What’s next to AMP 7?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Algebra 1 in 6th grade is not on any registration form to my knowledge.

My child took Algebra 1 in 6th grade after being in pool for the magnet but not getting picked. We specifically requested it, since the CES compacted math had been very easy and slow. The math coordinator at our home middle school makes these students take a test the summer before 6th grade to see if they can handle the class. I believe this is the standard procedure for families who request a higher-level class that is not publicly available, and it works for language classes too, since my other child was able to test into a higher-level class in our native language that wasn't the beginner one that's automatically offered.

There's a lot more to that story, including the fact that MCPS tries its best these days to prevent students from being accelerated beyond the normal tracks, in any subject, but in theory, that's how it works.

My mathy child took Honors Geo in 7th and will be bused to our high school for Algebra 2 in 8th. So far, it's all been easy, and I don't anticipate my child will have any trouble with pre-calc, AP calc, multi-variable, etc.

This is different from both the available-at-registration note and the MAP-criteria note, and I assume you're experience is different from that of those posters. Clearly some schools are facilitating this. To which one are you referring? This would allow those interested elsewhere to point to an example when advocating -- knowledge empowers.

PP you replied to. No school is facilitating this. There is a troll that wakes up every time 6th grade Algebra is mentioned, who then fills the thread with screeds about how certain schools in wealthy neighborhoods get all the advanced options. This is not true at all, and 6th grade algebra is advertised nowhere. Our personal experience in the summer of 2021 showed that MCPS is actively trying to PREVENT kids from accessing those classes. It wouldn't surprise me that at some point, they will just stop offering the test-in option.

So with that information in mind, I do have to add that certain neighborhoods tend to have more parents who want those classes for their kids, and therefore it creates a slightly larger pool of people who can inform one another that if they ask for a test, they can get a test. Their kid still needs to do BETTER than the students who have already taken the class! But there is probably more information floating around in wealthier neighborhoods than in others, about this possibility of testing into a class. My kid is one of 3 such accelerated kids in their grade of about 300 in the BCC cluster.

Your point person is the math coordinator of your middle school. Two years ago, our math coordinator referenced a curriculum supervisor, and I understood it was someone in central office, not our own Principal. Your confusion probably comes from the fact that when families ask for the test, the math coordinator looks at the child's previous scores on MAP and other standardized tests, as well as math grades, presumably to have the opportunity of saying no immediately and saving themselves a couple of hours of work. At least, that's how our coordinator acted in our middle school. I suspect that these cases are so rare, coordinators check in with their supervisors to get a procedure. If your coordinator starts saying no, remind them they can check in with their hierarchy, because it's been done before, and there is a known procedure.

If there's a test/procedure, why shouldn't it be known to everyone? Why should a student at one school get the runaround when a student with similar ability at another be considered or even encouraged?

Because cohorts matter. MCPS doesn't want to pay for a class with <10kids. Especially because those kids learn math better at home than from the school teacher anyway.

This is why MCPS prefers to send outliers to magnet TPMS, and leave the high performing W cluster kids at their W cluster schools where they have enough peers to fill accelerated classes and have a huge math club going beyond curriculum.

They abandoned local cohort consideration except via the proxy of the FARMS rate adjustment for the qualifying MAP score, and whatever cohort-consideration effect that might provide is nearly muted by the lottery, which replaced ranking of applicants to take the true outliers.

As for not wanting to pay for kids without a cohort, that's simply inequitable, and keeping related information from broad availability is doubly so.

Who WOULD pay for it? Usually PTA's pay, so if the school doesn't have strong PTA or the PTA president sucks, there is no money to pay for it. It wasn't that big of a deal not to have it. It's only the ultra competitive parents who insist on those things. We had very few activities in MS. There is no such thing as equity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Algebra 1 in 6th grade is not on any registration form to my knowledge.

My child took Algebra 1 in 6th grade after being in pool for the magnet but not getting picked. We specifically requested it, since the CES compacted math had been very easy and slow. The math coordinator at our home middle school makes these students take a test the summer before 6th grade to see if they can handle the class. I believe this is the standard procedure for families who request a higher-level class that is not publicly available, and it works for language classes too, since my other child was able to test into a higher-level class in our native language that wasn't the beginner one that's automatically offered.

There's a lot more to that story, including the fact that MCPS tries its best these days to prevent students from being accelerated beyond the normal tracks, in any subject, but in theory, that's how it works.

