Biden Admin to Remove Statue of William Penn from Philadelphia Park

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody should be surprised when Americans no longer take pride in the western democracy and values we established thanks to the continued denigration of our history. Was it a perfect history? No. But it resulted in a democracy built on the rule of law and eventual equality unmatched around the globe…and yet here we are promoting a narrative that we should only feel shame.

Instead of tearing down a statue and erasing history, why not add a component recognizing the Native American past?

We are heading down the wrong path when we rewrite history and tarnish our accomplishments with shame.

Stop dividing; start reunifying.

We are Americans…regardless of when your ancestors arrived and regardless of where you came from. Unify under our american values and celebrate the diversity of all who came here for a better life.

Lastly: stop pretending that America is a miserable failure. It isn’t.

There can be no unity without repentance. I'm glad the Biden admin is taking this steps. Western civilization was built on disease, death & destruction of others. There is no pride in that kind of society. There has been no other society as destructive and unkind to humans as Western civilization. So if the goal is to move ahead, we need to leave the past behind. Start over.

Start over based on what foundation?

Democracy, equality, western values, rule of law, etc.?

These are American values developed and perfected in the USA over time. Many, many countries still lag faaaaar behind.

Do you suggest we rebuild based on the current hyper-divisive climate where we are meant to feel nothing but shame rather than acknowledge our imperfect past and tremendous evolution?

It’s divisive in-part because people like you continue to elevate colonizers and enslavers like Penn (and a myriad of others) that allow you to maintain a privileged place in society.

Sincere question: are you only outraged by European colonialism and American slavery?

Because surely you must realize that people around the globe have engaged in colonialism and slavery…including modern day human trafficking that typically has nonwhites trafficking other nonwhites.

America remains one of the few places (perhaps only place) where anyone can thrive.

Europeans and western society have much to make amends for but this discussion is about William Penn the enslaver and slave trader. He should not be honored with idols that don’t account for his evil. Don’t try to obfuscate this with your whataboutism.

DP. So you'll be lobbying UPenn to change their name, as well as Penn Station - oh, and don't forget the state of Pennsylvania. You've got a lot to do, get cracking!

Penn should change its name, it's always been a meh name for such a distinguished school. Half the country doesn't know what it is because of its name.

--Penn alumn

Um, pretty sure the entire country knows that Penn stands for Pennsylvania. Good grief. And it's not so "distinguished" any longer - sorry to break it to you.

I'm from the midwest and went to Penn. Everyone back home thinks I went to Penn State. No joke.

At least they know it's in Pennsylvania!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody should be surprised when Americans no longer take pride in the western democracy and values we established thanks to the continued denigration of our history. Was it a perfect history? No. But it resulted in a democracy built on the rule of law and eventual equality unmatched around the globe…and yet here we are promoting a narrative that we should only feel shame.

Instead of tearing down a statue and erasing history, why not add a component recognizing the Native American past?

We are heading down the wrong path when we rewrite history and tarnish our accomplishments with shame.

Stop dividing; start reunifying.

We are Americans…regardless of when your ancestors arrived and regardless of where you came from. Unify under our american values and celebrate the diversity of all who came here for a better life.

Lastly: stop pretending that America is a miserable failure. It isn’t.

There can be no unity without repentance. I'm glad the Biden admin is taking this steps. Western civilization was built on disease, death & destruction of others. There is no pride in that kind of society. There has been no other society as destructive and unkind to humans as Western civilization. So if the goal is to move ahead, we need to leave the past behind. Start over.

Start over based on what foundation?

Democracy, equality, western values, rule of law, etc.?

These are American values developed and perfected in the USA over time. Many, many countries still lag faaaaar behind.

Do you suggest we rebuild based on the current hyper-divisive climate where we are meant to feel nothing but shame rather than acknowledge our imperfect past and tremendous evolution?

It’s divisive in-part because people like you continue to elevate colonizers and enslavers like Penn (and a myriad of others) that allow you to maintain a privileged place in society.

Sincere question: are you only outraged by European colonialism and American slavery?

Because surely you must realize that people around the globe have engaged in colonialism and slavery…including modern day human trafficking that typically has nonwhites trafficking other nonwhites.

America remains one of the few places (perhaps only place) where anyone can thrive.

Europeans and western society have much to make amends for but this discussion is about William Penn the enslaver and slave trader. He should not be honored with idols that don’t account for his evil. Don’t try to obfuscate this with your whataboutism.

