I'm so tired of mom cliques

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes they are everywhere. Just do your best to focus on other areas as best you can, and be friendly to all.

(And yes, it sucks. I'm frequently the one on the outside, despite being involved in lots of activities with all of them.)

OP here - this is me. I know them, our kids are friends, I just don't live in the cool neighborhood, so I am not one of them, nor will I ever be.

15:29 here - I actually live in the "cool" neighborhood and am still excluded. I saw on FB that the neighborhood moms hosted a baby shower for another neighborhood mom. Yep, not invited and didn't know about it - despite knowing most everyone. Yes, it sucks.

Honest question -- why do you care? Why does this suck? If anything, it tells you who your friends are -- and it's none of these women. Go enjoy life with your real friends, and stop worrying about these neighborhood moms.

PP can still feel hurt by the exclusion.

Then get therapy. That isn't anyone's problem. You are an adult.

I think the person who needs therapy is the one who thinks that we're not allowed to have feelings.

It's perfectly valid for OP and baby shower PP to feel sad about being left out of something that looks fun. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. If your kid hears about a birthday party that they weren't invited to you, do you say something like "I'm sorry, it sounds like that hurts your feelings" to empathize with them, or do you say "suck it up, buttercup, that's life. go see a therapist"?

Ok so have feelings. But if this is bothering you enough that you need to post about about and go on and on then that is over the top. Clearly you can't move past it and without help and it is on your mind frequently and has been for years. Therapy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not in the mom clique either, OP, but I’ve never been in the “cool group” so I’m used to it.

I am the smart mom with the smartest kid in class (yes, we’re both nerds) and we’re both thin and wear glasses! It’s just who we are.

Be comfortable with yourself, OP. Accept exclusion but never exclude. It would be the same wherever you move.

I think this is it. I was never part of the cool or popular clique so no big deal that I’m not in the cool mom clique either.

I was at some point very much a pta mom. Not anymore.

I have always had a few close friends and still do. My friends are moms but they are not necessarily moms of my kids’ friends.

I've been in cool groups and not cool groups and sometimes no groups, and I just don't care. And that is the secret to happiness. Once a mom friend was complaining to me about mom cliques and I was like, what cliques? And she said to me, exasperated, "Oh Larla! You're just not paying attention!" And I was like, well, exactly.

I'm not on FB and use Instagram only for a hobby of mine (don't follow any school people), and I'm sure this is a help. But also, when my oldest kid was in elementary school, I was the treasurer of the PTA for a few years. And I got to see up close how terrible some of these people are, like the ones who want to donate lots of money to the school... but only if the money goes to their own child's classroom. And the complaints about other people's children and the jockeying for the smallest of advantages. I think that experience killed any desire I might have had for close friendships through my children. It's just not a good basis for a relationship.

All of you complaining ...^this. You just have to get over it and live your life and stop the worrying about who is you friend, who isn't, what you were or weren't invited to. It doesn't matter. It really doesn't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes they are everywhere. Just do your best to focus on other areas as best you can, and be friendly to all.

(And yes, it sucks. I'm frequently the one on the outside, despite being involved in lots of activities with all of them.)

OP here - this is me. I know them, our kids are friends, I just don't live in the cool neighborhood, so I am not one of them, nor will I ever be.

15:29 here - I actually live in the "cool" neighborhood and am still excluded. I saw on FB that the neighborhood moms hosted a baby shower for another neighborhood mom. Yep, not invited and didn't know about it - despite knowing most everyone. Yes, it sucks.

Honest question -- why do you care? Why does this suck? If anything, it tells you who your friends are -- and it's none of these women. Go enjoy life with your real friends, and stop worrying about these neighborhood moms.

PP can still feel hurt by the exclusion.

Then get therapy. That isn't anyone's problem. You are an adult.

I think the person who needs therapy is the one who thinks that we're not allowed to have feelings.

It's perfectly valid for OP and baby shower PP to feel sad about being left out of something that looks fun. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. If your kid hears about a birthday party that they weren't invited to you, do you say something like "I'm sorry, it sounds like that hurts your feelings" to empathize with them, or do you say "suck it up, buttercup, that's life. go see a therapist"?

Ok so have feelings. But if this is bothering you enough that you need to post about about and go on and on then that is over the top. Clearly you can't move past it and without help and it is on your mind frequently and has been for years. Therapy.

You're replying to me and I only posted once (bolded) in this whole thread, so I'm not going on and on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Seriously considering moving to a different school because of the MOMS. Ugh.

