The White Lotus season 2

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really think that in every season of White Lotus there should be a nice middle aged couple that has good values and is well off but not super rich and makes good, decent choices and doesn’t kill anyone or take advantage of the help and has a really nice vacation. Just for contrast.

Still trying to catch up on the thread, sorry if this has been addressed, but I think that’s at least implied by some of the non-character guests in the background. Or at least, I *hope* it’s implied and White isn’t arguing that every person has the capacity to be so awful! The nice people would be wonderful in real life but probably boring as tv characters.

After the last episode, my husband said to me “I wouldn’t want to be at that hotel for anything.” I was confused because the area looks beautiful. But he clarified that he wouldn’t want to be any one of those characters, or part of those families, despite their wealth. Awkward dinners like the ones in this show are fun to watch but would be so depressing in real life.

I don't know - is Theo James suggestively stroking my thigh?

Uh, I don't care that he looks like Theo James, Cameron has a major "consent is optional" vibe and no, I would not enjoy having my thigh stroked under the table by my husband's college roommate right after my husband has pointed out that the guy has a history of going after women after they express an interest in my DH.

I don't personally think Harper "likes" it either, just that she's in a very heightened state and looking to inflict damage, so views it as something that might be useful to her in that respect. She doesn't reciprocate or lean into it. She just lets it happen.

You are no fun.

Harper is attracted to Cameron for sure. You can see it in their earlier interactions, like in the ocean. She doesn't like him as a person, and she's (correctly) kind of scared of him, but there's definitely some sexual tension

Your read is probably the right one, especially given that the show was written by a man.

But my college friend who was most like Harper loooooved to mess with flirty men that she considered beneath her. As a nerd-turned-pretty, of course she enjoyed the attention. And of course it was even more fun if they were good-looking. It was also more fun if she disliked the person, because it’s no fun to mess with someone nice. But at the end of the night, she was never going to say yes to them. Her joy came from the process of batting them around like a cat with a mouse and enjoying her mental superiority. On a trip with a Cameron, I could totally picture her with a little private smile of “ooh, this stupid trip is going to be more fun than I thought.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the frescoes are important so I'm going to post them

First Harper, a golden bird attacking another. Is money attacking her or is she attacking another bird (Daphne?)



Daphne, the mother. But also the shows creator says they are cherubs, known for being mischievous and playing games



Cameron, without his masculine parts, being humiliated by a dog. Showing that despite his bravado he is one of the least powerful characters on the show



Tanya, keeping a monkey shackled for entertainment and high in a window (linked to the woman on the island who falls to her death in the story Tom Holland tells)



Greg - a man and a woman on a pack mule with the pack mule staring at the camera



I'm having trouble finding the rest and I can't screenshot and post them so:

Nonno - An old man courting a young beautiful woman

Albie - A young man playing an instrument for a beautiful woman lying on the ground at his feet. A dog, not dissimilar to the dog in the Cameron fresco is gently jumping up on her

Mia - The Asian Sphinx, who will kill travelers who can't decipher her riddle, looking down from above. Strong and s*xual

Quentin - Four men, two looking longingly at one looking at the camera and another looking longingly at one of those men. The man looking at the camera is seated almost on a throne. A woman is facing away from them, walking in another direction

Valentina - Close up of that woman walking in another direction who is now looking at two women entangled in a bed

Dom - A man fallen to his knees in supplication before a beautiful woman who is holding a necklace out over a cliff

Portia - A girl with her head twisted almost unnaturally towards the sky, on the ground, seemingly doing some chore while a goat stares at her

Ethan - A beautiful woman holding up a hand to either take something or to push someone back and a man in front of her holding a bowl overflowing with goods. His head is downward and unreadable, staring at his goods and seemingly oblivious to the woman

Lucia - A leopard or some big cat holding its fish walking languidly

Essex Boy - One man sitting leaning against a column while another stands above him, seemingly bringing his pelvis towards the sitting man's face. Great intimacy implied between them

The Aubrey plaza fresco is a bird attacking/clipping the wings of another bird. Keeping Ethan in check?