DP. So you'll be lobbying UPenn to change their name, as well as Penn Station - oh, and don't forget the state of Pennsylvania. You've got a lot to do, get cracking!

One step at a time. Justice is a process.

Indeed. In the last couple of years you were forced to get rid of your memorials to those who sought to destroy the United States in the south. You were forced to abandon your military base names commemorating enslavers.
Here’s a hint. There are more enlightened folks than there are of your kind and will continue to progress to a equitable future while you sit at home in your MAGA hat.

Do you typically respond in such a rude, aggressive way to people you agree with? Strange.
DP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody should be surprised when Americans no longer take pride in the western democracy and values we established thanks to the continued denigration of our history. Was it a perfect history? No. But it resulted in a democracy built on the rule of law and eventual equality unmatched around the globe…and yet here we are promoting a narrative that we should only feel shame.

Instead of tearing down a statue and erasing history, why not add a component recognizing the Native American past?

We are heading down the wrong path when we rewrite history and tarnish our accomplishments with shame.

Stop dividing; start reunifying.

We are Americans…regardless of when your ancestors arrived and regardless of where you came from. Unify under our american values and celebrate the diversity of all who came here for a better life.

Lastly: stop pretending that America is a miserable failure. It isn’t.

There can be no unity without repentance. I'm glad the Biden admin is taking this steps. Western civilization was built on disease, death & destruction of others. There is no pride in that kind of society. There has been no other society as destructive and unkind to humans as Western civilization. So if the goal is to move ahead, we need to leave the past behind. Start over.

Start over based on what foundation?

Democracy, equality, western values, rule of law, etc.?

These are American values developed and perfected in the USA over time. Many, many countries still lag faaaaar behind.

Do you suggest we rebuild based on the current hyper-divisive climate where we are meant to feel nothing but shame rather than acknowledge our imperfect past and tremendous evolution?

It’s divisive in-part because people like you continue to elevate colonizers and enslavers like Penn (and a myriad of others) that allow you to maintain a privileged place in society.

Sincere question: are you only outraged by European colonialism and American slavery?

Because surely you must realize that people around the globe have engaged in colonialism and slavery…including modern day human trafficking that typically has nonwhites trafficking other nonwhites.

America remains one of the few places (perhaps only place) where anyone can thrive.

Europeans and western society have much to make amends for but this discussion is about William Penn the enslaver and slave trader. He should not be honored with idols that don’t account for his evil. Don’t try to obfuscate this with your whataboutism.

DP. So you'll be lobbying UPenn to change their name, as well as Penn Station - oh, and don't forget the state of Pennsylvania. You've got a lot to do, get cracking!

One step at a time. Justice is a process.

Indeed. In the last couple of years you were forced to get rid of your memorials to those who sought to destroy the United States in the south. You were forced to abandon your military base names commemorating enslavers.
Here’s a hint. There are more enlightened folks than there are of your kind and will continue to progress to a equitable future while you sit at home in your MAGA hat.

Yeah.... that horrible individual who sought to destroy the US ...... that repulsive..... Abraham Lincoln.
Thanks for saving us from such injustice.



And, I am assuming that you believe George Floyd to be one of those more enlightened folks?

+1
Talk about an upside world.

[Anonymous]

*upside down

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Penn

Wasn’t Penn a Quaker who lived peacefully with native Americans? And quakers were antislavery. In fact, Pennsylvania was a haven for freed slaves thanks to the Underground Railroad essentially run by quakers.

I'm sure of you talked to the native Americans who experienced white settlers encroaching on their land, they would have a different story. For instance, they might say that they were forced to live peacefully next to their captors and oppressors.:. But sure let's Romanticize history.

Boo hoo. All throughout history there have been winners and losers. Natives got conquered by a superior force with more modern technology. Same story that has occurred for multiple millennia. Maybe they should tear down all of the ancient Roman structures in Africa and the Middle East too because they were conquered by the Romans?


Americans are really, really dumb these days. DEI is a cancer on their brains. Everything is racist. Everything is oppression. Diversity at all costs is the be all and end all. It's so refreshing traveling for extended periods of time and seeing how the rest of the world operates and does not give two craps about this kind of stuff.

Do everyone a favor. Keep traveling. You won’t be missed.

Or you could just move and leave the US if you hate it and its history so much.

