Taylor Swift is awful (and her music isn't even very good)

[Anonymous]

You never hear other artists gush about what a great musician or person Taylor is. Why do you think Taylor is not respected by her fellow peers? Even her concerts have very few celebrities in attendance compared to Harry Styles or Beyonce.

[Anonymous]

Social media is bigger now than it’s ever been and it’s helping to drive publicity. She’s not calling the paparazzi, but they can find her pretty easily. She’s Taylor Swift. She doesn’t need the publicity. Madonna and all of them came up before social media.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You never hear other artists gush about what a great musician or person Taylor is. Why do you think Taylor is not respected by her fellow peers? Even her concerts have very few celebrities in attendance compared to Harry Styles or Beyonce.

This just proves you know nothing. Even my covid brain knows the opposite is true. Her songwriting has been praised by many many including the very best of songwriters: Paul McCartney, Billy Joel, Dolly Parton, Stevie Nicks, John Mayer, Ed Sheeran and on and on. Not to mention the gazillion industry and artist voted awards she’s won, a barrel full of Grammys and a gazillion other. I’m sure others can fill in with facts. I hate this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You never hear other artists gush about what a great musician or person Taylor is. Why do you think Taylor is not respected by her fellow peers? Even her concerts have very few celebrities in attendance compared to Harry Styles or Beyonce.

This just proves you know nothing. Even my covid brain knows the opposite is true. Her songwriting has been praised by many many including the very best of songwriters: Paul McCartney, Billy Joel, Dolly Parton, Stevie Nicks, John Mayer, Ed Sheeran and on and on. Not to mention the gazillion industry and artist voted awards she’s won, a barrel full of Grammys and a gazillion other. I’m sure others can fill in with facts. I hate this thread.

Out of curiosity, I looked up what Dolly had to say about Taylor. While Dolly was very gracious, she didn’t actually have anything nice to say. Dolly said that she doesn’t follow Taylor’s music, that touring is hard, so props to Taylor for doing it, and last but not least that she (Dolly) would be just there to work on the half-time show and wouldn’t be in the crowd watching before of after. That’s hardly an example of gushing praise.

I hate this thread too, because it shows me how fanatical people can get about a middling talent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know what I hate about Taylor? How ubiquitous she is. She was on the cover of my grandmother’s Russian language senior citizen newspaper. Why or why? Nobody who reads that has ever heard of Taylor and they are not interested in her music. The only reason I saw it was because I was visiting my grandma in a nursing home. My grandma isn’t going to run out and buy her merchandise or go to a concert. Taylor and her PR team are just too much.

Hold on.
Let me get this straight.
YOU think, that Taylor Swift’s PR team planted:pushed a story to a Russian language granny magazine. YOU think that’s why that story was there, because Taylor Swift’s people put it there?
😂

DP. No you missed the point. The PP said what they hate about Taylor is "how ubiquitous she is." It doesn't matter why Taylor is on the cover of that magazine. Probably the magazine thought it would help them sell issues, though also I'm certain Taylor's PR team seeks to get her face as many places as they can because it helps Taylor to sell tickets, and actually a big part of Taylor's marketing these days is aimed at Gen X and Boomers because they are the ones who are often buying the tickets/merchandise for their millennial and Gen Z kids, so if Taylor can also turn them into fans, it will result in more $$ for her.

But regardless of who specifically made the decision to put Taylor on that cover, the point is that OP finds the ubiquity of Taylor Swift annoying. This is a very common phenomenon and it doesn't have to be something Taylor or her team are doing on purpose for it to annoy people. It's called being "overexposed" and it's a known PR problem, and I definitely think Taylor is/has tipped into that category over the last few months due to the Travis Kelce thing. I think if she and her team are smart, they'll pull back a bit. She's touring internationally in 2024 but especially once the NFL season is over, it would probably be beneficial for her to be seen less in tabloids/celebrity news for a while. Maybe disappear for about a year and then pop back up in 2025 with a new album.

No I read it correctly. The pp thinks she’s overexposed AND thinks the shadowy cabal of Taylor Swift comms dept is pushing stories to “Babushka’s Monthly”
And that’s hysterical
Honestly this thread has uncovered a previously unfathomable Venn diagram of conspiratorial thinkers and anti Swifties.
And frankly I’m so glad I’m here for it!
It’s been a real treat!