Or has Ethan clipped her wings?

Maybe the two of them turning on each other

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My latest theory is that Lucia confronts Cameron and Daphne interrupts. Probably in their hotel room. There's a big fight and Daphne kills Lucia (hitting her on the head with a statue or something like that). Cameron tells Daphne to get out of there and lie on the beach and he'll take care of the body. Daphne brushes against a dead body in the water and freaks out, but the dead body is not actually Lucia but someone else (Portia or Tanya maybe? Though I know everyone thinks Tanya will be back next season).

I think this is a very real possibility for the death. The first scenario that feels true. I think Lucia is almost certainly one of the bodies given the story of St Lucia and the symbolism tying her to St Lucia all through the show and I think it will tie to her overplaying the hand she's been dealt in some way.

I think potentially adding to this that Ethan or Harper encounter Cameron doing something with the body and one of them ends up collateral damage in the aftermath. I could see this similar situation happening with Laura Dern as the killer as well. Or Mia. But in some way the girls confronting one of their targets will get one of them killed, I think there is a lot to suggest that will happen.

This is a decent theory but my money is still on Ethan doing something that leads to someone (Cameron? Harper? Lucia or Mia? Even someone unrelated to the foursome like Portia or Isabella?) dying. Just because he is the character who seems most homicidal at this point. Something is Wrong with Ethan. It wasn't just the way he was ripping into Cameron in the last episode, bringing up all these clearly longheld resentments. It's also how he responded to Mia's advances the night before. Not just turning her down, and not just turning her down in a regretful "I wish I could but don't want to betray my wife" way. But fully breaking down weeping over the situation which seems like a weird response. He's also had weird reactions to Harper walking in on him jerking off, and Harper trying to start something with him on another morning. Just strange and unexpected reactions to situations that make me feel like something is very off about him and he's got a ton of bottled up emotion that could explode out of him at any moment. Ethan is the guy I'd be most worried about being trapped in a room with at this point, followed immediately by Greg, then Cameron, then Albie, then Dom.

Daphne is the only one of the women I think is capable of cold blooded murder, but any of them could kill someone in self-defense. Except Mia. I don't think Mia kills anyone unless it's by accidental drug overdose.

I keep wondering about Ethan too. You definitely have more insight about the character; for me it’s more just “you don’t hire Will Sharpe if you’re not going to use him for more than this.” Maybe you do, because it’s not like he’s a huge name. But he’s a very good actor who has already won a BAFTA, and he’s certainly capable of more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really think that in every season of White Lotus there should be a nice middle aged couple that has good values and is well off but not super rich and makes good, decent choices and doesn’t kill anyone or take advantage of the help and has a really nice vacation. Just for contrast.

Still trying to catch up on the thread, sorry if this has been addressed, but I think that’s at least implied by some of the non-character guests in the background. Or at least, I *hope* it’s implied and White isn’t arguing that every person has the capacity to be so awful! The nice people would be wonderful in real life but probably boring as tv characters.

After the last episode, my husband said to me “I wouldn’t want to be at that hotel for anything.” I was confused because the area looks beautiful. But he clarified that he wouldn’t want to be any one of those characters, or part of those families, despite their wealth. Awkward dinners like the ones in this show are fun to watch but would be so depressing in real life.

I don't know - is Theo James suggestively stroking my thigh?

Uh, I don't care that he looks like Theo James, Cameron has a major "consent is optional" vibe and no, I would not enjoy having my thigh stroked under the table by my husband's college roommate right after my husband has pointed out that the guy has a history of going after women after they express an interest in my DH.

I don't personally think Harper "likes" it either, just that she's in a very heightened state and looking to inflict damage, so views it as something that might be useful to her in that respect. She doesn't reciprocate or lean into it. She just lets it happen.

You are no fun.

