What’s next to AMP 7?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To follow up, MoCo has a disproportionately high number of high-achieving students when compared with the rest of the country. (Highly capable is harder to identify -- that is for yet another thread.) Because we compare ourselves to the highest-achieving districts, the term "standard", when used to describe on-grade-level Math can be misinterpreted.

As used, above, it essentially refers to just that - material that is considered standard for the grade. It's not the standard expectation for our students, families or even MCPS, though, as a large plurality, or even a majority, complete Algebra by 8th grade, and a significant minority complete it in 7th. Algebra is a high school course, though, and one that goes on a child's transcript, whenever it might be taken. A good number of MCPS students accomplish this in 9th, and some do need supporting courses, completing it in later grades or in conjunction with the supports.

Whether this de facto national standard should change is, yet again, another mattter.

I think you need to compare with counties next door, like fairfax and Howard. MCPS doesn’t have disproportionately high number of high-achieving students. Algebra is a middle school course for the rest of the world. US is far behind in math if most kids take algebra in high school. How can this country keep being competitive if the next generation is not good at math.

Yes, we know. Other countries track their students and don't offer college prep curriculum to the entire population, so the biased selection of students are at a higher level.

Most people don't go to college. Carpenters and nurses (college educated!) don't need calculus.

US has near highest percentage of college graduates.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tertiary_education_attainment

Sure. It’s ok some kids don’t need calculus. But don’t try to close the achievement gap and drag down the standards for kids who need them. After all, we need engineers as well and we need more than other countries to stay competitive.

AMP6+ and AIM in 6th tracked to talking Calculus in high school. They just don't need to go way beyond it

Algebra 1 - 7th
geometry - 8th
algebra 2 - 9th
precalculus - 10th
calculus - 11th
post-calculus - 12th

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Algebra 1 in 6th grade is not on any registration form to my knowledge.

My child took Algebra 1 in 6th grade after being in pool for the magnet but not getting picked. We specifically requested it, since the CES compacted math had been very easy and slow. The math coordinator at our home middle school makes these students take a test the summer before 6th grade to see if they can handle the class. I believe this is the standard procedure for families who request a higher-level class that is not publicly available, and it works for language classes too, since my other child was able to test into a higher-level class in our native language that wasn't the beginner one that's automatically offered.

There's a lot more to that story, including the fact that MCPS tries its best these days to prevent students from being accelerated beyond the normal tracks, in any subject, but in theory, that's how it works.

My mathy child took Honors Geo in 7th and will be bused to our high school for Algebra 2 in 8th. So far, it's all been easy, and I don't anticipate my child will have any trouble with pre-calc, AP calc, multi-variable, etc.

If your coordinator starts saying no, remind them they can check in with their hierarchy, because it's been done before, and there is a known procedure.

How would you phrase this in a way that doesn't come across as entitled (which would damage any relationship you have with them)?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ok so I guess we are going to go round this circle again. I’m perfectly happy having my child take Algebra in 7th. I’m not in some huge race to…what exactly is everyone racing toward? My kid has those outlier math MAP scores. He’s fine with the regular accelerated path.

They're racing away from boredom/complacency and towards growth in their child's zone of proximal development.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/curriculum/math/middle

Math 6/7/8 is Prealgebra. It can be done in 1, 2, or 3 years in Middle School, depending on Elementary School preparation.

AMP+ was/is a 2-year program that starts in 6th grade, doing "Math. 6/7/8" in 2 years, leading to algebra 1in 8th.
It's possible that if a student excels in AMP+ in 6th, they could persuade school to jump to Algebra 1 in 7th.

It is less advanced than AIM / Investigations into Mathematics: 1-year Math 7/8 prealgebra done in 6th grade, mainly for students who did 2-year Compacted Math 4/5/6 in 4th and 5th grade. This leads to Algebra in 7th.

It is more accelerated than taking on-level Math 6/7/8 over 3 years, leading to Algebra 1 in 9th.

(Yes, some students do Algebra 1 in 6th. Please let's not have another thread rehashing that.)

Where's your evidence that a program completing 6/7/8 (or AMP6+AMP7) in one year exists? This seems like the "wealthy potomac schools" thing all over again.

I'm guessing PP meant you can get through the end of that in one year of MS via AIM (or AMP7+) if you had been in Math 5/6 before MS, not that there was a one-year class that did 6th, 7th & 8th together.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Algebra 1 in 6th grade is not on any registration form to my knowledge.

My child took Algebra 1 in 6th grade after being in pool for the magnet but not getting picked. We specifically requested it, since the CES compacted math had been very easy and slow. The math coordinator at our home middle school makes these students take a test the summer before 6th grade to see if they can handle the class. I believe this is the standard procedure for families who request a higher-level class that is not publicly available, and it works for language classes too, since my other child was able to test into a higher-level class in our native language that wasn't the beginner one that's automatically offered.

There's a lot more to that story, including the fact that MCPS tries its best these days to prevent students from being accelerated beyond the normal tracks, in any subject, but in theory, that's how it works.

My mathy child took Honors Geo in 7th and will be bused to our high school for Algebra 2 in 8th. So far, it's all been easy, and I don't anticipate my child will have any trouble with pre-calc, AP calc, multi-variable, etc.

This is different from both the available-at-registration note and the MAP-criteria note, and I assume you're experience is different from that of those posters. Clearly some schools are facilitating this. To which one are you referring? This would allow those interested elsewhere to point to an example when advocating -- knowledge empowers.

