Hine a thing. It's never going to be a good school.

Also worth noting - 10 years ago when many of us tween age parents started ECE/Elementary, there was the same 'never touch that school' reputation to many of the elementary schools parents are coming on here happy with and sad to leave in 4th/5th grade now. While elementary and middle are different beasts, I think keeping perspective re: all the changes that can happen in a school community in a short amount of time is a good thing. Which brings this back to the point of this thread - that some of these schools letting kids in and having short wait lists were 100+ waitlists/impossible to get into in the not to distant past.

So the schools are getting worse, not better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:yes, if you already have a sibling at Cooper or live lots closer (Brookland/Edgewood etc.), you might rank it over 2nd street. some ppl definitely fit these categories.

Definitely. Cooper is walkable for us, which is a huge deal when having also a kid in elementary and a kid in daycare.

Sure, there are several reasons why you might prefer Cooper (siblings, location, language) but people are responding to the PP who said that people were ranking Cooper first because they didn't think they had a shot at 2nd. People aren't saying that others should necessarily prefer 2nd over Cooper or that it's bad to rank Cooper higher. People are saying that you shouldn't rank Cooper higher based on your chances of getting a spot at 2nd. That's the part that is wrong.

Some people just don't grasp how the lottery works, it's true. Especially if they've been happy with their elementary school and haven't lotteried since PK3.

Unfortunate truth. It also happens with some choosing not to lottery at 5th grade because they are happy with ES and thinking they'll just do it for 6th.

I just lived this (have a 4th grader at a good EOTP school with a bad middle) and while I may have considered staying when I was young and foolish, it was not at all an option. Our entire cohort played the lottery. Middle school is too important and the chances of getting a better path in 5th is so much higher than waiting for 6th (bc of Latin, Basis, ITS and all of the deal and Hardy (and maybe others depending on your standards)) feeders.

We had a medium number and got a placement at a good charter and an offer from a Hardy feeder.

you’re commuting from the Hill to Hardy? Sounds miserable. I’d rather move.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:EA at BASIS is going to be a disaster.

You said the quiet part out loud. Why do you assume that kids who are economically disadvantaged are dumb and/or can't apply themselves? Why do you assume they don't have or can't develop executive functioning? Some of these 10 and 11 year old kids have already dealt with more sh*t in their lives than you will ever know and they are still in the game fighting to succeed. EA preferences are designed precisely for this reason; to ensure kids who more than many others need a solid educational footing have access.

DP. My understanding of the Basis model is that it would take a lot of support at home to catch up academically and pass the tests. If the kids are coming in behind and Basis keeps its “up or out” approach, we’re gonna see a disproportionate number of EA kids dropping out.

Your understanding is wrong. The kids at the top of the class don't have parents all up in their stuff. They tend to be independent, self-starting learners. Kids who grow up in unstable environments and grow up quickly might tend to exhibit high level executive functioning beyond coddled peers whose parents sit next to them and do the work with them.

BASIS is a lottery school. A kid coming in through EA is not going to magically be at the top of the class. The myth of the miraculously prepared tough-luck kid is a myth.

But someone went through the lottery process. That absolutely takes parental or family involvement. As a teacher I’ve taught many bright kids who excelled and would be EA. This idea that parents aren’t involved or care about their kids education if they are eligible for EA is gross.

You clearly have no idea the sheer number of hours it takes to help a kid be successful at BASIS in the first couple years. I’m sure you saw kids be “successful” at their garbage DCPS. That’s absolutely not the same as BASIS.

What exactly are you doing and why does it take so long?

Most of the kids who are successful at BASIS have two parent households, with parents who are staying on top of their grades, perhaps helping them study, and providing extra support where needed, etc. Many students have tutors (tutoring is widespread at BASIS).

The idea that a typical EA kid, who is homeless or thrown into the foster care system or whose families are struggling enough to qualify for TANF or SNAP, is going to be successful at a school like BASIS is a feel-good fantasy.

A lot of BASIS tutoring happens after school, in the BASIS building. If a child can get themselves to and from the school, then they should be able to access the tutoring fairly easily on their own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:yes, if you already have a sibling at Cooper or live lots closer (Brookland/Edgewood etc.), you might rank it over 2nd street. some ppl definitely fit these categories.

Definitely. Cooper is walkable for us, which is a huge deal when having also a kid in elementary and a kid in daycare.

