US Supreme Court Rules Against Affirmative Action in College Admissions

[Anonymous]

The Shape of the River The Long-Term Consequences of Considering Race in Admissions in Colleges and University Admissions (published in 1998). Princeton University Press

Since it was first published 25 years ago, it will be interesting to read the authors' predictions in light of the realities of today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So many points people are ignoring:

The people who run colleges are overwhelmingly NOT racist and not prejudiced against any one race.

Those people believe with good intent they need a racial balance to achieve their mission. It's a complex issue. You can speak to them about why, or read a book, like "The Shape Of The River", which I bet none of you people celebrating today have done.

These are smart people, and they will adjust their policy to achieve their mission without violating the SC decision. This is likely to negatively effect Asians - who are now the most over-represented race at elite colleges (the only ones anyone here cares about).

Be careful what you wish for.

These elite institutions are international in scope and transcend borders. There are more Asians in the world than any other race. They should be there in high numbers.

If you believe they should be at American institutions in high numbers, maybe it’s time for Asian countries to create world class elite institutions. Asians didn’t found the institutions here, why should anyone admit more Asians just because there are more Asians than any other race? Are you joking?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The funny part is that these Asian immigrants would not be here had it not been for the people like MLK who took a bullet for everyone. Some Asians don't like to discuss this because it reminds them that they are viewed as not white.
Maybe the civil rights leaders should have only focused on what would be best for African Americans and Native Americans. Forget immigrants, including those from Africa.

Didn't know Asians started to immigrate to the US because of MLK. I know you guys are bad at math and science and didn't know you're so bad at history too. So what are you good at?

Black person here to say eff you:

“The Civil Rights Movement that culminated in the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 ushered in a new age when we could envision the color of one’s skin may be neither an advantage nor a disadvantage. It also led to the overhaul of our immigration system, dismantling the preferences favoring those from the Western hemisphere by offering equal opportunity to everyone to immigrate to the United States without discrimination based on one’s national origin under the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965.”

-On remembering the legacy of Dr. Martin Luther King

https://www.houstonimmigration.org/on-remembering-the-legacy-of-dr-martin-luther-king-jr/#:~:text=It%20also%20led%20to%20the,and%20Nationality%20Act%20of%201965.

And Asian Indian person to say eff you to the black person who says eff you:

Have you not heard of the decolonization movement in india and Asia in the 1940s and 1950s that precended the US Civil Rights movement in the 1960s? Do you think the black Civil rights movement in the 1960s would have been successful without the decolonization moments in india that happened in the first half of the 20th century? So before you throw stones ar Asians perhaps you should look at your own history more carefully.

Not everything revolves around India as much as you would like to believe it.
Your presence in the US owes much to MLK and Black Americans unending fight for justice. Be grateful!

And MLK would not be who he is without the non-violent movement that was championed by Gandhi. So there.

That doesn’t change the point of their message: Asians did, in fact, start to immigrate to the US in much higher numbers due to the Civil Rights Movement loosening the country’s racist immigration laws. Sure, MLK was inspired by Gandhi, but it was MLK, not Gandhi, who got the job done here, and we should be grateful for that.

— child of Indian immigrants

Indians have the same color of skin as blacks. Yet, they are hugely successful. Why are blacks so special that you have to feel sorry for? Did Indians enslaved blacks?

Dear Lord! Are the current Indian immigrants and their offspring descendants of enslaved people? From my experience, the “successful” Indian families I know come from a position of relative privilege- wealthy enough to pay for a US education or come with a work visa because they have a sought after degree. Did they grow up with the same hurdles most Black and Hispanic face? Probably not.

The offsprings of Nigerian doctors that Harvard admitted were NOT descendants of enslaved people. And they grew up in a much wealthier environment than a lot of the Indian immigrants.
Just admit you're buying votes with affirmative action, not really trying to help the poor blacks. It's not that hard to see.

Affirmative Action is not and never has been about poverty or class. It was a remedy for the fact that in this country black people, all black people no matter where they were born or when they arrived or how much money they have, are discriminated against because of the color of their skin, limiting opportunity, freedom, access to colleges and board rooms, and creating a deficit of role models for black youth in industry and professions.

Affirmative Action is a remedy for discrimination, not poverty.

Wow. What an ignorant, insular and close-minded point of view.

Do you realize there are groups of people all over the world who have been discriminated against and treated just as poorly as (or even worse) than the way black people have been treated in the US?

But we are talking about the US here. Blacks were brought here unwillingly and have been here since the inception. The US doesn’t owe every victim from every country a break. Why should we? The US has its fair share of issues, why do we feel the need to save everyone?