PP you replied to. No school is facilitating this. There is a troll that wakes up every time 6th grade Algebra is mentioned, who then fills the thread with screeds about how certain schools in wealthy neighborhoods get all the advanced options. This is not true at all, and 6th grade algebra is advertised nowhere. Our personal experience in the summer of 2021 showed that MCPS is actively trying to PREVENT kids from accessing those classes. It wouldn't surprise me that at some point, they will just stop offering the test-in option.

So with that information in mind, I do have to add that certain neighborhoods tend to have more parents who want those classes for their kids, and therefore it creates a slightly larger pool of people who can inform one another that if they ask for a test, they can get a test. Their kid still needs to do BETTER than the students who have already taken the class! But there is probably more information floating around in wealthier neighborhoods than in others, about this possibility of testing into a class. My kid is one of 3 such accelerated kids in their grade of about 300 in the BCC cluster.

Your point person is the math coordinator of your middle school. Two years ago, our math coordinator referenced a curriculum supervisor, and I understood it was someone in central office, not our own Principal. Your confusion probably comes from the fact that when families ask for the test, the math coordinator looks at the child's previous scores on MAP and other standardized tests, as well as math grades, presumably to have the opportunity of saying no immediately and saving themselves a couple of hours of work. At least, that's how our coordinator acted in our middle school. I suspect that these cases are so rare, coordinators check in with their supervisors to get a procedure. If your coordinator starts saying no, remind them they can check in with their hierarchy, because it's been done before, and there is a known procedure.

If there's a test/procedure, why shouldn't it be known to everyone? Why should a student at one school get the runaround when a student with similar ability at another be considered or even encouraged?

Because cohorts matter. MCPS doesn't want to pay for a class with <10kids. Especially because those kids learn math better at home than from the school teacher anyway.

This is why MCPS prefers to send outliers to magnet TPMS, and leave the high performing W cluster kids at their W cluster schools where they have enough peers to fill accelerated classes and have a huge math club going beyond curriculum.

They abandoned local cohort consideration except via the proxy of the FARMS rate adjustment for the qualifying MAP score, and whatever cohort-consideration effect that might provide is nearly muted by the lottery, which replaced ranking of applicants to take the true outliers.

As for not wanting to pay for kids without a cohort, that's simply inequitable, and keeping related information from broad availability is doubly so.

Who WOULD pay for it? Usually PTA's pay, so if the school doesn't have strong PTA or the PTA president sucks, there is no money to pay for it. It wasn't that big of a deal not to have it. It's only the ultra competitive parents who insist on those things. We had very few activities in MS. There is no such thing as equity.

In MCPS, principals are prohibited from taking PTA $ towards teacher salaries/making such a class available. If a school is allowing it, they are shifting already-allocated MCPS $ to do so.

It may be about catering this way to a strong PTA, but, then, other PTAs/parents should be able to ride on the coattails of the successful PTA -- if they can point to it as an example. Not wanting to divulge the name(a) of schools facilitating Algebra in 6th (beyond one-off highly exceptional cases) is, essentially, opportunity hoarding.

Of course, having loads of PTA cash for things for which principals are permitted to use it can make for a better student experience, anyway.

They have been names in other threads. Principals use their funds to pay for those things and pta steps in with the other needs ours schools pay for themselves.

If named elsewhere, why not name them here to save folks endless searching. Sounds like folks can't back up the claim, but want it believed.

Yes, as money is fungible, PTAs can support some things that might get funded elsewhere with system $, freeing up those system funds for the principal to use toward things that PTA isn't allowed to pay for directly. Hard to clamp down on the inequity without damaging the PTA relationship. Better to adjust school funding to the economic profile of the school to tend to even things out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Noticing that none of these phony-baloneys claiming whole-group 6th-grade Algebra are backong that up with the school name...

Haven't read the entire thread, but there is no "whole-group" registration for 5th graders into 6th grade Algebra. It's always on a case-by-case basis, and all the cases I've heard of, including for my own kid, were parent requested.

At your school maybe. We were given a registration form that all the 5th graders got sent home and the 5th grade teacher had to sign off on it. It had Algebra as an option. We choose it, teacher signed off, done. It was a non-issue.

Ok if this is true NAME THE SCHOOL. Why do people keep claiming things like this but then go silent when asked which school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Noticing that none of these phony-baloneys claiming whole-group 6th-grade Algebra are backong that up with the school name...

Haven't read the entire thread, but there is no "whole-group" registration for 5th graders into 6th grade Algebra. It's always on a case-by-case basis, and all the cases I've heard of, including for my own kid, were parent requested.

At your school maybe. We were given a registration form that all the 5th graders got sent home and the 5th grade teacher had to sign off on it. It had Algebra as an option. We choose it, teacher signed off, done. It was a non-issue.

Ok if this is true NAME THE SCHOOL. Why do people keep claiming things like this but then go silent when asked which school.

THEY HAVE BEEN NAMED IN OTHER POSTS. Why do we need to rehash it? These aren't schools you'd send your child to. They aren't the wealthy W schools. Why is the name of the school a big deal? If you want your child in Algebra in 6th talk to the school and advocate with MCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Algebra 1 in 6th grade is not on any registration form to my knowledge.