Harper is attracted to Cameron for sure. You can see it in their earlier interactions, like in the ocean. She doesn't like him as a person, and she's (correctly) kind of scared of him, but there's definitely some sexual tension

Your read is probably the right one, especially given that the show was written by a man.

But my college friend who was most like Harper loooooved to mess with flirty men that she considered beneath her. As a nerd-turned-pretty, of course she enjoyed the attention. And of course it was even more fun if they were good-looking. It was also more fun if she disliked the person, because it’s no fun to mess with someone nice. But at the end of the night, she was never going to say yes to them. Her joy came from the process of batting them around like a cat with a mouse and enjoying her mental superiority. On a trip with a Cameron, I could totally picture her with a little private smile of “ooh, this stupid trip is going to be more fun than I thought.”

I think Harper sees that he is attractive and attracted to her and she is enjoying the attention because she's been starved of it and she sees that this is bothering Ethan and she enjoys THAT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Speaking of the Godfather, have any characters been spotted eating oranges? Or any oranges spotted as ingredients in any of the meals? I could see that being a fun Easter egg to spot because the orange thing is pretty famous Godfather reference (characters eating/buying/being bear oranges right before they die).

There have been big orange slices in the aperol spritzes, which I figured as a head nod.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really think that in every season of White Lotus there should be a nice middle aged couple that has good values and is well off but not super rich and makes good, decent choices and doesn’t kill anyone or take advantage of the help and has a really nice vacation. Just for contrast.

Still trying to catch up on the thread, sorry if this has been addressed, but I think that’s at least implied by some of the non-character guests in the background. Or at least, I *hope* it’s implied and White isn’t arguing that every person has the capacity to be so awful! The nice people would be wonderful in real life but probably boring as tv characters.

After the last episode, my husband said to me “I wouldn’t want to be at that hotel for anything.” I was confused because the area looks beautiful. But he clarified that he wouldn’t want to be any one of those characters, or part of those families, despite their wealth. Awkward dinners like the ones in this show are fun to watch but would be so depressing in real life.

Yes, I'm PP and I agree that it's sort of implied. And I see what you and others are saying about that being boring. But I also think that it would be sort of hilarious if, after we see Tanya checking in with 115 bags we see John and Abby going to their room for the first time and finding it beautiful and leaving Rocco a nice tip. And then after Tanya loses it with her fortune teller we could check in with John and Abby who are getting a couples spa service and are totally relaxed. Maybe one day at breakfast they have to send an order back because they ordered an omelette and not french toast but they do it with a smile and the waiter who brings them the replacement gives them a complimentary bottle of champagne or something, and everyone is happy. It would be sort of like the shots of the ocean in between scenes, showing the passage of time and life moving on, except completely without the malevolent undertones.

I know nobody else wants this, but I think it would ground everything in reality in a kind of hilarious way, because right now even though I am enjoying it, it's all completely ridiculous. Almost none of these characters, though amusing, are remotely based in reality. Tanya is ridiculous. The hotel owner is ridiculous. The people who befriend Tanya are ridiculous. Portia being so filled with anxiety staying at a 5 star hotel is ridiculous. The idea of Ethan taking this vacation with Cameron out of the blue when Cameron was a jerk to him in college is ridiculous. Cameron wanting to make money off Ethan and also trying to seduce his wife is crazily not real.

It's all interesting and entertaining and I've participated in this thread with a lot of enjoyment. But it is also absolutely crazy and not approaching reality. Some of the ideas in here, sure, but most of the behavior, no.

I grew up Waspy and interestingly I find almost all the characters quite believable!

I’m the PP with the husband who wouldn’t trade our lives for any of this, and I find your experience fascinating! I grew up middle class in the Midwest and am professional-but-not-rich now, so I’ve never known anyone like this and had no idea.