My mathy child took Honors Geo in 7th and will be bused to our high school for Algebra 2 in 8th. So far, it's all been easy, and I don't anticipate my child will have any trouble with pre-calc, AP calc, multi-variable, etc.

This is different from both the available-at-registration note and the MAP-criteria note, and I assume you're experience is different from that of those posters. Clearly some schools are facilitating this. To which one are you referring? This would allow those interested elsewhere to point to an example when advocating -- knowledge empowers.

PP you replied to. No school is facilitating this. There is a troll that wakes up every time 6th grade Algebra is mentioned, who then fills the thread with screeds about how certain schools in wealthy neighborhoods get all the advanced options. This is not true at all, and 6th grade algebra is advertised nowhere. Our personal experience in the summer of 2021 showed that MCPS is actively trying to PREVENT kids from accessing those classes. It wouldn't surprise me that at some point, they will just stop offering the test-in option.

So with that information in mind, I do have to add that certain neighborhoods tend to have more parents who want those classes for their kids, and therefore it creates a slightly larger pool of people who can inform one another that if they ask for a test, they can get a test. Their kid still needs to do BETTER than the students who have already taken the class! But there is probably more information floating around in wealthier neighborhoods than in others, about this possibility of testing into a class. My kid is one of 3 such accelerated kids in their grade of about 300 in the BCC cluster.

Your point person is the math coordinator of your middle school. Two years ago, our math coordinator referenced a curriculum supervisor, and I understood it was someone in central office, not our own Principal. Your confusion probably comes from the fact that when families ask for the test, the math coordinator looks at the child's previous scores on MAP and other standardized tests, as well as math grades, presumably to have the opportunity of saying no immediately and saving themselves a couple of hours of work. At least, that's how our coordinator acted in our middle school. I suspect that these cases are so rare, coordinators check in with their supervisors to get a procedure. If your coordinator starts saying no, remind them they can check in with their hierarchy, because it's been done before, and there is a known procedure.

If there's a test/procedure, why shouldn't it be known to everyone? Why should a student at one school get the runaround when a student with similar ability at another be considered or even encouraged?

Because as people keep pointing out, it’s not so much a policy as an exception. The number of kids taking Algebra in 6th is small. Usually this comes about because a family is inquiring about it, either because their kid is far ahead in math and wants a greater challenge or the kid is new to the school system and already completed the prior coursework. Further, this is not something that MCPS wants as part of their normal math progression options because 1)they know taking ore-algebra creates a better foundation, 2) Its necessitates other logistics for MS, and 3)kids have to take 4yrs of math in HS by state requirement and not every kid wants to be taking a math beyond Calculus or an advance computer science course.

Whatever the reasons MCPS has for disfavoring the path, if the exception is available for some precocious students, but not all, they simply are propogating an inequity

Agree.

[Anonymous]

Ok so I guess we are going to go round this circle again. I’m perfectly happy having my child take Algebra in 7th. I’m not in some huge race to…what exactly is everyone racing toward? My kid has those outlier math MAP scores. He’s fine with the regular accelerated path.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ok so I guess we are going to go round this circle again. I’m perfectly happy having my child take Algebra in 7th. I’m not in some huge race to…what exactly is everyone racing toward? My kid has those outlier math MAP scores. He’s fine with the regular accelerated path.

Agree. My kid was had a MAP-M in the 250s in 5th and would not have wanted to do algebra in 6th. Practice with foundations is always good. And even with algebra in 7th, that leaves time for both AP Calc BC and AP Stats in HS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ok so I guess we are going to go round this circle again. I’m perfectly happy having my child take Algebra in 7th. I’m not in some huge race to…what exactly is everyone racing toward? My kid has those outlier math MAP scores. He’s fine with the regular accelerated path.

My kid choose to do Algebra in 6th but I don't see the huge advantage to it and would have been fine doing it in 7th too. 7th is still very accelerated as many private and other school systems don't start Algebra till 8th or 9th.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Noticing that none of these phony-baloneys claiming whole-group 6th-grade Algebra are backong that up with the school name...

Haven't read the entire thread, but there is no "whole-group" registration for 5th graders into 6th grade Algebra. It's always on a case-by-case basis, and all the cases I've heard of, including for my own kid, were parent requested.

At your school maybe. We were given a registration form that all the 5th graders got sent home and the 5th grade teacher had to sign off on it. It had Algebra as an option. We choose it, teacher signed off, done. It was a non-issue.

So which school was that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Algebra 1 in 6th grade is not on any registration form to my knowledge.

