How would you rank these colleges?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This website has lists of the undergraduate schools attended for people in 12 fields. Look at them and then tell us you think HR cares about the school attended more than the individual's qualifications.....

https://lesshighschoolstress.com/law/

While you're at it, on the same site a study by the Chronicle of Higher Ed is quoted that shows employers surveyed about what factors matter when hiring new graduates placed college prestige dead last.

https://lesshighschoolstress.com/page/5/

Law firms particularly (other than, maybe, small ones where going to the same college as the partners could help) and other legal employers could care less where you got your undergrad degree. But, I promise you they care about the name of your JD. Many firms won't even hire outside the top tier (or only in very special circumstances). So the first set is 100% useless. Show me the same data about Skadden but this time with the law school rather than undergrad.

I think the point of showing the Skadden list was exactly what you're saying: law firms don't care where you get your undergrad degree, so what's the point in ranking undergraduate programs as OP requested and so many are happy to oblige?

Because, for many people, college is their terminal degree.

You’re missing the point. The stupid author of that absurd blog is trying to point out “relax! Look at all these colleges which produce Skadden hirees!” But we lawyers are saying that’s an irrelevant point. What matters to top
Law firms that s the law school you went to, whether or not you are on law review, summer associate positions (based upon the former) and judicial clerkships. They don’t care about undergrad so the citation is worthless. Those of us who went to some of those SLACs (self included) were out indergrad’s valedictorians with high lsats so got into T3 law schools.

[Anonymous]

I guess I disagree with the sentiment that top law firms care only about undergrad. I spent my career at Big Law and also went to a Top 3 law school. But I see a difference in the type of lawyer a person is depending on the type of undergrad institution. I think undergrad shapes a person more than law school does, and that shows up in how a person presents. I think someone who went to an elite undergrad is shaped at a critical age into a better rounded, more sophisticated person than a person who went to a huge state school near home and then went to a top law school. Law school is not a place to get educated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I guess I disagree with the sentiment that top law firms care only about undergrad. I spent my career at Big Law and also went to a Top 3 law school. But I see a difference in the type of lawyer a person is depending on the type of undergrad institution. I think undergrad shapes a person more than law school does, and that shows up in how a person presents. I think someone who went to an elite undergrad is shaped at a critical age into a better rounded, more sophisticated person than a person who went to a huge state school near home and then went to a top law school. Law school is not a place to get educated.

Sorry, that too late firms “don’t” care about undergrad!

[Anonymous]

You’re forgetting that none of this matters with a strong alumni network. As a Colgate grad, I’ve personally benefited from it and the loyalty runs deep. I’d send my kid in a heartbeat over “better” schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hire in the CS sphere. Berkeley and UMD (CP) would get second looks on the basis of the college name, as long as their academics are decent. That's pretty much it. Everyone needs to be able to do well on their 'How would you solve this problem?' type of question, to get hired.

In this field, and especially for newbies, it's all about what you can do, and how well you perform under pressure.

Thank you for this perspective. I am always surprised to see UVA ranked way higher than UMD, while UMD ranks quite high in CS. I guess UMD only ranks high in CS, which is fine as colleges are selected based on major.

UMD is ranked high in CS, Engineering, Physics, Math and Business. I am not very knowledgeable about other majors but this is what I found on https://www.usnews.com/education/best-global-universities/university-of-maryland-college-park-163286


#90 in Agricultural Sciences

#54 in Arts and Humanities (tie)

#161 in Biology and Biochemistry

#178 in Biotechnology and Applied Microbiology (tie)

#126 in Chemical Engineering (tie)

#191 in Chemistry (tie)

#484 in Clinical Medicine

#29 in Computer Science

#40 in Condensed Matter Physics

#46 in Economics and Business (tie)

#95 in Electrical and Electronic Engineering (tie)

#58 in Energy and Fuels

#88 in Engineering

#39 in Environment/Ecology

#113 in Food Science and Technology (tie)

#8 in Geosciences

#80 in Materials Science

#90 in Mathematics

#93 in Mechanical Engineering

#178 in Microbiology

#327 in Molecular Biology and Genetics

#74 in Nanoscience and Nanotechnology (tie)

#305 in Neuroscience and Behavior (tie)

#72 in Optics

#60 in Physical Chemistry (tie)

#15 in Physics

#56 in Plant and Animal Science

#78 in Psychiatry/Psychology

#214 in Public, Environmental and Occupational Health (tie)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hire in the CS sphere. Berkeley and UMD (CP) would get second looks on the basis of the college name, as long as their academics are decent. That's pretty much it. Everyone needs to be able to do well on their 'How would you solve this problem?' type of question, to get hired.

In this field, and especially for newbies, it's all about what you can do, and how well you perform under pressure.

Thank you for this perspective. I am always surprised to see UVA ranked way higher than UMD, while UMD ranks quite high in CS. I guess UMD only ranks high in CS, which is fine as colleges are selected based on major.

