Safe schools for a Jewish kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No doubt there is a boatload of antisemitism rearing its ugly head right now but I feel like we should note the difference between antisemitism and antizionism.

Thank you for taking every opportunity to point this out, every time a Jewish person mentions antisemitism. It’s really vital to keep putting us in our place, and I’m sure you do the same thing for all minorities who experience hatred. Thanks again for your good work.

DP, but several posts on this thread have portrayed antizionist protests and statements as antisemitic, when they are different. A college professor expressing objections to the Israeli government and Israeli policy with regards to Palestinians is not being antisemitic, and yet several posts in this thread have described it that way.

Several posts in this thread have also said that there have been protests on college campuses calling for the murder or extermination of Jews. If that were true, it would indeed be a terrible thing. But it is not true. There have been protests on college campuses objecting to Israeli occupation of Gaza, arguing for both a two-state solution and in some cases for the elimination of the Jewish state. What happens is that people then extrapolate that they believe those positions and proposals would result in Jewish deaths. I agree in some cases! But that does not mean that the people making these arguments are anti-semitic. It means that they are oppose Israel, not Jews.

If you don't want people popping up in every thread explaining the difference between antizionism and antisemitism, then please stop calling people who express objections to the far right Israeli government and their concerning policies as "antisemitic."

couldn't it also be that they aren't at all anti-semitic, but arguing for better treatment of palestinians? to me protesting having people not be able to escape while bombing the $hit out of that territory does NOT = anti-semitic.

Yes, I agree. Also, I'm the PP and I want to apologize -- where I wrote "occupation of Gaza" I meant "attacks on Gaza." I misspoke and wanted to clarify.

[Anonymous]

I think the problem is rooted in the fact that Israel exists as a Jewish state, as opposed to a state that happens to contain a Jewish majority.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No doubt there is a boatload of antisemitism rearing its ugly head right now but I feel like we should note the difference between antisemitism and antizionism.

Thank you for taking every opportunity to point this out, every time a Jewish person mentions antisemitism. It’s really vital to keep putting us in our place, and I’m sure you do the same thing for all minorities who experience hatred. Thanks again for your good work.

DP, but several posts on this thread have portrayed antizionist protests and statements as antisemitic, when they are different. A college professor expressing objections to the Israeli government and Israeli policy with regards to Palestinians is not being antisemitic, and yet several posts in this thread have described it that way.

Several posts in this thread have also said that there have been protests on college campuses calling for the murder or extermination of Jews. If that were true, it would indeed be a terrible thing. But it is not true. There have been protests on college campuses objecting to Israeli occupation of Gaza, arguing for both a two-state solution and in some cases for the elimination of the Jewish state. What happens is that people then extrapolate that they believe those positions and proposals would result in Jewish deaths. I agree in some cases! But that does not mean that the people making these arguments are anti-semitic. It means that they are oppose Israel, not Jews.

If you don't want people popping up in every thread explaining the difference between antizionism and antisemitism, then please stop calling people who express objections to the far right Israeli government and their concerning policies as "antisemitic."

Antizionist protests and statements are antisemitic. Your assertion that they are not does not make it true.

Objections to the Israeli government and its policies are not antizionist.

Lastly, Israel does not occupy Gaza and withdrew from the settlements in 2005.

You may find an antizionist statement to be antisemitic. But there are people who do not wish any harm to Jewish people and still don't think Israel should exist, or that if it exists, and should not exist as a Jewish state. You might say, but the elimination of Israel would de facto result in harm to Jewish people. I might agree with you. But the quagmire of mideast politics does not allow for easy black and white answer to these questions.

The alignment of Jewish interests with Israeli interests is a problem for both Jews and those who support Palestinians for humanitarian reasons. Because the Israeli government currently and historically has done many terrible things in the name of preserving the Jewish state. For Zionists, these actions can be considered justified because of the hostility towards Israel in the region. Certainly Israel is not a welcome entity in the region.

