At what point do we pull the plug?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m sorry, but you don’t seem to have a good grasp of the strengths and weaknesses of most AAP ES students.

While there could be somewhere some who are failing, I haven’t met parents of any failing AAP students just yet. No one I talked with feels there is a need for supplementing either.

Math enrichment at our school implies learning math outside of the school altogether and often in an environment that is far more demanding and comprehensive than the AAP school math itself. These are the kids that go to regional and international competitions. The stronger the group of the students, the more likely is your “exclusively-learning-at-school” kid to “struggle - as compared to the rest of the class” (as in not get 100%, or get a 3 instead of a 4) when teacher bypasses instruction simply because majority of students learned the topic somewhere else.

By the time Middle School comes, the knowledge gap becomes an obstacle to take higher level math courses. And this is not because your kid did not pay attention, but because they were expected to learn many concepts outside of the school and their parents thought they can just rely on the school.

As a matter of fact, I would argue that if you are not doing any enrichment, you shouldn’t do AAP math at all because they are flying over some important math concepts that are covered at a better pace in GenEd. By the time your kid reaches Middle School they will have to go back to the same level of math courses as kids who did not attend AAP program at all. But, you do you.

I know where you are coming from and know some who feel that way.

Almost everyone who take AOPS or RSM in the hopes of doing well in competitions fade out by late middle school. I do agree they tend to do rather well upto that point around AMC 8 to AMC 10. They bomb out in AIME and AJMO/AMO. There is a reason for that. Dont let all the IMO team are in AOPS WOOT BS fool you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m sorry, but you don’t seem to have a good grasp of the strengths and weaknesses of most AAP ES students.

While there could be somewhere some who are failing, I haven’t met parents of any failing AAP students just yet. No one I talked with feels there is a need for supplementing either.

Math enrichment at our school implies learning math outside of the school altogether and often in an environment that is far more demanding and comprehensive than the AAP school math itself. These are the kids that go to regional and international competitions. The stronger the group of the students, the more likely is your “exclusively-learning-at-school” kid to “struggle - as compared to the rest of the class” (as in not get 100%, or get a 3 instead of a 4) when teacher bypasses instruction simply because majority of students learned the topic somewhere else.

By the time Middle School comes, the knowledge gap becomes an obstacle to take higher level math courses. And this is not because your kid did not pay attention, but because they were expected to learn many concepts outside of the school and their parents thought they can just rely on the school.

As a matter of fact, I would argue that if you are not doing any enrichment, you shouldn’t do AAP math at all because they are flying over some important math concepts that are covered at a better pace in GenEd. By the time your kid reaches Middle School they will have to go back to the same level of math courses as kids who did not attend AAP program at all. But, you do you.

I know where you are coming from and know some who feel that way.

Almost everyone who take AOPS or RSM in the hopes of doing well in competitions fade out by late middle school. I do agree they tend to do rather well upto that point around AMC 8 to AMC 10. They bomb out in AIME and AJMO/AMO. There is a reason for that. Dont let all the IMO team are in AOPS WOOT BS fool you.

I am the PP you responded to.

Do you mind to elaborate? I am genuinely curious and don’t know anything about benefits/or lack of benefits of acceleration and enrichment pass middle school. Why do kids bomb out at a later point? Does it not matter to them anymore (because they got to a school of their dreams?) or is is that they cannot keep up?

I never expected AAP math to be what it is at our center school, and aside from having to do the “proper” learning part elsewhere, I like our teachers and the school in general. I find it interesting that our school is an outlier compared to an experience of some of the posters here (at least in terms of quizzes and videos to check where the students are before deciding how much instruction is necessary).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m sorry, but you don’t seem to have a good grasp of the strengths and weaknesses of most AAP ES students.

While there could be somewhere some who are failing, I haven’t met parents of any failing AAP students just yet. No one I talked with feels there is a need for supplementing either.

Math enrichment at our school implies learning math outside of the school altogether and often in an environment that is far more demanding and comprehensive than the AAP school math itself. These are the kids that go to regional and international competitions. The stronger the group of the students, the more likely is your “exclusively-learning-at-school” kid to “struggle - as compared to the rest of the class” (as in not get 100%, or get a 3 instead of a 4) when teacher bypasses instruction simply because majority of students learned the topic somewhere else.