Why do you think a Taylor Swift story was on the cover of a Russian language Senior Citizen magazine that’s only available by subscription? You can’t buy this one at the store or in the stands, so people cannot be charmed by her great beauty to buy it. Its circulation is very small and limited to mostly Jewish Russian speaking Senior Citizens living in America. (They children and grandchildren do not read these.) Most of the ads are for Russian speaking doctors, lawyers and home health attendant services. It barely makes any money. Why do you think the editor decided to put Taylor on the cover?

Well I think it obvious!
The editor secretly works for Taylor Swift!!
Oh wait wait wait!
No, but he was handed a fat unmarked envelope in the depths of a parking garage late at night. There, a mysterious tall blonde woman, sporting a bold red lip, told him exactly what to print last month in “Matronly Matryoshka Monthly”.

I admire the obtuseness of rabid Taylor fans. It’s not that the above editor works for Taylor. It’s that her team has decided to release articles about her for little to no money. If the editor of some small obscure newspaper publishes an article about her (to fill space in an ad based tiny circulation paper), he or she doesn’t have to pay the usual fees. You have to be very unaware of how the publishing industry works to not get what’s going on here.

Taylor is the definition of overexposed and it’s because her team wants it that way. The bottom line is that she never made the leap from female tweens and their moms to the general public. And her team is desperate to get her there before she hits 40 and loses the tween audience. And if that means releasing her articles for free, so be it.

It’s the wrong angle, in my opinion.

If you think she’s just for teenagers, then you’ve probably missed Taylor mania. I know lots of people in their 40s and 50s that love her.

I mentioned the moms, too. But men, even gay men are not interested.

Im a straight man and think she’s awesome.

That’s great, but you are in the minority for men.

Are you just making up numbers? I have many male friends and they all think she’s great.

No, I’m not just making it up. This is based on ticket and product sales. Men are not her audience. Black people aren’t either.

There is a very specific demographic who buys Taylor’s stuff and it’s soon to age out. (The largest contingent being 12-35 year old middle class white women.) In five or so years, ten year olds won’t be begging their parents to take them to a concert. Meanwhile, her team is trying to get men more interested (hence the mugging for the camera at NFL games) in the hope of increasing their audience before the middle age crunch happens. If she doesn’t expand into men, she’ll fade out when the tweens decide she’s too old, which is going to happen soon. It’s obvious to those of us who are ambivalent about her.

Nope, because why do the women taking their teens also love Taylor? They are middle age so when Taylor is older and these teens are now Mom’s, they will go see her. New kids on the block is still packing theaters for crying out loud

You are missing the point. Yes, the current teens/tween and SOME of their moms love Taylor, but the tweens of five years from now are not going to identify with the 40 year old mediocre singer complaining about her checkered love life. They are going to think she’s pathetic and old.

Sure, New Kids have their fans, but they are the same people who loved them 30 years ago. Tween girls aren’t lining up to go to their concerts. Their moms are dragging them to see the boy band that they loved.

Taylor’s fan base has reached its saturation point and she wants to expand it to the general public, but that isn’t happening despite best efforts because she’s just not compelling enough.

I agree Taylor’s fan base may have reached its saturation point but only because it’s massive and I’m not sure it can grow any more.

There are online groups of “Gen X Swifties” and such, so she’s compelling as you put it to an older fan base without teen daughters. They like her on their own.

I’m not sure why you think you’re such an expert on not just someone you don’t like but the future as well? Have you ever been wrong? Like, ever in your life?

The thing is she has reached her saturation point, but that’s not enough for her and her team. That is why she’s so annoying to some of us. She already has a huge fan base. Why can’t she be happy with that? Why is she forcing herself on the rest of us with her huge nonstop publicity push. It’s not going to add any fans. We would all like her better if she’d accept that this is it and cater to that crowd. Instead, she’s everywhere because she thinks we might have missed her. We haven’t. She and her team are like missionaries proselytizing to atheists about Jesus like they’ve never been exposed to Christianity before. Beyond annoying.

Way more people like her than don’t so I think you’re in the minority. Taylor can’t win. She’s just living her life going to support her boyfriend at games and you call it a publicity push. Everything she does will be considered that because she has cameras following her everywhere. You want her to just hide out and disappear but why? She goes out and it’s going to be a scene, that’s not her fault.
I just think she does amazing things with her platform as a celebrity and is apparently amazing to her fans.