The one time our family at least crossed paths with these rich types was actually at a White Lotus-style resort, in California. (We we’re staying for free on hotel points.) At one point I said something to my husband about how unusually kind and helpful all the staff members were, and he pointed out that it had to be because we were the only people in the place who were genuinely nice to the staff. I only overheard one other family talking to a waiter in a friendly way, at it was a very boundary-crossing, Tanya-and-Belinda kind of friendliness.

Possibly also related: if I remember right, our family were the only people of color among the hundreds of guests. It reminds me of the comment between Harper and Ethan about being “white-passing.” I wonder whether Mike White purposely cast them with race in mind or he just cast who he wanted and either Plaza or Sharpe noticed and added that remark. Normally I’d assume any line was the writer’s, but as the white person in my mixed family, I can vouch that I’m often (not always, but often) oblivious to those dynamics until DH or DC points it out to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Speaking of the Godfather, have any characters been spotted eating oranges? Or any oranges spotted as ingredients in any of the meals? I could see that being a fun Easter egg to spot because the orange thing is pretty famous Godfather reference (characters eating/buying/being bear oranges right before they die).

There have been big orange slices in the aperol spritzes, which I figured as a head nod.

Eh, that's how an aperol spriz is made and they drank aperol spritzes because that's what you do on vacation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Speaking of the Godfather, have any characters been spotted eating oranges? Or any oranges spotted as ingredients in any of the meals? I could see that being a fun Easter egg to spot because the orange thing is pretty famous Godfather reference (characters eating/buying/being bear oranges right before they die).

There have been big orange slices in the aperol spritzes, which I figured as a head nod.

Eh, that's how an aperol spriz is made and they drank aperol spritzes because that's what you do on vacation.

Oranges also exist in the world and people eat them because they're food. Didn't stop them from being meaningful in the Godfather.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A podcast I listen to (Still Watching from Vanity Fair) pointed out that Ethan shows some real signs of not just anger but rage in the conversation about mimetic desire. Their point, which I agree with, is that it's clear from that conversation that Ethan's resentment towards and dislike of Cameron goes all the way back to college and that Ethan is nowhere near over it. One of the guys on the podcasts talked specifically about that kind of anger where maybe you don't think about for a long time, but then when you do think about it, it's so strong that it almost makes you vibrate. Their point on the podcast was that this scene illustrates that Ethan might have it in him to straight up murder Cameron.

While not a murderer ( ) this comment struck me because I immediately recognized that type of anger. I have a person from my past who I haven't seen in a long time and would definitely not choose to go on vacation with, but if I did find myself, for some reason, sitting down to dinner with them and our spouses, and they were acting like the same a$$hole they've always been, that is exactly the kind of rage I'd feel -- just vibrating, almost hard to control rage. I'm sure I'd handle it by either crying or screaming at them, not murdering them, but I absolutely recognize that feeling. There are some harms that cut very, very deep and stick with you. A healthy person gets far away from the person who caused the harm but Ethan, intriguingly, has decided to spend a lengthy vacation in a hotel with adjoining rooms, in a small town on an island with that person. That's... a choice.

This is the best take on Ethan that I've read.

I think many of us have had a frenemy like that at some point in our lives. Cameron is the true frenemy. He acts like Ethan is a great friend, but he only wants that if he is clearly superior to Ethan. He can't handle Ethan being 'better' then him in any way. It bothered him Ethan was smarter, achieved his success completely on his own (came from nothing). Ethan isn't a player and Cameron loves to think he's superior because he cheats/gets laid.

Ethan has had enough. He no longer is threatened by Cameron and he sees him for what he is. He's gained self-worth with his success and won't be pushed around anymore.

But he still needs his approval or he wouldn't have accepted the invitation to go on vacation.

That's an assumption - it may be that Ethan has other motives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Speaking of the Godfather, have any characters been spotted eating oranges? Or any oranges spotted as ingredients in any of the meals? I could see that being a fun Easter egg to spot because the orange thing is pretty famous Godfather reference (characters eating/buying/being bear oranges right before they die).