Sure, there are several reasons why you might prefer Cooper (siblings, location, language) but people are responding to the PP who said that people were ranking Cooper first because they didn't think they had a shot at 2nd. People aren't saying that others should necessarily prefer 2nd over Cooper or that it's bad to rank Cooper higher. People are saying that you shouldn't rank Cooper higher based on your chances of getting a spot at 2nd. That's the part that is wrong.

Some people just don't grasp how the lottery works, it's true. Especially if they've been happy with their elementary school and haven't lotteried since PK3.

Unfortunate truth. It also happens with some choosing not to lottery at 5th grade because they are happy with ES and thinking they'll just do it for 6th.

I just lived this (have a 4th grader at a good EOTP school with a bad middle) and while I may have considered staying when I was young and foolish, it was not at all an option. Our entire cohort played the lottery. Middle school is too important and the chances of getting a better path in 5th is so much higher than waiting for 6th (bc of Latin, Basis, ITS and all of the deal and Hardy (and maybe others depending on your standards)) feeders.

We had a medium number and got a placement at a good charter and an offer from a Hardy feeder.

I find this topic of conversation so fascinating - both as a former educator and a parent of current upper elementary and middle schoolers. There are so many truths and angles to this discussion, but also a lot of fear, assumptions, and group-think that play in - it is almost impossible to have a completely objective view of the middle school conversation. Added to that that different kids do well in smaller/bigger programs, sports/clubs/theatre mean more to some families than others, and it quickly turns into a web that is hard to navigate.
I will add that a lot of the families I know who are making huge changes after 4th - either pulling their kids from school, or moving their whole family -- are doing so based on reputations from this site (or similar), things online, or bc of friends they know that have done the same. It will be interesting in the next few years as increasing numbers of families finish 8th grade at the DCPS middle schools that have formerly been written off as 'horrible' or 'not an option'. Elementary families will then have real voices to listen to, often with siblings still at the elementary school - that will describe how the middle school experience actually was. And maybe in the end of the day some of the assumptions will be confirmed, but what I am starting to see as we enter these years as that there are layers/groups of kids, activities, classes, and experiences at every school. Which can be said for all middle schools - if you read this forum both public, private, MD, and VA - middle and high school get tricky no matter where you are.

Stop trying to make Elliot Hine a thing. It's never going to be a good school.

what’s wrong with you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:yes, if you already have a sibling at Cooper or live lots closer (Brookland/Edgewood etc.), you might rank it over 2nd street. some ppl definitely fit these categories.

Definitely. Cooper is walkable for us, which is a huge deal when having also a kid in elementary and a kid in daycare.

Sure, there are several reasons why you might prefer Cooper (siblings, location, language) but people are responding to the PP who said that people were ranking Cooper first because they didn't think they had a shot at 2nd. People aren't saying that others should necessarily prefer 2nd over Cooper or that it's bad to rank Cooper higher. People are saying that you shouldn't rank Cooper higher based on your chances of getting a spot at 2nd. That's the part that is wrong.

Some people just don't grasp how the lottery works, it's true. Especially if they've been happy with their elementary school and haven't lotteried since PK3.

Unfortunate truth. It also happens with some choosing not to lottery at 5th grade because they are happy with ES and thinking they'll just do it for 6th.

I just lived this (have a 4th grader at a good EOTP school with a bad middle) and while I may have considered staying when I was young and foolish, it was not at all an option. Our entire cohort played the lottery. Middle school is too important and the chances of getting a better path in 5th is so much higher than waiting for 6th (bc of Latin, Basis, ITS and all of the deal and Hardy (and maybe others depending on your standards)) feeders.

We had a medium number and got a placement at a good charter and an offer from a Hardy feeder.

I find this topic of conversation so fascinating - both as a former educator and a parent of current upper elementary and middle schoolers. There are so many truths and angles to this discussion, but also a lot of fear, assumptions, and group-think that play in - it is almost impossible to have a completely objective view of the middle school conversation. Added to that that different kids do well in smaller/bigger programs, sports/clubs/theatre mean more to some families than others, and it quickly turns into a web that is hard to navigate.
I will add that a lot of the families I know who are making huge changes after 4th - either pulling their kids from school, or moving their whole family -- are doing so based on reputations from this site (or similar), things online, or bc of friends they know that have done the same. It will be interesting in the next few years as increasing numbers of families finish 8th grade at the DCPS middle schools that have formerly been written off as 'horrible' or 'not an option'. Elementary families will then have real voices to listen to, often with siblings still at the elementary school - that will describe how the middle school experience actually was. And maybe in the end of the day some of the assumptions will be confirmed, but what I am starting to see as we enter these years as that there are layers/groups of kids, activities, classes, and experiences at every school. Which can be said for all middle schools - if you read this forum both public, private, MD, and VA - middle and high school get tricky no matter where you are.

