Conservative confusion over schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ever since Glenn Youngkin squeaked to victory on a bad-faith platform that exploited suburban fears about public schools, Republicans everywhere have been adopting the playbook. Yell about “parental rights” and attack the phantom CRT menace. Lambast “equity” programs, especially if commitments to those can be juxtaposed against changes to academic programs that are tailored to higher-achieving students like honors classes.

Obviously we all know beyond being a cynical attempt to win elections, the real agenda behind this attack on education is to dumb down the future electorate since poorly educated people tend to vote more conservative. It’s also about trying to redirect taxpayer dollars to fund public schools to for-profit companies that run charter schools and also to religious-based private schools.

In Florida, Ron DeSantis has taken it a bit further and, in the name of protesting “liberal indoctrination” at post-secondary education (something that doesn’t actually exist, like CRT being taught in grade schools, but the dumbed down and frightened electorate doesn’t grasp this) but deliberately doing things like trying to turn a public school into a bastion of right-wing, reactionary education (see what’s happening at the New College).

But this has all gone completely meta now. Even as Republicans complain that the focus on equity in K-12 is resulting in things like honors programs being emphasized, DeSantis (whose policies and rhetoric are copied as much as Youngkin’s) is planning to do with AP courses IN THEIR ENTIRETY in Florida high schools. Because they’re too woke or something.

https://www.tampabay.com/news/education/2023/02/18/4-things-know-about-ron-desantis-idea-slash-ap-courses-florida/

Make it make sense.

Not only that, Youngkin sent out a bat signal and got far right activists from all around the country to converge on NoVA school board meetings pretending to be local parents shrieking about everything and anything including imaginary CRT, resulting in school board members and school officials receiving horrific threats to rape and murder them and their children, burn their houses down and so on.

Calling it bad-faith is too gentle.

You are willfully ignoring what happened. Read the Grand Jury report.

The rape and how it was handled was bad, yes. But the far right also willfully ignored a lot of other aspects of the case that were out of the district's hands and made a lot of wrongful accusations, along with their far-right CRT lies and everything else. And despite the rape, NOTHING warranted those far right loons storming meetings lying and falsely pretending they were district parents, and making horrific threats to rape, torture, burn alive, murder school board members, school officials and their families. That was utterly disgusting, terroristic behavior by the far right and you may not willfully ignore that either.

This is what I remember about the parents who "stormed" the meeting.

As much as I feel bad for what happened in that school, you don't report a crime by getting violent at a school board meeting. Take it up with the police. That is what the school did - they reported it to the police and followed procedure. The right wing screamed about "coverup" but the reality was that they were NOT LEGALLY ALLOWED to divulge details of what transpired. I think the rapist kid should have been expelled and arrested rather than ending up in another school but the lack of arrest is on the police, not the school. Also, I think this has less to do with being trans than it does about the rapist kid being a predator. Being trans does not somehow automatically make one a predator and rapist. He probably would have raped someone even if he wasn't trans.

And again, Loudoun school officials were getting dozens of horrific, violent threats every single day. That's horrible and unjustifiable. https://wtop.com/loudoun-county/2021/10/loudoun-co-school-board-receiving-violent-threats-school-says/ The people making threats are still making threats even today, and the calls come from all over the country.

Also, I recall reading about numerous far right activists who were identified disrupting Loudoun school board meetings lying and pretending to be parents who were from as far away as North Carolina. Some of them also turned up tied into the January 6th attack on the US Capitol. I recall the far right woman who was first questioned about the Moore County NC incident involving the transformers that were shot ahead of a drag event also was involved in the Loudon County protests. These are not nice people and were not "concerned Loudon parents" - they are extremists and domestic terrorists.

But people like Benny Johnson don't acknowledge any of that part of the story at all.

Links?

Stop wasting everyone's time - you're just going to say "meh not credible" regardless of the source and continue gaslighting like the denialist liar that you are.

So no links, got it. Moving on...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ever since Glenn Youngkin squeaked to victory on a bad-faith platform that exploited suburban fears about public schools, Republicans everywhere have been adopting the playbook. Yell about “parental rights” and attack the phantom CRT menace. Lambast “equity” programs, especially if commitments to those can be juxtaposed against changes to academic programs that are tailored to higher-achieving students like honors classes.