UMD is ranked high in CS, Engineering, Physics, Math and Business. I am not very knowledgeable about other majors but this is what I found on https://www.usnews.com/education/best-global-universities/university-of-maryland-college-park-163286


#90 in Agricultural Sciences

#54 in Arts and Humanities (tie)

#161 in Biology and Biochemistry

#178 in Biotechnology and Applied Microbiology (tie)

#126 in Chemical Engineering (tie)

#191 in Chemistry (tie)

#484 in Clinical Medicine

#29 in Computer Science

#40 in Condensed Matter Physics

#46 in Economics and Business (tie)

#95 in Electrical and Electronic Engineering (tie)

#58 in Energy and Fuels

#88 in Engineering

#39 in Environment/Ecology

#113 in Food Science and Technology (tie)

#8 in Geosciences

#80 in Materials Science

#90 in Mathematics

#93 in Mechanical Engineering

#178 in Microbiology

#327 in Molecular Biology and Genetics

#74 in Nanoscience and Nanotechnology (tie)

#305 in Neuroscience and Behavior (tie)

#72 in Optics

#60 in Physical Chemistry (tie)

#15 in Physics

#56 in Plant and Animal Science

#78 in Psychiatry/Psychology

#214 in Public, Environmental and Occupational Health (tie)

UMD is ranked #60 overall - globally
UVA is ranked #110 overall - globally

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-global-universities/university-of-virginia-234076

#127 in Arts and Humanities (tie)

#122 in Biology and Biochemistry

#114 in Cardiac and Cardiovascular Systems (tie)

#135 in Cell Biology

#256 in Chemistry (tie)

#96 in Clinical Medicine

#241 in Computer Science (tie)

#108 in Economics and Business

#309 in Electrical and Electronic Engineering

#96 in Endocrinology and Metabolism

#402 in Engineering (tie)

#372 in Environment/Ecology (tie)

#59 in Immunology

#65 in Infectious Diseases

#300 in Materials Science (tie)

#187 in Molecular Biology and Genetics (tie)

#106 in Neuroscience and Behavior

#150 in Oncology (tie)

#339 in Physical Chemistry (tie)

#176 in Physics (tie)

#64 in Psychiatry/Psychology

#58 in Public, Environmental and Occupational Health (tie)

#90 in Radiology, Nuclear Medicine and Medical Imaging

#140 in Social Sciences and Public Health (tie)

#134 in Space Science

#37 in Surgery (tie)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm curious to see how people (especially you HR folks and recruiters) would personally rank these schools if you had a recent graduate apply for an entry level job.

Colby College, Notre Dame, UC Berkeley, Boston College, Colgate, Fordham, Boston University, UVA, Villanova, Tulane, and UMD.

Easy

UC Berkeley
Notre Dame
UVA
Boston College
Colgate
Fordham
UMD
Colby
Boston University
Tulane

[Anonymous]

UVA #110! Wow!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This website has lists of the undergraduate schools attended for people in 12 fields. Look at them and then tell us you think HR cares about the school attended more than the individual's qualifications.....

https://lesshighschoolstress.com/law/

While you're at it, on the same site a study by the Chronicle of Higher Ed is quoted that shows employers surveyed about what factors matter when hiring new graduates placed college prestige dead last.

https://lesshighschoolstress.com/page/5/

Law firms particularly (other than, maybe, small ones where going to the same college as the partners could help) and other legal employers could care less where you got your undergrad degree. But, I promise you they care about the name of your JD. Many firms won't even hire outside the top tier (or only in very special circumstances). So the first set is 100% useless. Show me the same data about Skadden but this time with the law school rather than undergrad.

I think the point of showing the Skadden list was exactly what you're saying: law firms don't care where you get your undergrad degree, so what's the point in ranking undergraduate programs as OP requested and so many are happy to oblige?

Because, for many people, college is their terminal degree.

You’re missing the point. The stupid author of that absurd blog is trying to point out “relax! Look at all these colleges which produce Skadden hirees!” But we lawyers are saying that’s an irrelevant point. What matters to top
Law firms that s the law school you went to, whether or not you are on law review, summer associate positions (based upon the former) and judicial clerkships. They don’t care about undergrad so the citation is worthless. Those of us who went to some of those SLACs (self included) were out indergrad’s valedictorians with high lsats so got into T3 law schools.

I don't disagree with you about what many top law firms care about regarding law school, although I'll point out that they're willing to go much deeper into the USNWR rankings percentage-wise than many on DCUM are willing to for undergrad programs. With around 2800 4-year undergrad schools, many seem to think only the top 1-2% are worth looking at. Top law firms take from law schools ranked in the top 5-10% of the 200 or so in the US. If people did that for undergrad schools, they'd be choosing from a list of at least 140 schools for their smart, ambitious, highly accomplished children. This would make a lot more sense and reduce a lot of anxiety.

The point you're missing is that the original post in this thread asked people to rank UNDERGRADUATE schools, so it is relevant to look at the undergraduate paths people took to get to desirable jobs regardless of whether they had some sort of graduate program in between. Those who barely miss out on being admitted to whichever of the schools in OP's challenge someone thinks is the best of that lot and have to 'settle for' whichever school they think is the worst of that lot are not going to see any difference in the future opportunities they have, so the whole exercise of trying to parse out which is 'the best' is pointless. I guess it's fun for grads of these schools to go at it with each other, but no one should take it seriously.