The moms cliques pretty much stop at Elementary school, unless the moms are really good friends.

By middle school kids find new groups and by High School you try to keep up with who is who in their friends group.

Moms are out the picture. Hang in there!

[Anonymous]

I think the people who are the loudest complainers about mom cliques just may be the most unabashed social climbers.

I have loads of mom friends. I have never encountered all this drama. Some people get along better and hang out more. Some are busier with other things and hang out less. But there is not one central queen bee orchestrating it all and no "clique" that you have to join. It's mostly proximity.

Idk, maybe I just have normal friends. But most of us are too busy to spend time crying about being left out of some potluck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry but I just don’t see this. They are groups of friends. Not cliques. These are adult women with kids, spouses, jobs, busy lives. They found common ground and connected. No one has the mental energy for “inclusion” of all moms in the entire school, neighborhood, etc. at all cost. Just be friends with who you want And get along with and stop thinking about who you aren’t friends with or what you aren’t invited to. It isn’t personal. No one can be friends with everyone and included in everything

But others may view those groups of friends as cliques.

If mom “cliques” bother you, then you have issues and insecurities. I don’t think at all about what moms are friends with each other or follow anyone on social media or what they post. That is a you problem, not a them problem. Make you own friends and do your own thing- or don’t. But it doesn’t make anyone mean or wrong bc they are friends with each other and post whatever pictures or hashtags you hate on social media. Stay off social media if this makes you feel insecure.

It used to be considered good manners to not talk about parties/events in front of people not invited. That's what happens on social media. It's rude. But manners have gone out the window. Other people notice the bad manners.

Well expecting people to not post anything social on social media; unless their entire friends list that may happen to view such post were invited, is a big reach. It is called social media for a reason. If other people socializing without you bothers you, you really need to change how/if you use social media.

It was not invented for 40 year old women who should know better than to publicize their social gatherings. It truly is a violation of social norms to do that.

Look, I'm not even on social media so I'm not "that mom". But if it bothers you to see others post things, get off. This is really NBD if people post party pictures and what not. Someone secure and mentally heathy doesn't care. Why are you worrying and caring what others are posting and what you were or weren't invited to? That is the problem. Others are not responsible for your mental well being and making sure you feel included in everything; lest they post a picture and someone not in gets hurt feelings. They are living their own life and not worrying about you. Try it.

DP here.

A secure and mentally healthy person would not need to post photos of private social events to social media. It's attention-seeking behavior, In specific cases, it is likely done with the express goal of making people feel excluded, because people with low-esteem often get a boost from feeling better than others.

I'd also argue that repeatedly arguing with strangers on the internet about whether or not it is okay for them to feel sad or hurt by social media posts is not a sign of a secure and mentally healthy person. To quote you, why do you care? Why does it matter to you if some people complain on an anonymous online board about this? How does it impact you? Why don't you take your own advice and simply log off?

The truth is that the world is full of people who are insecure and struggling with mental health. I am one of them some days. You seem to believe that if people just suck it up, suddenly there will be no more social exclusion, no more hurt feelings, no more interpersonal drama. This is what you have called an "unreasonable expectation." Human beings are programmed to seek out social connection, and thus also programmed to experience distress when they feel socially alienated. You can't just eliminate these needs or responses -- they in some ways define us as people.

I personally think that your anger, frustration, and lack of empathy on this subject indicates that something about this is triggering for you. I don't know you so I don't know what it is. Perhaps, again, you should take your own advice and speak to a therapist about it. You could start by saying, "I feel very agitated when people talk about feeling left or excluded." That's an interesting emotional response and a therapist could help you figure out where it is coming from so that you no longer have such strong reactions to comments by anonymous people in an online forum.

I think that your emotional response to this conversation with strangers is more of a problem than the responses PP's are having to feeling excluded by people they actually know and interact with in real life. Their responses make more sense to me -- they care because these people are their friends, neighbors, and members of their immediate community. But your response on this board is a mystery. You don't know any of these people, so why do you care if they feel sad? It's interesting. Maybe you should look inward and see if you can figure it out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not in the mom clique either, OP, but I’ve never been in the “cool group” so I’m used to it.

I am the smart mom with the smartest kid in class (yes, we’re both nerds) and we’re both thin and wear glasses! It’s just who we are.

Be comfortable with yourself, OP. Accept exclusion but never exclude. It would be the same wherever you move.

I think this is it. I was never part of the cool or popular clique so no big deal that I’m not in the cool mom clique either.