Keep crying about history from 300 years ago. Wait until you learn how the Arabs built their wealth from the Arab slave trade, or the Native Americans also had African slaves. Time to cancel Sitting Bull?

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-institution/how-native-american-slaveholders-complicate-trail-tears-narrative-180968339/

Whoa!! Now here is something I never knew about. Why aren't we taught this history??
DP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody should be surprised when Americans no longer take pride in the western democracy and values we established thanks to the continued denigration of our history. Was it a perfect history? No. But it resulted in a democracy built on the rule of law and eventual equality unmatched around the globe…and yet here we are promoting a narrative that we should only feel shame.

Instead of tearing down a statue and erasing history, why not add a component recognizing the Native American past?

We are heading down the wrong path when we rewrite history and tarnish our accomplishments with shame.

Stop dividing; start reunifying.

We are Americans…regardless of when your ancestors arrived and regardless of where you came from. Unify under our american values and celebrate the diversity of all who came here for a better life.

Lastly: stop pretending that America is a miserable failure. It isn’t.

There can be no unity without repentance. I'm glad the Biden admin is taking this steps. Western civilization was built on disease, death & destruction of others. There is no pride in that kind of society. There has been no other society as destructive and unkind to humans as Western civilization. So if the goal is to move ahead, we need to leave the past behind. Start over.

Start over based on what foundation?

Democracy, equality, western values, rule of law, etc.?

These are American values developed and perfected in the USA over time. Many, many countries still lag faaaaar behind.

Do you suggest we rebuild based on the current hyper-divisive climate where we are meant to feel nothing but shame rather than acknowledge our imperfect past and tremendous evolution?

It’s divisive in-part because people like you continue to elevate colonizers and enslavers like Penn (and a myriad of others) that allow you to maintain a privileged place in society.

Sincere question: are you only outraged by European colonialism and American slavery?

Because surely you must realize that people around the globe have engaged in colonialism and slavery…including modern day human trafficking that typically has nonwhites trafficking other nonwhites.

America remains one of the few places (perhaps only place) where anyone can thrive.

Europeans and western society have much to make amends for but this discussion is about William Penn the enslaver and slave trader. He should not be honored with idols that don’t account for his evil. Don’t try to obfuscate this with your whataboutism.

DP. So you'll be lobbying UPenn to change their name, as well as Penn Station - oh, and don't forget the state of Pennsylvania. You've got a lot to do, get cracking!

Penn should change its name, it's always been a meh name for such a distinguished school. Half the country doesn't know what it is because of its name.

--Penn alumn

Um, pretty sure the entire country knows that Penn stands for Pennsylvania. Good grief. And it's not so "distinguished" any longer - sorry to break it to you.

I'm from the midwest and went to Penn. Everyone back home thinks I went to Penn State. No joke.

I went to Penn State. Trust me, I don't want people to think you went there, either.

Touched a nerve, eh? You should be glad that your school is the one the country recognizes and confuses for the other similarly named school. Why aren't you?

I couldn't afford Penn. I could afford a state school since I am poor, white, redneck trash. I don't want to be confused the Ivy elites who disdain my type.

So cute! YOU assuming the role of victim!

Whooooooooooooooosh...
DP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Will any of you outraged posters come clean and confess you've never even looked at any of the statues in public spaces before and can't name the person depicted by the statue closest to your office? Come on, this is an anonymous board. We know it's true, go ahead and be honest!

Wow, so much projection in your post. You really need to get outside more and pay better attention to your surroundings, including the statues and artwork in our midst. Good luck!

LOL Tell us about your long standing love of bronze statues in public spaces. What does this particular statue mean to you and when was the first time you saw it in person?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Nobody should be surprised when Americans no longer take pride in the western democracy and values we established thanks to the continued denigration of our history. Was it a perfect history? No. But it resulted in a democracy built on the rule of law and eventual equality unmatched around the globe…and yet here we are promoting a narrative that we should only feel shame.

Instead of tearing down a statue and erasing history, why not add a component recognizing the Native American past?

We are heading down the wrong path when we rewrite history and tarnish our accomplishments with shame.

Stop dividing; start reunifying.

We are Americans…regardless of when your ancestors arrived and regardless of where you came from. Unify under our american values and celebrate the diversity of all who came here for a better life.

Lastly: stop pretending that America is a miserable failure. It isn’t.