Obviously we all know beyond being a cynical attempt to win elections, the real agenda behind this attack on education is to dumb down the future electorate since poorly educated people tend to vote more conservative. It’s also about trying to redirect taxpayer dollars to fund public schools to for-profit companies that run charter schools and also to religious-based private schools.

In Florida, Ron DeSantis has taken it a bit further and, in the name of protesting “liberal indoctrination” at post-secondary education (something that doesn’t actually exist, like CRT being taught in grade schools, but the dumbed down and frightened electorate doesn’t grasp this) but deliberately doing things like trying to turn a public school into a bastion of right-wing, reactionary education (see what’s happening at the New College).

But this has all gone completely meta now. Even as Republicans complain that the focus on equity in K-12 is resulting in things like honors programs being emphasized, DeSantis (whose policies and rhetoric are copied as much as Youngkin’s) is planning to do with AP courses IN THEIR ENTIRETY in Florida high schools. Because they’re too woke or something.

https://www.tampabay.com/news/education/2023/02/18/4-things-know-about-ron-desantis-idea-slash-ap-courses-florida/

Make it make sense.

Not only that, Youngkin sent out a bat signal and got far right activists from all around the country to converge on NoVA school board meetings pretending to be local parents shrieking about everything and anything including imaginary CRT, resulting in school board members and school officials receiving horrific threats to rape and murder them and their children, burn their houses down and so on.

Calling it bad-faith is too gentle.

You are willfully ignoring what happened. Read the Grand Jury report.

The rape and how it was handled was bad, yes. But the far right also willfully ignored a lot of other aspects of the case that were out of the district's hands and made a lot of wrongful accusations, along with their far-right CRT lies and everything else. And despite the rape, NOTHING warranted those far right loons storming meetings lying and falsely pretending they were district parents, and making horrific threats to rape, torture, burn alive, murder school board members, school officials and their families. That was utterly disgusting, terroristic behavior by the far right and you may not willfully ignore that either.

This is what I remember about the parents who "stormed" the meeting.

As much as I feel bad for what happened in that school, you don't report a crime by getting violent at a school board meeting. Take it up with the police. That is what the school did - they reported it to the police and followed procedure. The right wing screamed about "coverup" but the reality was that they were NOT LEGALLY ALLOWED to divulge details of what transpired. I think the rapist kid should have been expelled and arrested rather than ending up in another school but the lack of arrest is on the police, not the school. Also, I think this has less to do with being trans than it does about the rapist kid being a predator. Being trans does not somehow automatically make one a predator and rapist. He probably would have raped someone even if he wasn't trans.

And again, Loudoun school officials were getting dozens of horrific, violent threats every single day. That's horrible and unjustifiable. https://wtop.com/loudoun-county/2021/10/loudoun-co-school-board-receiving-violent-threats-school-says/ The people making threats are still making threats even today, and the calls come from all over the country.

Also, I recall reading about numerous far right activists who were identified disrupting Loudoun school board meetings lying and pretending to be parents who were from as far away as North Carolina. Some of them also turned up tied into the January 6th attack on the US Capitol. I recall the far right woman who was first questioned about the Moore County NC incident involving the transformers that were shot ahead of a drag event also was involved in the Loudon County protests. These are not nice people and were not "concerned Loudon parents" - they are extremists and domestic terrorists.

But people like Benny Johnson don't acknowledge any of that part of the story at all.

Are you misinformed or lying? https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/loudoun-county-school-board-fires-superintendent-after-explosive-grand-jury-report/ar-AA150Vs8

To repeat, the grand jury report DOES. NOT. MAKE. THE. HORRIFIC. RIGHT. WING. DEATH. THREATS. GO. AWAY.

We've asked you to link any evidence of these horrific, terroristic threats. Statements from the school are not credible given the circumstances. Show me all the indictments for the "terrorism."

Most parents would get loud if they were publicly called liars for saying their daughter was raped, after their daughter was raped. The dad wasnt violent and laid no hands on any school official.

Btw, as we pointed out upthread, none of the kids involved were trans. None. Not one. The left introduced the concept that the parents were transphobes to rile people up.

+100
Exactly. Unreal that this has to be explained to the PP. Talk about gaslighting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teachers should not talk to 3rd graders about sex. This shouldnt be controversial. It was common sense 5 years ago. This is why DeSantis has appeal, because you are correct, the left is terrifying when it comes to the bizarre insistence that children should learn about things like dildos and oral sex at school.