I was at some point very much a pta mom. Not anymore.

I have always had a few close friends and still do. My friends are moms but they are not necessarily moms of my kids’ friends.

I've been in cool groups and not cool groups and sometimes no groups, and I just don't care. And that is the secret to happiness. Once a mom friend was complaining to me about mom cliques and I was like, what cliques? And she said to me, exasperated, "Oh Larla! You're just not paying attention!" And I was like, well, exactly.

I'm not on FB and use Instagram only for a hobby of mine (don't follow any school people), and I'm sure this is a help. But also, when my oldest kid was in elementary school, I was the treasurer of the PTA for a few years. And I got to see up close how terrible some of these people are, like the ones who want to donate lots of money to the school... but only if the money goes to their own child's classroom. And the complaints about other people's children and the jockeying for the smallest of advantages. I think that experience killed any desire I might have had for close friendships through my children. It's just not a good basis for a relationship.

All of you complaining ...^this. You just have to get over it and live your life and stop the worrying about who is you friend, who isn't, what you were or weren't invited to. It doesn't matter. It really doesn't.

It doesn't matter who is your friend and who isn't? I think that's actually a fundamental piece of information about your relationship with another person and it absolutely matters. What a weird take. Assuming you have friends, if one of them decided tomorrow that they didn't like you anymore, would you seriously not even care? If so, you're a robot. That's like how a psychopath thinks.

Most people care about stuff like whether or not they have friends, or what the people in their immediate community think of them. Everyone also needs to develop resiliency that helps them deal with social rejection, of course -- it's essential. But to not care at all? That's actually disturbing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the people who are the loudest complainers about mom cliques just may be the most unabashed social climbers.

I have loads of mom friends. I have never encountered all this drama. Some people get along better and hang out more. Some are busier with other things and hang out less. But there is not one central queen bee orchestrating it all and no "clique" that you have to join. It's mostly proximity.

Idk, maybe I just have normal friends. But most of us are too busy to spend time crying about being left out of some potluck.

Hmm, it's almost like maybe your personal experience is not universal and other people have had other experiences. You sound emotionally stunted. Glad you're busy, though? I don't like to over schedule myself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not in the mom clique either, OP, but I’ve never been in the “cool group” so I’m used to it.

I am the smart mom with the smartest kid in class (yes, we’re both nerds) and we’re both thin and wear glasses! It’s just who we are.

Be comfortable with yourself, OP. Accept exclusion but never exclude. It would be the same wherever you move.

I think this is it. I was never part of the cool or popular clique so no big deal that I’m not in the cool mom clique either.

I was at some point very much a pta mom. Not anymore.

I have always had a few close friends and still do. My friends are moms but they are not necessarily moms of my kids’ friends.

I've been in cool groups and not cool groups and sometimes no groups, and I just don't care. And that is the secret to happiness. Once a mom friend was complaining to me about mom cliques and I was like, what cliques? And she said to me, exasperated, "Oh Larla! You're just not paying attention!" And I was like, well, exactly.

I'm not on FB and use Instagram only for a hobby of mine (don't follow any school people), and I'm sure this is a help. But also, when my oldest kid was in elementary school, I was the treasurer of the PTA for a few years. And I got to see up close how terrible some of these people are, like the ones who want to donate lots of money to the school... but only if the money goes to their own child's classroom. And the complaints about other people's children and the jockeying for the smallest of advantages. I think that experience killed any desire I might have had for close friendships through my children. It's just not a good basis for a relationship.

All of you complaining ...^this. You just have to get over it and live your life and stop the worrying about who is you friend, who isn't, what you were or weren't invited to. It doesn't matter. It really doesn't.

It doesn't matter who is your friend and who isn't? I think that's actually a fundamental piece of information about your relationship with another person and it absolutely matters. What a weird take. Assuming you have friends, if one of them decided tomorrow that they didn't like you anymore, would you seriously not even care? If so, you're a robot. That's like how a psychopath thinks.

Most people care about stuff like whether or not they have friends, or what the people in their immediate community think of them. Everyone also needs to develop resiliency that helps them deal with social rejection, of course -- it's essential. But to not care at all? That's actually disturbing.

But that isn't what this topic is...

If one of my friends had a get together with some other people or friends, whether they were mutual or not, I wouldn't at all take offense or feel excluded. Honestly, it is hard enough to make plans with other adults in this stage of our lives/motherhood. If a few can find some time to get together, good for them. They more people invited, the more complicated and the less likely things will work out. When I'm feeling social, I reach out to who I want to get together with. I take no offense at all when others make plans without me. And neither should you. It isn't personal. If it is, well they aren't your friend and move on

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not in the mom clique either, OP, but I’ve never been in the “cool group” so I’m used to it.