There have been big orange slices in the aperol spritzes, which I figured as a head nod.

Eh, that's how an aperol spriz is made and they drank aperol spritzes because that's what you do on vacation.

Oranges also exist in the world and people eat them because they're food. Didn't stop them from being meaningful in the Godfather.

I really think it was just because of the location. Aperol Spritzes are like the national drink of Italy in the summer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Speaking of the Godfather, have any characters been spotted eating oranges? Or any oranges spotted as ingredients in any of the meals? I could see that being a fun Easter egg to spot because the orange thing is pretty famous Godfather reference (characters eating/buying/being bear oranges right before they die).

There have been big orange slices in the aperol spritzes, which I figured as a head nod.

Eh, that's how an aperol spriz is made and they drank aperol spritzes because that's what you do on vacation.

Oranges also exist in the world and people eat them because they're food. Didn't stop them from being meaningful in the Godfather.

I really think it was just because of the location. Aperol Spritzes are like the national drink of Italy in the summer.

I'm aware. Italy is littered with frescoes and art IRL too. They are still being used symbolically in the show.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really think that in every season of White Lotus there should be a nice middle aged couple that has good values and is well off but not super rich and makes good, decent choices and doesn’t kill anyone or take advantage of the help and has a really nice vacation. Just for contrast.

Still trying to catch up on the thread, sorry if this has been addressed, but I think that’s at least implied by some of the non-character guests in the background. Or at least, I *hope* it’s implied and White isn’t arguing that every person has the capacity to be so awful! The nice people would be wonderful in real life but probably boring as tv characters.

After the last episode, my husband said to me “I wouldn’t want to be at that hotel for anything.” I was confused because the area looks beautiful. But he clarified that he wouldn’t want to be any one of those characters, or part of those families, despite their wealth. Awkward dinners like the ones in this show are fun to watch but would be so depressing in real life.

Yes, I'm PP and I agree that it's sort of implied. And I see what you and others are saying about that being boring. But I also think that it would be sort of hilarious if, after we see Tanya checking in with 115 bags we see John and Abby going to their room for the first time and finding it beautiful and leaving Rocco a nice tip. And then after Tanya loses it with her fortune teller we could check in with John and Abby who are getting a couples spa service and are totally relaxed. Maybe one day at breakfast they have to send an order back because they ordered an omelette and not french toast but they do it with a smile and the waiter who brings them the replacement gives them a complimentary bottle of champagne or something, and everyone is happy. It would be sort of like the shots of the ocean in between scenes, showing the passage of time and life moving on, except completely without the malevolent undertones.

I know nobody else wants this, but I think it would ground everything in reality in a kind of hilarious way, because right now even though I am enjoying it, it's all completely ridiculous. Almost none of these characters, though amusing, are remotely based in reality. Tanya is ridiculous. The hotel owner is ridiculous. The people who befriend Tanya are ridiculous. Portia being so filled with anxiety staying at a 5 star hotel is ridiculous. The idea of Ethan taking this vacation with Cameron out of the blue when Cameron was a jerk to him in college is ridiculous. Cameron wanting to make money off Ethan and also trying to seduce his wife is crazily not real.

It's all interesting and entertaining and I've participated in this thread with a lot of enjoyment. But it is also absolutely crazy and not approaching reality. Some of the ideas in here, sure, but most of the behavior, no.

I grew up Waspy and interestingly I find almost all the characters quite believable!

I’m the PP with the husband who wouldn’t trade our lives for any of this, and I find your experience fascinating! I grew up middle class in the Midwest and am professional-but-not-rich now, so I’ve never known anyone like this and had no idea.

The one time our family at least crossed paths with these rich types was actually at a White Lotus-style resort, in California. (We we’re staying for free on hotel points.) At one point I said something to my husband about how unusually kind and helpful all the staff members were, and he pointed out that it had to be because we were the only people in the place who were genuinely nice to the staff. I only overheard one other family talking to a waiter in a friendly way, at it was a very boundary-crossing, Tanya-and-Belinda kind of friendliness.