My child took Algebra 1 in 6th grade after being in pool for the magnet but not getting picked. We specifically requested it, since the CES compacted math had been very easy and slow. The math coordinator at our home middle school makes these students take a test the summer before 6th grade to see if they can handle the class. I believe this is the standard procedure for families who request a higher-level class that is not publicly available, and it works for language classes too, since my other child was able to test into a higher-level class in our native language that wasn't the beginner one that's automatically offered.

There's a lot more to that story, including the fact that MCPS tries its best these days to prevent students from being accelerated beyond the normal tracks, in any subject, but in theory, that's how it works.

My mathy child took Honors Geo in 7th and will be bused to our high school for Algebra 2 in 8th. So far, it's all been easy, and I don't anticipate my child will have any trouble with pre-calc, AP calc, multi-variable, etc.

This is different from both the available-at-registration note and the MAP-criteria note, and I assume you're experience is different from that of those posters. Clearly some schools are facilitating this. To which one are you referring? This would allow those interested elsewhere to point to an example when advocating -- knowledge empowers.

PP you replied to. No school is facilitating this. There is a troll that wakes up every time 6th grade Algebra is mentioned, who then fills the thread with screeds about how certain schools in wealthy neighborhoods get all the advanced options. This is not true at all, and 6th grade algebra is advertised nowhere. Our personal experience in the summer of 2021 showed that MCPS is actively trying to PREVENT kids from accessing those classes. It wouldn't surprise me that at some point, they will just stop offering the test-in option.

So with that information in mind, I do have to add that certain neighborhoods tend to have more parents who want those classes for their kids, and therefore it creates a slightly larger pool of people who can inform one another that if they ask for a test, they can get a test. Their kid still needs to do BETTER than the students who have already taken the class! But there is probably more information floating around in wealthier neighborhoods than in others, about this possibility of testing into a class. My kid is one of 3 such accelerated kids in their grade of about 300 in the BCC cluster.

Your point person is the math coordinator of your middle school. Two years ago, our math coordinator referenced a curriculum supervisor, and I understood it was someone in central office, not our own Principal. Your confusion probably comes from the fact that when families ask for the test, the math coordinator looks at the child's previous scores on MAP and other standardized tests, as well as math grades, presumably to have the opportunity of saying no immediately and saving themselves a couple of hours of work. At least, that's how our coordinator acted in our middle school. I suspect that these cases are so rare, coordinators check in with their supervisors to get a procedure. If your coordinator starts saying no, remind them they can check in with their hierarchy, because it's been done before, and there is a known procedure.

If there's a test/procedure, why shouldn't it be known to everyone? Why should a student at one school get the runaround when a student with similar ability at another be considered or even encouraged?

Because cohorts matter. MCPS doesn't want to pay for a class with <10kids. Especially because those kids learn math better at home than from the school teacher anyway.

This is why MCPS prefers to send outliers to magnet TPMS, and leave the high performing W cluster kids at their W cluster schools where they have enough peers to fill accelerated classes and have a huge math club going beyond curriculum.

They abandoned local cohort consideration except via the proxy of the FARMS rate adjustment for the qualifying MAP score, and whatever cohort-consideration effect that might provide is nearly muted by the lottery, which replaced ranking of applicants to take the true outliers.

As for not wanting to pay for kids without a cohort, that's simply inequitable, and keeping related information from broad availability is doubly so.

Who WOULD pay for it? Usually PTA's pay, so if the school doesn't have strong PTA or the PTA president sucks, there is no money to pay for it. It wasn't that big of a deal not to have it. It's only the ultra competitive parents who insist on those things. We had very few activities in MS. There is no such thing as equity.

In MCPS, principals are prohibited from taking PTA $ towards teacher salaries/making such a class available. If a school is allowing it, they are shifting already-allocated MCPS $ to do so.

It may be about catering this way to a strong PTA, but, then, other PTAs/parents should be able to ride on the coattails of the successful PTA -- if they can point to it as an example. Not wanting to divulge the name(a) of schools facilitating Algebra in 6th (beyond one-off highly exceptional cases) is, essentially, opportunity hoarding.

Of course, having loads of PTA cash for things for which principals are permitted to use it can make for a better student experience, anyway.

They have been names in other threads. Principals use their funds to pay for those things and pta steps in with the other needs ours schools pay for themselves.

If named elsewhere, why not name them here to save folks endless searching. Sounds like folks can't back up the claim, but want it believed.

Yes, as money is fungible, PTAs can support some things that might get funded elsewhere with system $, freeing up those system funds for the principal to use toward things that PTA isn't allowed to pay for directly. Hard to clamp down on the inequity without damaging the PTA relationship. Better to adjust school funding to the economic profile of the school to tend to even things out.

They have been named repeatedly in other threads. If you choose not to read them/or ignore the names that's on you. There is no such ting as equality. Nor, do we need equity. We need kids individual needs to be met. We've never been at a high income PTA school and generally those PTA's are dominated by a few parents and not welcoming. We regularly go without and we just go outside to get our kids needs met. No big deal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Noticing that none of these phony-baloneys claiming whole-group 6th-grade Algebra are backong that up with the school name...

Haven't read the entire thread, but there is no "whole-group" registration for 5th graders into 6th grade Algebra. It's always on a case-by-case basis, and all the cases I've heard of, including for my own kid, were parent requested.

