TJ Students by FCPS Pyramid 2022-23

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
That really depends on how the holding is phrased. Are you counting on this Court to rule narrowly? I'd think think it's more likely we get a language barring the use of race in admissions that we get language restricting the holding to the university level.

FCPS is claiming they are not using race in admissions to TJ. If a county opened a brand new school with the current admissions policy, there would be no case.
The racial discrimination is a finding by the judge that FCPS made these changes with intent to discriminate against Asians.
LCPS was more blatant in putting in a maximum quota per school, and claiming they weren't using geography as a proxy for race.

This. The supporters of the admissions change want to pretend the factual record of the motivations behind the change doesn't exist and that the new policy can only be judged in the abstract. It is by no means clear, and in fact seems rather unlikely, that this will fly. There will be some language in at least one of the pending Supreme Court cases that those challenging the TJ changes will latch onto.

Didn't the later judge state they couldn't show any harm done since the selection was still roughly 70% Asian even after the changes?

Yes, the group in question is doing better than any other so hard to show harm from these changes.

Unless unintelligent and unwise fcps board members put it in wring they want to see fewer Asian students at TJ.

No, 1 board member sharing her view that the new policy was anti Asian does not mean that the goal of ANY of the BOD members was to result in fewer Asian kids at TJ.

https://www.fairfaxtimes.com/articles/fairfax_county/school-board-members-called-process-for-tj-admissions-changes-anti-asian-racist-embarrassing/article_7ba0320e-74a0-11ec-bf93-4bf5ff6732bd.html

"...school board member Abrar Omeish wrote a text to fellow board member Stella Pekarsky about the admissions changes: “I mean there has been an anti asian feel underlying some of this, hate to say it lol.” And she pressed send.
Pekarsky, now the board chair, responded: “…I always told people that talking about TJ is a stupid waste of tome [sic]. It’s about making a political point.” Speaking about Asians, Omeish answered: “Of course it is…They’re discriminated against in this process too.”"

True, and the fact that TJ remains overwhelming Asian suggests it never happened.

it would be 80% without any illegal discrimination against Asians.

It would be a lot less than 80% if FCPS had long ago abandoned the outdated practice of standardized testing as a mechanism for evaluating applicants.

And it would certainly be less if FCPS actually engaged in a process that sought to admit students of varying interests and backgrounds, thus creating the sort of strengthened academic community that is backed by decades of peer-reviewed research.

Yes, the old process outlived it's time and was easily manipulated by a few $$$ in outside enrichment. The net effect was subpar students were often selected and made the place toxic.

More sub-par students are admitted after the discriminatory admissions changes were implemented 2 years ago.

And TJ became more toxic since unprepared and sub-par students are more likely to fail out, struggle, have less time for 8th period activities and be frustrated etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The LCPS Academies model with kids going to their base school for History, English, PE, foreign Language/music, and then going to the Academy (or TJ in this case) for the other day to do Science, Math, Tech types of classes makes SO MUCH SENSE!

It allows kids to keep their base school connections, reduced commuting burdens, gives TWICE as many kids access to very top-level STEM classes/peers, and allows the specialty school to actually focus on the SPECIALTY (STEM) without being bogged down with kids who can't pass English or Spanish or whatever.

Let TJ focus on STEM and let twice as many kids have access.

TJ is designed to be a full-service high school. The only reason it has such a strong national reputation when compared with AOS/AET is BECAUSE it's a full-service high school.

You are chasing prestige and that prestige will go away immediately if TJ transitions to an academy model, and besides, it's not built with that in mind. You have tons of rooms in that building that are built for humanities classes. You have two gyms, an auditorium, and a black box theatre. And that building cost $100 million and was completed five years ago.

You're out of your mind if you think the academy model is either possible or a good idea.

Lots of high schools have two gyms and an auditorium, not sure what a black box theatre is. TJ doesn't have its high reputation because of its humanities classes or its black box theatre, though those are probably very good too. It has its reputation because of its math and science classes. A club that can put a satellite in space.
Physics classes that other university professors come to see how they are teaching.

Two things:

1) You completely missed the point - if the conversation is about turning TJ into an academy program, you can't do that in the current building without wasting an incredible amount of space and money. That building is designed to be a full-service high school and it's not like you can just take the humanities classrooms that are in there and convert them into STEM ready spaces in the blink of an eye. One imagines a building where the kids are running around in the lab spaces and entire wings of the building go totally unused for the entire year.