My child took Algebra 1 in 6th grade after being in pool for the magnet but not getting picked. We specifically requested it, since the CES compacted math had been very easy and slow. The math coordinator at our home middle school makes these students take a test the summer before 6th grade to see if they can handle the class. I believe this is the standard procedure for families who request a higher-level class that is not publicly available, and it works for language classes too, since my other child was able to test into a higher-level class in our native language that wasn't the beginner one that's automatically offered.

There's a lot more to that story, including the fact that MCPS tries its best these days to prevent students from being accelerated beyond the normal tracks, in any subject, but in theory, that's how it works.

My mathy child took Honors Geo in 7th and will be bused to our high school for Algebra 2 in 8th. So far, it's all been easy, and I don't anticipate my child will have any trouble with pre-calc, AP calc, multi-variable, etc.

This is different from both the available-at-registration note and the MAP-criteria note, and I assume you're experience is different from that of those posters. Clearly some schools are facilitating this. To which one are you referring? This would allow those interested elsewhere to point to an example when advocating -- knowledge empowers.

PP you replied to. No school is facilitating this. There is a troll that wakes up every time 6th grade Algebra is mentioned, who then fills the thread with screeds about how certain schools in wealthy neighborhoods get all the advanced options. This is not true at all, and 6th grade algebra is advertised nowhere. Our personal experience in the summer of 2021 showed that MCPS is actively trying to PREVENT kids from accessing those classes. It wouldn't surprise me that at some point, they will just stop offering the test-in option.

So with that information in mind, I do have to add that certain neighborhoods tend to have more parents who want those classes for their kids, and therefore it creates a slightly larger pool of people who can inform one another that if they ask for a test, they can get a test. Their kid still needs to do BETTER than the students who have already taken the class! But there is probably more information floating around in wealthier neighborhoods than in others, about this possibility of testing into a class. My kid is one of 3 such accelerated kids in their grade of about 300 in the BCC cluster.

Your point person is the math coordinator of your middle school. Two years ago, our math coordinator referenced a curriculum supervisor, and I understood it was someone in central office, not our own Principal. Your confusion probably comes from the fact that when families ask for the test, the math coordinator looks at the child's previous scores on MAP and other standardized tests, as well as math grades, presumably to have the opportunity of saying no immediately and saving themselves a couple of hours of work. At least, that's how our coordinator acted in our middle school. I suspect that these cases are so rare, coordinators check in with their supervisors to get a procedure. If your coordinator starts saying no, remind them they can check in with their hierarchy, because it's been done before, and there is a known procedure.

If there's a test/procedure, why shouldn't it be known to everyone? Why should a student at one school get the runaround when a student with similar ability at another be considered or even encouraged?

Because cohorts matter. MCPS doesn't want to pay for a class with <10kids. Especially because those kids learn math better at home than from the school teacher anyway.

This is why MCPS prefers to send outliers to magnet TPMS, and leave the high performing W cluster kids at their W cluster schools where they have enough peers to fill accelerated classes and have a huge math club going beyond curriculum.

They abandoned local cohort consideration except via the proxy of the FARMS rate adjustment for the qualifying MAP score, and whatever cohort-consideration effect that might provide is nearly muted by the lottery, which replaced ranking of applicants to take the true outliers.

As for not wanting to pay for kids without a cohort, that's simply inequitable, and keeping related information from broad availability is doubly so.

Who WOULD pay for it? Usually PTA's pay, so if the school doesn't have strong PTA or the PTA president sucks, there is no money to pay for it. It wasn't that big of a deal not to have it. It's only the ultra competitive parents who insist on those things. We had very few activities in MS. There is no such thing as equity.

In MCPS, principals are prohibited from taking PTA $ towards teacher salaries/making such a class available. If a school is allowing it, they are shifting already-allocated MCPS $ to do so.

It may be about catering this way to a strong PTA, but, then, other PTAs/parents should be able to ride on the coattails of the successful PTA -- if they can point to it as an example. Not wanting to divulge the name(a) of schools facilitating Algebra in 6th (beyond one-off highly exceptional cases) is, essentially, opportunity hoarding.

Of course, having loads of PTA cash for things for which principals are permitted to use it can make for a better student experience, anyway.

[Anonymous]

Teachers that supervise approved clubs get an mcps stipend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok so I guess we are going to go round this circle again. I’m perfectly happy having my child take Algebra in 7th. I’m not in some huge race to…what exactly is everyone racing toward? My kid has those outlier math MAP scores. He’s fine with the regular accelerated path.