If that’s the bar, the you need to exclude recent black immigrants.

Agreed

Hard to prove on dcum but I am a West African immigrant and yes! If I'm excluded it makes logical sense to me . This isn't the slam dunk you two weirdos think it is. People are like ne and you Asians have nothing to do with the US rising to be the nation it is today. That shouldn't be hard to comprehend, truly.

Yes, if you choose to come here for whatever reason, you have little room to complain about being discriminated against. Why come here at all? Not to sound snarky but why do this? Why do we owe you anything more than your country of origin?

Is this the white liberal mindset?

If I willingly move to a country where I am a minority, why should I be shocked that I am being treated unfairly? Not sure why immigrants choose to move here knowing that such discrimination exists. It’s a longstanding issue. Unfixable. Even if I was a first generation and felt so oppressed, I would question why am I here? Why did my parent move here? Maybe my parents were disillusioned.

The Supreme Court disagreed with your very biased and racist view

So? The current SCOTUS is invalid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The funny part is that these Asian immigrants would not be here had it not been for the people like MLK who took a bullet for everyone. Some Asians don't like to discuss this because it reminds them that they are viewed as not white.
Maybe the civil rights leaders should have only focused on what would be best for African Americans and Native Americans. Forget immigrants, including those from Africa.

Didn't know Asians started to immigrate to the US because of MLK. I know you guys are bad at math and science and didn't know you're so bad at history too. So what are you good at?

Black person here to say eff you:

“The Civil Rights Movement that culminated in the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 ushered in a new age when we could envision the color of one’s skin may be neither an advantage nor a disadvantage. It also led to the overhaul of our immigration system, dismantling the preferences favoring those from the Western hemisphere by offering equal opportunity to everyone to immigrate to the United States without discrimination based on one’s national origin under the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965.”

-On remembering the legacy of Dr. Martin Luther King

https://www.houstonimmigration.org/on-remembering-the-legacy-of-dr-martin-luther-king-jr/#:~:text=It%20also%20led%20to%20the,and%20Nationality%20Act%20of%201965.

And Asian Indian person to say eff you to the black person who says eff you:

Have you not heard of the decolonization movement in india and Asia in the 1940s and 1950s that precended the US Civil Rights movement in the 1960s? Do you think the black Civil rights movement in the 1960s would have been successful without the decolonization moments in india that happened in the first half of the 20th century? So before you throw stones ar Asians perhaps you should look at your own history more carefully.

Not everything revolves around India as much as you would like to believe it.
Your presence in the US owes much to MLK and Black Americans unending fight for justice. Be grateful!

And MLK would not be who he is without the non-violent movement that was championed by Gandhi. So there.

That doesn’t change the point of their message: Asians did, in fact, start to immigrate to the US in much higher numbers due to the Civil Rights Movement loosening the country’s racist immigration laws. Sure, MLK was inspired by Gandhi, but it was MLK, not Gandhi, who got the job done here, and we should be grateful for that.

— child of Indian immigrants

Indians have the same color of skin as blacks. Yet, they are hugely successful. Why are blacks so special that you have to feel sorry for? Did Indians enslaved blacks?

Dear Lord! Are the current Indian immigrants and their offspring descendants of enslaved people? From my experience, the “successful” Indian families I know come from a position of relative privilege- wealthy enough to pay for a US education or come with a work visa because they have a sought after degree. Did they grow up with the same hurdles most Black and Hispanic face? Probably not.

The offsprings of Nigerian doctors that Harvard admitted were NOT descendants of enslaved people. And they grew up in a much wealthier environment than a lot of the Indian immigrants.
Just admit you're buying votes with affirmative action, not really trying to help the poor blacks. It's not that hard to see.

Affirmative Action is not and never has been about poverty or class. It was a remedy for the fact that in this country black people, all black people no matter where they were born or when they arrived or how much money they have, are discriminated against because of the color of their skin, limiting opportunity, freedom, access to colleges and board rooms, and creating a deficit of role models for black youth in industry and professions.

Affirmative Action is a remedy for discrimination, not poverty.

Wow. What an ignorant, insular and close-minded point of view.

Do you realize there are groups of people all over the world who have been discriminated against and treated just as poorly as (or even worse) than the way black people have been treated in the US?

But we are talking about the US here. Blacks were brought here unwillingly and have been here since the inception. The US doesn’t owe every victim from every country a break. Why should we? The US has its fair share of issues, why do we feel the need to save everyone?

If that’s the bar, the you need to exclude recent black immigrants.