2) You are GROSSLY overestimating the level of teaching that goes on at TJ in comparison with other highly-ranked STEM academies or schools. What separates TJ from the rest of the schools in Northern Virginia is an exceptional STEM program, but what separates it from the other STEM academies that are out there is the ability to have a full-service high school experience at the same time as you're getting the world-class STEM education. Most of the other highly ranked high schools that are out there have maybe 400-600 students or even fewer. Stuy and Bronx Science are comparable, but few others are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
That really depends on how the holding is phrased. Are you counting on this Court to rule narrowly? I'd think think it's more likely we get a language barring the use of race in admissions that we get language restricting the holding to the university level.

FCPS is claiming they are not using race in admissions to TJ. If a county opened a brand new school with the current admissions policy, there would be no case.
The racial discrimination is a finding by the judge that FCPS made these changes with intent to discriminate against Asians.
LCPS was more blatant in putting in a maximum quota per school, and claiming they weren't using geography as a proxy for race.

This. The supporters of the admissions change want to pretend the factual record of the motivations behind the change doesn't exist and that the new policy can only be judged in the abstract. It is by no means clear, and in fact seems rather unlikely, that this will fly. There will be some language in at least one of the pending Supreme Court cases that those challenging the TJ changes will latch onto.

Didn't the later judge state they couldn't show any harm done since the selection was still roughly 70% Asian even after the changes?

Yes, the group in question is doing better than any other so hard to show harm from these changes.

Unless unintelligent and unwise fcps board members put it in wring they want to see fewer Asian students at TJ.

No, 1 board member sharing her view that the new policy was anti Asian does not mean that the goal of ANY of the BOD members was to result in fewer Asian kids at TJ.

https://www.fairfaxtimes.com/articles/fairfax_county/school-board-members-called-process-for-tj-admissions-changes-anti-asian-racist-embarrassing/article_7ba0320e-74a0-11ec-bf93-4bf5ff6732bd.html

"...school board member Abrar Omeish wrote a text to fellow board member Stella Pekarsky about the admissions changes: “I mean there has been an anti asian feel underlying some of this, hate to say it lol.” And she pressed send.
Pekarsky, now the board chair, responded: “…I always told people that talking about TJ is a stupid waste of tome [sic]. It’s about making a political point.” Speaking about Asians, Omeish answered: “Of course it is…They’re discriminated against in this process too.”"

True, and the fact that TJ remains overwhelming Asian suggests it never happened.

it would be 80% without any illegal discrimination against Asians.

Exactly, NBA is about 80% blacks and when diversity plan is implemented in favor of Asians, whites and Hispanics and NBA becomes 60% blacks, are you still going to argue there is no discrimination against black players because blacks are overwhelmingly over-represented at 60%? GTFOH.

The NBA is irrelevant. It has no obligation to provide fair and equal access unlike public schools.

As an employer, it certainly does. They are probably required to place a 'we are an equal opportunity employer' poster too.

You do realize that a lot of people work for the NBA who are not players, right? Or do you only care about the ones who make millions because money and prestige are your only focus?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
That really depends on how the holding is phrased. Are you counting on this Court to rule narrowly? I'd think think it's more likely we get a language barring the use of race in admissions that we get language restricting the holding to the university level.

FCPS is claiming they are not using race in admissions to TJ. If a county opened a brand new school with the current admissions policy, there would be no case.
The racial discrimination is a finding by the judge that FCPS made these changes with intent to discriminate against Asians.
LCPS was more blatant in putting in a maximum quota per school, and claiming they weren't using geography as a proxy for race.

This. The supporters of the admissions change want to pretend the factual record of the motivations behind the change doesn't exist and that the new policy can only be judged in the abstract. It is by no means clear, and in fact seems rather unlikely, that this will fly. There will be some language in at least one of the pending Supreme Court cases that those challenging the TJ changes will latch onto.

Didn't the later judge state they couldn't show any harm done since the selection was still roughly 70% Asian even after the changes?

Yes, the group in question is doing better than any other so hard to show harm from these changes.

Unless unintelligent and unwise fcps board members put it in wring they want to see fewer Asian students at TJ.