My kid choose to do Algebra in 6th but I don't see the huge advantage to it and would have been fine doing it in 7th too. 7th is still very accelerated as many private and other school systems don't start Algebra till 8th or 9th.

Whether it's good for one kid or other to do it in 6th vs. 7th isn't the issue. Having it readily available for kids at some MCPS schools but not at others is.

Your kid got the choice. Which school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Algebra 1 in 6th grade is not on any registration form to my knowledge.

My child took Algebra 1 in 6th grade after being in pool for the magnet but not getting picked. We specifically requested it, since the CES compacted math had been very easy and slow. The math coordinator at our home middle school makes these students take a test the summer before 6th grade to see if they can handle the class. I believe this is the standard procedure for families who request a higher-level class that is not publicly available, and it works for language classes too, since my other child was able to test into a higher-level class in our native language that wasn't the beginner one that's automatically offered.

There's a lot more to that story, including the fact that MCPS tries its best these days to prevent students from being accelerated beyond the normal tracks, in any subject, but in theory, that's how it works.

My mathy child took Honors Geo in 7th and will be bused to our high school for Algebra 2 in 8th. So far, it's all been easy, and I don't anticipate my child will have any trouble with pre-calc, AP calc, multi-variable, etc.

This is different from both the available-at-registration note and the MAP-criteria note, and I assume you're experience is different from that of those posters. Clearly some schools are facilitating this. To which one are you referring? This would allow those interested elsewhere to point to an example when advocating -- knowledge empowers.

PP you replied to. No school is facilitating this. There is a troll that wakes up every time 6th grade Algebra is mentioned, who then fills the thread with screeds about how certain schools in wealthy neighborhoods get all the advanced options. This is not true at all, and 6th grade algebra is advertised nowhere. Our personal experience in the summer of 2021 showed that MCPS is actively trying to PREVENT kids from accessing those classes. It wouldn't surprise me that at some point, they will just stop offering the test-in option.

So with that information in mind, I do have to add that certain neighborhoods tend to have more parents who want those classes for their kids, and therefore it creates a slightly larger pool of people who can inform one another that if they ask for a test, they can get a test. Their kid still needs to do BETTER than the students who have already taken the class! But there is probably more information floating around in wealthier neighborhoods than in others, about this possibility of testing into a class. My kid is one of 3 such accelerated kids in their grade of about 300 in the BCC cluster.

Your point person is the math coordinator of your middle school. Two years ago, our math coordinator referenced a curriculum supervisor, and I understood it was someone in central office, not our own Principal. Your confusion probably comes from the fact that when families ask for the test, the math coordinator looks at the child's previous scores on MAP and other standardized tests, as well as math grades, presumably to have the opportunity of saying no immediately and saving themselves a couple of hours of work. At least, that's how our coordinator acted in our middle school. I suspect that these cases are so rare, coordinators check in with their supervisors to get a procedure. If your coordinator starts saying no, remind them they can check in with their hierarchy, because it's been done before, and there is a known procedure.

If there's a test/procedure, why shouldn't it be known to everyone? Why should a student at one school get the runaround when a student with similar ability at another be considered or even encouraged?

Because as people keep pointing out, it’s not so much a policy as an exception. The number of kids taking Algebra in 6th is small. Usually this comes about because a family is inquiring about it, either because their kid is far ahead in math and wants a greater challenge or the kid is new to the school system and already completed the prior coursework. Further, this is not something that MCPS wants as part of their normal math progression options because 1)they know taking ore-algebra creates a better foundation, 2) Its necessitates other logistics for MS, and 3)kids have to take 4yrs of math in HS by state requirement and not every kid wants to be taking a math beyond Calculus or an advance computer science course.

Families are not inquiring. You like to speculate a lot. It’s by map scores and grades at that particular school. I think it’s more about keeping kids at these lower rated schools who did not get into the magnet programs where they should be.

I don't know which school you are referring to, but no. Families have to inquire first. I don't know of any school that comes up to a family and says "hey, your kid scored 288 on MAP-M, so we want to place them in Algebra 1 next year". Because no one has been assigned that task, no one cares, and no one is looking at scores. It's the parents who start asking, if they are aware or interested enough, and then a math teacher will say "yikes, 288! heck yeah, I'll test this kid". Surely you don't expect a public school teacher to comb through thousands of test scores on their own volition?!