Possibly also related: if I remember right, our family were the only people of color among the hundreds of guests. It reminds me of the comment between Harper and Ethan about being “white-passing.” I wonder whether Mike White purposely cast them with race in mind or he just cast who he wanted and either Plaza or Sharpe noticed and added that remark. Normally I’d assume any line was the writer’s, but as the white person in my mixed family, I can vouch that I’m often (not always, but often) oblivious to those dynamics until DH or DC points it out to me.

Oh interesting, what hotel was it out of curiosity? I don’t have the means to stay at a White Lotus-style resort but it’s fun to daydream. Is it like Aman-level?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the frescoes are important so I'm going to post them

First Harper, a golden bird attacking another. Is money attacking her or is she attacking another bird (Daphne?)



Daphne, the mother. But also the shows creator says they are cherubs, known for being mischievous and playing games



Cameron, without his masculine parts, being humiliated by a dog. Showing that despite his bravado he is one of the least powerful characters on the show



Tanya, keeping a monkey shackled for entertainment and high in a window (linked to the woman on the island who falls to her death in the story Tom Holland tells)



Greg - a man and a woman on a pack mule with the pack mule staring at the camera



I'm having trouble finding the rest and I can't screenshot and post them so:

Nonno - An old man courting a young beautiful woman

Albie - A young man playing an instrument for a beautiful woman lying on the ground at his feet. A dog, not dissimilar to the dog in the Cameron fresco is gently jumping up on her

Mia - The Asian Sphinx, who will kill travelers who can't decipher her riddle, looking down from above. Strong and s*xual

Quentin - Four men, two looking longingly at one looking at the camera and another looking longingly at one of those men. The man looking at the camera is seated almost on a throne. A woman is facing away from them, walking in another direction

Valentina - Close up of that woman walking in another direction who is now looking at two women entangled in a bed

Dom - A man fallen to his knees in supplication before a beautiful woman who is holding a necklace out over a cliff

Portia - A girl with her head twisted almost unnaturally towards the sky, on the ground, seemingly doing some chore while a goat stares at her

Ethan - A beautiful woman holding up a hand to either take something or to push someone back and a man in front of her holding a bowl overflowing with goods. His head is downward and unreadable, staring at his goods and seemingly oblivious to the woman

Lucia - A leopard or some big cat holding its fish walking languidly

Essex Boy - One man sitting leaning against a column while another stands above him, seemingly bringing his pelvis towards the sitting man's face. Great intimacy implied between them

The Aubrey plaza fresco is a bird attacking/clipping the wings of another bird. Keeping Ethan in check?

A harpy is a bird - human that loves to extract revenge and punish

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Speaking of the Godfather, have any characters been spotted eating oranges? Or any oranges spotted as ingredients in any of the meals? I could see that being a fun Easter egg to spot because the orange thing is pretty famous Godfather reference (characters eating/buying/being bear oranges right before they die).

There have been big orange slices in the aperol spritzes, which I figured as a head nod.

I would love to know how all these set and costume details come about. Like do the writers share the script and then the set/costume people figure out these details or something else? Like when Harper’s outfits change with her demeanor or how Albie wore his socks when he had sex with Lucia, etc. Such minor decisions but they complete a picture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Speaking of the Godfather, have any characters been spotted eating oranges? Or any oranges spotted as ingredients in any of the meals? I could see that being a fun Easter egg to spot because the orange thing is pretty famous Godfather reference (characters eating/buying/being bear oranges right before they die).

There have been big orange slices in the aperol spritzes, which I figured as a head nod.

I would love to know how all these set and costume details come about. Like do the writers share the script and then the set/costume people figure out these details or something else? Like when Harper’s outfits change with her demeanor or how Albie wore his socks when he had sex with Lucia, etc. Such minor decisions but they complete a picture.

Both times he left his socks on! So gross