By the time Middle School comes, the knowledge gap becomes an obstacle to take higher level math courses. And this is not because your kid did not pay attention, but because they were expected to learn many concepts outside of the school and their parents thought they can just rely on the school.

As a matter of fact, I would argue that if you are not doing any enrichment, you shouldn’t do AAP math at all because they are flying over some important math concepts that are covered at a better pace in GenEd. By the time your kid reaches Middle School they will have to go back to the same level of math courses as kids who did not attend AAP program at all. But, you do you.

I know where you are coming from and know some who feel that way.

Almost everyone who take AOPS or RSM in the hopes of doing well in competitions fade out by late middle school. I do agree they tend to do rather well upto that point around AMC 8 to AMC 10. They bomb out in AIME and AJMO/AMO. There is a reason for that. Dont let all the IMO team are in AOPS WOOT BS fool you.

I am the PP you responded to.

Do you mind to elaborate? I am genuinely curious and don’t know anything about benefits/or lack of benefits of acceleration and enrichment pass middle school. Why do kids bomb out at a later point? Does it not matter to them anymore (because they got to a school of their dreams?) or is is that they cannot keep up?

I never expected AAP math to be what it is at our center school, and aside from having to do the “proper” learning part elsewhere, I like our teachers and the school in general. I find it interesting that our school is an outlier compared to an experience of some of the posters here (at least in terms of quizzes and videos to check where the students are before deciding how much instruction is necessary).

DP. The reason PP is saying they bomb out is mostly because they were pushed/forced by their parents into way too many activities with almost no time to play. Sure, AoPS and other enrichment classes were good for them and helped them do well in elementary and some middle school levels, but once the kids got to high school they realized they liked to do other stuff and didn't have to be controlled by their parents. This is particularly true for many TJ hopefuls many of whom were unduly stressed so that parents could laud them in their family and friends circles... This is even true for some kids who make it into TJ; they were pushed to a large degree against their will, that when they get there and realize they are not the best and possibly even below average, become tired and demotivated from continuing to "grind" it out all for college admissions. At that point they're smart enough to realize that their parents value them more for what they can achieve vs who they are.

They may be capable of keeping up, but their desire was lost by being forced to do stuff when they should have had a bit more play time. It's the academics analogy to the kids who are pushed to travel teams for hours almost every day of the week because of their parents sports obsession.

I'm not saying it's true for all kids, but there is a large portion of kids who went through years of enrichment and while they benefited from it, it did not motivate or increase their desire and love for learning, and the biggest factor was that they were simply overscheduled and didn't have time to relax, be a little bored, and just play. They were forced to study and compete to such a degree, that they literally have no memory of authentic play.

It's fairly obvious that balancing prep and play without turning it into a joyless exercise is key, so that way kids get a chance to actually enjoy learning and find their own drive. But many parents who are obsessed with TJ don't see it that way; they believe their kids have to constantly be pushed. They fail to realize that at a certain level (i.e high school AMCs, AIME and beyond) it's impossible to push their kids. If the kids aren't motivated or curious by that time, it is impossible for them to continue that path by external pressure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m sorry, but you don’t seem to have a good grasp of the strengths and weaknesses of most AAP ES students.

While there could be somewhere some who are failing, I haven’t met parents of any failing AAP students just yet. No one I talked with feels there is a need for supplementing either.

Math enrichment at our school implies learning math outside of the school altogether and often in an environment that is far more demanding and comprehensive than the AAP school math itself. These are the kids that go to regional and international competitions. The stronger the group of the students, the more likely is your “exclusively-learning-at-school” kid to “struggle - as compared to the rest of the class” (as in not get 100%, or get a 3 instead of a 4) when teacher bypasses instruction simply because majority of students learned the topic somewhere else.

By the time Middle School comes, the knowledge gap becomes an obstacle to take higher level math courses. And this is not because your kid did not pay attention, but because they were expected to learn many concepts outside of the school and their parents thought they can just rely on the school.

