Lottery data with June offer numbers is up

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Quick glance as a ward 4 parent; Takoma and Whittier not offering one spot so far for PK3 is remarkable.

Shepherd hasn't offered one waitlist spot in any grade.

Shepherd feeds to Deal and JR. Not the same as Whittier and Takoma. It is pretty remarkable those two schools didn’t offer a waitlist spot to any PK3 yet.

Not really. Lots of families these days use ECE spots at their IB or any other schools. The real differentiator is upper elementary and percentages of IB families that stay thru upper elementary thru 4th.

Ward 3 families need to stop saying this. We're an upper elementary family leaving our EOTP IB this year ONLY because of the middle school feed. I would LOVE if DCs could stay through fifth at our elementary, but when lottery gold strikes, you have to take it. I'm really sad to leave our school and DCs will be devastated when they find out, but the reality is that there are many nice elementary schools in this city that feed into very less nice middle and high schools, and middle class families that can't afford private have to play the lottery and take the opportunity when it comes.

You are leaving just as Pp said.

Don't be dense. There's a big difference between using your IB pre-K as free daycare and deciding to stay for first, second, third grade. The ONLY "real differentiator" at many EOTP schools is the middle school feeder pattern. There are plenty of schools in DC, if you're there in second and leaving in fourth, it's because you feel like you HAVE to, not because you want to.

Sure but you are not the majority. The data says it all and the overwhelming majority of higher SES IB families at these poorly performing EOTP schools are not staying at their IB schools past K/1st. There is a big exodus and by 2nd, it’s a few families. Just look at the makeup of your 2nd, 3rd grade classes compared to ECE.

The one exception is Capitol Hill schools where majority do stay thru 4th at least.

Can you provide a link to this data?

It doesn't really exist. Audited enrollment numbers will give number of students by grade, number of students by race, and number of students by at-risk designation, but it doesn't give at-risk/race by grade. You can kind of get a sense of the PK3-2nd and 3rd-5th split looking at PARCC data totals by at-risk/race, but at individual grade levels the data is often suppressed.

I think PP may have literally meant "look." Not really a great basis for making sweeping generalizations.

I think the PK3-2nd vs. PARCC grade demographics tells you quite a bit.

Not knowing the distribution within in those grade bands limits its practical utility.

For example, at our IB 3rd-5th is about 60% economically disadvantaged. But working around data suppression (not possible at all schools), the actual distribution is 47% in 3rd, 64% in 4th, and 73% in 5th.

Not really. If you want to know if there are high SES families which everyone knows is proxy for white in this town, just look at demographics.

20% at risk is the magic number. Anything above that and it’s going to affect academic performance in general so if you are 50% or 75%, you are way above that threshold.. Also, DC defines at risk in the extreme as homeless, SNAP, etc…. There are lots of lower, poor SES families who don’t fall in the at risk category.

What are you basing this 20% threshold on?

The list of EotP elementary schools that fit this criteria is very short: Ross, Brent, AppleTree LP, O-A, Stokes Brookland, Shepherd, LAMB, MV C8, SWS, DC Wildflower, Maury, YY, Peabody, LEARN, Lee Brookland, L-T, Bancroft.

There have been studies looking at the at risk percentages in a classroom and how it affects the performance of different groups of low and high performers. BTW FCPS also conducted their own study some years ago in their school system and also came up with 20%.

Would be interested if you have links. I'm curious how performance is defined and what the degree of impact is.

[Anonymous]

So how does PARCC know that a kid is economically disadvantaged? Do they ask for parents tax documents prior to the test?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So how does PARCC know that a kid is economically disadvantaged? Do they ask for parents tax documents prior to the test?

The schools track student data. They break out a number of student categories in conjunction with the PARCC data, although much of it is suppressed in the public data at the school level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ida B Wells seems to be on an upward trajectory. 6th grade this year only opened 30 seats for non-feeder elementary and has a waitlist with no June offers. Last year they matched 25 seats on match day (79 opened) and had no one on the waitlist. This year is the first year of 8th graders who were able to attend for the full 3 years.

We love Wells! Unfortunately DCPS restricted lottery seats this year to control the overcrowding, but we know lots of families are taking OOB seats at the feeder elementaries in order to access Wells in future years.