That’s just it. You erected a straw man. Third grade teachers *don’t* talk to third graders about sex. The fact that you think they do makes you either gullible or a lying liar who lies.

Then its all a non-issue and no one should be upset about the new restrictions.

Well, no, they should be teaching children about different kinds of families, etc. which has nothing to do with teaching about “sex.”

I am also against banning books. If that’s your thing, leave my country.

I dont care if my kids learn about different types of families at school. This is something they pick up just by being alive, going to peoples houses, and hanging out in their neighborhood. It doesnt require special instruction.

I am also against banning books. But I dont think that means we should buy any and all books for public school libraries. No normal person thinks we should stock public school libraries with terrorist propaganda, porn, etc. It's normal to believe age-appropriate, educational material.

I don’t care what you want. The rest of us want it. This is important. Because schools exist to educate children for what society needs, and that often means exposing them to ideas that are contrary to what their parents value. This is particularly important when the parents are bigoted, as you appear to be.

DP. I see. So if, for instance, your child was read to or given a book on say, abortion being murder, you'd be ok with that, right? I happen to be pro-choice, but your "argument" is so illogical that you just look ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DeSantis/FL are not only going after AP courses, they're also looking at a "classical and Christian" alternative to the SAT.

https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-politics/202...e-board-ap-sat/?lctg=136252390

No APs will be a setback for many students. They will be far behind their out-of-state peers. Also, if he goes forward with an "alternative to the SAT" that will HUGELY limit the number of colleges and universities those kids can attend.

I feel particularly bad for teenage Floridian girls right now - invasive inquiries about their menstrual cycles, severe restrictions put on their reproductive health, and now having their collegiate future stripped away from them. It's like Florida is sliding straight into a dystopian hellscape right out of the Handmaid's Tale.

You are so uninformed, pp. Find other sources. Find out what DeSantis actually said and what he wants to do.

+1
The blatant misinformation (lies) the PP is promoting are just gross. It's beyond even the usual hyperbole at this point. Just straight up lies that the left eats up without bothering to fact check.

You're gross and are promoting blatant misinformation (lies).

Again

DeSantis is in fact proposing getting rid of all things College Board. https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/education/article272474953.html

Dual enrollment still requires a placement test (PSAT etc) and there are only three participating universities in the country doing Florida dual enrollment. And, dual enrollment only covers around 16% of graduating Florida seniors in a given year.

The gross and blatant misinformation being referenced is conveninently bolded for you. No one's arguing that DeSantis has proposed doing away with AP classes - as many public and private schools have already done. Their kids have no issues with college acceptances (but then, you know that). Their "collegiate future" has hardly been "stripped away from them."

The misinformation refers to your idiotic claim that DeSantis had anything to do with the menstrual issue - that was a state committee that didn't involve him and in fact, has not gone through.

Oh, and your "dystopian hellscape" was a nice hyperbolic touch, but pretty hackneyed among your set. Be more original.

LOL yeah right - DeSantis is suddenly asserting himself to take more control of the schools after they backed down on the menstrual cycle thing..

https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-politics/2023/02/16/fhsaa-desantis-board-private-homeschool-prayer-announcements-menstrual/

You know your Tampa Bay news is behind a firewall, right? No one can read it without a subscription. That's probably by design on your part.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Reading this thread shows me that the title SHOULD be "Democrats confused over schools."

+1
Absolutely. These people have zero self-awareness.

[Anonymous]

All the Democrats I know want all public schools to provide quality education and not lie to students. Conservatives are triggered by that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Authoritarians eliminate or degrade education to ensure the opinions of "the leader" supersede facts and rationale.

You see it in this thread where people repeat right wing mantra rather than looking at primary sources. Example: In Ohio, the governor literally said that he put off the Biden Administration in helping with the train derailment and yet, we see people castigating Secretary Pete and the President for their lack of Federal response.

Unless or until we can get everyone on the same page in terms of basic facts and how to parse information, we will be at risk for authoritarianism in this country.

Degrading public education and using public dollars for religious schools is a losing proposition.