I am the smart mom with the smartest kid in class (yes, we’re both nerds) and we’re both thin and wear glasses! It’s just who we are.

Be comfortable with yourself, OP. Accept exclusion but never exclude. It would be the same wherever you move.

I think this is it. I was never part of the cool or popular clique so no big deal that I’m not in the cool mom clique either.

I was at some point very much a pta mom. Not anymore.

I have always had a few close friends and still do. My friends are moms but they are not necessarily moms of my kids’ friends.

I've been in cool groups and not cool groups and sometimes no groups, and I just don't care. And that is the secret to happiness. Once a mom friend was complaining to me about mom cliques and I was like, what cliques? And she said to me, exasperated, "Oh Larla! You're just not paying attention!" And I was like, well, exactly.

I'm not on FB and use Instagram only for a hobby of mine (don't follow any school people), and I'm sure this is a help. But also, when my oldest kid was in elementary school, I was the treasurer of the PTA for a few years. And I got to see up close how terrible some of these people are, like the ones who want to donate lots of money to the school... but only if the money goes to their own child's classroom. And the complaints about other people's children and the jockeying for the smallest of advantages. I think that experience killed any desire I might have had for close friendships through my children. It's just not a good basis for a relationship.

All of you complaining ...^this. You just have to get over it and live your life and stop the worrying about who is you friend, who isn't, what you were or weren't invited to. It doesn't matter. It really doesn't.

It doesn't matter who is your friend and who isn't? I think that's actually a fundamental piece of information about your relationship with another person and it absolutely matters. What a weird take. Assuming you have friends, if one of them decided tomorrow that they didn't like you anymore, would you seriously not even care? If so, you're a robot. That's like how a psychopath thinks.

Most people care about stuff like whether or not they have friends, or what the people in their immediate community think of them. Everyone also needs to develop resiliency that helps them deal with social rejection, of course -- it's essential. But to not care at all? That's actually disturbing.

Assuming because others/friends do things without you or don't invite you to something then "they don't like you" if flawed and pathological thinking..and off topic

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not in the mom clique either, OP, but I’ve never been in the “cool group” so I’m used to it.

I am the smart mom with the smartest kid in class (yes, we’re both nerds) and we’re both thin and wear glasses! It’s just who we are.

Be comfortable with yourself, OP. Accept exclusion but never exclude. It would be the same wherever you move.

I think this is it. I was never part of the cool or popular clique so no big deal that I’m not in the cool mom clique either.

I was at some point very much a pta mom. Not anymore.

I have always had a few close friends and still do. My friends are moms but they are not necessarily moms of my kids’ friends.

I've been in cool groups and not cool groups and sometimes no groups, and I just don't care. And that is the secret to happiness. Once a mom friend was complaining to me about mom cliques and I was like, what cliques? And she said to me, exasperated, "Oh Larla! You're just not paying attention!" And I was like, well, exactly.

I'm not on FB and use Instagram only for a hobby of mine (don't follow any school people), and I'm sure this is a help. But also, when my oldest kid was in elementary school, I was the treasurer of the PTA for a few years. And I got to see up close how terrible some of these people are, like the ones who want to donate lots of money to the school... but only if the money goes to their own child's classroom. And the complaints about other people's children and the jockeying for the smallest of advantages. I think that experience killed any desire I might have had for close friendships through my children. It's just not a good basis for a relationship.

All of you complaining ...^this. You just have to get over it and live your life and stop the worrying about who is you friend, who isn't, what you were or weren't invited to. It doesn't matter. It really doesn't.

It doesn't matter who is your friend and who isn't? I think that's actually a fundamental piece of information about your relationship with another person and it absolutely matters. What a weird take. Assuming you have friends, if one of them decided tomorrow that they didn't like you anymore, would you seriously not even care? If so, you're a robot. That's like how a psychopath thinks.

Most people care about stuff like whether or not they have friends, or what the people in their immediate community think of them. Everyone also needs to develop resiliency that helps them deal with social rejection, of course -- it's essential. But to not care at all? That's actually disturbing.