To clarify, our first 8th grade graduation was in 2022 (with students who started in 6th grade in 2019). This is the first year of graduating 8th graders who didn’t have to deal with virtual/pandemic school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ida B Wells seems to be on an upward trajectory. 6th grade this year only opened 30 seats for non-feeder elementary and has a waitlist with no June offers. Last year they matched 25 seats on match day (79 opened) and had no one on the waitlist. This year is the first year of 8th graders who were able to attend for the full 3 years.

We love Wells! Unfortunately DCPS restricted lottery seats this year to control the overcrowding, but we know lots of families are taking OOB seats at the feeder elementaries in order to access Wells in future years.

To clarify, our first 8th grade graduation was in 2022 (with students who started in 6th grade in 2019). This is the first year of graduating 8th graders who didn’t have to deal with virtual/pandemic school.

Why is it unfortunate DCPS restricted lottery seats? Wells is a new school that is already at the brink of overcrowding. If it continues to be popular kids are going to have to learn in trailers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:EA at BASIS is going to be a disaster.

You said the quiet part out loud. Why do you assume that kids who are economically disadvantaged are dumb and/or can't apply themselves? Why do you assume they don't have or can't develop executive functioning? Some of these 10 and 11 year old kids have already dealt with more sh*t in their lives than you will ever know and they are still in the game fighting to succeed. EA preferences are designed precisely for this reason; to ensure kids who more than many others need a solid educational footing have access.

This. I'm familiar with one of the AZ basis schools. There are some graduating seniors getting free lunch and also getting some hefty college scholarships for being economically disadvantaged or first generation. These kids absolutely can succeed at Basis if they're smart and motivated.

BASIS Arizona and BASIS DC are two entirely different admission models. I wish people commenting would take the time to figure this out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:EA at BASIS is going to be a disaster.

You said the quiet part out loud. Why do you assume that kids who are economically disadvantaged are dumb and/or can't apply themselves? Why do you assume they don't have or can't develop executive functioning? Some of these 10 and 11 year old kids have already dealt with more sh*t in their lives than you will ever know and they are still in the game fighting to succeed. EA preferences are designed precisely for this reason; to ensure kids who more than many others need a solid educational footing have access.

This. I'm familiar with one of the AZ basis schools. There are some graduating seniors getting free lunch and also getting some hefty college scholarships for being economically disadvantaged or first generation. These kids absolutely can succeed at Basis if they're smart and motivated.

BASIS Arizona and BASIS DC are two entirely different admission models. I wish people commenting would take the time to figure this out.

No they aren't. All BASIS charter schools are pure lottery, no fee schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Quick glance as a ward 4 parent; Takoma and Whittier not offering one spot so far for PK3 is remarkable.

Shepherd hasn't offered one waitlist spot in any grade.

Shepherd feeds to Deal and JR. Not the same as Whittier and Takoma. It is pretty remarkable those two schools didn’t offer a waitlist spot to any PK3 yet.

Not really. Lots of families these days use ECE spots at their IB or any other schools. The real differentiator is upper elementary and percentages of IB families that stay thru upper elementary thru 4th.

Ward 3 families need to stop saying this. We're an upper elementary family leaving our EOTP IB this year ONLY because of the middle school feed. I would LOVE if DCs could stay through fifth at our elementary, but when lottery gold strikes, you have to take it. I'm really sad to leave our school and DCs will be devastated when they find out, but the reality is that there are many nice elementary schools in this city that feed into very less nice middle and high schools, and middle class families that can't afford private have to play the lottery and take the opportunity when it comes.

You are leaving just as Pp said.

Don't be dense. There's a big difference between using your IB pre-K as free daycare and deciding to stay for first, second, third grade. The ONLY "real differentiator" at many EOTP schools is the middle school feeder pattern. There are plenty of schools in DC, if you're there in second and leaving in fourth, it's because you feel like you HAVE to, not because you want to.

Sure but you are not the majority. The data says it all and the overwhelming majority of higher SES IB families at these poorly performing EOTP schools are not staying at their IB schools past K/1st. There is a big exodus and by 2nd, it’s a few families. Just look at the makeup of your 2nd, 3rd grade classes compared to ECE.