Stop trying to make Elliot Hine a thing. It's never going to be a good school.

Also worth noting - 10 years ago when many of us tween age parents started ECE/Elementary, there was the same 'never touch that school' reputation to many of the elementary schools parents are coming on here happy with and sad to leave in 4th/5th grade now. While elementary and middle are different beasts, I think keeping perspective re: all the changes that can happen in a school community in a short amount of time is a good thing. Which brings this back to the point of this thread - that some of these schools letting kids in and having short wait lists were 100+ waitlists/impossible to get into in the not to distant past.

Good point. The main thing is to not let hysteria about what is a good or bad school be your guide. Clearly a lot of this is about popularity contests.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Quick glance as a ward 4 parent; Takoma and Whittier not offering one spot so far for PK3 is remarkable.

Shepherd hasn't offered one waitlist spot in any grade.

Shepherd feeds to Deal and JR. Not the same as Whittier and Takoma. It is pretty remarkable those two schools didn’t offer a waitlist spot to any PK3 yet.

Not really. Lots of families these days use ECE spots at their IB or any other schools. The real differentiator is upper elementary and percentages of IB families that stay thru upper elementary thru 4th.

Ward 3 families need to stop saying this. We're an upper elementary family leaving our EOTP IB this year ONLY because of the middle school feed. I would LOVE if DCs could stay through fifth at our elementary, but when lottery gold strikes, you have to take it. I'm really sad to leave our school and DCs will be devastated when they find out, but the reality is that there are many nice elementary schools in this city that feed into very less nice middle and high schools, and middle class families that can't afford private have to play the lottery and take the opportunity when it comes.

You are leaving just as Pp said.

Don't be dense. There's a big difference between using your IB pre-K as free daycare and deciding to stay for first, second, third grade. The ONLY "real differentiator" at many EOTP schools is the middle school feeder pattern. There are plenty of schools in DC, if you're there in second and leaving in fourth, it's because you feel like you HAVE to, not because you want to.

Sure but you are not the majority. The data says it all and the overwhelming majority of higher SES IB families at these poorly performing EOTP schools are not staying at their IB schools past K/1st. There is a big exodus and by 2nd, it’s a few families. Just look at the makeup of your 2nd, 3rd grade classes compared to ECE.

The one exception is Capitol Hill schools where majority do stay thru 4th at least.

Can you provide a link to this data?

It doesn't really exist. Audited enrollment numbers will give number of students by grade, number of students by race, and number of students by at-risk designation, but it doesn't give at-risk/race by grade. You can kind of get a sense of the PK3-2nd and 3rd-5th split looking at PARCC data totals by at-risk/race, but at individual grade levels the data is often suppressed.

I think PP may have literally meant "look." Not really a great basis for making sweeping generalizations.

I think the PK3-2nd vs. PARCC grade demographics tells you quite a bit.

Not knowing the distribution within in those grade bands limits its practical utility.

For example, at our IB 3rd-5th is about 60% economically disadvantaged. But working around data suppression (not possible at all schools), the actual distribution is 47% in 3rd, 64% in 4th, and 73% in 5th.

Not really. If you want to know if there are high SES families which everyone knows is proxy for white in this town, just look at demographics.

20% at risk is the magic number. Anything above that and it’s going to affect academic performance in general so if you are 50% or 75%, you are way above that threshold.. Also, DC defines at risk in the extreme as homeless, SNAP, etc…. There are lots of lower, poor SES families who don’t fall in the at risk category.

What are you basing this 20% threshold on?

The list of EotP elementary schools that fit this criteria is very short: Ross, Brent, AppleTree LP, O-A, Stokes Brookland, Shepherd, LAMB, MV C8, SWS, DC Wildflower, Maury, YY, Peabody, LEARN, Lee Brookland, L-T, Bancroft.