At your school maybe. We were given a registration form that all the 5th graders got sent home and the 5th grade teacher had to sign off on it. It had Algebra as an option. We choose it, teacher signed off, done. It was a non-issue.

Ok if this is true NAME THE SCHOOL. Why do people keep claiming things like this but then go silent when asked which school.

THEY HAVE BEEN NAMED IN OTHER POSTS. Why do we need to rehash it? These aren't schools you'd send your child to. They aren't the wealthy W schools. Why is the name of the school a big deal? If you want your child in Algebra in 6th talk to the school and advocate with MCPS.

Funny thing, IN THIS TOPIC, the need already has been noted -- being able to point to the example school when advicating for the same elsewhere. To say it exists but not say where either means it's a false/misleading claim or that it is a boast with coincident desire to keep the opportunity from others. Shameful, either way.

To say, "Go look at other threads," is disingenuous, as it places a high burden on others to sift through all the possible forum posts, and as posting the known school names (by anyone claiming to know the practice exists) would be just as easy (if not easier) than posting that others should look at other topics in the first place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Algebra 1 in 6th grade is not on any registration form to my knowledge.

My child took Algebra 1 in 6th grade after being in pool for the magnet but not getting picked. We specifically requested it, since the CES compacted math had been very easy and slow. The math coordinator at our home middle school makes these students take a test the summer before 6th grade to see if they can handle the class. I believe this is the standard procedure for families who request a higher-level class that is not publicly available, and it works for language classes too, since my other child was able to test into a higher-level class in our native language that wasn't the beginner one that's automatically offered.

There's a lot more to that story, including the fact that MCPS tries its best these days to prevent students from being accelerated beyond the normal tracks, in any subject, but in theory, that's how it works.

My mathy child took Honors Geo in 7th and will be bused to our high school for Algebra 2 in 8th. So far, it's all been easy, and I don't anticipate my child will have any trouble with pre-calc, AP calc, multi-variable, etc.

This is different from both the available-at-registration note and the MAP-criteria note, and I assume you're experience is different from that of those posters. Clearly some schools are facilitating this. To which one are you referring? This would allow those interested elsewhere to point to an example when advocating -- knowledge empowers.

PP you replied to. No school is facilitating this. There is a troll that wakes up every time 6th grade Algebra is mentioned, who then fills the thread with screeds about how certain schools in wealthy neighborhoods get all the advanced options. This is not true at all, and 6th grade algebra is advertised nowhere. Our personal experience in the summer of 2021 showed that MCPS is actively trying to PREVENT kids from accessing those classes. It wouldn't surprise me that at some point, they will just stop offering the test-in option.

So with that information in mind, I do have to add that certain neighborhoods tend to have more parents who want those classes for their kids, and therefore it creates a slightly larger pool of people who can inform one another that if they ask for a test, they can get a test. Their kid still needs to do BETTER than the students who have already taken the class! But there is probably more information floating around in wealthier neighborhoods than in others, about this possibility of testing into a class. My kid is one of 3 such accelerated kids in their grade of about 300 in the BCC cluster.

Your point person is the math coordinator of your middle school. Two years ago, our math coordinator referenced a curriculum supervisor, and I understood it was someone in central office, not our own Principal. Your confusion probably comes from the fact that when families ask for the test, the math coordinator looks at the child's previous scores on MAP and other standardized tests, as well as math grades, presumably to have the opportunity of saying no immediately and saving themselves a couple of hours of work. At least, that's how our coordinator acted in our middle school. I suspect that these cases are so rare, coordinators check in with their supervisors to get a procedure. If your coordinator starts saying no, remind them they can check in with their hierarchy, because it's been done before, and there is a known procedure.

If there's a test/procedure, why shouldn't it be known to everyone? Why should a student at one school get the runaround when a student with similar ability at another be considered or even encouraged?

Because cohorts matter. MCPS doesn't want to pay for a class with <10kids. Especially because those kids learn math better at home than from the school teacher anyway.

This is why MCPS prefers to send outliers to magnet TPMS, and leave the high performing W cluster kids at their W cluster schools where they have enough peers to fill accelerated classes and have a huge math club going beyond curriculum.

They abandoned local cohort consideration except via the proxy of the FARMS rate adjustment for the qualifying MAP score, and whatever cohort-consideration effect that might provide is nearly muted by the lottery, which replaced ranking of applicants to take the true outliers.

As for not wanting to pay for kids without a cohort, that's simply inequitable, and keeping related information from broad availability is doubly so.

Who WOULD pay for it? Usually PTA's pay, so if the school doesn't have strong PTA or the PTA president sucks, there is no money to pay for it. It wasn't that big of a deal not to have it. It's only the ultra competitive parents who insist on those things. We had very few activities in MS. There is no such thing as equity.

In MCPS, principals are prohibited from taking PTA $ towards teacher salaries/making such a class available. If a school is allowing it, they are shifting already-allocated MCPS $ to do so.

It may be about catering this way to a strong PTA, but, then, other PTAs/parents should be able to ride on the coattails of the successful PTA -- if they can point to it as an example. Not wanting to divulge the name(a) of schools facilitating Algebra in 6th (beyond one-off highly exceptional cases) is, essentially, opportunity hoarding.

Of course, having loads of PTA cash for things for which principals are permitted to use it can make for a better student experience, anyway.

They have been names in other threads. Principals use their funds to pay for those things and pta steps in with the other needs ours schools pay for themselves.