Perhaps I should have linked to the engineering list or the Wall Street list or the journalism list instead, all of which make the same point without requiring graduate school for most.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tier 1: Berkeley, Notre Dame, UVA
Tier 2: BC, Colby, Tulane
Tier 3: BU, UMD
Tier 4: Colgate, Fordham, Villanova

Agree.

This one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm curious to see how people (especially you HR folks and recruiters) would personally rank these schools if you had a recent graduate apply for an entry level job.

Colby College, Notre Dame, UC Berkeley, Boston College, Colgate, Fordham, Boston University, UVA, Villanova, Tulane, and UMD.

Easy

UC Berkeley
Notre Dame
UVA
Boston College
Colgate
Fordham
UMD
Colby
Boston University
Tulane

No way Tulane is at the bottom. Below UMD, Fordham, Colgate? LOL. Just no.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You’re forgetting that none of this matters with a strong alumni network. As a Colgate grad, I’ve personally benefited from it and the loyalty runs deep. I’d send my kid in a heartbeat over “better” schools.

There are many objectively better schools….no need for quotations.

[Anonymous]

Tier 1: UC Berkeley, Notre Dame, and UVA
Tier 2: Colgate, BC, and Colby
Tier 3: UMD, Boston U, Tulane, and Fordham

I think Colgate should be higher than how a lot of posters ranked them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess I disagree with the sentiment that top law firms care only about undergrad. I spent my career at Big Law and also went to a Top 3 law school. But I see a difference in the type of lawyer a person is depending on the type of undergrad institution. I think undergrad shapes a person more than law school does, and that shows up in how a person presents. I think someone who went to an elite undergrad is shaped at a critical age into a better rounded, more sophisticated person than a person who went to a huge state school near home and then went to a top law school. Law school is not a place to get educated.

Sorry, that too late firms “don’t” care about undergrad!

I seldom even look at the undergrad when doing lateral or summer hiring. I check to see if the candidate went to my alma mater or a rival to have something non-law to talk about. Plus, many of the lawyers I know who went to the Ivies or other "elite" schools are awkward and/or pinheads.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This website has lists of the undergraduate schools attended for people in 12 fields. Look at them and then tell us you think HR cares about the school attended more than the individual's qualifications.....

https://lesshighschoolstress.com/law/

While you're at it, on the same site a study by the Chronicle of Higher Ed is quoted that shows employers surveyed about what factors matter when hiring new graduates placed college prestige dead last.

https://lesshighschoolstress.com/page/5/

Law firms particularly (other than, maybe, small ones where going to the same college as the partners could help) and other legal employers could care less where you got your undergrad degree. But, I promise you they care about the name of your JD. Many firms won't even hire outside the top tier (or only in very special circumstances). So the first set is 100% useless. Show me the same data about Skadden but this time with the law school rather than undergrad.

I think the point of showing the Skadden list was exactly what you're saying: law firms don't care where you get your undergrad degree, so what's the point in ranking undergraduate programs as OP requested and so many are happy to oblige?

Because, for many people, college is their terminal degree.

You’re missing the point. The stupid author of that absurd blog is trying to point out “relax! Look at all these colleges which produce Skadden hirees!” But we lawyers are saying that’s an irrelevant point. What matters to top
Law firms that s the law school you went to, whether or not you are on law review, summer associate positions (based upon the former) and judicial clerkships. They don’t care about undergrad so the citation is worthless. Those of us who went to some of those SLACs (self included) were out indergrad’s valedictorians with high lsats so got into T3 law schools.

I don't disagree with you about what many top law firms care about regarding law school, although I'll point out that they're willing to go much deeper into the USNWR rankings percentage-wise than many on DCUM are willing to for undergrad programs. With around 2800 4-year undergrad schools, many seem to think only the top 1-2% are worth looking at. Top law firms take from law schools ranked in the top 5-10% of the 200 or so in the US. If people did that for undergrad schools, they'd be choosing from a list of at least 140 schools for their smart, ambitious, highly accomplished children. This would make a lot more sense and reduce a lot of anxiety.

The point you're missing is that the original post in this thread asked people to rank UNDERGRADUATE schools, so it is relevant to look at the undergraduate paths people took to get to desirable jobs regardless of whether they had some sort of graduate program in between. Those who barely miss out on being admitted to whichever of the schools in OP's challenge someone thinks is the best of that lot and have to 'settle for' whichever school they think is the worst of that lot are not going to see any difference in the future opportunities they have, so the whole exercise of trying to parse out which is 'the best' is pointless. I guess it's fun for grads of these schools to go at it with each other, but no one should take it seriously.

Perhaps I should have linked to the engineering list or the Wall Street list or the journalism list instead, all of which make the same point without requiring graduate school for most.

That would have made far more sense.