The argument of the current Israeli government (and many past Israeli governments) is that their hard line and the killing of Palestinians, including many innocent civilians, is necessary to preserve the existence of the state. This is their argument, not mine. So you cannot perfectly separate anti-Zionism from opposition to the current Israeli government and its policies. That government explicitly argues that these policies are necessary to ensure the survival of a Jewish state in a hostile region. I honestly don't know if that's true or not. Does anyone?

There are very few black and white truths in this situation. But yes, a person could argue against the existence of Israel without wishing any harm to Jews. It is not a practical position, but it's a possible one. Just as it is also possible for someone to believe the existence of Israel is necessary to the the survival of the Jewish people and also argue that Israel's treatment of Palestinians is unacceptable. And it's possible to argue that Hamas is an anti-semitic terrorist organization that murders Jewish people, but also to argue that not all Palestinians who give or receive support to Hamas hate Jews -- some of them are doing it for their own protection and survival.

I know, this conversation SUCKS. It feels impossible all the time. Everything is a minefield. But trying to impose one side's black and white absolutes on the more nuanced positions of the many people caught in the middle does not resolve anything. It just heightens conflict and makes everyone less safe.

“Nuance” is your pseudo-intellectual effort to traffic in antisemitism.

Here is a black and white fact for you: if the Arab states and Muslims put down their arms against Israel, there would be peace. If Israel put down their arms, Jews would be slaughtered and Israel would be gone.

I don't disagree with you. But what this means is that as long as Israel exists as a Jewish state in the Mid-East, there will be conflict and death. For people who oppose conflict and death, this poses a problem. Which is why I don't consider anti-zionism to be de facto anti-semitic.

More pseudo-intellectual sophistry in service of anti-semitism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'd report 75%+ of these posts for being off-topic and abusive.

Abusive? So everything you don't agree with is abusive? Don't start highly charged threads under the guise of concern if you can't stand to read the responses.

I'm not OP. I'm advising OP to get Jeff to clean up this thread because most posts are off-topic and/or abusive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree. Cornell grad here, and a month ago I’d have sworn that Cornell would be a safe place for a Jewish person without giving it a second thought. I am absolutely shocked as to what is happening there now. Shocked and appalled.

Has anything else happened aside from the professor and online threats?

I'm very glad to hear that the NY state police and FBI are on it:
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/fbi-investigating-antisemitic-threats-targeting-cornell-universitys-jewish/story?id=104480004

"Earlier today, law enforcement identified a person of interest as part of the investigation and this individual is currently in custody of the New York State Police for questioning."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the problem is rooted in the fact that Israel exists as a Jewish state, as opposed to a state that happens to contain a Jewish majority.

Yes, you aren't alone in this, but also lots of people will tell you the there is no way to have a significant population of Jews in the Middle East with out a Jewish state. And as the PP explained, the belief is that a Jewish state that is not aggressively militaristic would be quickly annihilated.

Which is what leads some people to argue that Israel must exist as a Jewish state and that we must support it even when it commits it kills innocent civilians, because the alternative is no Israel at all. And it leads others to conclude that there should be no Israel at all. But since saying that Israel should not exist at all is defect anti-Semitic, then Israel must exist. And around and around.

It is an impossible conversation. Anyone who tells you it's clear or simple is lying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What schools in Virginia are safe for a Jewish girl??

I just want to say I am sorry that you have to ask this question. I don’t think it is crazy FYI. I don’t have a Va answer (not any information that I am familiar with) but Catholic schools tend to be very supportive and always have had a strong Jewish community. Boston College is less churchy than Notre Dame FWIW

You mention BC but I'd emphasize that BC is Jesuit and those universities in particular are supportive and encourage communication and understanding across cultures, religions, nations.

Agree that Catholic schools are a good choice, as they all are supportive and encourage communication and understanding across cultures, religions, nations, and politics.