The cameras follow Taylor EVERYWHERE because she tells them where she’ll be and invites them. Kinda like they followed the Kardashians. Why have they never, ever followed Meryl Streep around (even in the height of her popularity)? Because her people have never called the paparazzi to share where she’ll be eating or exercising or taking a random walk or anything.

I personally would love it if Taylor did in fact just live her life. But she doesn’t. She’s always mugging for the camera like a big old ham.

Are you this lost? She’s not an up and comer needing attention from cameras for publicity. They wait for her wherever she’s going because pics of her are worth a lot. She isn’t in the same category as kardashian

No, I’m not lost. I’m someone who used to work in entertainment and knows how these things are arranged. No one knows to show up at the random restaurant she is going to go to without her go ahead. She’s been doing this for over a decade. It’s her thing, just like it is for the Kardashians. Think of all of the very famous celebrities who go around NYC all of the time without notice. No one is following them around because they aren’t asking their publicists to arrange it.

Wake up!!!

This. She 100% drives the attention including ESPECIALLY the attention on her personal life-- romances, friendships, etc

People will point to her private behavior with Joe Alwyn but (1) he is very private, lives in the UK, and didn't want the attention, and (2) their relationship spanned Covid when there was a bit of a break from this activity.

But what we are seeing now is her return to form. Pre-Alwyn, she did this stuff constantly to sell her relationships and personal life to the press and fans. She knows it's part of her appeal and she happily participated in the circus.

Make of that what you will. Some people won't care and that's fine. And if you pay no attention to celeb news it will have no impact on you. But it's incredibly naive and blind not to understand that the attention on her is cultivated by Taylor and her team.

Seems like an easy formula to follow for wannabe starlets. Why isn’t everyone doing it with the same success?

They do! These are industry strategies. PR people arrange "pap walks" where they put the celeb in an outfit (often specific clothes or designers to attract attention), arrange for them to basically walk outside somewhere, and then call paparazzi to come photograph them. Taylor has been doing this for many years but she didn't invent it and many, many celebs do it to drive eyeballs. Actresses will do it to boost media presence generally to help them get more roles, for instance. It's very common place.

Taylor has sort of perfected a specific version, though, where she goes out with another famous person and then they arrange for paparazzi to photograph them going in or out of the restaurant. She's been doing this a lot the last few months. This is smart because it makes the photos more likely to get picked up. At this point Taylor alone would be pretty meh, but there's a market for her with Selena or Travis or even Sophie Turner (less famous but going through a very public and messy divorce, so major tabloid fodder right now). There's a publicity benefit to the people she goes out with too. They are all in on it.

All of these people could hang out or go to dinner without getting papped. Notice the photos are all at whatever restaurant they go to, not outside their homes? How would the paps know? It's because someone told them.

Taylor's been doing this so long that the fashion site Tom & Lorenzo nicknamed it her "Empty Purse Tour," because at one point she was doing pap walks daily in these super bespoke get ups with designer purses that were obviously empty, since their only purpose was to be held and seen by Taylor during a pap walk, and then she go home or get in a car and give the purse back to the PR flak who handed it to her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You never hear other artists gush about what a great musician or person Taylor is. Why do you think Taylor is not respected by her fellow peers? Even her concerts have very few celebrities in attendance compared to Harry Styles or Beyonce.

This is just living in lala land making statements to try and back up a fake argument. Are you kidding? A gazillion celebrities went to see her tour and I’ve heard countless peers of Taylor’s say how down to earth she is, so you don’t have to like her but to act like she isn’t respected by the industry is laughable. Google the celebrities that went to see her perform. The list is long

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You never hear other artists gush about what a great musician or person Taylor is. Why do you think Taylor is not respected by her fellow peers? Even her concerts have very few celebrities in attendance compared to Harry Styles or Beyonce.

This just proves you know nothing. Even my covid brain knows the opposite is true. Her songwriting has been praised by many many including the very best of songwriters: Paul McCartney, Billy Joel, Dolly Parton, Stevie Nicks, John Mayer, Ed Sheeran and on and on. Not to mention the gazillion industry and artist voted awards she’s won, a barrel full of Grammys and a gazillion other. I’m sure others can fill in with facts. I hate this thread.

