Reply to At what point do we pull the plug?

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]I’m sorry, but you don’t seem to have a good grasp of the strengths and weaknesses of most AAP ES students.

While there could be somewhere some who are failing, I haven’t met parents of any failing AAP students just yet. No one I talked with feels there is a need for supplementing either.

Math enrichment at our school implies learning math outside of the school altogether and often in an environment that is far more demanding and comprehensive than the AAP school math itself. These are the kids that go to regional and international competitions. The stronger the group of the students, the more likely is your “exclusively-learning-at-school” kid to “struggle - as compared to the rest of the class” (as in not get 100%, or get a 3 instead of a 4) when teacher bypasses instruction simply because majority of students learned the topic somewhere else.

By the time Middle School comes, the knowledge gap becomes an obstacle to take higher level math courses. And this is not because your kid did not pay attention, but because they were expected to learn many concepts outside of the school and their parents thought they can just rely on the school.

As a matter of fact, I would argue that if you are not doing any enrichment, you shouldn’t do AAP math at all because they are flying over some important math concepts that are covered at a better pace in GenEd. By the time your kid reaches Middle School they will have to go back to the same level of math courses as kids who did not attend AAP program at all. But, you do you. [/quote]

I know where you are coming from and know some who feel that way.

Almost everyone who take AOPS or RSM in the hopes of doing well in competitions fade out by late middle school. I do agree they tend to do rather well upto that point around AMC 8 to AMC 10. They bomb out in AIME and AJMO/AMO. There is a reason for that. Dont let all the IMO team are in AOPS WOOT BS fool you.

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I am the PP you responded to.

Do you mind to elaborate? I am genuinely curious and don’t know anything about benefits/or lack of benefits of acceleration and enrichment pass middle school. Why do kids bomb out at a later point? Does it not matter to them anymore (because they got to a school of their dreams?) or is is that they cannot keep up?

I never expected AAP math to be what it is at our center school, and aside from having to do the “proper” learning part elsewhere, I like our teachers and the school in general. I find it interesting that our school is an outlier compared to an experience of some of the posters here (at least in terms of quizzes and videos to check where the students are before deciding how much instruction is necessary).
 
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DP. The reason PP is saying they bomb out is mostly because they were pushed/forced by their parents into way too many activities with almost no time to play. Sure, AoPS and other enrichment classes were good for them and helped them do well in elementary and some middle school levels, but once the kids got to high school they realized they liked to do other stuff and didn't have to be controlled by their parents. This is particularly true for many TJ hopefuls many of whom were unduly stressed so that parents could laud them in their family and friends circles... This is even true for some kids who make it into TJ; they were pushed to a large degree against their will, that when they get there and realize they are not the best and possibly even below average, become tired and demotivated from continuing to "grind" it out all for college admissions. At that point they're smart enough to realize that their parents value them more for what they can achieve vs who they are.

They may be capable of keeping up, but their desire was lost by being forced to do stuff when they should have had a bit more play time. It's the academics analogy to the kids who are pushed to travel teams for hours almost every day of the week because of their parents sports obsession.

I'm not saying it's true for all kids, but there is a large portion of kids who went through years of enrichment and while they benefited from it, it did not motivate or increase their desire and love for learning, and the biggest factor was that they were simply overscheduled and didn't have time to relax, be a little bored, and just play. They were forced to study and compete to such a degree, that they literally have no memory of authentic play.

It's fairly obvious that balancing prep and play without turning it into a joyless exercise is key, so that way kids get a chance to actually enjoy learning and find their own drive. But many parents who are obsessed with TJ don't see it that way; they believe their kids have to constantly be pushed. They fail to realize that at a certain level (i.e high school AMCs, AIME and beyond) it's impossible to push their kids. If the kids aren't motivated or curious by that time, it is impossible for them to continue that path by external pressure.[/quote]

I agree with your concerns, to a point. I don't necessarily believe that overscheduling and a lack of downtime are "the biggest factor" that decides whether intrinsic drive is at the end of enrichment. For one, there are plenty of "slackers" whose parent don't enrich and yet they remain as unmotivated as they've always been.

For me, it's a question of providing for my child what I was given when I grew up: opportunities. Without outside enrichment, my child wouldn't have the same opportunities I had, thanks to the complete failure and math aversion in the public school system.

Children will sort themselves out, we did. And yes, only a handful are successful at challenging math competitions. Because as Barbie correctly opined, math is hard. And if it isn't to you, you're not doing it right.
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