Re: ND in particular, Notre Dame is home to the Kroc Institute of International Peace Studies. The lecture on the current situation was standing room only. https://kroc.nd.edu/news-events/ It's statement: https://ndsmcobserver.com/2023/10/an-open-letter-for-peace-from-the-kroc-institute/

ND Jewish Club: https://notredameday.nd.edu/organizations/jewish-club-of-notre-dame

Also, ND has had a longstanding program in Israel: https://ndsmcobserver.com/2023/10/from-the-archives-notre-dame-in-jerusalem/

Old article on Jewish students at ND through history, including several Rabbis. https://sites.nd.edu/ndarchives/jewish-students-at-notre-dame/ adn a more recent OpEd: https://www.jewishoncampus.org/media/jewish-on-a-catholic-campus-the-joc-ambassador-programs-impact-at-notre-dame

Do non-Christians get to opt out of the two required Christian-based theology classes?
https://theology.nd.edu/about/the-university-requirement-for-theology/

Can't speak to ND but at Jesuit schools, the 2 theology course requirement is not a Christian-based theology requirement. There are many choices and are often akin to history or philosophy courses where the subject explores a particular religion or a set of religions.

I was surprised to read that the ND requirement is so focused on the New Testament.

I wonder if it was always like that or if it's become more deeply "Catholic" in recent years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the problem is rooted in the fact that Israel exists as a Jewish state, as opposed to a state that happens to contain a Jewish majority.

Crap, hit "enter" too early.

The Palestinian Authority recognizes Israel's right to exist - within it's 1967 borders, but not as an exclusively Jewish state. Continued expansion into the West Bank has been a flash point for decades and the current administration seems hell-bent on more of the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What schools in Virginia are safe for a Jewish girl??

I just want to say I am sorry that you have to ask this question. I don’t think it is crazy FYI. I don’t have a Va answer (not any information that I am familiar with) but Catholic schools tend to be very supportive and always have had a strong Jewish community. Boston College is less churchy than Notre Dame FWIW

You mention BC but I'd emphasize that BC is Jesuit and those universities in particular are supportive and encourage communication and understanding across cultures, religions, nations.

Agree that Catholic schools are a good choice, as they all are supportive and encourage communication and understanding across cultures, religions, nations, and politics.

Re: ND in particular, Notre Dame is home to the Kroc Institute of International Peace Studies. The lecture on the current situation was standing room only. https://kroc.nd.edu/news-events/ It's statement: https://ndsmcobserver.com/2023/10/an-open-letter-for-peace-from-the-kroc-institute/

ND Jewish Club: https://notredameday.nd.edu/organizations/jewish-club-of-notre-dame

Also, ND has had a longstanding program in Israel: https://ndsmcobserver.com/2023/10/from-the-archives-notre-dame-in-jerusalem/

Old article on Jewish students at ND through history, including several Rabbis. https://sites.nd.edu/ndarchives/jewish-students-at-notre-dame/ adn a more recent OpEd: https://www.jewishoncampus.org/media/jewish-on-a-catholic-campus-the-joc-ambassador-programs-impact-at-notre-dame

Do non-Christians get to opt out of the two required Christian-based theology classes?
https://theology.nd.edu/about/the-university-requirement-for-theology/

No.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What schools in Virginia are safe for a Jewish girl??

I just want to say I am sorry that you have to ask this question. I don’t think it is crazy FYI. I don’t have a Va answer (not any information that I am familiar with) but Catholic schools tend to be very supportive and always have had a strong Jewish community. Boston College is less churchy than Notre Dame FWIW

You mention BC but I'd emphasize that BC is Jesuit and those universities in particular are supportive and encourage communication and understanding across cultures, religions, nations.

Agree that Catholic schools are a good choice, as they all are supportive and encourage communication and understanding across cultures, religions, nations, and politics.