If named elsewhere, why not name them here to save folks endless searching. Sounds like folks can't back up the claim, but want it believed.

Yes, as money is fungible, PTAs can support some things that might get funded elsewhere with system $, freeing up those system funds for the principal to use toward things that PTA isn't allowed to pay for directly. Hard to clamp down on the inequity without damaging the PTA relationship. Better to adjust school funding to the economic profile of the school to tend to even things out.

They have been named repeatedly in other threads. If you choose not to read them/or ignore the names that's on you. There is no such ting as equality. Nor, do we need equity. We need kids individual needs to be met. We've never been at a high income PTA school and generally those PTA's are dominated by a few parents and not welcoming. We regularly go without and we just go outside to get our kids needs met. No big deal.

No problem with your going outside to get your kids' needs met (other than that it means MCPS isn't doing its job in the first place). If we need kids' individual needs met, though, that should apply just as much to kids at another school as at yours.

Post the name of your school so that others can use it as an example for purposes of advocacy. It'd be less time consuming than continuing to post that it's been named elsewhere...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Algebra 1 in 6th grade is not on any registration form to my knowledge.

My child took Algebra 1 in 6th grade after being in pool for the magnet but not getting picked. We specifically requested it, since the CES compacted math had been very easy and slow. The math coordinator at our home middle school makes these students take a test the summer before 6th grade to see if they can handle the class. I believe this is the standard procedure for families who request a higher-level class that is not publicly available, and it works for language classes too, since my other child was able to test into a higher-level class in our native language that wasn't the beginner one that's automatically offered.

There's a lot more to that story, including the fact that MCPS tries its best these days to prevent students from being accelerated beyond the normal tracks, in any subject, but in theory, that's how it works.

My mathy child took Honors Geo in 7th and will be bused to our high school for Algebra 2 in 8th. So far, it's all been easy, and I don't anticipate my child will have any trouble with pre-calc, AP calc, multi-variable, etc.

This is different from both the available-at-registration note and the MAP-criteria note, and I assume you're experience is different from that of those posters. Clearly some schools are facilitating this. To which one are you referring? This would allow those interested elsewhere to point to an example when advocating -- knowledge empowers.

PP you replied to. No school is facilitating this. There is a troll that wakes up every time 6th grade Algebra is mentioned, who then fills the thread with screeds about how certain schools in wealthy neighborhoods get all the advanced options. This is not true at all, and 6th grade algebra is advertised nowhere. Our personal experience in the summer of 2021 showed that MCPS is actively trying to PREVENT kids from accessing those classes. It wouldn't surprise me that at some point, they will just stop offering the test-in option.

So with that information in mind, I do have to add that certain neighborhoods tend to have more parents who want those classes for their kids, and therefore it creates a slightly larger pool of people who can inform one another that if they ask for a test, they can get a test. Their kid still needs to do BETTER than the students who have already taken the class! But there is probably more information floating around in wealthier neighborhoods than in others, about this possibility of testing into a class. My kid is one of 3 such accelerated kids in their grade of about 300 in the BCC cluster.

Your point person is the math coordinator of your middle school. Two years ago, our math coordinator referenced a curriculum supervisor, and I understood it was someone in central office, not our own Principal. Your confusion probably comes from the fact that when families ask for the test, the math coordinator looks at the child's previous scores on MAP and other standardized tests, as well as math grades, presumably to have the opportunity of saying no immediately and saving themselves a couple of hours of work. At least, that's how our coordinator acted in our middle school. I suspect that these cases are so rare, coordinators check in with their supervisors to get a procedure. If your coordinator starts saying no, remind them they can check in with their hierarchy, because it's been done before, and there is a known procedure.

If there's a test/procedure, why shouldn't it be known to everyone? Why should a student at one school get the runaround when a student with similar ability at another be considered or even encouraged?

Because cohorts matter. MCPS doesn't want to pay for a class with <10kids. Especially because those kids learn math better at home than from the school teacher anyway.

This is why MCPS prefers to send outliers to magnet TPMS, and leave the high performing W cluster kids at their W cluster schools where they have enough peers to fill accelerated classes and have a huge math club going beyond curriculum.

They abandoned local cohort consideration except via the proxy of the FARMS rate adjustment for the qualifying MAP score, and whatever cohort-consideration effect that might provide is nearly muted by the lottery, which replaced ranking of applicants to take the true outliers.

As for not wanting to pay for kids without a cohort, that's simply inequitable, and keeping related information from broad availability is doubly so.

Who WOULD pay for it? Usually PTA's pay, so if the school doesn't have strong PTA or the PTA president sucks, there is no money to pay for it. It wasn't that big of a deal not to have it. It's only the ultra competitive parents who insist on those things. We had very few activities in MS. There is no such thing as equity.

In MCPS, principals are prohibited from taking PTA $ towards teacher salaries/making such a class available. If a school is allowing it, they are shifting already-allocated MCPS $ to do so.

It may be about catering this way to a strong PTA, but, then, other PTAs/parents should be able to ride on the coattails of the successful PTA -- if they can point to it as an example. Not wanting to divulge the name(a) of schools facilitating Algebra in 6th (beyond one-off highly exceptional cases) is, essentially, opportunity hoarding.

Of course, having loads of PTA cash for things for which principals are permitted to use it can make for a better student experience, anyway.