As a matter of fact, I would argue that if you are not doing any enrichment, you shouldn’t do AAP math at all because they are flying over some important math concepts that are covered at a better pace in GenEd. By the time your kid reaches Middle School they will have to go back to the same level of math courses as kids who did not attend AAP program at all. But, you do you.

I know where you are coming from and know some who feel that way.

Almost everyone who take AOPS or RSM in the hopes of doing well in competitions fade out by late middle school. I do agree they tend to do rather well upto that point around AMC 8 to AMC 10. They bomb out in AIME and AJMO/AMO. There is a reason for that. Dont let all the IMO team are in AOPS WOOT BS fool you.

Sure, but the kids taking AoPS or RSM because they love math are still going strong far into high school. Kids usually fade out around late middle school or early high school for any activity that they're only doing because their parents are forcing them.

[Anonymous]

Even if your kid doesn't find a passion for math or an instrument or a sport, it doesn't mean that the enrichment was worthless. A lot of kids discover that they don't like playing the violin or participating in soccer or whatever around late middle school. As long as the parent isn't pushing too hard at the beginning or refusing to let their 8th grader quit an activity, trying things to see what sticks is fine.

AoPS or RSM will give a strong foundation to ES kids. They might enjoy contests when they're younger. After a point, they'll either love math and be well set up for advanced courses or competitions, or they'll fade out and pursue other interests while still having a strong foundational grasp of the math. Both outcomes are fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m sorry, but you don’t seem to have a good grasp of the strengths and weaknesses of most AAP ES students.

While there could be somewhere some who are failing, I haven’t met parents of any failing AAP students just yet. No one I talked with feels there is a need for supplementing either.

Math enrichment at our school implies learning math outside of the school altogether and often in an environment that is far more demanding and comprehensive than the AAP school math itself. These are the kids that go to regional and international competitions. The stronger the group of the students, the more likely is your “exclusively-learning-at-school” kid to “struggle - as compared to the rest of the class” (as in not get 100%, or get a 3 instead of a 4) when teacher bypasses instruction simply because majority of students learned the topic somewhere else.

By the time Middle School comes, the knowledge gap becomes an obstacle to take higher level math courses. And this is not because your kid did not pay attention, but because they were expected to learn many concepts outside of the school and their parents thought they can just rely on the school.

As a matter of fact, I would argue that if you are not doing any enrichment, you shouldn’t do AAP math at all because they are flying over some important math concepts that are covered at a better pace in GenEd. By the time your kid reaches Middle School they will have to go back to the same level of math courses as kids who did not attend AAP program at all. But, you do you.

I know where you are coming from and know some who feel that way.

Almost everyone who take AOPS or RSM in the hopes of doing well in competitions fade out by late middle school. I do agree they tend to do rather well upto that point around AMC 8 to AMC 10. They bomb out in AIME and AJMO/AMO. There is a reason for that. Dont let all the IMO team are in AOPS WOOT BS fool you.

I am the PP you responded to.

Do you mind to elaborate? I am genuinely curious and don’t know anything about benefits/or lack of benefits of acceleration and enrichment pass middle school. Why do kids bomb out at a later point? Does it not matter to them anymore (because they got to a school of their dreams?) or is is that they cannot keep up?

I never expected AAP math to be what it is at our center school, and aside from having to do the “proper” learning part elsewhere, I like our teachers and the school in general. I find it interesting that our school is an outlier compared to an experience of some of the posters here (at least in terms of quizzes and videos to check where the students are before deciding how much instruction is necessary).

DP. The reason PP is saying they bomb out is mostly because they were pushed/forced by their parents into way too many activities with almost no time to play. Sure, AoPS and other enrichment classes were good for them and helped them do well in elementary and some middle school levels, but once the kids got to high school they realized they liked to do other stuff and didn't have to be controlled by their parents. This is particularly true for many TJ hopefuls many of whom were unduly stressed so that parents could laud them in their family and friends circles... This is even true for some kids who make it into TJ; they were pushed to a large degree against their will, that when they get there and realize they are not the best and possibly even below average, become tired and demotivated from continuing to "grind" it out all for college admissions. At that point they're smart enough to realize that their parents value them more for what they can achieve vs who they are.