The point is not that people shouldn't make friends or seek human connection! The point is that "our kids go to the same school" is a very flimsy basis for friendship. It's not a basis on which lasting relationships are built, and it's a recipe for disappointment to think otherwise. IMO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry but I just don’t see this. They are groups of friends. Not cliques. These are adult women with kids, spouses, jobs, busy lives. They found common ground and connected. No one has the mental energy for “inclusion” of all moms in the entire school, neighborhood, etc. at all cost. Just be friends with who you want And get along with and stop thinking about who you aren’t friends with or what you aren’t invited to. It isn’t personal. No one can be friends with everyone and included in everything

But others may view those groups of friends as cliques.

If mom “cliques” bother you, then you have issues and insecurities. I don’t think at all about what moms are friends with each other or follow anyone on social media or what they post. That is a you problem, not a them problem. Make you own friends and do your own thing- or don’t. But it doesn’t make anyone mean or wrong bc they are friends with each other and post whatever pictures or hashtags you hate on social media. Stay off social media if this makes you feel insecure.

It used to be considered good manners to not talk about parties/events in front of people not invited. That's what happens on social media. It's rude. But manners have gone out the window. Other people notice the bad manners.

Well expecting people to not post anything social on social media; unless their entire friends list that may happen to view such post were invited, is a big reach. It is called social media for a reason. If other people socializing without you bothers you, you really need to change how/if you use social media.

It was not invented for 40 year old women who should know better than to publicize their social gatherings. It truly is a violation of social norms to do that.

Look, I'm not even on social media so I'm not "that mom". But if it bothers you to see others post things, get off. This is really NBD if people post party pictures and what not. Someone secure and mentally heathy doesn't care. Why are you worrying and caring what others are posting and what you were or weren't invited to? That is the problem. Others are not responsible for your mental well being and making sure you feel included in everything; lest they post a picture and someone not in gets hurt feelings. They are living their own life and not worrying about you. Try it.

DP here.

A secure and mentally healthy person would not need to post photos of private social events to social media. It's attention-seeking behavior, In specific cases, it is likely done with the express goal of making people feel excluded, because people with low-esteem often get a boost from feeling better than others.

I'd also argue that repeatedly arguing with strangers on the internet about whether or not it is okay for them to feel sad or hurt by social media posts is not a sign of a secure and mentally healthy person. To quote you, why do you care? Why does it matter to you if some people complain on an anonymous online board about this? How does it impact you? Why don't you take your own advice and simply log off?

The truth is that the world is full of people who are insecure and struggling with mental health. I am one of them some days. You seem to believe that if people just suck it up, suddenly there will be no more social exclusion, no more hurt feelings, no more interpersonal drama. This is what you have called an "unreasonable expectation." Human beings are programmed to seek out social connection, and thus also programmed to experience distress when they feel socially alienated. You can't just eliminate these needs or responses -- they in some ways define us as people.

I personally think that your anger, frustration, and lack of empathy on this subject indicates that something about this is triggering for you. I don't know you so I don't know what it is. Perhaps, again, you should take your own advice and speak to a therapist about it. You could start by saying, "I feel very agitated when people talk about feeling left or excluded." That's an interesting emotional response and a therapist could help you figure out where it is coming from so that you no longer have such strong reactions to comments by anonymous people in an online forum.

I think that your emotional response to this conversation with strangers is more of a problem than the responses PP's are having to feeling excluded by people they actually know and interact with in real life. Their responses make more sense to me -- they care because these people are their friends, neighbors, and members of their immediate community. But your response on this board is a mystery. You don't know any of these people, so why do you care if they feel sad? It's interesting. Maybe you should look inward and see if you can figure it out.

Move on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not the popular mom but I have a popular kid. We don’t live in the cool neighborhood but we live in the rich neighborhood. I host a lot of play dates. My kids have nice birthday parties.

I’m part of all the kid activities but I am not friends with any moms. We are friendly though.

yay, cool-without-trying-mom has arrived!

I think she's saying she is not cool?! I am in the same situation, very popular kid with a non-stop social life. Moms and I not friends. I don't live in the right neighborhood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid doesn’t join anything. So no sports cliques or Facebook groups with all the class info.

So I wave and say hi to school Moms.

I am meeting people through a new sport I started for me. It is so great to meet people outside of work and outside of my child’s school who like to play my sport!

Is it pickleball?

[Anonymous]

For me its the feeling like I have to put on an act.. there is no authenticity in my relationship with these moms. Usually they all talk at the same speed, have the same thoughts, and there is no room for me to feel like I can be myself. I know I have my own insecurities..and faults..but its the suffocating feeling I have to “group think,” and get with the program…which is probably why I do much better at one on one conversations…more opportunities for authentic connection.