Re: ND in particular, Notre Dame is home to the Kroc Institute of International Peace Studies. The lecture on the current situation was standing room only. https://kroc.nd.edu/news-events/ It's statement: https://ndsmcobserver.com/2023/10/an-open-letter-for-peace-from-the-kroc-institute/

ND Jewish Club: https://notredameday.nd.edu/organizations/jewish-club-of-notre-dame

Also, ND has had a longstanding program in Israel: https://ndsmcobserver.com/2023/10/from-the-archives-notre-dame-in-jerusalem/

Old article on Jewish students at ND through history, including several Rabbis. https://sites.nd.edu/ndarchives/jewish-students-at-notre-dame/ adn a more recent OpEd: https://www.jewishoncampus.org/media/jewish-on-a-catholic-campus-the-joc-ambassador-programs-impact-at-notre-dame

Do non-Christians get to opt out of the two required Christian-based theology classes?
https://theology.nd.edu/about/the-university-requirement-for-theology/

Can't speak to ND but at Jesuit schools, the 2 theology course requirement is not a Christian-based theology requirement. There are many choices and are often akin to history or philosophy courses where the subject explores a particular religion or a set of religions.

Have you really studied what the core requirements are at every single Jesuit school? They are not all the same. Also, Jesuits are Catholics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here’s the perspective of myself and several Jewish people I know. We are horrified by the October 7 terrorist attacks. We are also horrified by the loss of life of innocent Palestinians. We are not safe in a world with Hamas and they are hiding in Gaza behind innocent civilians. This is a no-win situation. We want more humanitarian aid for the people of Gaza. We don’t understand why Egypt isn’t allowing Palestinians through the Rafa crossing and Muslim countries aren’t allowing them to immigrate. We believe Palestinians have the right to live in peace and would like to see Hamas wiped out and then have those Palestinians seeking peace return to live a safer and better life. We find it difficult to hear students saying innocent Israelis had this coming but that is the official stance of these groups protesting. I would never ever say innocent Palestinians had anything coming. Every innocent life is valuable. Every single one. What my kids have a problem with is the hate crimes around their campus. People targeting others purely for their religion. People defacing their dorm room doors with offensive images and language. They do not feel safe.

I'm also Jewish and these are my sentiments exactly.

I wish people would stop thinking they need to "choose a side" between the Israeli government's appalling treatment of Palestinians and Hamas's terrorism. The US government had a hand in this too, and I don't see anyone condemning themselves for the loss of life on either side.

Because the US government has been responsible for suffering foreign and domestic pretty much forever and people don't know what to say anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What schools in Virginia are safe for a Jewish girl??

I just want to say I am sorry that you have to ask this question. I don’t think it is crazy FYI. I don’t have a Va answer (not any information that I am familiar with) but Catholic schools tend to be very supportive and always have had a strong Jewish community. Boston College is less churchy than Notre Dame FWIW

You mention BC but I'd emphasize that BC is Jesuit and those universities in particular are supportive and encourage communication and understanding across cultures, religions, nations.

Agree that Catholic schools are a good choice, as they all are supportive and encourage communication and understanding across cultures, religions, nations, and politics.

Re: ND in particular, Notre Dame is home to the Kroc Institute of International Peace Studies. The lecture on the current situation was standing room only. https://kroc.nd.edu/news-events/ It's statement: https://ndsmcobserver.com/2023/10/an-open-letter-for-peace-from-the-kroc-institute/

ND Jewish Club: https://notredameday.nd.edu/organizations/jewish-club-of-notre-dame

Also, ND has had a longstanding program in Israel: https://ndsmcobserver.com/2023/10/from-the-archives-notre-dame-in-jerusalem/

Old article on Jewish students at ND through history, including several Rabbis. https://sites.nd.edu/ndarchives/jewish-students-at-notre-dame/ adn a more recent OpEd: https://www.jewishoncampus.org/media/jewish-on-a-catholic-campus-the-joc-ambassador-programs-impact-at-notre-dame

Do non-Christians get to opt out of the two required Christian-based theology classes?
https://theology.nd.edu/about/the-university-requirement-for-theology/

Can't speak to ND but at Jesuit schools, the 2 theology course requirement is not a Christian-based theology requirement. There are many choices and are often akin to history or philosophy courses where the subject explores a particular religion or a set of religions.