However, once the parents ask, yes, the school does look at the student's prior math record, just to see whether it would be feasible for them to place in an advanced class. For Algebra 1 in 6th, I don't know whether there is an official cut-off, because this track is not official! Someone in central office may say, if a math teacher asks, "yeah, if the student scores above a 255, why not give them a test this summer", and then if the student is at 254, maybe the teacher still goes ahead and lets them test. I strongly suspect it's that sort of thing.

Finally, I suspect that parents have started asking a WHOLE LOT MORE OFTEN since the start of the pandemic, when magnet middle schools started operating with a pool for eligible students and then a lottery. It shuts out dozens of very-high-achieving mathy kids, whose parents are then frustrated enough to ask for acceleration at their home schools! The old system was way better, because mathy kids just went to the STEM magnet and home schools didn't have as much accommodations to provide in terms of math acceleration.

Our school called families and offered them slots in Algebra in 6th. It's school specific. There was no test. I believe it was over the 250's consistently for a year. The guidance counselor handles it at registration time. We didn't have to inquire. It was either on the registration form or if kids didn't choose it, parents got called and offered a spot.

Magnets have always shut out kids as they only take 100 kids and often 1-3 students per school.

Everyone is speculating and making up stuff.

Which school was yours?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Algebra 1 in 6th grade is not on any registration form to my knowledge.

My child took Algebra 1 in 6th grade after being in pool for the magnet but not getting picked. We specifically requested it, since the CES compacted math had been very easy and slow. The math coordinator at our home middle school makes these students take a test the summer before 6th grade to see if they can handle the class. I believe this is the standard procedure for families who request a higher-level class that is not publicly available, and it works for language classes too, since my other child was able to test into a higher-level class in our native language that wasn't the beginner one that's automatically offered.

There's a lot more to that story, including the fact that MCPS tries its best these days to prevent students from being accelerated beyond the normal tracks, in any subject, but in theory, that's how it works.

My mathy child took Honors Geo in 7th and will be bused to our high school for Algebra 2 in 8th. So far, it's all been easy, and I don't anticipate my child will have any trouble with pre-calc, AP calc, multi-variable, etc.

This is different from both the available-at-registration note and the MAP-criteria note, and I assume you're experience is different from that of those posters. Clearly some schools are facilitating this. To which one are you referring? This would allow those interested elsewhere to point to an example when advocating -- knowledge empowers.

PP you replied to. No school is facilitating this. There is a troll that wakes up every time 6th grade Algebra is mentioned, who then fills the thread with screeds about how certain schools in wealthy neighborhoods get all the advanced options. This is not true at all, and 6th grade algebra is advertised nowhere. Our personal experience in the summer of 2021 showed that MCPS is actively trying to PREVENT kids from accessing those classes. It wouldn't surprise me that at some point, they will just stop offering the test-in option.

So with that information in mind, I do have to add that certain neighborhoods tend to have more parents who want those classes for their kids, and therefore it creates a slightly larger pool of people who can inform one another that if they ask for a test, they can get a test. Their kid still needs to do BETTER than the students who have already taken the class! But there is probably more information floating around in wealthier neighborhoods than in others, about this possibility of testing into a class. My kid is one of 3 such accelerated kids in their grade of about 300 in the BCC cluster.

Your point person is the math coordinator of your middle school. Two years ago, our math coordinator referenced a curriculum supervisor, and I understood it was someone in central office, not our own Principal. Your confusion probably comes from the fact that when families ask for the test, the math coordinator looks at the child's previous scores on MAP and other standardized tests, as well as math grades, presumably to have the opportunity of saying no immediately and saving themselves a couple of hours of work. At least, that's how our coordinator acted in our middle school. I suspect that these cases are so rare, coordinators check in with their supervisors to get a procedure. If your coordinator starts saying no, remind them they can check in with their hierarchy, because it's been done before, and there is a known procedure.

If there's a test/procedure, why shouldn't it be known to everyone? Why should a student at one school get the runaround when a student with similar ability at another be considered or even encouraged?

Because as people keep pointing out, it’s not so much a policy as an exception. The number of kids taking Algebra in 6th is small. Usually this comes about because a family is inquiring about it, either because their kid is far ahead in math and wants a greater challenge or the kid is new to the school system and already completed the prior coursework. Further, this is not something that MCPS wants as part of their normal math progression options because 1)they know taking ore-algebra creates a better foundation, 2) Its necessitates other logistics for MS, and 3)kids have to take 4yrs of math in HS by state requirement and not every kid wants to be taking a math beyond Calculus or an advance computer science course.