No, 1 board member sharing her view that the new policy was anti Asian does not mean that the goal of ANY of the BOD members was to result in fewer Asian kids at TJ.

https://www.fairfaxtimes.com/articles/fairfax_county/school-board-members-called-process-for-tj-admissions-changes-anti-asian-racist-embarrassing/article_7ba0320e-74a0-11ec-bf93-4bf5ff6732bd.html

"...school board member Abrar Omeish wrote a text to fellow board member Stella Pekarsky about the admissions changes: “I mean there has been an anti asian feel underlying some of this, hate to say it lol.” And she pressed send.
Pekarsky, now the board chair, responded: “…I always told people that talking about TJ is a stupid waste of tome [sic]. It’s about making a political point.” Speaking about Asians, Omeish answered: “Of course it is…They’re discriminated against in this process too.”"

True, and the fact that TJ remains overwhelming Asian suggests it never happened.

it would be 80% without any illegal discrimination against Asians.

Exactly, NBA is about 80% blacks and when diversity plan is implemented in favor of Asians, whites and Hispanics and NBA becomes 60% blacks, are you still going to argue there is no discrimination against black players because blacks are overwhelmingly over-represented at 60%? GTFOH.

The NBA is a.... private enterprise.... not a publicly funded educational opportunity....

True, but several posters here are being intentionally obtuse to fit a square peg in a round hole.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The LCPS Academies model with kids going to their base school for History, English, PE, foreign Language/music, and then going to the Academy (or TJ in this case) for the other day to do Science, Math, Tech types of classes makes SO MUCH SENSE!

It allows kids to keep their base school connections, reduced commuting burdens, gives TWICE as many kids access to very top-level STEM classes/peers, and allows the specialty school to actually focus on the SPECIALTY (STEM) without being bogged down with kids who can't pass English or Spanish or whatever.

Let TJ focus on STEM and let twice as many kids have access.

TJ is designed to be a full-service high school. The only reason it has such a strong national reputation when compared with AOS/AET is BECAUSE it's a full-service high school.

You are chasing prestige and that prestige will go away immediately if TJ transitions to an academy model, and besides, it's not built with that in mind. You have tons of rooms in that building that are built for humanities classes. You have two gyms, an auditorium, and a black box theatre. And that building cost $100 million and was completed five years ago.

You're out of your mind if you think the academy model is either possible or a good idea.

Lots of high schools have two gyms and an auditorium, not sure what a black box theatre is. TJ doesn't have its high reputation because of its humanities classes or its black box theatre, though those are probably very good too. It has its reputation because of its math and science classes. A club that can put a satellite in space.
Physics classes that other university professors come to see how they are teaching.

Two things:

1) You completely missed the point - if the conversation is about turning TJ into an academy program, you can't do that in the current building without wasting an incredible amount of space and money. That building is designed to be a full-service high school and it's not like you can just take the humanities classrooms that are in there and convert them into STEM ready spaces in the blink of an eye. One imagines a building where the kids are running around in the lab spaces and entire wings of the building go totally unused for the entire year.

2) You are GROSSLY overestimating the level of teaching that goes on at TJ in comparison with other highly-ranked STEM academies or schools. What separates TJ from the rest of the schools in Northern Virginia is an exceptional STEM program, but what separates it from the other STEM academies that are out there is the ability to have a full-service high school experience at the same time as you're getting the world-class STEM education. Most of the other highly ranked high schools that are out there have maybe 400-600 students or even fewer. Stuy and Bronx Science are comparable, but few others are.

A larger capacity is unrelated to being a full service high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
That really depends on how the holding is phrased. Are you counting on this Court to rule narrowly? I'd think think it's more likely we get a language barring the use of race in admissions that we get language restricting the holding to the university level.

FCPS is claiming they are not using race in admissions to TJ. If a county opened a brand new school with the current admissions policy, there would be no case.
The racial discrimination is a finding by the judge that FCPS made these changes with intent to discriminate against Asians.
LCPS was more blatant in putting in a maximum quota per school, and claiming they weren't using geography as a proxy for race.

Except that's illegal in the United States. Admission is race blind. They do not know an applicant's race just their student ID and the information they provided in their essay.

They know what school the student attends. The policy of taking a minimum number per school, based on the racial distribution at different schools in FCPS, serves to discriminate by race.
It is a great way to reduce the number of Asians while claiming to be race blind.

The allocation of seats to different middle schools depends entirely on the number of students in their 8th grade class, not on the race of the students at those schools. Carson has one of the largest allocations because it's one of the largest schools.

You're factually incorrect.

I wasn't suggesting the allocation was done based on race. I am saying the policy of allocating by middle school, can be racial discrimination with certain demographics.
If every school had the same distribution by race, then this policy of doing seats by middle school would not be racial discrimination.
Say of the 480 seats at TJ, Asians took 350, and all 350 every year came from a single high school where Asians were 50% of the school, and in other schools Asians were just a handful of students. Adopting a per school quota would be an excellent way to reduce Asian numbers while pretending to be race blind.