They may be capable of keeping up, but their desire was lost by being forced to do stuff when they should have had a bit more play time. It's the academics analogy to the kids who are pushed to travel teams for hours almost every day of the week because of their parents sports obsession.

I'm not saying it's true for all kids, but there is a large portion of kids who went through years of enrichment and while they benefited from it, it did not motivate or increase their desire and love for learning, and the biggest factor was that they were simply overscheduled and didn't have time to relax, be a little bored, and just play. They were forced to study and compete to such a degree, that they literally have no memory of authentic play.

It's fairly obvious that balancing prep and play without turning it into a joyless exercise is key, so that way kids get a chance to actually enjoy learning and find their own drive. But many parents who are obsessed with TJ don't see it that way; they believe their kids have to constantly be pushed. They fail to realize that at a certain level (i.e high school AMCs, AIME and beyond) it's impossible to push their kids. If the kids aren't motivated or curious by that time, it is impossible for them to continue that path by external pressure.

I agree with your concerns, to a point. I don't necessarily believe that overscheduling and a lack of downtime are "the biggest factor" that decides whether intrinsic drive is at the end of enrichment. For one, there are plenty of "slackers" whose parent don't enrich and yet they remain as unmotivated as they've always been.

For me, it's a question of providing for my child what I was given when I grew up: opportunities. Without outside enrichment, my child wouldn't have the same opportunities I had, thanks to the complete failure and math aversion in the public school system.

Children will sort themselves out, we did. And yes, only a handful are successful at challenging math competitions. Because as Barbie correctly opined, math is hard. And if it isn't to you, you're not doing it right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are quickly finding out that many parents who enrich their children do so NOT because their child is a stand-out in math. Rather by the simple act of enriching they make their kid stand out relative to other children who do not enrich.

Math is peculiar, especially when you get to Alg.2, trig, pre-calc, Calc BC, that NO matter how bright the child, that child will not KNOW the math until it is taught to them. If it is taught earlier than the normal sequence, then presto, your child is somehow "gifted' in math.

Any child with a normal intellect working OUTSIDE of school for 2-3 hours per week will have zero problems with Algebra I. Zero. It is all about the effort you want to make as a parent. Some prioritize it; others do not.

You probably already know this, but unless your kid is hooked, eg, first-generation, low-income, staying in the accelerated track is necessary for top 20 colleges, and really top 50.

Ha ha. You don't know what you're talking about.

We see plenty of attempts by non-gifted children to take enrichment classes who fail. Your "normal intellect" child will not be successful, for instance, in AoPS Algebra in 4th or 5th grade the way my gifted child was. We know this because some parents try and end up with children who
- drop out of AoPS/RSM (and go to remedial shops like Kumon/Mathnasium)
- even if they don't drop out, do not do well in those classes
- even if they manage to finish can master, at best, the braindead school Algebra courses but would fail immediately at actual problem solving

You seem to be in agreement with PP - enrichment helps all students, including "non-gifted children".

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is utterly exhausting.

So, the expectation now is I need to privately enroll my child in a class BEFORE they take the class to be successful in the class?

I was pretty against Alg. 1 in 7th grade with my 6th grader, but this whole approach is so frustrating. It all mimics my kid's experience in AAP -- the teachers expect these kids to have learned whatever concepts that were being taught for the first time "before" so class is actually just a quick review and assessment. and if they haven't, it's up to the student (i.e. their parents) to fill in the gaps.

Because most of the kids have learned the concepts before. By placing your child in AAP (and I am specifically talking about math here) you are placing your child into a program that is an entire grade level above what they are meant to be learning. It’s not accelerated. It’s not deeper understanding of concepts. It it literally a straight up jump from one year to the next. Which means if you want your kid to genuinely understand what is going on, you, as a parent, HAVE to fill in those gaps of learning. Whether it is via a tutor, RSM, a parent who just also happens to be a math teacher, whatever. You have to get them caught up. Then you have two types of kids/parents: the kids who stick with intensive math enrichment and the ones who don’t. Guess who is going to get left in the dust….

