Behavior in DD's school/grade

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was just at the holiday party for my child’s kindergarten class a couple days ago (APS) and don’t relate at all. Every single kid participated in both crafts appropriately and happily, moved along to the next station when it was time, and I didn’t see one break down over the musical chairs and hot potato games. It really does seem stark to me if kids are struggling with these in 3rd if my child’s kindergarten class is not.

I have a kindergartener and a 3rd grader and can confirm the Ks are better behaved. Not sure if it’s due to stronger teachers or more involved parents. By 3rd grade, parents are pretty checked out. Most of those kids weren’t the priority during Covid, as they either had older siblings whose schoolwork was the priority or toddler/baby siblings who needed more hands-on care. Not to mention parents who are burned out from working at jobs that are chronically understaffed. Today’s 3rd graders have been ignored for years and it shows.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:My kid is behaviorally challenging and I'll tell you why. We lost several family members due to COVID and I am an ICU nurse so she didn't see me much. It wasn't just the screens. Maybe for the banana bread crew, but not all of us were.

I love and bake banana bread. But I know what you’re saying and most kids acting like this lost no one, they just have never had responsible parents. It’s laziness for them, full stop, end of. My wealthiest mom friend frequently can’t stand being around her own kid and says so. She does not connect always indulging him, treating him as extra special, not confronting him on his lies, as contributing to his behavior. It is what it is. That’s not you and no one would confuse your very real challenges and sacrifices losses for this kind of crap.

Thank you so much. It means so much to hear that. DCUM can be lovely sometimes.

What am I missing? How is the PP’s comment in any way lovely? She is talking about what crap mom her wealthiest “friend” is. Great friend you are!

If the shoe fits…..

[Anonymous]

NP. I haven’t read most of the PPs but, at minimum, the teacher has no control over the classroom which is unsafe and not a good learning environment. Have you looked into microschools in your area?

My DC’s school is also bad and we are considering our options, including relocating. We didn’t plan on needing to do this so soon, but we aren’t in love with our house anyways.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:My oldest was diagnosed with anxiety and PTSD from her 3rd grade classroom. She had a violently disruptive classmate who caused the kids to evacuate several times a week.

We pulled her from school the rest of that year and then sent her to private the following school year. I was much happier with the student behavior in private school. She didn't have any classroom evacuations.

My best friend used to be a public school teacher in our city. She experienced the same (and worse). Her daughter is a year older than ours and she sent her to private. We did the same and have been very happy.

My now-3rd grader had a safety plan in 1st grade because she had a friend who would target her during extreme behavioral situations and throw/hurl things her way. She would have to self-evacuate to the classroom across the hall. This was at a private school, so the only difference from public is that they could counsel the girl out- but it took 6 months because there wasn’t a strong framework for escalating intervention as there might be in a public school. She ended up in a special behavioral support classroom in our zoned public.

I don’t think private or public is a magic solution; many kids everywhere are in a bad place.

What? Your private school sucks then. Our school has expelled students in a single day due to behavior.

Legally it is very difficult for any private to break a contract in a day unless they have a super restrictive handbook. If your school has a handbook that is specific enough to allow it to expel a child in a day, the behavioral code was probably rewritten in response to similar past incidents. I promise our handbook has changed significantly over the past 2 years.

Throwing/hurling things at a person that then strike that person should have been enough. Of course that happens on accident or sometimes even once on purpose, but this doesn't sound like that. From your description of what was going on, a reasonable school should have had grounds to get rid of that child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:My oldest was diagnosed with anxiety and PTSD from her 3rd grade classroom. She had a violently disruptive classmate who caused the kids to evacuate several times a week.

We pulled her from school the rest of that year and then sent her to private the following school year. I was much happier with the student behavior in private school. She didn't have any classroom evacuations.

My best friend used to be a public school teacher in our city. She experienced the same (and worse). Her daughter is a year older than ours and she sent her to private. We did the same and have been very happy.

My now-3rd grader had a safety plan in 1st grade because she had a friend who would target her during extreme behavioral situations and throw/hurl things her way. She would have to self-evacuate to the classroom across the hall. This was at a private school, so the only difference from public is that they could counsel the girl out- but it took 6 months because there wasn’t a strong framework for escalating intervention as there might be in a public school. She ended up in a special behavioral support classroom in our zoned public.

I don’t think private or public is a magic solution; many kids everywhere are in a bad place.

What? Your private school sucks then. Our school has expelled students in a single day due to behavior.

Legally it is very difficult for any private to break a contract in a day unless they have a super restrictive handbook. If your school has a handbook that is specific enough to allow it to expel a child in a day, the behavioral code was probably rewritten in response to similar past incidents. I promise our handbook has changed significantly over the past 2 years.