Indeed if every high school had the same racial distribution, I think FCPS would have skipped the step of distributing seats by middle school.

Actually that's untrue. Allocation by school is even considered a best practice in gifted education.

That has to do with choosing who gets gifted services within the school. Don't use national percentiles for qualifying, and instead take the top kids at that school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
That really depends on how the holding is phrased. Are you counting on this Court to rule narrowly? I'd think think it's more likely we get a language barring the use of race in admissions that we get language restricting the holding to the university level.

FCPS is claiming they are not using race in admissions to TJ. If a county opened a brand new school with the current admissions policy, there would be no case.
The racial discrimination is a finding by the judge that FCPS made these changes with intent to discriminate against Asians.
LCPS was more blatant in putting in a maximum quota per school, and claiming they weren't using geography as a proxy for race.

This. The supporters of the admissions change want to pretend the factual record of the motivations behind the change doesn't exist and that the new policy can only be judged in the abstract. It is by no means clear, and in fact seems rather unlikely, that this will fly. There will be some language in at least one of the pending Supreme Court cases that those challenging the TJ changes will latch onto.

Didn't the later judge state they couldn't show any harm done since the selection was still roughly 70% Asian even after the changes?

Yes, the group in question is doing better than any other so hard to show harm from these changes.

Unless unintelligent and unwise fcps board members put it in wring they want to see fewer Asian students at TJ.

No, 1 board member sharing her view that the new policy was anti Asian does not mean that the goal of ANY of the BOD members was to result in fewer Asian kids at TJ.

https://www.fairfaxtimes.com/articles/fairfax_county/school-board-members-called-process-for-tj-admissions-changes-anti-asian-racist-embarrassing/article_7ba0320e-74a0-11ec-bf93-4bf5ff6732bd.html

"...school board member Abrar Omeish wrote a text to fellow board member Stella Pekarsky about the admissions changes: “I mean there has been an anti asian feel underlying some of this, hate to say it lol.” And she pressed send.
Pekarsky, now the board chair, responded: “…I always told people that talking about TJ is a stupid waste of tome [sic]. It’s about making a political point.” Speaking about Asians, Omeish answered: “Of course it is…They’re discriminated against in this process too.”"

True, and the fact that TJ remains overwhelming Asian suggests it never happened.

it would be 80% without any illegal discrimination against Asians.

Exactly, NBA is about 80% blacks and when diversity plan is implemented in favor of Asians, whites and Hispanics and NBA becomes 60% blacks, are you still going to argue there is no discrimination against black players because blacks are overwhelmingly over-represented at 60%? GTFOH.

The NBA is a.... private enterprise.... not a publicly funded educational opportunity....

True, but several posters here are being intentionally obtuse to fit a square peg in a round hole.

Ok then, we can eliminate the 'equity industrial complex' that employs millions in made up jobs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
That really depends on how the holding is phrased. Are you counting on this Court to rule narrowly? I'd think think it's more likely we get a language barring the use of race in admissions that we get language restricting the holding to the university level.

FCPS is claiming they are not using race in admissions to TJ. If a county opened a brand new school with the current admissions policy, there would be no case.
The racial discrimination is a finding by the judge that FCPS made these changes with intent to discriminate against Asians.
LCPS was more blatant in putting in a maximum quota per school, and claiming they weren't using geography as a proxy for race.

This. The supporters of the admissions change want to pretend the factual record of the motivations behind the change doesn't exist and that the new policy can only be judged in the abstract. It is by no means clear, and in fact seems rather unlikely, that this will fly. There will be some language in at least one of the pending Supreme Court cases that those challenging the TJ changes will latch onto.

Didn't the later judge state they couldn't show any harm done since the selection was still roughly 70% Asian even after the changes?

Yes, the group in question is doing better than any other so hard to show harm from these changes.

Unless unintelligent and unwise fcps board members put it in wring they want to see fewer Asian students at TJ.