There have been studies looking at the at risk percentages in a classroom and how it affects the performance of different groups of low and high performers. BTW FCPS also conducted their own study some years ago in their school system and also came up with 20%.

I mean … if you’re living some kind of optimization life seeking out maximum advantage and the exact percentage of at-risk kids as demonstrated by “studies” - go for it. Sounds like a kind of miserable way to parent. I always wonder why people like you haven’t upped and moved to the suburbs given all the anxiety about perfecting your child’s school down to the exact FARMS percentage that is most beneficial.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:yes, if you already have a sibling at Cooper or live lots closer (Brookland/Edgewood etc.), you might rank it over 2nd street. some ppl definitely fit these categories.

Definitely. Cooper is walkable for us, which is a huge deal when having also a kid in elementary and a kid in daycare.

Sure, there are several reasons why you might prefer Cooper (siblings, location, language) but people are responding to the PP who said that people were ranking Cooper first because they didn't think they had a shot at 2nd. People aren't saying that others should necessarily prefer 2nd over Cooper or that it's bad to rank Cooper higher. People are saying that you shouldn't rank Cooper higher based on your chances of getting a spot at 2nd. That's the part that is wrong.

Some people just don't grasp how the lottery works, it's true. Especially if they've been happy with their elementary school and haven't lotteried since PK3.

Unfortunate truth. It also happens with some choosing not to lottery at 5th grade because they are happy with ES and thinking they'll just do it for 6th.

I just lived this (have a 4th grader at a good EOTP school with a bad middle) and while I may have considered staying when I was young and foolish, it was not at all an option. Our entire cohort played the lottery. Middle school is too important and the chances of getting a better path in 5th is so much higher than waiting for 6th (bc of Latin, Basis, ITS and all of the deal and Hardy (and maybe others depending on your standards)) feeders.

We had a medium number and got a placement at a good charter and an offer from a Hardy feeder.

you’re commuting from the Hill to Hardy? Sounds miserable. I’d rather move.

Two assumptions, neither correct. Cheers to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:yes, if you already have a sibling at Cooper or live lots closer (Brookland/Edgewood etc.), you might rank it over 2nd street. some ppl definitely fit these categories.

Definitely. Cooper is walkable for us, which is a huge deal when having also a kid in elementary and a kid in daycare.

Sure, there are several reasons why you might prefer Cooper (siblings, location, language) but people are responding to the PP who said that people were ranking Cooper first because they didn't think they had a shot at 2nd. People aren't saying that others should necessarily prefer 2nd over Cooper or that it's bad to rank Cooper higher. People are saying that you shouldn't rank Cooper higher based on your chances of getting a spot at 2nd. That's the part that is wrong.

Some people just don't grasp how the lottery works, it's true. Especially if they've been happy with their elementary school and haven't lotteried since PK3.

Unfortunate truth. It also happens with some choosing not to lottery at 5th grade because they are happy with ES and thinking they'll just do it for 6th.

I just lived this (have a 4th grader at a good EOTP school with a bad middle) and while I may have considered staying when I was young and foolish, it was not at all an option. Our entire cohort played the lottery. Middle school is too important and the chances of getting a better path in 5th is so much higher than waiting for 6th (bc of Latin, Basis, ITS and all of the deal and Hardy (and maybe others depending on your standards)) feeders.

We had a medium number and got a placement at a good charter and an offer from a Hardy feeder.

I find this topic of conversation so fascinating - both as a former educator and a parent of current upper elementary and middle schoolers. There are so many truths and angles to this discussion, but also a lot of fear, assumptions, and group-think that play in - it is almost impossible to have a completely objective view of the middle school conversation. Added to that that different kids do well in smaller/bigger programs, sports/clubs/theatre mean more to some families than others, and it quickly turns into a web that is hard to navigate.
I will add that a lot of the families I know who are making huge changes after 4th - either pulling their kids from school, or moving their whole family -- are doing so based on reputations from this site (or similar), things online, or bc of friends they know that have done the same. It will be interesting in the next few years as increasing numbers of families finish 8th grade at the DCPS middle schools that have formerly been written off as 'horrible' or 'not an option'. Elementary families will then have real voices to listen to, often with siblings still at the elementary school - that will describe how the middle school experience actually was. And maybe in the end of the day some of the assumptions will be confirmed, but what I am starting to see as we enter these years as that there are layers/groups of kids, activities, classes, and experiences at every school. Which can be said for all middle schools - if you read this forum both public, private, MD, and VA - middle and high school get tricky no matter where you are.