Throwing/hurling things at a person that then strike that person should have been enough. Of course that happens on accident or sometimes even once on purpose, but this doesn't sound like that. From your description of what was going on, a reasonable school should have had grounds to get rid of that child.

They did get rid of them- but it took enough documented incidents to hit the 3 strikes of physical contact incidents that were in the handbook at the time. There was a period during which teachers weren’t documenting and assumed it was a one-off and incidents were happening in specials and not being tracked across the board by the division head.

It was surprising to me how hard it was for the school to see the big picture of what my DD experienced every day, but that speaks to the post-Covid chaos of schools. One kid with troubles would have stood out before 2020, but when there are lots of kids with problems it takes careful tracking to figure out which are ongoing and big.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’ll say that I have been a teacher a long time and I am now drowning. The level of dysregulation, aggression, impatience, and argumentativeness is greater than I’ve seen before.

I have a family member who retired early because of the kids' behavior (she taught 2-4 depending). She LOVED teaching when she got into it but over the years she said she has just seen the kids deteriorate to the point where if she had three kids in a class who showed up to school well-rested, well-fed (not packed with sugar etc) well-disciplined, and ready to learn, it was a miracle.

[Anonymous]

First grade teacher in McPS here: I have excellent classroom management, kids have behavior and academic goals posted and we do weekly check-ins. We were able to involve parents and have awesome projects like a lemonade stand, goods and services store, growing a school garden, and building gingerbread houses. A lot of it is about expectations and involving parents in a positive way. I DO have a few kids who have special needs and do have eruptive behaviors at times but we have a protocol for that and it is based off of scientific knowledge for emotional re-regulation and I use calming music, textured fabrics, and allow stimming to help those kids. We teachers have to really investigate, research, implement, and keep a lot of data on all of these children with needs often with no support. I applied for grants to get electronic communication boards for my two special needs kids and it took about of persistence to get them. We teachers are trying our very best but sometimes even that is not enough.

[Anonymous]

I wish parents in my school would be involved but they show no interest in their kids while they are at school. They won't answer the phone, Dojo messages, notes in take home folders, etc. I totally understand why many kids act out. I'd probably do it too just to get some attention. The problem is that it used to be 1-2 kids in a class like this but not it easily 1/4 of the class and sometimes more.

[Anonymous]

Our private Montessori did dismiss a child for behavioral issues. However I think they must have gotten pushback because the next year it was an anything goes approach to cursing, bullying, hitting teachers , etc

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Sometimes you just get stuck with a really bad cohort and the terrible thing is that it lasts for six years in elementary school. Third grade in my school is particularly bad too. I definitely think it’s some lingering Covid effects.

I don’t buy Covid excuses. These third graders have been in school for over 2 years now

But the 3rd graders missed out on K, where the majority of behavioral expectations are set. They likely didn’t learn much in K either, so 1st and 2nd were a lot of catch up work. If you consider that they missed K, and then 1st was a bunch of makeup work and basic expectation setting for kids who hadn’t been in a group setting in many months … they’re probably still dealing with some after effects and will continue to do so.

The COVID card is expired, folks. You’re going to have to find a new excuse. DP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is what happens when you promote inclusivity and don't have enough money to provide aides and pull outs for the children with behavioral and language issues. They go hand in hand but nobody is willing to fund it.

This is what happens when parents no longer do their job. Didn't need to used to have an army of people to keep order in school. Why should we fund schools for this when we could simply bring back discipline and consequences. Call the parents to come pick their kids up when they act up and watch how fast those kids get with the program.

This. Watch what a large percentage of the kids whose parents claim they “can’t control it” somehow find a way to behave much better when they become their parents’ problem all day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teacher here: most kids lack good families to raise them…this is the result.

So are millennial/Gen-X parents just really poor parents compared to their boomer parents? Is that really what it comes down to? I just don't recall my friends parents being super-involved in the 80s either, there were lots of latchkey kids. But the vast majority weren't going apesh-t at school.

When Gen X parents got called by school, their kids were in Big Trouble when they got home in 99% of cases. Now when parents are called, it’s a litany of excuses, teacher-blaming or “he’s your problem while he’s at school. Stop calling me.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teacher here: most kids lack good families to raise them…this is the result.

So are millennial/Gen-X parents just really poor parents compared to their boomer parents? Is that really what it comes down to? I just don't recall my friends parents being super-involved in the 80s either, there were lots of latchkey kids. But the vast majority weren't going apesh-t at school.