No, 1 board member sharing her view that the new policy was anti Asian does not mean that the goal of ANY of the BOD members was to result in fewer Asian kids at TJ.

https://www.fairfaxtimes.com/articles/fairfax_county/school-board-members-called-process-for-tj-admissions-changes-anti-asian-racist-embarrassing/article_7ba0320e-74a0-11ec-bf93-4bf5ff6732bd.html

"...school board member Abrar Omeish wrote a text to fellow board member Stella Pekarsky about the admissions changes: “I mean there has been an anti asian feel underlying some of this, hate to say it lol.” And she pressed send.
Pekarsky, now the board chair, responded: “…I always told people that talking about TJ is a stupid waste of tome [sic]. It’s about making a political point.” Speaking about Asians, Omeish answered: “Of course it is…They’re discriminated against in this process too.”"

True, and the fact that TJ remains overwhelming Asian suggests it never happened.

it would be 80% without any illegal discrimination against Asians.

Exactly, NBA is about 80% blacks and when diversity plan is implemented in favor of Asians, whites and Hispanics and NBA becomes 60% blacks, are you still going to argue there is no discrimination against black players because blacks are overwhelmingly over-represented at 60%? GTFOH.

The NBA is a.... private enterprise.... not a publicly funded educational opportunity....

True, but several posters here are being intentionally obtuse to fit a square peg in a round hole.

Ok then, we can eliminate the 'equity industrial complex' that employs millions in made up jobs.

Is that some fictious agency that exists on Fox news?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
That really depends on how the holding is phrased. Are you counting on this Court to rule narrowly? I'd think think it's more likely we get a language barring the use of race in admissions that we get language restricting the holding to the university level.

FCPS is claiming they are not using race in admissions to TJ. If a county opened a brand new school with the current admissions policy, there would be no case.
The racial discrimination is a finding by the judge that FCPS made these changes with intent to discriminate against Asians.
LCPS was more blatant in putting in a maximum quota per school, and claiming they weren't using geography as a proxy for race.

This. The supporters of the admissions change want to pretend the factual record of the motivations behind the change doesn't exist and that the new policy can only be judged in the abstract. It is by no means clear, and in fact seems rather unlikely, that this will fly. There will be some language in at least one of the pending Supreme Court cases that those challenging the TJ changes will latch onto.

Didn't the later judge state they couldn't show any harm done since the selection was still roughly 70% Asian even after the changes?

Yes, the group in question is doing better than any other so hard to show harm from these changes.

Unless unintelligent and unwise fcps board members put it in wring they want to see fewer Asian students at TJ.

No, 1 board member sharing her view that the new policy was anti Asian does not mean that the goal of ANY of the BOD members was to result in fewer Asian kids at TJ.

https://www.fairfaxtimes.com/articles/fairfax_county/school-board-members-called-process-for-tj-admissions-changes-anti-asian-racist-embarrassing/article_7ba0320e-74a0-11ec-bf93-4bf5ff6732bd.html

"...school board member Abrar Omeish wrote a text to fellow board member Stella Pekarsky about the admissions changes: “I mean there has been an anti asian feel underlying some of this, hate to say it lol.” And she pressed send.
Pekarsky, now the board chair, responded: “…I always told people that talking about TJ is a stupid waste of tome [sic]. It’s about making a political point.” Speaking about Asians, Omeish answered: “Of course it is…They’re discriminated against in this process too.”"

True, and the fact that TJ remains overwhelming Asian suggests it never happened.

it would be 80% without any illegal discrimination against Asians.

It would be a lot less than 80% if FCPS had long ago abandoned the outdated practice of standardized testing as a mechanism for evaluating applicants.

And it would certainly be less if FCPS actually engaged in a process that sought to admit students of varying interests and backgrounds, thus creating the sort of strengthened academic community that is backed by decades of peer-reviewed research.

Yes, the old process outlived it's time and was easily manipulated by a few $$$ in outside enrichment. The net effect was subpar students were often selected and made the place toxic.

More sub-par students are admitted after the discriminatory admissions changes were implemented 2 years ago.

Both are true and continue to be true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
That really depends on how the holding is phrased. Are you counting on this Court to rule narrowly? I'd think think it's more likely we get a language barring the use of race in admissions that we get language restricting the holding to the university level.

FCPS is claiming they are not using race in admissions to TJ. If a county opened a brand new school with the current admissions policy, there would be no case.
The racial discrimination is a finding by the judge that FCPS made these changes with intent to discriminate against Asians.
LCPS was more blatant in putting in a maximum quota per school, and claiming they weren't using geography as a proxy for race.

This. The supporters of the admissions change want to pretend the factual record of the motivations behind the change doesn't exist and that the new policy can only be judged in the abstract. It is by no means clear, and in fact seems rather unlikely, that this will fly. There will be some language in at least one of the pending Supreme Court cases that those challenging the TJ changes will latch onto.