Out of curiosity, I looked up what Dolly had to say about Taylor. While Dolly was very gracious, she didn’t actually have anything nice to say. Dolly said that she doesn’t follow Taylor’s music, that touring is hard, so props to Taylor for doing it, and last but not least that she (Dolly) would be just there to work on the half-time show and wouldn’t be in the crowd watching before of after. That’s hardly an example of gushing praise.

I hate this thread too, because it shows me how fanatical people can get about a middling talent.

You are just making false arguments. It’s not even an opinion, it’s false. Many celebrities and musicians adore Taylor and have talked about her amazing voice and song writing. Do a search and don’t let everything ride on Dolly

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You never hear other artists gush about what a great musician or person Taylor is. Why do you think Taylor is not respected by her fellow peers? Even her concerts have very few celebrities in attendance compared to Harry Styles or Beyonce.

This just proves you know nothing. Even my covid brain knows the opposite is true. Her songwriting has been praised by many many including the very best of songwriters: Paul McCartney, Billy Joel, Dolly Parton, Stevie Nicks, John Mayer, Ed Sheeran and on and on. Not to mention the gazillion industry and artist voted awards she’s won, a barrel full of Grammys and a gazillion other. I’m sure others can fill in with facts. I hate this thread.

Add glowing words by Dave grohl about a party where she performed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You never hear other artists gush about what a great musician or person Taylor is. Why do you think Taylor is not respected by her fellow peers? Even her concerts have very few celebrities in attendance compared to Harry Styles or Beyonce.

This is just living in lala land making statements to try and back up a fake argument. Are you kidding? A gazillion celebrities went to see her tour and I’ve heard countless peers of Taylor’s say how down to earth she is, so you don’t have to like her but to act like she isn’t respected by the industry is laughable. Google the celebrities that went to see her perform. The list is long

You’re the one living in lala land. This is called publicity and marketing. Celebrities get all sort of free things so they can advertise them to the “little people,” who upon hearing the celeb’s praise are encouraged to run out and buy the things the celeb was gifted. Don’t you think free tickets to a concert, and subsequent praise for it, are part of that scheme?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You never hear other artists gush about what a great musician or person Taylor is. Why do you think Taylor is not respected by her fellow peers? Even her concerts have very few celebrities in attendance compared to Harry Styles or Beyonce.

This just proves you know nothing. Even my covid brain knows the opposite is true. Her songwriting has been praised by many many including the very best of songwriters: Paul McCartney, Billy Joel, Dolly Parton, Stevie Nicks, John Mayer, Ed Sheeran and on and on. Not to mention the gazillion industry and artist voted awards she’s won, a barrel full of Grammys and a gazillion other. I’m sure others can fill in with facts. I hate this thread.

Add glowing words by Dave grohl about a party where she performed.

To be clear, he didn't praise her performance. He tells a story about being asked to perform at a party hosted by Paul McCartney, but he doesn't play piano and all the guitars were left handed. So Taylor offered to play the piano for him and did. It's a somewhat favorable story about Taylor but not really "praise." Grohl mostly tells this story because he likes the crazy angle of "I'm kind of high and all the guitars are left handed and then Taylor Swift played a Foo Fighters song on Paul McCartney's piano so I could sing it." Like "wow my life is nuts." Not "let me help praise on Taylor Swift."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You never hear other artists gush about what a great musician or person Taylor is. Why do you think Taylor is not respected by her fellow peers? Even her concerts have very few celebrities in attendance compared to Harry Styles or Beyonce.

This just proves you know nothing. Even my covid brain knows the opposite is true. Her songwriting has been praised by many many including the very best of songwriters: Paul McCartney, Billy Joel, Dolly Parton, Stevie Nicks, John Mayer, Ed Sheeran and on and on. Not to mention the gazillion industry and artist voted awards she’s won, a barrel full of Grammys and a gazillion other. I’m sure others can fill in with facts. I hate this thread.

Out of curiosity, I looked up what Dolly had to say about Taylor. While Dolly was very gracious, she didn’t actually have anything nice to say. Dolly said that she doesn’t follow Taylor’s music, that touring is hard, so props to Taylor for doing it, and last but not least that she (Dolly) would be just there to work on the half-time show and wouldn’t be in the crowd watching before of after. That’s hardly an example of gushing praise.