+ 1 million

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody should be surprised when Americans no longer take pride in the western democracy and values we established thanks to the continued denigration of our history. Was it a perfect history? No. But it resulted in a democracy built on the rule of law and eventual equality unmatched around the globe…and yet here we are promoting a narrative that we should only feel shame.

Instead of tearing down a statue and erasing history, why not add a component recognizing the Native American past?

We are heading down the wrong path when we rewrite history and tarnish our accomplishments with shame.

Stop dividing; start reunifying.

We are Americans…regardless of when your ancestors arrived and regardless of where you came from. Unify under our american values and celebrate the diversity of all who came here for a better life.

Lastly: stop pretending that America is a miserable failure. It isn’t.

There can be no unity without repentance. I'm glad the Biden admin is taking this steps. Western civilization was built on disease, death & destruction of others. There is no pride in that kind of society. There has been no other society as destructive and unkind to humans as Western civilization. So if the goal is to move ahead, we need to leave the past behind. Start over.

Start over based on what foundation?

Democracy, equality, western values, rule of law, etc.?

These are American values developed and perfected in the USA over time. Many, many countries still lag faaaaar behind.

Do you suggest we rebuild based on the current hyper-divisive climate where we are meant to feel nothing but shame rather than acknowledge our imperfect past and tremendous evolution?

It’s divisive in-part because people like you continue to elevate colonizers and enslavers like Penn (and a myriad of others) that allow you to maintain a privileged place in society.

Sincere question: are you only outraged by European colonialism and American slavery?

Because surely you must realize that people around the globe have engaged in colonialism and slavery…including modern day human trafficking that typically has nonwhites trafficking other nonwhites.

America remains one of the few places (perhaps only place) where anyone can thrive.

Europeans and western society have much to make amends for but this discussion is about William Penn the enslaver and slave trader. He should not be honored with idols that don’t account for his evil. Don’t try to obfuscate this with your whataboutism.

DP. So you'll be lobbying UPenn to change their name, as well as Penn Station - oh, and don't forget the state of Pennsylvania. You've got a lot to do, get cracking!

One step at a time. Justice is a process.

Indeed. In the last couple of years you were forced to get rid of your memorials to those who sought to destroy the United States in the south. You were forced to abandon your military base names commemorating enslavers.
Here’s a hint. There are more enlightened folks than there are of your kind and will continue to progress to a equitable future while you sit at home in your MAGA hat.

Yeah.... that horrible individual who sought to destroy the US ...... that repulsive..... Abraham Lincoln.
Thanks for saving us from such injustice.



And, I am assuming that you believe George Floyd to be one of those more enlightened folks?

Actually, good point. If we’re having a moral reckoning regarding people’s statues, I’ve heard that George Floyd even maybe had a record, a criminal record! So, bye anything having to do with Floyd.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody should be surprised when Americans no longer take pride in the western democracy and values we established thanks to the continued denigration of our history. Was it a perfect history? No. But it resulted in a democracy built on the rule of law and eventual equality unmatched around the globe…and yet here we are promoting a narrative that we should only feel shame.

Instead of tearing down a statue and erasing history, why not add a component recognizing the Native American past?

We are heading down the wrong path when we rewrite history and tarnish our accomplishments with shame.

Stop dividing; start reunifying.

We are Americans…regardless of when your ancestors arrived and regardless of where you came from. Unify under our american values and celebrate the diversity of all who came here for a better life.

Lastly: stop pretending that America is a miserable failure. It isn’t.

There can be no unity without repentance. I'm glad the Biden admin is taking this steps. Western civilization was built on disease, death & destruction of others. There is no pride in that kind of society. There has been no other society as destructive and unkind to humans as Western civilization. So if the goal is to move ahead, we need to leave the past behind. Start over.

Start over based on what foundation?

Democracy, equality, western values, rule of law, etc.?

These are American values developed and perfected in the USA over time. Many, many countries still lag faaaaar behind.

Do you suggest we rebuild based on the current hyper-divisive climate where we are meant to feel nothing but shame rather than acknowledge our imperfect past and tremendous evolution?

It’s divisive in-part because people like you continue to elevate colonizers and enslavers like Penn (and a myriad of others) that allow you to maintain a privileged place in society.

Sincere question: are you only outraged by European colonialism and American slavery?

Because surely you must realize that people around the globe have engaged in colonialism and slavery…including modern day human trafficking that typically has nonwhites trafficking other nonwhites.

America remains one of the few places (perhaps only place) where anyone can thrive.