Didn't the later judge state they couldn't show any harm done since the selection was still roughly 70% Asian even after the changes?

Yes, the group in question is doing better than any other so hard to show harm from these changes.

Unless unintelligent and unwise fcps board members put it in wring they want to see fewer Asian students at TJ.

No, 1 board member sharing her view that the new policy was anti Asian does not mean that the goal of ANY of the BOD members was to result in fewer Asian kids at TJ.

https://www.fairfaxtimes.com/articles/fairfax_county/school-board-members-called-process-for-tj-admissions-changes-anti-asian-racist-embarrassing/article_7ba0320e-74a0-11ec-bf93-4bf5ff6732bd.html

"...school board member Abrar Omeish wrote a text to fellow board member Stella Pekarsky about the admissions changes: “I mean there has been an anti asian feel underlying some of this, hate to say it lol.” And she pressed send.
Pekarsky, now the board chair, responded: “…I always told people that talking about TJ is a stupid waste of tome [sic]. It’s about making a political point.” Speaking about Asians, Omeish answered: “Of course it is…They’re discriminated against in this process too.”"

True, and the fact that TJ remains overwhelming Asian suggests it never happened.

it would be 80% without any illegal discrimination against Asians.

It would be a lot less than 80% if FCPS had long ago abandoned the outdated practice of standardized testing as a mechanism for evaluating applicants.

And it would certainly be less if FCPS actually engaged in a process that sought to admit students of varying interests and backgrounds, thus creating the sort of strengthened academic community that is backed by decades of peer-reviewed research.

Yes, the old process outlived it's time and was easily manipulated by a few $$$ in outside enrichment. The net effect was subpar students were often selected and made the place toxic.

More sub-par students are admitted after the discriminatory admissions changes were implemented 2 years ago.

And TJ became more toxic since unprepared and sub-par students are more likely to fail out, struggle, have less time for 8th period activities and be frustrated etc.

My DC is there now and I was actually quite worried about a toxic atmosphere. I have not observed that at all so far (freshman year though). Kids seem to be helpful of one another from what I’ve seen so far.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The LCPS Academies model with kids going to their base school for History, English, PE, foreign Language/music, and then going to the Academy (or TJ in this case) for the other day to do Science, Math, Tech types of classes makes SO MUCH SENSE!

It allows kids to keep their base school connections, reduced commuting burdens, gives TWICE as many kids access to very top-level STEM classes/peers, and allows the specialty school to actually focus on the SPECIALTY (STEM) without being bogged down with kids who can't pass English or Spanish or whatever.

Let TJ focus on STEM and let twice as many kids have access.

TJ is designed to be a full-service high school. The only reason it has such a strong national reputation when compared with AOS/AET is BECAUSE it's a full-service high school.

You are chasing prestige and that prestige will go away immediately if TJ transitions to an academy model, and besides, it's not built with that in mind. You have tons of rooms in that building that are built for humanities classes. You have two gyms, an auditorium, and a black box theatre. And that building cost $100 million and was completed five years ago.

You're out of your mind if you think the academy model is either possible or a good idea.

Lots of high schools have two gyms and an auditorium, not sure what a black box theatre is. TJ doesn't have its high reputation because of its humanities classes or its black box theatre, though those are probably very good too. It has its reputation because of its math and science classes. A club that can put a satellite in space.
Physics classes that other university professors come to see how they are teaching.

Two things:

1) You completely missed the point - if the conversation is about turning TJ into an academy program, you can't do that in the current building without wasting an incredible amount of space and money. That building is designed to be a full-service high school and it's not like you can just take the humanities classrooms that are in there and convert them into STEM ready spaces in the blink of an eye. One imagines a building where the kids are running around in the lab spaces and entire wings of the building go totally unused for the entire year.

2) You are GROSSLY overestimating the level of teaching that goes on at TJ in comparison with other highly-ranked STEM academies or schools. What separates TJ from the rest of the schools in Northern Virginia is an exceptional STEM program, but what separates it from the other STEM academies that are out there is the ability to have a full-service high school experience at the same time as you're getting the world-class STEM education. Most of the other highly ranked high schools that are out there have maybe 400-600 students or even fewer. Stuy and Bronx Science are comparable, but few others are.

Re: #2 … we would not have accepted the invitation to attend TJ (or likely applied at all) if it was a part time model. It is the fact that TJ is the kid’s school community that makes it work and be positive.