Agreed

Hard to prove on dcum but I am a West African immigrant and yes! If I'm excluded it makes logical sense to me . This isn't the slam dunk you two weirdos think it is. People are like ne and you Asians have nothing to do with the US rising to be the nation it is today. That shouldn't be hard to comprehend, truly.

Yes, if you choose to come here for whatever reason, you have little room to complain about being discriminated against. Why come here at all? Not to sound snarky but why do this? Why do we owe you anything more than your country of origin?

Is this the white liberal mindset?

If I willingly move to a country where I am a minority, why should I be shocked that I am being treated unfairly? Not sure why immigrants choose to move here knowing that such discrimination exists. It’s a longstanding issue. Unfixable. Even if I was a first generation and felt so oppressed, I would question why am I here? Why did my parent move here? Maybe my parents were disillusioned.

The Supreme Court disagreed with your very biased and racist view

So? The current SCOTUS is invalid.

Says some racist loser on DCUM?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So many points people are ignoring:

The people who run colleges are overwhelmingly NOT racist and not prejudiced against any one race.

Those people believe with good intent they need a racial balance to achieve their mission. It's a complex issue. You can speak to them about why, or read a book, like "The Shape Of The River", which I bet none of you people celebrating today have done.

These are smart people, and they will adjust their policy to achieve their mission without violating the SC decision. This is likely to negatively effect Asians - who are now the most over-represented race at elite colleges (the only ones anyone here cares about).

Be careful what you wish for.

These elite institutions are international in scope and transcend borders. There are more Asians in the world than any other race. They should be there in high numbers.

If you believe they should be at American institutions in high numbers, maybe it’s time for Asian countries to create world class elite institutions. Asians didn’t found the institutions here, why should anyone admit more Asians just because there are more Asians than any other race? Are you joking?

Asians founded more world class institutions than Africans for sure.

[Anonymous]

We made one step forward.

Now Asians, Blacks, and unhooked-Whites all should be united agaisnt ALDC.

Let's move on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
We made one step forward.

Now Asians, Blacks, and unhooked-Whites all should be united agaisnt ALDC.

Let's move on.

That I agree%. But liberals are not moving on

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The funny part is that these Asian immigrants would not be here had it not been for the people like MLK who took a bullet for everyone. Some Asians don't like to discuss this because it reminds them that they are viewed as not white.
Maybe the civil rights leaders should have only focused on what would be best for African Americans and Native Americans. Forget immigrants, including those from Africa.

Didn't know Asians started to immigrate to the US because of MLK. I know you guys are bad at math and science and didn't know you're so bad at history too. So what are you good at?

Black person here to say eff you:

“The Civil Rights Movement that culminated in the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 ushered in a new age when we could envision the color of one’s skin may be neither an advantage nor a disadvantage. It also led to the overhaul of our immigration system, dismantling the preferences favoring those from the Western hemisphere by offering equal opportunity to everyone to immigrate to the United States without discrimination based on one’s national origin under the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965.”

-On remembering the legacy of Dr. Martin Luther King

https://www.houstonimmigration.org/on-remembering-the-legacy-of-dr-martin-luther-king-jr/#:~:text=It%20also%20led%20to%20the,and%20Nationality%20Act%20of%201965.

And Asian Indian person to say eff you to the black person who says eff you:

Have you not heard of the decolonization movement in india and Asia in the 1940s and 1950s that precended the US Civil Rights movement in the 1960s? Do you think the black Civil rights movement in the 1960s would have been successful without the decolonization moments in india that happened in the first half of the 20th century? So before you throw stones ar Asians perhaps you should look at your own history more carefully.

Not everything revolves around India as much as you would like to believe it.
Your presence in the US owes much to MLK and Black Americans unending fight for justice. Be grateful!

And MLK would not be who he is without the non-violent movement that was championed by Gandhi. So there.

That doesn’t change the point of their message: Asians did, in fact, start to immigrate to the US in much higher numbers due to the Civil Rights Movement loosening the country’s racist immigration laws. Sure, MLK was inspired by Gandhi, but it was MLK, not Gandhi, who got the job done here, and we should be grateful for that.

— child of Indian immigrants

Indians have the same color of skin as blacks. Yet, they are hugely successful. Why are blacks so special that you have to feel sorry for? Did Indians enslaved blacks?

Ignorant pawn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hope that Asian applicants understand that very little will change WRT Harvard: the chances of acceptance with “perfect scores” will be very low. And there will be white kids from West Virginia with lower scores who will get in. There will be black kids from the Bronx with lower scores who will get in. There will be Indian kids whose caste is “untouchable” with lower scores who will get in.