And then there are parent like myself. Kid was accepted to AAP without parents knowing much about the program. I asked and asked, even on this forum, whether there is anything we need to be aware of or try to prepare before the start of third grade. No one told me what you described (and what I am painfully aware of now). Most responses, even here on dcum, we’re in lines of “just read a lot, let your kid enjoy the summer, visit a library …”

We have caught up and doing math enrichment now, but it was so confusing in third grade why teachers were only showing short videos and then immediately doing tests. DC also struggled with concepts that were not that hard, but it was not DC’s math aptitude - the pace and lack of explanation at school was the issue. Only after a full school year, some of the parents opened up, and every single one of them had their child in Kumon, RSM or AoPS since Kindergarten. We are doing the same now and DC is doing great.

Parents should be somehow made aware. It’s not like we didn’t ask teachers and fellow parents before third grade.

Go mention the fact that everyone in your DC's class secretly supplements in other AAP/FCPS threads and see what response you get. You'll quickly understand why parents can be hesitant to share this fact. The presumption is that if you need to supplement, your kid never belonged in AAP to begin with.

("only parents whose kids are truly gifted and belong in AAP can see the Emperor's clothes")

Actually, it’s not that almost all AAP parents supplement, but that they almost all do enrichment. The two are not the same.

So, by the time kids reach 3rd grade, those who have already studied 3rd grade concepts outside of the school, are ok with AAP teachers doing quick video and then the test. Kids who are seeing the concepts for the first time in their life need proper instruction, not just the short video. This creates an artificial determination who is a good fit for AAP and who is not. It is detrimental to disadvantaged kids and those whose parents are clueless (like I was). By the time kids reach middle school, the gap widens, and both kids and parents who are not doing outside enrichment can get a false impression of lack of aptitude.

It seems like the kids who got enrichment (e.g. cryptarithms) would be in the latter group while those who just accelerated 3rd grade material somewhere like Kumon or Mathnasium would be in the former. How do you differentiate between enrichment and supplementation?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m sorry, but you don’t seem to have a good grasp of the strengths and weaknesses of most AAP ES students.

While there could be somewhere some who are failing, I haven’t met parents of any failing AAP students just yet. No one I talked with feels there is a need for supplementing either.

Math enrichment at our school implies learning math outside of the school altogether and often in an environment that is far more demanding and comprehensive than the AAP school math itself. These are the kids that go to regional and international competitions. The stronger the group of the students, the more likely is your “exclusively-learning-at-school” kid to “struggle - as compared to the rest of the class” (as in not get 100%, or get a 3 instead of a 4) when teacher bypasses instruction simply because majority of students learned the topic somewhere else.

By the time Middle School comes, the knowledge gap becomes an obstacle to take higher level math courses. And this is not because your kid did not pay attention, but because they were expected to learn many concepts outside of the school and their parents thought they can just rely on the school.

As a matter of fact, I would argue that if you are not doing any enrichment, you shouldn’t do AAP math at all because they are flying over some important math concepts that are covered at a better pace in GenEd. By the time your kid reaches Middle School they will have to go back to the same level of math courses as kids who did not attend AAP program at all. But, you do you.

This is truly nuts. As someone else posted, this isn't rocket science. It's 3rd 4th, 6th grade math. You "AOPS" "math competition" posters need to get over yourselves. And consider complaining about the lousy instruction from your DC's teachers.

I feel like the "AOPS" "math competition" posters would want to underestimate rather than overestimate the difficulty of AAP math - "AAP isn't really challenging the way AoPS/RSM/MOEMS is."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m sorry, but you don’t seem to have a good grasp of the strengths and weaknesses of most AAP ES students.

While there could be somewhere some who are failing, I haven’t met parents of any failing AAP students just yet. No one I talked with feels there is a need for supplementing either.

Math enrichment at our school implies learning math outside of the school altogether and often in an environment that is far more demanding and comprehensive than the AAP school math itself. These are the kids that go to regional and international competitions. The stronger the group of the students, the more likely is your “exclusively-learning-at-school” kid to “struggle - as compared to the rest of the class” (as in not get 100%, or get a 3 instead of a 4) when teacher bypasses instruction simply because majority of students learned the topic somewhere else.