[Anonymous]

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That really depends on how the holding is phrased. Are you counting on this Court to rule narrowly? I'd think think it's more likely we get a language barring the use of race in admissions that we get language restricting the holding to the university level.

FCPS is claiming they are not using race in admissions to TJ. If a county opened a brand new school with the current admissions policy, there would be no case.
The racial discrimination is a finding by the judge that FCPS made these changes with intent to discriminate against Asians.
LCPS was more blatant in putting in a maximum quota per school, and claiming they weren't using geography as a proxy for race.

Except that's illegal in the United States. Admission is race blind. They do not know an applicant's race just their student ID and the information they provided in their essay.

They know what school the student attends. The policy of taking a minimum number per school, based on the racial distribution at different schools in FCPS, serves to discriminate by race.
It is a great way to reduce the number of Asians while claiming to be race blind.

The allocation of seats to different middle schools depends entirely on the number of students in their 8th grade class, not on the race of the students at those schools. Carson has one of the largest allocations because it's one of the largest schools.

You're factually incorrect.

I wasn't suggesting the allocation was done based on race. I am saying the policy of allocating by middle school, can be racial discrimination with certain demographics.
If every school had the same distribution by race, then this policy of doing seats by middle school would not be racial discrimination.
Say of the 480 seats at TJ, Asians took 350, and all 350 every year came from a single high school where Asians were 50% of the school, and in other schools Asians were just a handful of students. Adopting a per school quota would be an excellent way to reduce Asian numbers while pretending to be race blind.

Indeed if every high school had the same racial distribution, I think FCPS would have skipped the step of distributing seats by middle school.

Actually that's untrue. Allocation by school is even considered a best practice in gifted education.

Sure, but it's also a best practice to have a holistic review of a much more comprehensive application which includes grades, test scores, recommendations, substantial essays, and more. Picking "the best" kids from a school based on a couple fluff essays isn't best practices anywhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
That really depends on how the holding is phrased. Are you counting on this Court to rule narrowly? I'd think think it's more likely we get a language barring the use of race in admissions that we get language restricting the holding to the university level.

FCPS is claiming they are not using race in admissions to TJ. If a county opened a brand new school with the current admissions policy, there would be no case.
The racial discrimination is a finding by the judge that FCPS made these changes with intent to discriminate against Asians.
LCPS was more blatant in putting in a maximum quota per school, and claiming they weren't using geography as a proxy for race.

This. The supporters of the admissions change want to pretend the factual record of the motivations behind the change doesn't exist and that the new policy can only be judged in the abstract. It is by no means clear, and in fact seems rather unlikely, that this will fly. There will be some language in at least one of the pending Supreme Court cases that those challenging the TJ changes will latch onto.

Didn't the later judge state they couldn't show any harm done since the selection was still roughly 70% Asian even after the changes?

Yes, the group in question is doing better than any other so hard to show harm from these changes.

Unless unintelligent and unwise fcps board members put it in wring they want to see fewer Asian students at TJ.

No, 1 board member sharing her view that the new policy was anti Asian does not mean that the goal of ANY of the BOD members was to result in fewer Asian kids at TJ.

https://www.fairfaxtimes.com/articles/fairfax_county/school-board-members-called-process-for-tj-admissions-changes-anti-asian-racist-embarrassing/article_7ba0320e-74a0-11ec-bf93-4bf5ff6732bd.html

"...school board member Abrar Omeish wrote a text to fellow board member Stella Pekarsky about the admissions changes: “I mean there has been an anti asian feel underlying some of this, hate to say it lol.” And she pressed send.
Pekarsky, now the board chair, responded: “…I always told people that talking about TJ is a stupid waste of tome [sic]. It’s about making a political point.” Speaking about Asians, Omeish answered: “Of course it is…They’re discriminated against in this process too.”"

True, and the fact that TJ remains overwhelming Asian suggests it never happened.

it would be 80% without any illegal discrimination against Asians.

It would be a lot less than 80% if FCPS had long ago abandoned the outdated practice of standardized testing as a mechanism for evaluating applicants.

And it would certainly be less if FCPS actually engaged in a process that sought to admit students of varying interests and backgrounds, thus creating the sort of strengthened academic community that is backed by decades of peer-reviewed research.

Yes, the old process outlived it's time and was easily manipulated by a few $$$ in outside enrichment. The net effect was subpar students were often selected and made the place toxic.

More sub-par students are admitted after the discriminatory admissions changes were implemented 2 years ago.