This case was never about Asian Americans. It was always about the equal protection clause that's in the constitution.

By PPs logic, whites and blacks with "perfect" stats go to the back of the line in favor of SE Asians whose parents arrived here in refugee boats. And those asians with "perfect" scores who are denied spots at top schools? They will have plenty of other options. They will be fine.

The case was never about equal protection.

If it were they would have gotten rid of legacy admits.

I certainly hope they tackle that next.

Who exactly is "they?"

It takes money and decades to make that happen. Are you taking up a collection?

“They” are white conservatives who have abused the system to obtain outsized power to force their unpopular beliefs on everyone else. They don’t want obstacles like AA to affect their white, male kids. They DGAF about minorities or women. And they will absolutely not touch legacy.

Fools.

There are black legacies. Blacks are free to donate. They are athletic. These are God's gifts. Are they not their own agencies with the abilities to direct their own lives? Justices Roberts and Thomas have spoken. Their words are the laws of the land.

Transparently racist!

Lol, you are missing the obvious point. Legacies don't make reference to race. Anyone can be a legacy. Anyone can donate. Harvard takes $$$ from blacks as well as they do from whites and Asians. That's why it's not unconstitutional.

That throws out any argument that admissions should be fair and based on merit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hope that Asian applicants understand that very little will change WRT Harvard: the chances of acceptance with “perfect scores” will be very low. And there will be white kids from West Virginia with lower scores who will get in. There will be black kids from the Bronx with lower scores who will get in. There will be Indian kids whose caste is “untouchable” with lower scores who will get in.

This case was never about Asian Americans. It was always about the equal protection clause that's in the constitution.

By PPs logic, whites and blacks with "perfect" stats go to the back of the line in favor of SE Asians whose parents arrived here in refugee boats. And those asians with "perfect" scores who are denied spots at top schools? They will have plenty of other options. They will be fine.

The case was never about equal protection.

If it were they would have gotten rid of legacy admits.

I certainly hope they tackle that next.

Who exactly is "they?"

It takes money and decades to make that happen. Are you taking up a collection?

“They” are white conservatives who have abused the system to obtain outsized power to force their unpopular beliefs on everyone else. They don’t want obstacles like AA to affect their white, male kids. They DGAF about minorities or women. And they will absolutely not touch legacy.

Fools.

There are black legacies. Blacks are free to donate. They are athletic. These are God's gifts. Are they not their own agencies with the abilities to direct their own lives? Justices Roberts and Thomas have spoken. Their words are the laws of the land.

Transparently racist!

Lol, you are missing the obvious point. Legacies don't make reference to race. Anyone can be a legacy. Anyone can donate. Harvard takes $$$ from blacks as well as they do from whites and Asians. That's why it's not unconstitutional.

That throws out any argument that admissions should be fair and based on merit.

Yes, and … ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:America ha been lagging behind the world for some time now. Hopefully, now thing will become better in America again. I do not want third world countries to surpass America.

Here is the POV I am talking about.

What’s the point?

As I suspected. Too dumb to even realize how far behind America has fallen.

This is directed at all races, if the US isn’t good enough for you, why are you even here? You could move somewhere else, somewhere better esp if you you have so many great qualities to offer.

And interestingly, the US has only ‘fallen’ since we began accepting people from every village in the world, that’s precisely when we began to lag behind the rest.

Since the beginning of the nation?

DP. I don't think there is a causation there, but it's true that immigration has skyrocketed over the past few decades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hope that Asian applicants understand that very little will change WRT Harvard: the chances of acceptance with “perfect scores” will be very low. And there will be white kids from West Virginia with lower scores who will get in. There will be black kids from the Bronx with lower scores who will get in. There will be Indian kids whose caste is “untouchable” with lower scores who will get in.

This case was never about Asian Americans. It was always about the equal protection clause that's in the constitution.

By PPs logic, whites and blacks with "perfect" stats go to the back of the line in favor of SE Asians whose parents arrived here in refugee boats. And those asians with "perfect" scores who are denied spots at top schools? They will have plenty of other options. They will be fine.

The case was never about equal protection.

If it were they would have gotten rid of legacy admits.

I certainly hope they tackle that next.

Who exactly is "they?"

It takes money and decades to make that happen. Are you taking up a collection?

“They” are white conservatives who have abused the system to obtain outsized power to force their unpopular beliefs on everyone else. They don’t want obstacles like AA to affect their white, male kids. They DGAF about minorities or women. And they will absolutely not touch legacy.

Fools.