Families are not inquiring. You like to speculate a lot. It’s by map scores and grades at that particular school. I think it’s more about keeping kids at these lower rated schools who did not get into the magnet programs where they should be.

I don't know which school you are referring to, but no. Families have to inquire first. I don't know of any school that comes up to a family and says "hey, your kid scored 288 on MAP-M, so we want to place them in Algebra 1 next year". Because no one has been assigned that task, no one cares, and no one is looking at scores. It's the parents who start asking, if they are aware or interested enough, and then a math teacher will say "yikes, 288! heck yeah, I'll test this kid". Surely you don't expect a public school teacher to comb through thousands of test scores on their own volition?!

However, once the parents ask, yes, the school does look at the student's prior math record, just to see whether it would be feasible for them to place in an advanced class. For Algebra 1 in 6th, I don't know whether there is an official cut-off, because this track is not official! Someone in central office may say, if a math teacher asks, "yeah, if the student scores above a 255, why not give them a test this summer", and then if the student is at 254, maybe the teacher still goes ahead and lets them test. I strongly suspect it's that sort of thing.

Finally, I suspect that parents have started asking a WHOLE LOT MORE OFTEN since the start of the pandemic, when magnet middle schools started operating with a pool for eligible students and then a lottery. It shuts out dozens of very-high-achieving mathy kids, whose parents are then frustrated enough to ask for acceleration at their home schools! The old system was way better, because mathy kids just went to the STEM magnet and home schools didn't have as much accommodations to provide in terms of math acceleration.

Our school called families and offered them slots in Algebra in 6th. It's school specific. There was no test. I believe it was over the 250's consistently for a year. The guidance counselor handles it at registration time. We didn't have to inquire. It was either on the registration form or if kids didn't choose it, parents got called and offered a spot.

Magnets have always shut out kids as they only take 100 kids and often 1-3 students per school.

Everyone is speculating and making up stuff.

Which school was yours?

WPMS, of course!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Algebra 1 in 6th grade is not on any registration form to my knowledge.

My child took Algebra 1 in 6th grade after being in pool for the magnet but not getting picked. We specifically requested it, since the CES compacted math had been very easy and slow. The math coordinator at our home middle school makes these students take a test the summer before 6th grade to see if they can handle the class. I believe this is the standard procedure for families who request a higher-level class that is not publicly available, and it works for language classes too, since my other child was able to test into a higher-level class in our native language that wasn't the beginner one that's automatically offered.

There's a lot more to that story, including the fact that MCPS tries its best these days to prevent students from being accelerated beyond the normal tracks, in any subject, but in theory, that's how it works.

My mathy child took Honors Geo in 7th and will be bused to our high school for Algebra 2 in 8th. So far, it's all been easy, and I don't anticipate my child will have any trouble with pre-calc, AP calc, multi-variable, etc.

This is different from both the available-at-registration note and the MAP-criteria note, and I assume you're experience is different from that of those posters. Clearly some schools are facilitating this. To which one are you referring? This would allow those interested elsewhere to point to an example when advocating -- knowledge empowers.

PP you replied to. No school is facilitating this. There is a troll that wakes up every time 6th grade Algebra is mentioned, who then fills the thread with screeds about how certain schools in wealthy neighborhoods get all the advanced options. This is not true at all, and 6th grade algebra is advertised nowhere. Our personal experience in the summer of 2021 showed that MCPS is actively trying to PREVENT kids from accessing those classes. It wouldn't surprise me that at some point, they will just stop offering the test-in option.

So with that information in mind, I do have to add that certain neighborhoods tend to have more parents who want those classes for their kids, and therefore it creates a slightly larger pool of people who can inform one another that if they ask for a test, they can get a test. Their kid still needs to do BETTER than the students who have already taken the class! But there is probably more information floating around in wealthier neighborhoods than in others, about this possibility of testing into a class. My kid is one of 3 such accelerated kids in their grade of about 300 in the BCC cluster.

Your point person is the math coordinator of your middle school. Two years ago, our math coordinator referenced a curriculum supervisor, and I understood it was someone in central office, not our own Principal. Your confusion probably comes from the fact that when families ask for the test, the math coordinator looks at the child's previous scores on MAP and other standardized tests, as well as math grades, presumably to have the opportunity of saying no immediately and saving themselves a couple of hours of work. At least, that's how our coordinator acted in our middle school. I suspect that these cases are so rare, coordinators check in with their supervisors to get a procedure. If your coordinator starts saying no, remind them they can check in with their hierarchy, because it's been done before, and there is a known procedure.