The one exception is Capitol Hill schools where majority do stay thru 4th at least.

Can you provide a link to this data?

It doesn't really exist. Audited enrollment numbers will give number of students by grade, number of students by race, and number of students by at-risk designation, but it doesn't give at-risk/race by grade. You can kind of get a sense of the PK3-2nd and 3rd-5th split looking at PARCC data totals by at-risk/race, but at individual grade levels the data is often suppressed.

I think PP may have literally meant "look." Not really a great basis for making sweeping generalizations.

I think the PK3-2nd vs. PARCC grade demographics tells you quite a bit.

Not knowing the distribution within in those grade bands limits its practical utility.

For example, at our IB 3rd-5th is about 60% economically disadvantaged. But working around data suppression (not possible at all schools), the actual distribution is 47% in 3rd, 64% in 4th, and 73% in 5th.

Not really. If you want to know if there are high SES families which everyone knows is proxy for white in this town, just look at demographics.

20% at risk is the magic number. Anything above that and it’s going to affect academic performance in general so if you are 50% or 75%, you are way above that threshold.. Also, DC defines at risk in the extreme as homeless, SNAP, etc…. There are lots of lower, poor SES families who don’t fall in the at risk category.

What are you basing this 20% threshold on?

The list of EotP elementary schools that fit this criteria is very short: Ross, Brent, AppleTree LP, O-A, Stokes Brookland, Shepherd, LAMB, MV C8, SWS, DC Wildflower, Maury, YY, Peabody, LEARN, Lee Brookland, L-T, Bancroft.

Could you please share the source for this data?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So how does PARCC know that a kid is economically disadvantaged? Do they ask for parents tax documents prior to the test?

Uhm, because it’s linked to student ID number… It’s not like kids take the test anonymously. Was this a serious question?

[Anonymous]

Yes it was a serious question bc I’m trying to get an understanding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:EA at BASIS is going to be a disaster.

You said the quiet part out loud. Why do you assume that kids who are economically disadvantaged are dumb and/or can't apply themselves? Why do you assume they don't have or can't develop executive functioning? Some of these 10 and 11 year old kids have already dealt with more sh*t in their lives than you will ever know and they are still in the game fighting to succeed. EA preferences are designed precisely for this reason; to ensure kids who more than many others need a solid educational footing have access.

This. I'm familiar with one of the AZ basis schools. There are some graduating seniors getting free lunch and also getting some hefty college scholarships for being economically disadvantaged or first generation. These kids absolutely can succeed at Basis if they're smart and motivated.

BASIS Arizona and BASIS DC are two entirely different admission models. I wish people commenting would take the time to figure this out.

It doesn't matter. The question was whether economically disadvantaged kids who self select into the Basis lottery are likely to fail at Basis. They aren't. There is a lot of self selection in who enters the lottery for Basis. If an economically disadvantaged family wants their kids at Basis, then the family values education and is likely to support their kids to whatever extent they can.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ida B Wells seems to be on an upward trajectory. 6th grade this year only opened 30 seats for non-feeder elementary and has a waitlist with no June offers. Last year they matched 25 seats on match day (79 opened) and had no one on the waitlist. This year is the first year of 8th graders who were able to attend for the full 3 years.

We love Wells! Unfortunately DCPS restricted lottery seats this year to control the overcrowding, but we know lots of families are taking OOB seats at the feeder elementaries in order to access Wells in future years.

To clarify, our first 8th grade graduation was in 2022 (with students who started in 6th grade in 2019). This is the first year of graduating 8th graders who didn’t have to deal with virtual/pandemic school.

Why is it unfortunate DCPS restricted lottery seats? Wells is a new school that is already at the brink of overcrowding. If it continues to be popular kids are going to have to learn in trailers.

First, because the mandated cut in projected enrollment caused the associated budget cuts to eliminate several teaching positions, including electives. If trailers are good enough for Deal and their enormous budget and offerings, why restrict us?

Additionally the boundary study dismissed the idea of recommending a capital expansion despite thousands of new housing units coming in the next five years and the feeder elementaries at new enrollment highs. Wells and Coolidge were both built to projected enrollments that the community argued even then were too low, and that mistake has come to bear remarkably quickly.