They have been names in other threads. Principals use their funds to pay for those things and pta steps in with the other needs ours schools pay for themselves.

If named elsewhere, why not name them here to save folks endless searching. Sounds like folks can't back up the claim, but want it believed.

Yes, as money is fungible, PTAs can support some things that might get funded elsewhere with system $, freeing up those system funds for the principal to use toward things that PTA isn't allowed to pay for directly. Hard to clamp down on the inequity without damaging the PTA relationship. Better to adjust school funding to the economic profile of the school to tend to even things out.

They have been named repeatedly in other threads. If you choose not to read them/or ignore the names that's on you. There is no such ting as equality. Nor, do we need equity. We need kids individual needs to be met. We've never been at a high income PTA school and generally those PTA's are dominated by a few parents and not welcoming. We regularly go without and we just go outside to get our kids needs met. No big deal.

No problem with your going outside to get your kids' needs met (other than that it means MCPS isn't doing its job in the first place). If we need kids' individual needs met, though, that should apply just as much to kids at another school as at yours.

Post the name of your school so that others can use it as an example for purposes of advocacy. It'd be less time consuming than continuing to post that it's been named elsewhere...

You don't need to know the name for advocacy. You can advocate knowing it's offered at some schools and not others. You can also look through old threads or talk to MCCPTA and get the information from them.

No, MCPS doesn't do a great job, especially at the schools we are at so we meet our kids elsewhere as we cannot afford a million dollar house.

You want to take the few opportunities our kids have away in the name of equity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Noticing that none of these phony-baloneys claiming whole-group 6th-grade Algebra are backong that up with the school name...

Haven't read the entire thread, but there is no "whole-group" registration for 5th graders into 6th grade Algebra. It's always on a case-by-case basis, and all the cases I've heard of, including for my own kid, were parent requested.

At your school maybe. We were given a registration form that all the 5th graders got sent home and the 5th grade teacher had to sign off on it. It had Algebra as an option. We choose it, teacher signed off, done. It was a non-issue.

Ok if this is true NAME THE SCHOOL. Why do people keep claiming things like this but then go silent when asked which school.

THEY HAVE BEEN NAMED IN OTHER POSTS. Why do we need to rehash it? These aren't schools you'd send your child to. They aren't the wealthy W schools. Why is the name of the school a big deal? If you want your child in Algebra in 6th talk to the school and advocate with MCPS.

Funny thing, IN THIS TOPIC, the need already has been noted -- being able to point to the example school when advicating for the same elsewhere. To say it exists but not say where either means it's a false/misleading claim or that it is a boast with coincident desire to keep the opportunity from others. Shameful, either way.

To say, "Go look at other threads," is disingenuous, as it places a high burden on others to sift through all the possible forum posts, and as posting the known school names (by anyone claiming to know the practice exists) would be just as easy (if not easier) than posting that others should look at other topics in the first place.

It's been in the last few threads on the same topic. No need to rehash it. It doesn't matter. It is either offered at your school or not. If not, talk to your school and then BOE and advocate for it.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:
Algebra 1 in 6th grade is not on any registration form to my knowledge.

My child took Algebra 1 in 6th grade after being in pool for the magnet but not getting picked. We specifically requested it, since the CES compacted math had been very easy and slow. The math coordinator at our home middle school makes these students take a test the summer before 6th grade to see if they can handle the class. I believe this is the standard procedure for families who request a higher-level class that is not publicly available, and it works for language classes too, since my other child was able to test into a higher-level class in our native language that wasn't the beginner one that's automatically offered.

There's a lot more to that story, including the fact that MCPS tries its best these days to prevent students from being accelerated beyond the normal tracks, in any subject, but in theory, that's how it works.

My mathy child took Honors Geo in 7th and will be bused to our high school for Algebra 2 in 8th. So far, it's all been easy, and I don't anticipate my child will have any trouble with pre-calc, AP calc, multi-variable, etc.

This is different from both the available-at-registration note and the MAP-criteria note, and I assume you're experience is different from that of those posters. Clearly some schools are facilitating this. To which one are you referring? This would allow those interested elsewhere to point to an example when advocating -- knowledge empowers.

PP you replied to. No school is facilitating this. There is a troll that wakes up every time 6th grade Algebra is mentioned, who then fills the thread with screeds about how certain schools in wealthy neighborhoods get all the advanced options. This is not true at all, and 6th grade algebra is advertised nowhere. Our personal experience in the summer of 2021 showed that MCPS is actively trying to PREVENT kids from accessing those classes. It wouldn't surprise me that at some point, they will just stop offering the test-in option.

So with that information in mind, I do have to add that certain neighborhoods tend to have more parents who want those classes for their kids, and therefore it creates a slightly larger pool of people who can inform one another that if they ask for a test, they can get a test. Their kid still needs to do BETTER than the students who have already taken the class! But there is probably more information floating around in wealthier neighborhoods than in others, about this possibility of testing into a class. My kid is one of 3 such accelerated kids in their grade of about 300 in the BCC cluster.

Your point person is the math coordinator of your middle school. Two years ago, our math coordinator referenced a curriculum supervisor, and I understood it was someone in central office, not our own Principal. Your confusion probably comes from the fact that when families ask for the test, the math coordinator looks at the child's previous scores on MAP and other standardized tests, as well as math grades, presumably to have the opportunity of saying no immediately and saving themselves a couple of hours of work. At least, that's how our coordinator acted in our middle school. I suspect that these cases are so rare, coordinators check in with their supervisors to get a procedure. If your coordinator starts saying no, remind them they can check in with their hierarchy, because it's been done before, and there is a known procedure.

