The helicopter parents won - a look back

[Anonymous]

OP here I’ve been accused of being a “laid back snow plow parent” and “checking out on my kids” the trolling on this site is ponderous.

My post is part lament and part warning. I thought that we were active parents with well adjusted kids that were doing pretty well. Particularly in early elementary school I thought the parents pushing their kids into ever higher math groups and scheming to get their 2nd graders into the most competitive travel team were slightly unhinged. But now looking at the results I think I was wrong.

The facts are these.

1. Up through middle school I had good and happy kids they did well in schools and standardized tests and participated in rec sports every season. We sat with them while they did thier homework, went to thier games met with their teachers and even coached a few of their teams.


2. In high school- They did well academically and took a few APs. But they were not among the most advanced kids. My eldest never made the highschool baseball team and my youngest seeing his brother ‘s struggles switched to lacrosse. Both participated in varsity sports (cross country, track and lacrosse for our youngest)

3. Both were accepted to good but not elite colleges. Whereas many of the kids we started with are going to elite school and/or recruited athletes.

4. I’m not unhappy with their experience or results but In retrospect I think if we had pushed more in elementary school we would’ve gotten better results. I think they would have certainly played highschool baseball if we had taken it more seriously.

As I wrote before - when they were smaller we didn’t want hectic nights and weekends so we didn’t prioritize travel sports. The kids were happy and doing well in school so we thought there was no need to push them into more advanced classes.

I understand that we are very fortunate that our kids are happy healthy and going to good schools but looking back we missed opportunities. Would pushing have substantially changed the outcome- I don’t know. But the cost for that pushing would not have been that much more than we were already doing.

[Anonymous]

OP, this hindsight second-guessing helps no one. Time to move on and work on yourself.

[Anonymous]

OP, their kids are doing well **in school**.

The real world might be a different story. When they get into the workplace, the rat race, and have to deal with conflict, being told no, and roadblocks to progress.

No manager wants to pick up Line 1 and hear an employee's mom asking why their kid didn't get the promotion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yeah no amount of travel sport will help your child get into a good college if they are just not talented enough. My friend has her kids in a sport since they were 5 and then they did travel as well. Neither of her kids could even get into varsity in high school because even varsity is extremely competitive in the good schools. Athletic ability in a sport is largely an innate talent and cannot be taught.

Academically as well some kids are just brighter and can understand new material easily whereas others struggle. Tutoring may help till middle school but by high school, you have to have a strong understanding of concepts in order to do well. Most kids are average and there is nothing wrong with that!

But all the kids who do get into a "good college" come from competitive travel type teams. Nobody just shows up for a tryout and makes the team. They don't all make it, but the ones who aren't even there to begin with definitely don't have a shot. When they are 5 you have no idea who will go all the way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here I’ve been accused of being a “laid back snow plow parent” and “checking out on my kids” the trolling on this site is ponderous.

My post is part lament and part warning. I thought that we were active parents with well adjusted kids that were doing pretty well. Particularly in early elementary school I thought the parents pushing their kids into ever higher math groups and scheming to get their 2nd graders into the most competitive travel team were slightly unhinged. But now looking at the results I think I was wrong.

The facts are these.

1. Up through middle school I had good and happy kids they did well in schools and standardized tests and participated in rec sports every season. We sat with them while they did thier homework, went to thier games met with their teachers and even coached a few of their teams.


2. In high school- They did well academically and took a few APs. But they were not among the most advanced kids. My eldest never made the highschool baseball team and my youngest seeing his brother ‘s struggles switched to lacrosse. Both participated in varsity sports (cross country, track and lacrosse for our youngest)

3. Both were accepted to good but not elite colleges. Whereas many of the kids we started with are going to elite school and/or recruited athletes.

4. I’m not unhappy with their experience or results but In retrospect I think if we had pushed more in elementary school we would’ve gotten better results. I think they would have certainly played highschool baseball if we had taken it more seriously.