Europeans and western society have much to make amends for but this discussion is about William Penn the enslaver and slave trader. He should not be honored with idols that don’t account for his evil. Don’t try to obfuscate this with your whataboutism.

DP. So you'll be lobbying UPenn to change their name, as well as Penn Station - oh, and don't forget the state of Pennsylvania. You've got a lot to do, get cracking!

One step at a time. Justice is a process.

Indeed. In the last couple of years you were forced to get rid of your memorials to those who sought to destroy the United States in the south. You were forced to abandon your military base names commemorating enslavers.
Here’s a hint. There are more enlightened folks than there are of your kind and will continue to progress to a equitable future while you sit at home in your MAGA hat.

Yeah.... that horrible individual who sought to destroy the US ...... that repulsive..... Abraham Lincoln.
Thanks for saving us from such injustice.



And, I am assuming that you believe George Floyd to be one of those more enlightened folks?

Lincoln cynically allowed some Union states to keep their slaves and only changed his tune over politics not morality. The George Floyd statues serve as reminders to the oppressors - never again will they have such power over the underprivileged.

But Floyd was an oppressor to pregnant women and women of color, so maybe choose someone else?

[Anonymous]

So it turns out at least part of the site was land given by grandson John Penn to the Haudenosaunee "in perpetuity" for their diplomatic and trade delegations. This is based on both Quaker and Native American historical records.

Fair play that they redesign the park to include that fascinating aspect of the history. Right now it's a pretty blah square with just the statue standing in the middle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Will any of you outraged posters come clean and confess you've never even looked at any of the statues in public spaces before and can't name the person depicted by the statue closest to your office? Come on, this is an anonymous board. We know it's true, go ahead and be honest!

Wow, so much projection in your post. You really need to get outside more and pay better attention to your surroundings, including the statues and artwork in our midst. Good luck!

Actually I’d like the answer to this from anyone who objects to this. Specifically the Penn statue. Answer the question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody should be surprised when Americans no longer take pride in the western democracy and values we established thanks to the continued denigration of our history. Was it a perfect history? No. But it resulted in a democracy built on the rule of law and eventual equality unmatched around the globe…and yet here we are promoting a narrative that we should only feel shame.

Instead of tearing down a statue and erasing history, why not add a component recognizing the Native American past?

We are heading down the wrong path when we rewrite history and tarnish our accomplishments with shame.

Stop dividing; start reunifying.

We are Americans…regardless of when your ancestors arrived and regardless of where you came from. Unify under our american values and celebrate the diversity of all who came here for a better life.

Lastly: stop pretending that America is a miserable failure. It isn’t.

There can be no unity without repentance. I'm glad the Biden admin is taking this steps. Western civilization was built on disease, death & destruction of others. There is no pride in that kind of society. There has been no other society as destructive and unkind to humans as Western civilization. So if the goal is to move ahead, we need to leave the past behind. Start over.

Start over based on what foundation?

Democracy, equality, western values, rule of law, etc.?

These are American values developed and perfected in the USA over time. Many, many countries still lag faaaaar behind.

Do you suggest we rebuild based on the current hyper-divisive climate where we are meant to feel nothing but shame rather than acknowledge our imperfect past and tremendous evolution?

It’s divisive in-part because people like you continue to elevate colonizers and enslavers like Penn (and a myriad of others) that allow you to maintain a privileged place in society.

Sincere question: are you only outraged by European colonialism and American slavery?

Because surely you must realize that people around the globe have engaged in colonialism and slavery…including modern day human trafficking that typically has nonwhites trafficking other nonwhites.

America remains one of the few places (perhaps only place) where anyone can thrive.

Europeans and western society have much to make amends for but this discussion is about William Penn the enslaver and slave trader. He should not be honored with idols that don’t account for his evil. Don’t try to obfuscate this with your whataboutism.

DP. So you'll be lobbying UPenn to change their name, as well as Penn Station - oh, and don't forget the state of Pennsylvania. You've got a lot to do, get cracking!

One step at a time. Justice is a process.

Indeed. In the last couple of years you were forced to get rid of your memorials to those who sought to destroy the United States in the south. You were forced to abandon your military base names commemorating enslavers.
Here’s a hint. There are more enlightened folks than there are of your kind and will continue to progress to a equitable future while you sit at home in your MAGA hat.

Yeah.... that horrible individual who sought to destroy the US ...... that repulsive..... Abraham Lincoln.
Thanks for saving us from such injustice.