If there's a test/procedure, why shouldn't it be known to everyone? Why should a student at one school get the runaround when a student with similar ability at another be considered or even encouraged?

Because as people keep pointing out, it’s not so much a policy as an exception. The number of kids taking Algebra in 6th is small. Usually this comes about because a family is inquiring about it, either because their kid is far ahead in math and wants a greater challenge or the kid is new to the school system and already completed the prior coursework. Further, this is not something that MCPS wants as part of their normal math progression options because 1)they know taking ore-algebra creates a better foundation, 2) Its necessitates other logistics for MS, and 3)kids have to take 4yrs of math in HS by state requirement and not every kid wants to be taking a math beyond Calculus or an advance computer science course.

Families are not inquiring. You like to speculate a lot. It’s by map scores and grades at that particular school. I think it’s more about keeping kids at these lower rated schools who did not get into the magnet programs where they should be.

I don't know which school you are referring to, but no. Families have to inquire first. I don't know of any school that comes up to a family and says "hey, your kid scored 288 on MAP-M, so we want to place them in Algebra 1 next year". Because no one has been assigned that task, no one cares, and no one is looking at scores. It's the parents who start asking, if they are aware or interested enough, and then a math teacher will say "yikes, 288! heck yeah, I'll test this kid". Surely you don't expect a public school teacher to comb through thousands of test scores on their own volition?!

However, once the parents ask, yes, the school does look at the student's prior math record, just to see whether it would be feasible for them to place in an advanced class. For Algebra 1 in 6th, I don't know whether there is an official cut-off, because this track is not official! Someone in central office may say, if a math teacher asks, "yeah, if the student scores above a 255, why not give them a test this summer", and then if the student is at 254, maybe the teacher still goes ahead and lets them test. I strongly suspect it's that sort of thing.

Finally, I suspect that parents have started asking a WHOLE LOT MORE OFTEN since the start of the pandemic, when magnet middle schools started operating with a pool for eligible students and then a lottery. It shuts out dozens of very-high-achieving mathy kids, whose parents are then frustrated enough to ask for acceleration at their home schools! The old system was way better, because mathy kids just went to the STEM magnet and home schools didn't have as much accommodations to provide in terms of math acceleration.

Our school called families and offered them slots in Algebra in 6th. It's school specific. There was no test. I believe it was over the 250's consistently for a year. The guidance counselor handles it at registration time. We didn't have to inquire. It was either on the registration form or if kids didn't choose it, parents got called and offered a spot.

Magnets have always shut out kids as they only take 100 kids and often 1-3 students per school.

Everyone is speculating and making up stuff.

Which school was yours?

WPMS, of course!

Fictitious school for a fictitious claim...

[Anonymous]

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Algebra 1 in 6th grade is not on any registration form to my knowledge.

My child took Algebra 1 in 6th grade after being in pool for the magnet but not getting picked. We specifically requested it, since the CES compacted math had been very easy and slow. The math coordinator at our home middle school makes these students take a test the summer before 6th grade to see if they can handle the class. I believe this is the standard procedure for families who request a higher-level class that is not publicly available, and it works for language classes too, since my other child was able to test into a higher-level class in our native language that wasn't the beginner one that's automatically offered.

There's a lot more to that story, including the fact that MCPS tries its best these days to prevent students from being accelerated beyond the normal tracks, in any subject, but in theory, that's how it works.

My mathy child took Honors Geo in 7th and will be bused to our high school for Algebra 2 in 8th. So far, it's all been easy, and I don't anticipate my child will have any trouble with pre-calc, AP calc, multi-variable, etc.

This is different from both the available-at-registration note and the MAP-criteria note, and I assume you're experience is different from that of those posters. Clearly some schools are facilitating this. To which one are you referring? This would allow those interested elsewhere to point to an example when advocating -- knowledge empowers.

PP you replied to. No school is facilitating this. There is a troll that wakes up every time 6th grade Algebra is mentioned, who then fills the thread with screeds about how certain schools in wealthy neighborhoods get all the advanced options. This is not true at all, and 6th grade algebra is advertised nowhere. Our personal experience in the summer of 2021 showed that MCPS is actively trying to PREVENT kids from accessing those classes. It wouldn't surprise me that at some point, they will just stop offering the test-in option.