By the time Middle School comes, the knowledge gap becomes an obstacle to take higher level math courses. And this is not because your kid did not pay attention, but because they were expected to learn many concepts outside of the school and their parents thought they can just rely on the school.

As a matter of fact, I would argue that if you are not doing any enrichment, you shouldn’t do AAP math at all because they are flying over some important math concepts that are covered at a better pace in GenEd. By the time your kid reaches Middle School they will have to go back to the same level of math courses as kids who did not attend AAP program at all. But, you do you.

This is truly nuts. As someone else posted, this isn't rocket science. It's 3rd 4th, 6th grade math. You "AOPS" "math competition" posters need to get over yourselves. And consider complaining about the lousy instruction from your DC's teachers.

I am not complaining. Math at school reinforces fundamental skills for DS. The math class at RSM dives into the fundamentals and builds on them nicely. It is challenging and stretches DS. The math competition class at RSM is what DS loves. It is where he learns new material and gets to discuss how he approaches math with other kids and the teacher. It is the math that is challenging and fun. He loves the competitions. It all works together. He is at a school where only a few kids attend AoPS or RSM. No one is flying through the math. But he loves math and asks to do the extra math.

I know that the 6th grade last SOL had some pass advances and no one in his class failed the SOL. DS doesn’t talk about videos being shown and immediate quizzes or anything like that.

This seems to be in line with the PP's experience - when few supplement/enrich, math is taught in class. When most do, math class becomes more focused on formative assessment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m sorry, but you don’t seem to have a good grasp of the strengths and weaknesses of most AAP ES students.

While there could be somewhere some who are failing, I haven’t met parents of any failing AAP students just yet. No one I talked with feels there is a need for supplementing either.

Math enrichment at our school implies learning math outside of the school altogether and often in an environment that is far more demanding and comprehensive than the AAP school math itself. These are the kids that go to regional and international competitions. The stronger the group of the students, the more likely is your “exclusively-learning-at-school” kid to “struggle - as compared to the rest of the class” (as in not get 100%, or get a 3 instead of a 4) when teacher bypasses instruction simply because majority of students learned the topic somewhere else.

By the time Middle School comes, the knowledge gap becomes an obstacle to take higher level math courses. And this is not because your kid did not pay attention, but because they were expected to learn many concepts outside of the school and their parents thought they can just rely on the school.

As a matter of fact, I would argue that if you are not doing any enrichment, you shouldn’t do AAP math at all because they are flying over some important math concepts that are covered at a better pace in GenEd. By the time your kid reaches Middle School they will have to go back to the same level of math courses as kids who did not attend AAP program at all. But, you do you.

This is truly nuts. As someone else posted, this isn't rocket science. It's 3rd 4th, 6th grade math. You "AOPS" "math competition" posters need to get over yourselves. And consider complaining about the lousy instruction from your DC's teachers.

I feel like the "AOPS" "math competition" posters would want to underestimate rather than overestimate the difficulty of AAP math - "AAP isn't really challenging the way AoPS/RSM/MOEMS is."

I agree with this. LIV/ Advanced Math is challenging for a lot of kids. It just is. There is a subset that are not challenged but that is a smaller number than most the people posting here think. If you were good at math and your kid is good at math then you probably think that the math is easy.

I can see that there are schools were more kids are enrolled in math enrichment and how that can cause issues at those schools. I would guess that this is the case at more higher SES schools were parents are determined that their kid end up at TJ.

As for the posts about kids burning out because of enrichment, we ask DS at least three times if he wants to continue with RSM. We ask at the end of the school year, when enrollment for the next year opens, when we get the first invoice, and when we get the last invoice. If he said he was done, we would respect his choice. He has asked to continue for four years and asked to test into competition math. Most kids drop rec sports between 6 and 8th grade, I am sure math will be the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m sorry, but you don’t seem to have a good grasp of the strengths and weaknesses of most AAP ES students.

While there could be somewhere some who are failing, I haven’t met parents of any failing AAP students just yet. No one I talked with feels there is a need for supplementing either.