If there's a test/procedure, why shouldn't it be known to everyone? Why should a student at one school get the runaround when a student with similar ability at another be considered or even encouraged?

Because cohorts matter. MCPS doesn't want to pay for a class with <10kids. Especially because those kids learn math better at home than from the school teacher anyway.

This is why MCPS prefers to send outliers to magnet TPMS, and leave the high performing W cluster kids at their W cluster schools where they have enough peers to fill accelerated classes and have a huge math club going beyond curriculum.

They abandoned local cohort consideration except via the proxy of the FARMS rate adjustment for the qualifying MAP score, and whatever cohort-consideration effect that might provide is nearly muted by the lottery, which replaced ranking of applicants to take the true outliers.

As for not wanting to pay for kids without a cohort, that's simply inequitable, and keeping related information from broad availability is doubly so.

Who WOULD pay for it? Usually PTA's pay, so if the school doesn't have strong PTA or the PTA president sucks, there is no money to pay for it. It wasn't that big of a deal not to have it. It's only the ultra competitive parents who insist on those things. We had very few activities in MS. There is no such thing as equity.

In MCPS, principals are prohibited from taking PTA $ towards teacher salaries/making such a class available. If a school is allowing it, they are shifting already-allocated MCPS $ to do so.

It may be about catering this way to a strong PTA, but, then, other PTAs/parents should be able to ride on the coattails of the successful PTA -- if they can point to it as an example. Not wanting to divulge the name(a) of schools facilitating Algebra in 6th (beyond one-off highly exceptional cases) is, essentially, opportunity hoarding.

Of course, having loads of PTA cash for things for which principals are permitted to use it can make for a better student experience, anyway.

They have been names in other threads. Principals use their funds to pay for those things and pta steps in with the other needs ours schools pay for themselves.

If named elsewhere, why not name them here to save folks endless searching. Sounds like folks can't back up the claim, but want it believed.

Yes, as money is fungible, PTAs can support some things that might get funded elsewhere with system $, freeing up those system funds for the principal to use toward things that PTA isn't allowed to pay for directly. Hard to clamp down on the inequity without damaging the PTA relationship. Better to adjust school funding to the economic profile of the school to tend to even things out.

They have been named repeatedly in other threads. If you choose not to read them/or ignore the names that's on you. There is no such ting as equality. Nor, do we need equity. We need kids individual needs to be met. We've never been at a high income PTA school and generally those PTA's are dominated by a few parents and not welcoming. We regularly go without and we just go outside to get our kids needs met. No big deal.

No problem with your going outside to get your kids' needs met (other than that it means MCPS isn't doing its job in the first place). If we need kids' individual needs met, though, that should apply just as much to kids at another school as at yours.

Post the name of your school so that others can use it as an example for purposes of advocacy. It'd be less time consuming than continuing to post that it's been named elsewhere...

You don't need to know the name for advocacy. You can advocate knowing it's offered at some schools and not others. You can also look through old threads or talk to MCCPTA and get the information from them.

No, MCPS doesn't do a great job, especially at the schools we are at so we meet our kids elsewhere as we cannot afford a million dollar house.

You want to take the few opportunities our kids have away in the name of equity.

Taking away opportunity is the last thing I want. Do you really think that a school is keeping it a secret from MCPS central admin that they are doing this, and that admin would then take it away? They are loath to step on principals' feifdoms.

Admin gets the data already, every year from student records -- they don't need it from here. It's the rest of us who don't.

Admin is misguided in thinking that it's better not to deal with more rapid acceleration prior to HS than to meet students where they are to maintain interest in the subject. This is due to the effect on required HS coursework (but these kids typically handle the advanced college classes well and there are ways to slow down later if interest isn't maintained) and the burden on the system from an early Alegbra taker struggling with the state exam (but the cases where accelerated students have trouble with the exam are exceedingly rare). So they haven't pushed any info out into the public, and when asked only mention very rare one-off cases.

If thereare any schools where it's more than that, where principals are accommodating/facilitating family requests and meeting students where they are in this regard, families need to know this so that they can make the equity argument to have it available throughout the system. MCCPTA doesn't have this info any more than any of us, individuals.

Posting a school name and the method of accommodation (via registration, request/test or otherwise) would be easy. Or you could continue to sow discord by suggesting the practice exists at "special" schools, giving folks a reason to spin MCPS wheels to no avail. You're doing the latter, so...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Algebra 1 in 6th grade is not on any registration form to my knowledge.

My child took Algebra 1 in 6th grade after being in pool for the magnet but not getting picked. We specifically requested it, since the CES compacted math had been very easy and slow. The math coordinator at our home middle school makes these students take a test the summer before 6th grade to see if they can handle the class. I believe this is the standard procedure for families who request a higher-level class that is not publicly available, and it works for language classes too, since my other child was able to test into a higher-level class in our native language that wasn't the beginner one that's automatically offered.

There's a lot more to that story, including the fact that MCPS tries its best these days to prevent students from being accelerated beyond the normal tracks, in any subject, but in theory, that's how it works.

My mathy child took Honors Geo in 7th and will be bused to our high school for Algebra 2 in 8th. So far, it's all been easy, and I don't anticipate my child will have any trouble with pre-calc, AP calc, multi-variable, etc.