This is what I don't get. My parents were SUPER lax in the 80s. They didn't teach me manners, they hardly taught me anything. We had a "go outside and play and come home when it gets dark" upbringing. I feel like I learned manners sort of through osmosis at school? Also there were strict expectations at school -- you had to say please and thank you, you couldn't talk back, if you fought with other kids, you'd get in trouble. Not corporal punishment but like detention or sent to the principal. We didn't want those things so we complied.

I think one reason my parents did so little parenting is that we got it at school. I remember being taught to tie my shoes and brush my teeth in preschool. My parents definitely didn't teach me those things. My parents were so lax that stuff the schools didn't teach me (like swimming and riding a bike), I simply didn't learn. But I have good manners. Though not with my parents! I used to talk back to my parents so much! Never to teachers, but my parents were so lax I could say anything to them and never really got in trouble. Or sometimes I'd get in trouble but only after they said worse things to me than I said them, so I didn't learn anything. Again, I learned it at school.

Not saying millennial/Gen X parents don't have issues with parenting. But I can tell you I spend way more time actually parenting than my parents did. I've tought my kid all kinds of stuff that my parents never discussed with me, including stuff like polite manners, keeping hands to yourself, walking away from conflicts rather than engaging, being respectful to teachers and other minders, etc. Also practical things like how to brush teeth or tie shoes. Schools don't teach this stuff anymore, not even the expensive private preschool I sent my kid to for ages 3 and 4. Schools want kids to show up with this knowledge. They also expected my kid to show up with basic literacy skills for K, so I taught that too.

Not the PP, but I definitely think the shifting expectations at school has not helped. In the 80s we all went to half day kindergarten and spent most of the day playing, not sitting. Those who complain about kids not being able to sit still should take a step back and ask how we got here rather than just blame it on parents. Maybe kindergarten and 1st grade shouldn’t be so intense to begin with.

No, sorry. Plenty of kids are succeeding in kindergarten. They aren’t asked to “sit still” nonstop all day. Many kids can do and are doing what the teacher asks of them.

It’s parenting.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:My child is in 3rd grade at a private religious school across the going from DC. While not every moment is quite as you describe it, u found myself nodding along at so many things you wrote. Many of my DD’s schoolmates (not her classmates) are rude, spoiled little sh-ts.

Her grade itself was extremely disregulated in 1st and 2nd grade and she suffered from both the chaos and the group punishments. She regularly lost an extra recess or a special Friday activity because the same kids would blow off consequences over and over and they wouldn’t earn their points for the week.

When I am at her school, I notice several things:

1) no individual punishment. Individual “consequences” are usually things like having to talk things through with a teacher or counselor. When we were kids, individual consequences started with sitting in the hallway and escalated to detention, the principles office, and calls home. Calls home for discipline are no longer a thing.

2) extreme lack of fine motor skills for age. The grade is divided into kids who would be considered competent when I was little who other kids now considered “artistic”, and kids who need a ton of OT. I think this is a Covid thing; they were hybrid that year in pre-k and then K.

3) kids don’t sit still. When we were little, there might be only one kid constantly hopping in and out of his seat and trying to go to the hallway, and he would be punished. Accomodation of different learning styles means that kids are allowed to wriggle and move and just walk away. I can’t volunteer in the classroom because the kids standing at their desks, leaning, wandering around, and just leaving makes me crazy. It’s visually exhausting and distracting.

Op here. YES to all of this. Especially the not sitting still. A small minority could sit there and do a simple craft. Most gave up the second they struggled and just walked off. Few sat at their desk to finish their snack as they were told.

The lack of individual consequences is so crazy. They are letting the behavior kids ruin the day to day or the well behaved kids. Alllllll I hear about is their scores at lunch and specials. And it’s the same kids acting up to get them bad scores. My DD even tried reasoning with these kids to get them to behave at least so others don’t get in trouble and of course she got nowhere.

This sounds like poor classroom management. Even a few out of control kids is one thing, but if only a "small minority" can sit and do their activity, then that means the teacher hasn't properly set expectations and doesn't have the skills to keep the classroom under control. Then they carry that behaviors into their specials and lunch. Your 8 year old shouldn't feel like she has to reason with them, she should know the teacher has it and the adult in the room is responsible. She's also feeling the lack of classroom management, but just isn't acting out.

When one teacher has these issues, it may just be the teacher but the OP mentioned that the class has behavior issues with the special area teachers too. Trust me. The students we have now are not the same kids we had when I first started teaching ten years ago. I had a kindergartener slap another student a few days ago. He came back from the office with the administrator and a donut. Lovely. Had that happened ten years ago, that kid would’ve been sent home and not allowed back unless a parent conference occurred.

Absolute insanity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s almost as if screens were designed to be addictive. But wait, let’s blame individuals instead!

I hope the backlash again big tech takes off soon. I think we’re getting there.

If only kids had parents. Oh wait. Good news! They do.