As I wrote before - when they were smaller we didn’t want hectic nights and weekends so we didn’t prioritize travel sports. The kids were happy and doing well in school so we thought there was no need to push them into more advanced classes.

I understand that we are very fortunate that our kids are happy healthy and going to good schools but looking back we missed opportunities. Would pushing have substantially changed the outcome- I don’t know. But the cost for that pushing would not have been that much more than we were already doing.

I’m still in the thick of it with my oldest only being a freshman. Even the parents who were involved can still get cut in high school. We live in McLean where every parent seems pretty involved. Even the parents who push and have kids who do make the teams don’t always have the best results.

I have 3 kids. One of my kids started playing a new sports and loves it. He is good but not an elite player. We have spent countless time and money on his other sports and activities but he wants to do this new sport more. It is unlikely he will make the high school team. I actually think this kid may be the most successful one day. He had such a strong will. He doesn’t just listen to us and has a strong personality. He is the weakest academically of my 3 kids with the most potential.

[Anonymous]

OP, I bet you are undervaluing how much calmer and better a parent you likely were by having some space in your schedule. Things would not have been the same with crazy logistics. That's not to say some families shouldn't do travel sports and all the things, but if you thought then it would have had a negative impact, you were probably correct and who they have become was partially shaped by the more attentive mom, the downtime, freedom to choose some of what they did, etc. You can't ignore those impacts.

Being on the baseball team or whatever may have had some benefits, but it also would have had a cost that you knew at the time and may have lost sight of now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, their kids are doing well **in school**.

The real world might be a different story. When they get into the workplace, the rat race, and have to deal with conflict, being told no, and roadblocks to progress.

No manager wants to pick up Line 1 and hear an employee's mom asking why their kid didn't get the promotion.

Ditto. I'm done hiring from a couple certain top schools including my ivy alma mater, sadly. The kids are smart and knowledgeable but not motivated self starters. Since I can't also hire their tiger parents to tell them what to do and push them along, it hasn't worked well 90 percent of the time. The exceptions have been those who had to work in college to help pay for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My experience has been the opposite of OP’s. The pushy parents eventually got rebellion. My child is at a top college, well adjusted, and not resentful of me for breathing down his neck.

+1. I had a pushy mom and went to a top college. I’ve hated her and had a crap relationship with her for years.

You can have a crap relationship with any parent. Pretty sure she could have neglected you or remarried and you could have a crap relationship too.

I had a pushy mom. My best friend’s mom was so nice, extremely passive and was not pushy in any way. My friend loves her mom and has a good relationship with her but she also blames a lot of her problems on her mom. I don’t have the best relationship with my mom. She isn’t pushy anymore but just annoys me. I turned out well, went to good schools, married well, etc.

Stop justifying crazy

I’m not crazy. I’m well educated and married someone also well educated. My mom wanted me to get good grades, go to a good college, get a good job and live well. I wish the same for my kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m sending my youngest to college next year. He got into a good school early addmission and all of my kids did well. But as I look back on this parenting experience it occurs to me that the kids with the fanaticaly involved parents did the best - academically and athletically.

When the kids were in early elementary school, I remember shaking my head as my fellow parents talked about advanced math tutoring for their kindergartener or plotting to get their second grader on the most competitive travel team. At the time it seemed so silly to chart out the life of a kid who still needed naps. However, looking at those kids now - those are the kids who are going on to play sports at top colleges.

My takeaway is that even if you are a committed free range parent - your kid is in a competitive environment competing for scarce opportunities to go to top schools and play for competitive school teams.

I’m not unhappy about how my kids turned out or their experience in high School. But I don’t think I realized the the decision not to push advanced math in grade school meant a diminished opportunity to go to Tech or UMD. I definitely didn’t realize that only doing town baseball (and not travel) meant that they wouldn’t make the highschool team.

It not like my kids were slouches. They played on at least one rec team every season. Swim team in the summer and got good grades and scores on standardized tests.