So with that information in mind, I do have to add that certain neighborhoods tend to have more parents who want those classes for their kids, and therefore it creates a slightly larger pool of people who can inform one another that if they ask for a test, they can get a test. Their kid still needs to do BETTER than the students who have already taken the class! But there is probably more information floating around in wealthier neighborhoods than in others, about this possibility of testing into a class. My kid is one of 3 such accelerated kids in their grade of about 300 in the BCC cluster.

Your point person is the math coordinator of your middle school. Two years ago, our math coordinator referenced a curriculum supervisor, and I understood it was someone in central office, not our own Principal. Your confusion probably comes from the fact that when families ask for the test, the math coordinator looks at the child's previous scores on MAP and other standardized tests, as well as math grades, presumably to have the opportunity of saying no immediately and saving themselves a couple of hours of work. At least, that's how our coordinator acted in our middle school. I suspect that these cases are so rare, coordinators check in with their supervisors to get a procedure. If your coordinator starts saying no, remind them they can check in with their hierarchy, because it's been done before, and there is a known procedure.

If there's a test/procedure, why shouldn't it be known to everyone? Why should a student at one school get the runaround when a student with similar ability at another be considered or even encouraged?

Because cohorts matter. MCPS doesn't want to pay for a class with <10kids. Especially because those kids learn math better at home than from the school teacher anyway.

This is why MCPS prefers to send outliers to magnet TPMS, and leave the high performing W cluster kids at their W cluster schools where they have enough peers to fill accelerated classes and have a huge math club going beyond curriculum.

They abandoned local cohort consideration except via the proxy of the FARMS rate adjustment for the qualifying MAP score, and whatever cohort-consideration effect that might provide is nearly muted by the lottery, which replaced ranking of applicants to take the true outliers.

As for not wanting to pay for kids without a cohort, that's simply inequitable, and keeping related information from broad availability is doubly so.

Who WOULD pay for it? Usually PTA's pay, so if the school doesn't have strong PTA or the PTA president sucks, there is no money to pay for it. It wasn't that big of a deal not to have it. It's only the ultra competitive parents who insist on those things. We had very few activities in MS. There is no such thing as equity.

In MCPS, principals are prohibited from taking PTA $ towards teacher salaries/making such a class available. If a school is allowing it, they are shifting already-allocated MCPS $ to do so.

It may be about catering this way to a strong PTA, but, then, other PTAs/parents should be able to ride on the coattails of the successful PTA -- if they can point to it as an example. Not wanting to divulge the name(a) of schools facilitating Algebra in 6th (beyond one-off highly exceptional cases) is, essentially, opportunity hoarding.

Of course, having loads of PTA cash for things for which principals are permitted to use it can make for a better student experience, anyway.

They have been names in other threads. Principals use their funds to pay for those things and pta steps in with the other needs ours schools pay for themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://www2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/curriculum/math/middle

Math 6/7/8 is Prealgebra. It can be done in 1, 2, or 3 years in Middle School, depending on Elementary School preparation.

AMP+ was/is a 2-year program that starts in 6th grade, doing "Math. 6/7/8" in 2 years, leading to algebra 1in 8th.
It's possible that if a student excels in AMP+ in 6th, they could persuade school to jump to Algebra 1 in 7th.

It is less advanced than AIM / Investigations into Mathematics: 1-year Math 7/8 prealgebra done in 6th grade, mainly for students who did 2-year Compacted Math 4/5/6 in 4th and 5th grade. This leads to Algebra in 7th.

It is more accelerated than taking on-level Math 6/7/8 over 3 years, leading to Algebra 1 in 9th.

(Yes, some students do Algebra 1 in 6th. Please let's not have another thread rehashing that.)

Where's your evidence that a program completing 6/7/8 (or AMP6+AMP7) in one year exists? This seems like the "wealthy potomac schools" thing all over again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok so I guess we are going to go round this circle again. I’m perfectly happy having my child take Algebra in 7th. I’m not in some huge race to…what exactly is everyone racing toward? My kid has those outlier math MAP scores. He’s fine with the regular accelerated path.

My kid choose to do Algebra in 6th but I don't see the huge advantage to it and would have been fine doing it in 7th too. 7th is still very accelerated as many private and other school systems don't start Algebra till 8th or 9th.

Whether it's good for one kid or other to do it in 6th vs. 7th isn't the issue. Having it readily available for kids at some MCPS schools but not at others is.

Your kid got the choice. Which school?

It doesn’t matter because it’s not a school you would send your kids to. Where are your kids in school?