There are black legacies. Blacks are free to donate. They are athletic. These are God's gifts. Are they not their own agencies with the abilities to direct their own lives? Justices Roberts and Thomas have spoken. Their words are the laws of the land.

Transparently racist!

Lol, you are missing the obvious point. Legacies don't make reference to race. Anyone can be a legacy. Anyone can donate. Harvard takes $$$ from blacks as well as they do from whites and Asians. That's why it's not unconstitutional.

That throws out any argument that admissions should be fair and based on merit.

Yes, and … ?

That was one of the key arguments people used against AA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hope that Asian applicants understand that very little will change WRT Harvard: the chances of acceptance with “perfect scores” will be very low. And there will be white kids from West Virginia with lower scores who will get in. There will be black kids from the Bronx with lower scores who will get in. There will be Indian kids whose caste is “untouchable” with lower scores who will get in.

This case was never about Asian Americans. It was always about the equal protection clause that's in the constitution.

By PPs logic, whites and blacks with "perfect" stats go to the back of the line in favor of SE Asians whose parents arrived here in refugee boats. And those asians with "perfect" scores who are denied spots at top schools? They will have plenty of other options. They will be fine.

The case was never about equal protection.

If it were they would have gotten rid of legacy admits.

I certainly hope they tackle that next.

Who exactly is "they?"

It takes money and decades to make that happen. Are you taking up a collection?

“They” are white conservatives who have abused the system to obtain outsized power to force their unpopular beliefs on everyone else. They don’t want obstacles like AA to affect their white, male kids. They DGAF about minorities or women. And they will absolutely not touch legacy.

Fools.

There are black legacies. Blacks are free to donate. They are athletic. These are God's gifts. Are they not their own agencies with the abilities to direct their own lives? Justices Roberts and Thomas have spoken. Their words are the laws of the land.

Transparently racist!

Lol, you are missing the obvious point. Legacies don't make reference to race. Anyone can be a legacy. Anyone can donate. Harvard takes $$$ from blacks as well as they do from whites and Asians. That's why it's not unconstitutional.

That throws out any argument that admissions should be fair and based on merit.

Yes, and … ?

It doesn't need to involve constitution.

If voters demand colleges to be more fair and transparent, there are many ways to enforce that.
State and Federal government can stop providing aid and support.
They can even start taxation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hope that Asian applicants understand that very little will change WRT Harvard: the chances of acceptance with “perfect scores” will be very low. And there will be white kids from West Virginia with lower scores who will get in. There will be black kids from the Bronx with lower scores who will get in. There will be Indian kids whose caste is “untouchable” with lower scores who will get in.

This case was never about Asian Americans. It was always about the equal protection clause that's in the constitution.

By PPs logic, whites and blacks with "perfect" stats go to the back of the line in favor of SE Asians whose parents arrived here in refugee boats. And those asians with "perfect" scores who are denied spots at top schools? They will have plenty of other options. They will be fine.

The case was never about equal protection.

If it were they would have gotten rid of legacy admits.

I certainly hope they tackle that next.

Who exactly is "they?"

It takes money and decades to make that happen. Are you taking up a collection?

“They” are white conservatives who have abused the system to obtain outsized power to force their unpopular beliefs on everyone else. They don’t want obstacles like AA to affect their white, male kids. They DGAF about minorities or women. And they will absolutely not touch legacy.

Fools.

There are black legacies. Blacks are free to donate. They are athletic. These are God's gifts. Are they not their own agencies with the abilities to direct their own lives? Justices Roberts and Thomas have spoken. Their words are the laws of the land.

Transparently racist!

Lol, you are missing the obvious point. Legacies don't make reference to race. Anyone can be a legacy. Anyone can donate. Harvard takes $$$ from blacks as well as they do from whites and Asians. That's why it's not unconstitutional.

That throws out any argument that admissions should be fair and based on merit.

Yes, and … ?

That was one of the key arguments people used against AA.

Just look 4 posts before yours (12:30). People mistakenly think it was about fairness.

Spoiler: the white supremacists didn't get rid of AA to make the process "fair". And they will keep ALDC.

[Anonymous]

The “loophole” is a nod to reality and wiñl be subject to future litigation. Many colleges/grad schools/medical schools already ask such questions. And, in the real world, as soon as an elite school sees that an applicant has checked the URM box, the sorting most likely occurs. Roberts tried to tighten it up by emphasizing that it must be linked to the individual’s particular circumstance to avoid running afoul of the Constitution. So, schools will just say that. Rich white kids won’t have those stories. But they’ll always have squash, lacrosse, and other rich white person sports to get dumb kids across the finish line.