And TJ became more toxic since unprepared and sub-par students are more likely to fail out, struggle, have less time for 8th period activities and be frustrated etc.

My DC is there now and I was actually quite worried about a toxic atmosphere. I have not observed that at all so far (freshman year though). Kids seem to be helpful of one another from what I’ve seen so far.

It's the opposite of what the earlier poster claimed. I had one child graduate from there a few years ago and a younger one there now. It's much better since the change. Fewer hypercompetitive preppers now and more kids with natural ability.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
That really depends on how the holding is phrased. Are you counting on this Court to rule narrowly? I'd think think it's more likely we get a language barring the use of race in admissions that we get language restricting the holding to the university level.

FCPS is claiming they are not using race in admissions to TJ. If a county opened a brand new school with the current admissions policy, there would be no case.
The racial discrimination is a finding by the judge that FCPS made these changes with intent to discriminate against Asians.
LCPS was more blatant in putting in a maximum quota per school, and claiming they weren't using geography as a proxy for race.

Except that's illegal in the United States. Admission is race blind. They do not know an applicant's race just their student ID and the information they provided in their essay.

They know what school the student attends. The policy of taking a minimum number per school, based on the racial distribution at different schools in FCPS, serves to discriminate by race.
It is a great way to reduce the number of Asians while claiming to be race blind.

The allocation of seats to different middle schools depends entirely on the number of students in their 8th grade class, not on the race of the students at those schools. Carson has one of the largest allocations because it's one of the largest schools.

You're factually incorrect.

I wasn't suggesting the allocation was done based on race. I am saying the policy of allocating by middle school, can be racial discrimination with certain demographics.
If every school had the same distribution by race, then this policy of doing seats by middle school would not be racial discrimination.
Say of the 480 seats at TJ, Asians took 350, and all 350 every year came from a single high school where Asians were 50% of the school, and in other schools Asians were just a handful of students. Adopting a per school quota would be an excellent way to reduce Asian numbers while pretending to be race blind.

Indeed if every high school had the same racial distribution, I think FCPS would have skipped the step of distributing seats by middle school.

Actually that's untrue. Allocation by school is even considered a best practice in gifted education.

Sure, but it's also a best practice to have a holistic review of a much more comprehensive application which includes grades, test scores, recommendations, substantial essays, and more. Picking "the best" kids from a school based on a couple fluff essays isn't best practices anywhere.

Strange, I read the essays were just part of a holistic review that includes grades and test scores. The only difference is teacher recs which have been shown to be racially biased.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
That really depends on how the holding is phrased. Are you counting on this Court to rule narrowly? I'd think think it's more likely we get a language barring the use of race in admissions that we get language restricting the holding to the university level.

FCPS is claiming they are not using race in admissions to TJ. If a county opened a brand new school with the current admissions policy, there would be no case.
The racial discrimination is a finding by the judge that FCPS made these changes with intent to discriminate against Asians.
LCPS was more blatant in putting in a maximum quota per school, and claiming they weren't using geography as a proxy for race.

Except that's illegal in the United States. Admission is race blind. They do not know an applicant's race just their student ID and the information they provided in their essay.

They know what school the student attends. The policy of taking a minimum number per school, based on the racial distribution at different schools in FCPS, serves to discriminate by race.
It is a great way to reduce the number of Asians while claiming to be race blind.

The allocation of seats to different middle schools depends entirely on the number of students in their 8th grade class, not on the race of the students at those schools. Carson has one of the largest allocations because it's one of the largest schools.

You're factually incorrect.

I wasn't suggesting the allocation was done based on race. I am saying the policy of allocating by middle school, can be racial discrimination with certain demographics.
If every school had the same distribution by race, then this policy of doing seats by middle school would not be racial discrimination.
Say of the 480 seats at TJ, Asians took 350, and all 350 every year came from a single high school where Asians were 50% of the school, and in other schools Asians were just a handful of students. Adopting a per school quota would be an excellent way to reduce Asian numbers while pretending to be race blind.

Indeed if every high school had the same racial distribution, I think FCPS would have skipped the step of distributing seats by middle school.

Actually that's untrue. Allocation by school is even considered a best practice in gifted education.

Sure, but it's also a best practice to have a holistic review of a much more comprehensive application which includes grades, test scores, recommendations, substantial essays, and more. Picking "the best" kids from a school based on a couple fluff essays isn't best practices anywhere.

Anyone who falls back on "it's a best practice" to justify their position is just admitting it's one big circle jerk for them.