This is such BS, I can't believe you had the nerve to post it. Shame on you. Gov. DeWine and FEMA have been working together from the beginning.

https://www.snopes.com/news/2023/02/17/ohio-train-derailment-fema/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DeSantis/FL are not only going after AP courses, they're also looking at a "classical and Christian" alternative to the SAT.

https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-politics/202...e-board-ap-sat/?lctg=136252390

No APs will be a setback for many students. They will be far behind their out-of-state peers. Also, if he goes forward with an "alternative to the SAT" that will HUGELY limit the number of colleges and universities those kids can attend.

I feel particularly bad for teenage Floridian girls right now - invasive inquiries about their menstrual cycles, severe restrictions put on their reproductive health, and now having their collegiate future stripped away from them. It's like Florida is sliding straight into a dystopian hellscape right out of the Handmaid's Tale.

You are so uninformed, pp. Find other sources. Find out what DeSantis actually said and what he wants to do.

+1
The blatant misinformation (lies) the PP is promoting are just gross. It's beyond even the usual hyperbole at this point. Just straight up lies that the left eats up without bothering to fact check.

You're gross and are promoting blatant misinformation (lies).

Again

DeSantis is in fact proposing getting rid of all things College Board. https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/education/article272474953.html

Dual enrollment still requires a placement test (PSAT etc) and there are only three participating universities in the country doing Florida dual enrollment. And, dual enrollment only covers around 16% of graduating Florida seniors in a given year.

The gross and blatant misinformation being referenced is conveninently bolded for you. No one's arguing that DeSantis has proposed doing away with AP classes - as many public and private schools have already done. Their kids have no issues with college acceptances (but then, you know that). Their "collegiate future" has hardly been "stripped away from them."

The misinformation refers to your idiotic claim that DeSantis had anything to do with the menstrual issue - that was a state committee that didn't involve him and in fact, has not gone through.

Oh, and your "dystopian hellscape" was a nice hyperbolic touch, but pretty hackneyed among your set. Be more original.

LOL yeah right - DeSantis is suddenly asserting himself to take more control of the schools after they backed down on the menstrual cycle thing..

https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-politics/2023/02/16/fhsaa-desantis-board-private-homeschool-prayer-announcements-menstrual/

DeSantis had nothing to do with the menstrual thing.

+1
Facts don't matter to the PP. Their blind hatred of DeSantis is all that matters; making things up comes naturally to that crowd.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:All the Democrats I know want all public schools to provide quality education and not lie to students. Conservatives are triggered by that.

My understanding is that democrats want to lie to students with fake history from the 1619 Project and various philosophies of IX Kendi.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teachers should not talk to 3rd graders about sex. This shouldnt be controversial. It was common sense 5 years ago. This is why DeSantis has appeal, because you are correct, the left is terrifying when it comes to the bizarre insistence that children should learn about things like dildos and oral sex at school.

That’s just it. You erected a straw man. Third grade teachers *don’t* talk to third graders about sex. The fact that you think they do makes you either gullible or a lying liar who lies.

Then its all a non-issue and no one should be upset about the new restrictions.

Well, no, they should be teaching children about different kinds of families, etc. which has nothing to do with teaching about “sex.”

I am also against banning books. If that’s your thing, leave my country.

I dont care if my kids learn about different types of families at school. This is something they pick up just by being alive, going to peoples houses, and hanging out in their neighborhood. It doesnt require special instruction.

I am also against banning books. But I dont think that means we should buy any and all books for public school libraries. No normal person thinks we should stock public school libraries with terrorist propaganda, porn, etc. It's normal to believe age-appropriate, educational material.

I don’t care what you want. The rest of us want it. This is important. Because schools exist to educate children for what society needs, and that often means exposing them to ideas that are contrary to what their parents value. This is particularly important when the parents are bigoted, as you appear to be.

DP
You want porn and terrorist propaganda? Do you even believe what you are saying? Or, are you just babbling back and someone you disagree with?

When people show you who they are, believe them.

They also want CRT in schools, if you read their responses.

They want sexual material and CRT in schools. This isnt a misunderstanding.

There is no CRT in schools. If you believe learning about slavery, heroes of the underground railroad and the horrors of reconstruction or system racism in banking and segregation are CRT then I don't know what to tell you.

No one is claiming any of the above is CRT. You seem confused between what is actual history and what is an underlying narrative that the US (and white people, specifically) are - and always will be - irredeemably racist. All school kids already learn about the bolded.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Authoritarians eliminate or degrade education to ensure the opinions of "the leader" supersede facts and rationale.