I was surprised to read that the ND requirement is so focused on the New Testament.

I wonder if it was always like that or if it's become more deeply "Catholic" in recent years.

I don't think you can look at the title of the course and know what it is actually about. My DS took a class with New Testament in the title, but they actually studied Plato, Aristotle, Aquinas, the geographic and historic context of the life of Jesus, and the study of how, when, and by whom the New Testament texts were written. Fascinating course.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No doubt there is a boatload of antisemitism rearing its ugly head right now but I feel like we should note the difference between antisemitism and antizionism.

Thank you for taking every opportunity to point this out, every time a Jewish person mentions antisemitism. It’s really vital to keep putting us in our place, and I’m sure you do the same thing for all minorities who experience hatred. Thanks again for your good work.

DP, but several posts on this thread have portrayed antizionist protests and statements as antisemitic, when they are different. A college professor expressing objections to the Israeli government and Israeli policy with regards to Palestinians is not being antisemitic, and yet several posts in this thread have described it that way.

Several posts in this thread have also said that there have been protests on college campuses calling for the murder or extermination of Jews. If that were true, it would indeed be a terrible thing. But it is not true. There have been protests on college campuses objecting to Israeli occupation of Gaza, arguing for both a two-state solution and in some cases for the elimination of the Jewish state. What happens is that people then extrapolate that they believe those positions and proposals would result in Jewish deaths. I agree in some cases! But that does not mean that the people making these arguments are anti-semitic. It means that they are oppose Israel, not Jews.

If you don't want people popping up in every thread explaining the difference between antizionism and antisemitism, then please stop calling people who express objections to the far right Israeli government and their concerning policies as "antisemitic."

couldn't it also be that they aren't at all anti-semitic, but arguing for better treatment of palestinians? to me protesting having people not be able to escape while bombing the $hit out of that territory does NOT = anti-semitic.

Yes, I agree. Also, I'm the PP and I want to apologize -- where I wrote "occupation of Gaza" I meant "attacks on Gaza." I misspoke and wanted to clarify.

attacks on gaza.
and there are tons of israeli settlers in land previously considered to belong to palestine.
it's so weird that pointing this out seems anti-semitic to some.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'd report 75%+ of these posts for being off-topic and abusive.

Abusive? So everything you don't agree with is abusive? Don't start highly charged threads under the guise of concern if you can't stand to read the responses.

This
It is like when posts yell "troll" when they read a comment they do not like or agree with. It is so self-serving on all accounts

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No doubt there is a boatload of antisemitism rearing its ugly head right now but I feel like we should note the difference between antisemitism and antizionism.

Thank you for taking every opportunity to point this out, every time a Jewish person mentions antisemitism. It’s really vital to keep putting us in our place, and I’m sure you do the same thing for all minorities who experience hatred. Thanks again for your good work.

DP, but several posts on this thread have portrayed antizionist protests and statements as antisemitic, when they are different. A college professor expressing objections to the Israeli government and Israeli policy with regards to Palestinians is not being antisemitic, and yet several posts in this thread have described it that way.

Several posts in this thread have also said that there have been protests on college campuses calling for the murder or extermination of Jews. If that were true, it would indeed be a terrible thing. But it is not true. There have been protests on college campuses objecting to Israeli occupation of Gaza, arguing for both a two-state solution and in some cases for the elimination of the Jewish state. What happens is that people then extrapolate that they believe those positions and proposals would result in Jewish deaths. I agree in some cases! But that does not mean that the people making these arguments are anti-semitic. It means that they are oppose Israel, not Jews.

If you don't want people popping up in every thread explaining the difference between antizionism and antisemitism, then please stop calling people who express objections to the far right Israeli government and their concerning policies as "antisemitic."

Antizionist protests and statements are antisemitic. Your assertion that they are not does not make it true.

Objections to the Israeli government and its policies are not antizionist.

Lastly, Israel does not occupy Gaza and withdrew from the settlements in 2005.

???????