This is different from both the available-at-registration note and the MAP-criteria note, and I assume you're experience is different from that of those posters. Clearly some schools are facilitating this. To which one are you referring? This would allow those interested elsewhere to point to an example when advocating -- knowledge empowers.

PP you replied to. No school is facilitating this. There is a troll that wakes up every time 6th grade Algebra is mentioned, who then fills the thread with screeds about how certain schools in wealthy neighborhoods get all the advanced options. This is not true at all, and 6th grade algebra is advertised nowhere. Our personal experience in the summer of 2021 showed that MCPS is actively trying to PREVENT kids from accessing those classes. It wouldn't surprise me that at some point, they will just stop offering the test-in option.

So with that information in mind, I do have to add that certain neighborhoods tend to have more parents who want those classes for their kids, and therefore it creates a slightly larger pool of people who can inform one another that if they ask for a test, they can get a test. Their kid still needs to do BETTER than the students who have already taken the class! But there is probably more information floating around in wealthier neighborhoods than in others, about this possibility of testing into a class. My kid is one of 3 such accelerated kids in their grade of about 300 in the BCC cluster.

Your point person is the math coordinator of your middle school. Two years ago, our math coordinator referenced a curriculum supervisor, and I understood it was someone in central office, not our own Principal. Your confusion probably comes from the fact that when families ask for the test, the math coordinator looks at the child's previous scores on MAP and other standardized tests, as well as math grades, presumably to have the opportunity of saying no immediately and saving themselves a couple of hours of work. At least, that's how our coordinator acted in our middle school. I suspect that these cases are so rare, coordinators check in with their supervisors to get a procedure. If your coordinator starts saying no, remind them they can check in with their hierarchy, because it's been done before, and there is a known procedure.

If there's a test/procedure, why shouldn't it be known to everyone? Why should a student at one school get the runaround when a student with similar ability at another be considered or even encouraged?

Because cohorts matter. MCPS doesn't want to pay for a class with <10kids. Especially because those kids learn math better at home than from the school teacher anyway.

This is why MCPS prefers to send outliers to magnet TPMS, and leave the high performing W cluster kids at their W cluster schools where they have enough peers to fill accelerated classes and have a huge math club going beyond curriculum.

They abandoned local cohort consideration except via the proxy of the FARMS rate adjustment for the qualifying MAP score, and whatever cohort-consideration effect that might provide is nearly muted by the lottery, which replaced ranking of applicants to take the true outliers.

As for not wanting to pay for kids without a cohort, that's simply inequitable, and keeping related information from broad availability is doubly so.

Who WOULD pay for it? Usually PTA's pay, so if the school doesn't have strong PTA or the PTA president sucks, there is no money to pay for it. It wasn't that big of a deal not to have it. It's only the ultra competitive parents who insist on those things. We had very few activities in MS. There is no such thing as equity.

In MCPS, principals are prohibited from taking PTA $ towards teacher salaries/making such a class available. If a school is allowing it, they are shifting already-allocated MCPS $ to do so.

It may be about catering this way to a strong PTA, but, then, other PTAs/parents should be able to ride on the coattails of the successful PTA -- if they can point to it as an example. Not wanting to divulge the name(a) of schools facilitating Algebra in 6th (beyond one-off highly exceptional cases) is, essentially, opportunity hoarding.

Of course, having loads of PTA cash for things for which principals are permitted to use it can make for a better student experience, anyway.

They have been names in other threads. Principals use their funds to pay for those things and pta steps in with the other needs ours schools pay for themselves.

If named elsewhere, why not name them here to save folks endless searching. Sounds like folks can't back up the claim, but want it believed.

Yes, as money is fungible, PTAs can support some things that might get funded elsewhere with system $, freeing up those system funds for the principal to use toward things that PTA isn't allowed to pay for directly. Hard to clamp down on the inequity without damaging the PTA relationship. Better to adjust school funding to the economic profile of the school to tend to even things out.

They have been named repeatedly in other threads. If you choose not to read them/or ignore the names that's on you. There is no such ting as equality. Nor, do we need equity. We need kids individual needs to be met. We've never been at a high income PTA school and generally those PTA's are dominated by a few parents and not welcoming. We regularly go without and we just go outside to get our kids needs met. No big deal.

No problem with your going outside to get your kids' needs met (other than that it means MCPS isn't doing its job in the first place). If we need kids' individual needs met, though, that should apply just as much to kids at another school as at yours.

Post the name of your school so that others can use it as an example for purposes of advocacy. It'd be less time consuming than continuing to post that it's been named elsewhere...

You can advocate knowing it's offered at some schools and not others.

Sure you do. If you're trying to advocate for it at your school, and you claim that other schools do it, how will you respond when you're either told that they don't, or asked to name the schools which do so? Saying "school XYZ does this" is very different than saying "But other schools do it...no, I don't know which, it's all hearsay I read online on an anonymous forum. But trust me! They totally do it!"

[Anonymous]

I'm incredibly impressed by how much time people spent claiming school names were already somewhere else (while conveniently leaving out the link) instead of just naming the school, which would take a fraction of the time.

Claiming algebra in 6th exists, then not sharing the school names when asked. Claiming the school names were shared in other threads, then not linking the threads in question. I'm starting to notice a pattern here.