As others are saying in this thread, momentum is important for reputation and word of mouth. I dread the day I hear from a neighbor, Wells doesn’t have X electives so we chose elsewhere.

DCPS cut all lottery seats for Coolidge for the same reason. Meanwhile MacArthur is offering 150+ just for 9th grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So how does PARCC know that a kid is economically disadvantaged? Do they ask for parents tax documents prior to the test?

Uhm, because it’s linked to student ID number… It’s not like kids take the test anonymously. Was this a serious question?

How is the student ID number linked to the parents income?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Quick glance as a ward 4 parent; Takoma and Whittier not offering one spot so far for PK3 is remarkable.

Shepherd hasn't offered one waitlist spot in any grade.

Shepherd feeds to Deal and JR. Not the same as Whittier and Takoma. It is pretty remarkable those two schools didn’t offer a waitlist spot to any PK3 yet.

Not really. Lots of families these days use ECE spots at their IB or any other schools. The real differentiator is upper elementary and percentages of IB families that stay thru upper elementary thru 4th.

Ward 3 families need to stop saying this. We're an upper elementary family leaving our EOTP IB this year ONLY because of the middle school feed. I would LOVE if DCs could stay through fifth at our elementary, but when lottery gold strikes, you have to take it. I'm really sad to leave our school and DCs will be devastated when they find out, but the reality is that there are many nice elementary schools in this city that feed into very less nice middle and high schools, and middle class families that can't afford private have to play the lottery and take the opportunity when it comes.

You are leaving just as Pp said.

Don't be dense. There's a big difference between using your IB pre-K as free daycare and deciding to stay for first, second, third grade. The ONLY "real differentiator" at many EOTP schools is the middle school feeder pattern. There are plenty of schools in DC, if you're there in second and leaving in fourth, it's because you feel like you HAVE to, not because you want to.

Sure but you are not the majority. The data says it all and the overwhelming majority of higher SES IB families at these poorly performing EOTP schools are not staying at their IB schools past K/1st. There is a big exodus and by 2nd, it’s a few families. Just look at the makeup of your 2nd, 3rd grade classes compared to ECE.

The one exception is Capitol Hill schools where majority do stay thru 4th at least.

Can you provide a link to this data?

It doesn't really exist. Audited enrollment numbers will give number of students by grade, number of students by race, and number of students by at-risk designation, but it doesn't give at-risk/race by grade. You can kind of get a sense of the PK3-2nd and 3rd-5th split looking at PARCC data totals by at-risk/race, but at individual grade levels the data is often suppressed.

I think PP may have literally meant "look." Not really a great basis for making sweeping generalizations.

I think the PK3-2nd vs. PARCC grade demographics tells you quite a bit.

Not knowing the distribution within in those grade bands limits its practical utility.

For example, at our IB 3rd-5th is about 60% economically disadvantaged. But working around data suppression (not possible at all schools), the actual distribution is 47% in 3rd, 64% in 4th, and 73% in 5th.

Not really. If you want to know if there are high SES families which everyone knows is proxy for white in this town, just look at demographics.

20% at risk is the magic number. Anything above that and it’s going to affect academic performance in general so if you are 50% or 75%, you are way above that threshold.. Also, DC defines at risk in the extreme as homeless, SNAP, etc…. There are lots of lower, poor SES families who don’t fall in the at risk category.

What are you basing this 20% threshold on?

The list of EotP elementary schools that fit this criteria is very short: Ross, Brent, AppleTree LP, O-A, Stokes Brookland, Shepherd, LAMB, MV C8, SWS, DC Wildflower, Maury, YY, Peabody, LEARN, Lee Brookland, L-T, Bancroft.

Could you please share the source for this data?

The enrollment audit. I had to calculate the percentages myself by dividing at risk students by total students. Data is here: https://osse.dc.gov/node/1720871 Relevant sheet is "School UPSFF by Spl Need"

[Anonymous]

Exactly, poster above gets it! None of this makes sense. How do they know a kid is economically disadvantaged? They don’t ask for tax documents, and like the poster above said how is parents income linked to student ID