Stop trying to make Elliot Hine a thing. It's never going to be a good school.

Also worth noting - 10 years ago when many of us tween age parents started ECE/Elementary, there was the same 'never touch that school' reputation to many of the elementary schools parents are coming on here happy with and sad to leave in 4th/5th grade now. While elementary and middle are different beasts, I think keeping perspective re: all the changes that can happen in a school community in a short amount of time is a good thing. Which brings this back to the point of this thread - that some of these schools letting kids in and having short wait lists were 100+ waitlists/impossible to get into in the not to distant past.

Good point. The main thing is to not let hysteria about what is a good or bad school be your guide. Clearly a lot of this is about popularity contests.

+1
I think that is the point, that interest in schools ebbs and flows, sometimes because of increased inbound enrollment, sometimes because a new school opens and people are excited about the model, but sometimes also interest declines because of specific leadership or behavior problems which we have seen talked about on this thread in recent years. And despite how this forum always ends up sounding, I think despite many people still making generalizations or assumptions, it seems there are more people willing to try schools they would not have been willing to try 10 years ago.
If you have paid attention to education/schools in the past 10+ years, many under enrolled schools closed under Rhee, tons of charters opened, and enrollment has increased at many public schools. Overall a good thing IMO, lot of good choices for kids, and slowly all the schools are getting renovated which helps as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Overall, PARCC scores at BASIS are extremely high but even if you just look at poor kids at the school the numbers are still really high. Note the below numbers are just for “economically disadvantaged” kids—the overall BASIS numbers are much higher.

For SY 22-23, at BASIS DC, there were 430 kids in middle school and 233 in high school. Overall, the at-risk percentage was 7%. PARCC scores at BASIS that year for “economically disadvantaged” students were a follows:

ELA
55.6% 4+
72.2 3+

Math
27.8% 4+
58.3% 3+

Drilling down for middle school and high school, you get the following for economically disadvantaged:

Middle school (28 economically disadvantaged)

ELA
46.42% 4+
64.28% 3+

Math
25.00% 4+
53.57% 3+

High school (8 economically disadvantaged):

N/A (number of students too low for percentages)

Just for comparison, take a look at how economically disadvantaged kids fared at Latin:

Middle school (34 economically disadvantaged—just a few more than BASIS DC):

ELA
17.64% 4+
52.94% 3+

Math
8.82% 4+
26.47% 3+

Accordingly, here is the bottom line: BASIS DC is a very rigorous school and not for everyone. But it is false to state that a poor kid can’t excel at BASIS and, at least based on test results, BASIS DC does a better job than its public school peers in DC at educating economically disadvantaged kids.

Now compare the at risk percentage in the middle school to the at risk percentage in the high school. I’ll wait.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:yes, if you already have a sibling at Cooper or live lots closer (Brookland/Edgewood etc.), you might rank it over 2nd street. some ppl definitely fit these categories.

Definitely. Cooper is walkable for us, which is a huge deal when having also a kid in elementary and a kid in daycare.

Sure, there are several reasons why you might prefer Cooper (siblings, location, language) but people are responding to the PP who said that people were ranking Cooper first because they didn't think they had a shot at 2nd. People aren't saying that others should necessarily prefer 2nd over Cooper or that it's bad to rank Cooper higher. People are saying that you shouldn't rank Cooper higher based on your chances of getting a spot at 2nd. That's the part that is wrong.

Some people just don't grasp how the lottery works, it's true. Especially if they've been happy with their elementary school and haven't lotteried since PK3.

Unfortunate truth. It also happens with some choosing not to lottery at 5th grade because they are happy with ES and thinking they'll just do it for 6th.

I just lived this (have a 4th grader at a good EOTP school with a bad middle) and while I may have considered staying when I was young and foolish, it was not at all an option. Our entire cohort played the lottery. Middle school is too important and the chances of getting a better path in 5th is so much higher than waiting for 6th (bc of Latin, Basis, ITS and all of the deal and Hardy (and maybe others depending on your standards)) feeders.

We had a medium number and got a placement at a good charter and an offer from a Hardy feeder.