But I can’t shake the feeling that I’ve pushed harder our results would’ve been much better.

Yes to the bold. If any of this matters to parents, and the children have the capacity and capability (the latter are super important, critical), there needs to be a plan. If the children do not have the capacity and capability, they no amount of pushing would advance them. They key I think is knowing your kid and understanding their potential, and then lining up the opportunities accordingly.

I haven't gotten far in this thread but it seems sick.
So the two measurements of good parenting are these successful outcomes: 1) college acceptances 2) playing sports at a college (related to 1)

No. Good parenting means making the most of your kid's potential. Your kid may not have what it takes to get into college or play sports at any level, so obviously those can't be measures. The measurement of success is whether you as a parent figured out what your kid's potential was, and whether you helped your kid achieve that. For some kids, their max potential is just to be nice people, and if you've taught them how to be nice, then you've achieved success.

+1
It is extremely similar to what successful adults do throughout their careers. They maximize their strengths and plan out their strategy to achieve. Take on this extra project in the hope of a promotion, work late in the hope for recognition. To think that people do not do this with their young children is quite naive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your post is giving me anxiety, my kids are in elementary. So are you saying that we should invest in math tutors?

Unless you can do it yourself YES

[Anonymous]

I pity those kids and OP. College is not the end game and time will truly tell....

I want my kids to have a happy well balanced life. That's the end game for me. When I look around my competitive workplace the most 'successful' career wise are the least balanced people I see. Many forego family all together, many age too quickly, or trade off fitness and social life for career success. That's not a successful person to me. Success is a healthy balance. For example - we are wealthy and high earners (HHI >700k), but don't have top leadership positions. I actually WFH and set my own schedule. We have 4 kids who attend top schools, but they too are not the best at anything. They're good a tons of stuff and we don't push them at all. We both went to run of the mill state schools and encourage our kids to do the same, which is in stark contrast to many parents at the Big 3 the kids attend. I just want my kids to feel valued for who they are - intrinsic value as God intended - not that life is some great rat race cradle to grave. OP, you sound like the latter and I'm sorry you are so insecure. There IS more to life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your post is giving me anxiety, my kids are in elementary. So are you saying that we should invest in math tutors?

Unless you can do it yourself YES

DH and I both majored in STEM and are very strong in math. My kids always did well in math in elementary. We never did math tutoring for them. When my oldest took Algebra in 7th grade, he struggled. He had a B and just couldn’t get an A. He lacked math foundation despite always getting good grades in math. Granted he just came out of covid. We got him a math tutor and he pulled his grade up to an A.

Now my second kid is in 7th grade and also getting Bs in Algebra. I think there was a learning gap between elementary and algebra. We got him a math tutor and now he is getting A pluses on his tests.

We have a third child in elementary. She is also doing well in math. We are considering putting her in some sort of math problem so she gets strong math fundamentals.

I thinj there is a problem with how math is taught in elementary. I went to a school meeting recently and my 7 year old does most math on the computer. I asked the teacher about paper and she said they do small group math centers. My friend has a 9 year old daughter who was also getting good grades in math. Recently she had a bad assessment and upon doing some more digging, my friend was really upset to learn that her daughter does not have basic math fundamentals. They play math games at school. Parents don’t see paper quizzes. Our school has a no homework policy. It is a real problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP your kids just weren’t that athletic. FACTS

All caps doesn't make this true. It takes enormous resources and family commitment to pursue sports at a high level. Not every kid has that, regardless of talent. You could say the same about academics, yet the solution to reducing inequity is by spending more money. Same for sports.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP your kids just weren’t that athletic. FACTS

I just don’t think that facts support that. When my eldest first did kid pitch he was a starter and in highschool he got to states for track & cross country. I think the other parents just out worked us in baseball

[Anonymous]

I can’t imagine losing all my weekends to travel sports just so my kid had a better chance of going to a higher ranked university. It’s all a bunch of who cares. I went to state school and work side by side with former rich kids who went to Ivy leagues.