And, I am assuming that you believe George Floyd to be one of those more enlightened folks?

Lincoln cynically allowed some Union states to keep their slaves and only changed his tune over politics not morality. The George Floyd statues serve as reminders to the oppressors - never again will they have such power over the underprivileged.

But Floyd was an oppressor to pregnant women and women of color, so maybe choose someone else?

Any bad behavior by him doesn’t justify being violently murdered by a police officer. Which is the point of this particular memorial. Not to honor the man but to acknowledge what happened to him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Will any of you outraged posters come clean and confess you've never even looked at any of the statues in public spaces before and can't name the person depicted by the statue closest to your office? Come on, this is an anonymous board. We know it's true, go ahead and be honest!

Wow, so much projection in your post. You really need to get outside more and pay better attention to your surroundings, including the statues and artwork in our midst. Good luck!

Actually I’d like the answer to this from anyone who objects to this. Specifically the Penn statue. Answer the question.

What’s the question? Sorry!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody should be surprised when Americans no longer take pride in the western democracy and values we established thanks to the continued denigration of our history. Was it a perfect history? No. But it resulted in a democracy built on the rule of law and eventual equality unmatched around the globe…and yet here we are promoting a narrative that we should only feel shame.

Instead of tearing down a statue and erasing history, why not add a component recognizing the Native American past?

We are heading down the wrong path when we rewrite history and tarnish our accomplishments with shame.

Stop dividing; start reunifying.

We are Americans…regardless of when your ancestors arrived and regardless of where you came from. Unify under our american values and celebrate the diversity of all who came here for a better life.

Lastly: stop pretending that America is a miserable failure. It isn’t.

There can be no unity without repentance. I'm glad the Biden admin is taking this steps. Western civilization was built on disease, death & destruction of others. There is no pride in that kind of society. There has been no other society as destructive and unkind to humans as Western civilization. So if the goal is to move ahead, we need to leave the past behind. Start over.

Start over based on what foundation?

Democracy, equality, western values, rule of law, etc.?

These are American values developed and perfected in the USA over time. Many, many countries still lag faaaaar behind.

Do you suggest we rebuild based on the current hyper-divisive climate where we are meant to feel nothing but shame rather than acknowledge our imperfect past and tremendous evolution?

It’s divisive in-part because people like you continue to elevate colonizers and enslavers like Penn (and a myriad of others) that allow you to maintain a privileged place in society.

Sincere question: are you only outraged by European colonialism and American slavery?

Because surely you must realize that people around the globe have engaged in colonialism and slavery…including modern day human trafficking that typically has nonwhites trafficking other nonwhites.

America remains one of the few places (perhaps only place) where anyone can thrive.

Europeans and western society have much to make amends for but this discussion is about William Penn the enslaver and slave trader. He should not be honored with idols that don’t account for his evil. Don’t try to obfuscate this with your whataboutism.

DP. So you'll be lobbying UPenn to change their name, as well as Penn Station - oh, and don't forget the state of Pennsylvania. You've got a lot to do, get cracking!

One step at a time. Justice is a process.

Indeed. In the last couple of years you were forced to get rid of your memorials to those who sought to destroy the United States in the south. You were forced to abandon your military base names commemorating enslavers.
Here’s a hint. There are more enlightened folks than there are of your kind and will continue to progress to a equitable future while you sit at home in your MAGA hat.

Yeah.... that horrible individual who sought to destroy the US ...... that repulsive..... Abraham Lincoln.
Thanks for saving us from such injustice.



And, I am assuming that you believe George Floyd to be one of those more enlightened folks?

Lincoln cynically allowed some Union states to keep their slaves and only changed his tune over politics not morality. The George Floyd statues serve as reminders to the oppressors - never again will they have such power over the underprivileged.

But Floyd was an oppressor to pregnant women and women of color, so maybe choose someone else?

Any bad behavior by him doesn’t justify being violently murdered by a police officer. Which is the point of this particular memorial. Not to honor the man but to acknowledge what happened to him.

William Penn is honored for his role founding the state as a Quaker state and a refuge for slave. Not for any "bad behavior by him", whatever that might have been. N'est-ce pas?

Or we can overlook Floyd's past when we acknowledge his value to the country. But we can only see negatives when we look at the Founding Fathers, rather than their value to the country, because ... well, I don't really understand why. But some people on this thread can supply the explanation.