I find this topic of conversation so fascinating - both as a former educator and a parent of current upper elementary and middle schoolers. There are so many truths and angles to this discussion, but also a lot of fear, assumptions, and group-think that play in - it is almost impossible to have a completely objective view of the middle school conversation. Added to that that different kids do well in smaller/bigger programs, sports/clubs/theatre mean more to some families than others, and it quickly turns into a web that is hard to navigate.
I will add that a lot of the families I know who are making huge changes after 4th - either pulling their kids from school, or moving their whole family -- are doing so based on reputations from this site (or similar), things online, or bc of friends they know that have done the same. It will be interesting in the next few years as increasing numbers of families finish 8th grade at the DCPS middle schools that have formerly been written off as 'horrible' or 'not an option'. Elementary families will then have real voices to listen to, often with siblings still at the elementary school - that will describe how the middle school experience actually was. And maybe in the end of the day some of the assumptions will be confirmed, but what I am starting to see as we enter these years as that there are layers/groups of kids, activities, classes, and experiences at every school. Which can be said for all middle schools - if you read this forum both public, private, MD, and VA - middle and high school get tricky no matter where you are.

Stop trying to make Elliot Hine a thing. It's never going to be a good school.

Also worth noting - 10 years ago when many of us tween age parents started ECE/Elementary, there was the same 'never touch that school' reputation to many of the elementary schools parents are coming on here happy with and sad to leave in 4th/5th grade now. While elementary and middle are different beasts, I think keeping perspective re: all the changes that can happen in a school community in a short amount of time is a good thing. Which brings this back to the point of this thread - that some of these schools letting kids in and having short wait lists were 100+ waitlists/impossible to get into in the not to distant past.

So the schools are getting worse, not better.

No. Some schools are getting worse, and some schools are getting better, and it isn't always what people expected. Also some schools are easier to get into because they've opened a second campus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:yes, if you already have a sibling at Cooper or live lots closer (Brookland/Edgewood etc.), you might rank it over 2nd street. some ppl definitely fit these categories.

Definitely. Cooper is walkable for us, which is a huge deal when having also a kid in elementary and a kid in daycare.

Sure, there are several reasons why you might prefer Cooper (siblings, location, language) but people are responding to the PP who said that people were ranking Cooper first because they didn't think they had a shot at 2nd. People aren't saying that others should necessarily prefer 2nd over Cooper or that it's bad to rank Cooper higher. People are saying that you shouldn't rank Cooper higher based on your chances of getting a spot at 2nd. That's the part that is wrong.

Some people just don't grasp how the lottery works, it's true. Especially if they've been happy with their elementary school and haven't lotteried since PK3.

Unfortunate truth. It also happens with some choosing not to lottery at 5th grade because they are happy with ES and thinking they'll just do it for 6th.

I just lived this (have a 4th grader at a good EOTP school with a bad middle) and while I may have considered staying when I was young and foolish, it was not at all an option. Our entire cohort played the lottery. Middle school is too important and the chances of getting a better path in 5th is so much higher than waiting for 6th (bc of Latin, Basis, ITS and all of the deal and Hardy (and maybe others depending on your standards)) feeders.

We had a medium number and got a placement at a good charter and an offer from a Hardy feeder.

I find this topic of conversation so fascinating - both as a former educator and a parent of current upper elementary and middle schoolers. There are so many truths and angles to this discussion, but also a lot of fear, assumptions, and group-think that play in - it is almost impossible to have a completely objective view of the middle school conversation. Added to that that different kids do well in smaller/bigger programs, sports/clubs/theatre mean more to some families than others, and it quickly turns into a web that is hard to navigate.
I will add that a lot of the families I know who are making huge changes after 4th - either pulling their kids from school, or moving their whole family -- are doing so based on reputations from this site (or similar), things online, or bc of friends they know that have done the same. It will be interesting in the next few years as increasing numbers of families finish 8th grade at the DCPS middle schools that have formerly been written off as 'horrible' or 'not an option'. Elementary families will then have real voices to listen to, often with siblings still at the elementary school - that will describe how the middle school experience actually was. And maybe in the end of the day some of the assumptions will be confirmed, but what I am starting to see as we enter these years as that there are layers/groups of kids, activities, classes, and experiences at every school. Which can be said for all middle schools - if you read this forum both public, private, MD, and VA - middle and high school get tricky no matter where you are.

Middle school is when things get tricky no matter where you are. Things are easiest where there is defined tracking. Because DC doesn't offer tracking, its schools will always be problematic.