You see it in this thread where people repeat right wing mantra rather than looking at primary sources. Example: In Ohio, the governor literally said that he put off the Biden Administration in helping with the train derailment and yet, we see people castigating Secretary Pete and the President for their lack of Federal response.

Unless or until we can get everyone on the same page in terms of basic facts and how to parse information, we will be at risk for authoritarianism in this country.

Degrading public education and using public dollars for religious schools is a losing proposition.

When Harvards dropped the SAT and ACT, it was hailed as a progressive act of fairness that would increase opportunity for "bipocs." When Florida even considers the same thing, they are authoritarians seeking to degrade education.

I mean next thing, DeSantis is going to make Minnie Mouse wear a burqa, amirite? All those crazy Christofascists in Florida!

Exactly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:23 Schools in Baltimore have zero students proficient in math, state tests reveal.

https://ktxs.com/

But yes, let's talk endlessly about this culture war ideology. What is really important to you?

Thank you for posting this. Now we wait while the idiot PP comes and tells us to shut up about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All the Democrats I know want all public schools to provide quality education and not lie to students. Conservatives are triggered by that.

My understanding is that democrats want to lie to students with fake history from the 1619 Project and various philosophies of IX Kendi.

Your understanding is false. There are some valid elements to consider from the 1619 project and it is a unique lens to examine parts of US history, but it will take decades to debate and parse documentation to arrive at any truth. Until then, why is it harmful to have the conversation?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Authoritarians eliminate or degrade education to ensure the opinions of "the leader" supersede facts and rationale.

You see it in this thread where people repeat right wing mantra rather than looking at primary sources. Example: In Ohio, the governor literally said that he put off the Biden Administration in helping with the train derailment and yet, we see people castigating Secretary Pete and the President for their lack of Federal response.

Unless or until we can get everyone on the same page in terms of basic facts and how to parse information, we will be at risk for authoritarianism in this country.

Degrading public education and using public dollars for religious schools is a losing proposition.

When Harvards dropped the SAT and ACT, it was hailed as a progressive act of fairness that would increase opportunity for "bipocs." When Florida even considers the same thing, they are authoritarians seeking to degrade education.

I mean next thing, DeSantis is going to make Minnie Mouse wear a burqa, amirite? All those crazy Christofascists in Florida!

Exactly.

ACT/SAT measure "aptitude" whereas the AP measures actual knowledge, so, no, not exactly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teachers should not talk to 3rd graders about sex. This shouldnt be controversial. It was common sense 5 years ago. This is why DeSantis has appeal, because you are correct, the left is terrifying when it comes to the bizarre insistence that children should learn about things like dildos and oral sex at school.

That’s just it. You erected a straw man. Third grade teachers *don’t* talk to third graders about sex. The fact that you think they do makes you either gullible or a lying liar who lies.

Then its all a non-issue and no one should be upset about the new restrictions.

Well, no, they should be teaching children about different kinds of families, etc. which has nothing to do with teaching about “sex.”

I am also against banning books. If that’s your thing, leave my country.

I dont care if my kids learn about different types of families at school. This is something they pick up just by being alive, going to peoples houses, and hanging out in their neighborhood. It doesnt require special instruction.

I am also against banning books. But I dont think that means we should buy any and all books for public school libraries. No normal person thinks we should stock public school libraries with terrorist propaganda, porn, etc. It's normal to believe age-appropriate, educational material.

I don’t care what you want. The rest of us want it. This is important. Because schools exist to educate children for what society needs, and that often means exposing them to ideas that are contrary to what their parents value. This is particularly important when the parents are bigoted, as you appear to be.

DP
You want porn and terrorist propaganda? Do you even believe what you are saying? Or, are you just babbling back and someone you disagree with?

When people show you who they are, believe them.

They also want CRT in schools, if you read their responses.

They want sexual material and CRT in schools. This isnt a misunderstanding.

There is no CRT in schools. If you believe learning about slavery, heroes of the underground railroad and the horrors of reconstruction or system racism in banking and segregation are CRT then I don't know what to tell you.

No one is claiming any of the above is CRT. You seem confused between what is actual history and what is an underlying narrative that the US (and white people, specifically) are - and always will be - irredeemably racist. All school kids already learn about the bolded.

What I cited that you bolded, most on the right consider to be "CRT" - so until the idiots who rally against it understand the difference, I will stand by my statement. Also, CRT does not exist in any elementary or high schools.