Math enrichment at our school implies learning math outside of the school altogether and often in an environment that is far more demanding and comprehensive than the AAP school math itself. These are the kids that go to regional and international competitions. The stronger the group of the students, the more likely is your “exclusively-learning-at-school” kid to “struggle - as compared to the rest of the class” (as in not get 100%, or get a 3 instead of a 4) when teacher bypasses instruction simply because majority of students learned the topic somewhere else.

By the time Middle School comes, the knowledge gap becomes an obstacle to take higher level math courses. And this is not because your kid did not pay attention, but because they were expected to learn many concepts outside of the school and their parents thought they can just rely on the school.

As a matter of fact, I would argue that if you are not doing any enrichment, you shouldn’t do AAP math at all because they are flying over some important math concepts that are covered at a better pace in GenEd. By the time your kid reaches Middle School they will have to go back to the same level of math courses as kids who did not attend AAP program at all. But, you do you.

This is truly nuts. As someone else posted, this isn't rocket science. It's 3rd 4th, 6th grade math. You "AOPS" "math competition" posters need to get over yourselves. And consider complaining about the lousy instruction from your DC's teachers.

I am not complaining. Math at school reinforces fundamental skills for DS. The math class at RSM dives into the fundamentals and builds on them nicely. It is challenging and stretches DS. The math competition class at RSM is what DS loves. It is where he learns new material and gets to discuss how he approaches math with other kids and the teacher. It is the math that is challenging and fun. He loves the competitions. It all works together. He is at a school where only a few kids attend AoPS or RSM. No one is flying through the math. But he loves math and asks to do the extra math.

I know that the 6th grade last SOL had some pass advances and no one in his class failed the SOL. DS doesn’t talk about videos being shown and immediate quizzes or anything like that.

This seems to be in line with the PP's experience - when few supplement/enrich, math is taught in class. When most do, math class becomes more focused on formative assessment.

+100 …

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m sorry, but you don’t seem to have a good grasp of the strengths and weaknesses of most AAP ES students.

While there could be somewhere some who are failing, I haven’t met parents of any failing AAP students just yet. No one I talked with feels there is a need for supplementing either.

Math enrichment at our school implies learning math outside of the school altogether and often in an environment that is far more demanding and comprehensive than the AAP school math itself. These are the kids that go to regional and international competitions. The stronger the group of the students, the more likely is your “exclusively-learning-at-school” kid to “struggle - as compared to the rest of the class” (as in not get 100%, or get a 3 instead of a 4) when teacher bypasses instruction simply because majority of students learned the topic somewhere else.

By the time Middle School comes, the knowledge gap becomes an obstacle to take higher level math courses. And this is not because your kid did not pay attention, but because they were expected to learn many concepts outside of the school and their parents thought they can just rely on the school.

As a matter of fact, I would argue that if you are not doing any enrichment, you shouldn’t do AAP math at all because they are flying over some important math concepts that are covered at a better pace in GenEd. By the time your kid reaches Middle School they will have to go back to the same level of math courses as kids who did not attend AAP program at all. But, you do you.

I know where you are coming from and know some who feel that way.

Almost everyone who take AOPS or RSM in the hopes of doing well in competitions fade out by late middle school. I do agree they tend to do rather well upto that point around AMC 8 to AMC 10. They bomb out in AIME and AJMO/AMO. There is a reason for that. Dont let all the IMO team are in AOPS WOOT BS fool you.

What a bizarre comment.
Students only "bomb out" because no matter how amazingly talented they are, the number of winners is a fixed number. Today's "bomb outs" would be winners 20 years ago.

How can you call someone who is in the top 500 out of 4 Million students in their grade, "bombing out"?! That's top 0.01%!

The AMC contests have been getting harder every year for over 50 years now. Kids are so talented now that the AMC 10 is now nearly identical to the AMC 12, because so many kids are near perfect on the test 2 whole years earlier than they used to be, and the test remains committed to being only pre-calculus content

It's a crying shame that the MAA only cares about fielding a winning IMO team, and doesn't acknowledge the amazing achievements of the ever growing number of students learning an amazing amount of mathematics.