I hate this thread too, because it shows me how fanatical people can get about a middling talent.

You are just making false arguments. It’s not even an opinion, it’s false. Many celebrities and musicians adore Taylor and have talked about her amazing voice and song writing. Do a search and don’t let everything ride on Dolly

No, I’m not lying or making false arguments. You were the one who brought up Dolly’s praise for Taylor. I summarized what Dolly actually said. But here are her exact words:

1) When asked about Taylor Swift and her music.

“I honestly have to say, I work so hard, I don’t follow the young people, but I always just wish ‘em the best.”

I paraphrased that as “Dolly said she doesn’t follow Taylor’s music.”

2) When asked about touring, Dolly’s exact words were: “Touring, you know, is the way you make your money and it’s the way you make your fame….I’ll not be touring…She’s [Taylor Swift] killing it. I’ve never seen anything like it. Yay, Taylor you go!”

I paraphrased that as Dolly saying “touring is hard, so props to Taylor for doing it.”

and

3) Dolly’s exact words about the half time show: “I’m just doing the half time show. The camera will not be going back and forth me during the game. So, hopefully, I won’t be distracting. I can’t say anything bad about Taylor. ”

I paraphrased this by saying “she (Dolly) would be just there to work on the half-time show and wouldn’t be in the crowd watching before of after.

What exactly did I lie about? You’re the one stretching the truth about Dolly’s praise for Taylor’s song writing. Nowhere did she praise her music. Nowhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know what I hate about Taylor? How ubiquitous she is. She was on the cover of my grandmother’s Russian language senior citizen newspaper. Why or why? Nobody who reads that has ever heard of Taylor and they are not interested in her music. The only reason I saw it was because I was visiting my grandma in a nursing home. My grandma isn’t going to run out and buy her merchandise or go to a concert. Taylor and her PR team are just too much.

Hold on.
Let me get this straight.
YOU think, that Taylor Swift’s PR team planted:pushed a story to a Russian language granny magazine. YOU think that’s why that story was there, because Taylor Swift’s people put it there?
😂

DP. No you missed the point. The PP said what they hate about Taylor is "how ubiquitous she is." It doesn't matter why Taylor is on the cover of that magazine. Probably the magazine thought it would help them sell issues, though also I'm certain Taylor's PR team seeks to get her face as many places as they can because it helps Taylor to sell tickets, and actually a big part of Taylor's marketing these days is aimed at Gen X and Boomers because they are the ones who are often buying the tickets/merchandise for their millennial and Gen Z kids, so if Taylor can also turn them into fans, it will result in more $$ for her.

But regardless of who specifically made the decision to put Taylor on that cover, the point is that OP finds the ubiquity of Taylor Swift annoying. This is a very common phenomenon and it doesn't have to be something Taylor or her team are doing on purpose for it to annoy people. It's called being "overexposed" and it's a known PR problem, and I definitely think Taylor is/has tipped into that category over the last few months due to the Travis Kelce thing. I think if she and her team are smart, they'll pull back a bit. She's touring internationally in 2024 but especially once the NFL season is over, it would probably be beneficial for her to be seen less in tabloids/celebrity news for a while. Maybe disappear for about a year and then pop back up in 2025 with a new album.

No I read it correctly. The pp thinks she’s overexposed AND thinks the shadowy cabal of Taylor Swift comms dept is pushing stories to “Babushka’s Monthly”
And that’s hysterical
Honestly this thread has uncovered a previously unfathomable Venn diagram of conspiratorial thinkers and anti Swifties.
And frankly I’m so glad I’m here for it!
It’s been a real treat!

Why do you think a Taylor Swift story was on the cover of a Russian language Senior Citizen magazine that’s only available by subscription? You can’t buy this one at the store or in the stands, so people cannot be charmed by her great beauty to buy it. Its circulation is very small and limited to mostly Jewish Russian speaking Senior Citizens living in America. (They children and grandchildren do not read these.) Most of the ads are for Russian speaking doctors, lawyers and home health attendant services. It barely makes any money. Why do you think the editor decided to put Taylor on the cover?

Well I think it obvious!
The editor secretly works for Taylor Swift!!
Oh wait wait wait!
No, but he was handed a fat unmarked envelope in the depths of a parking garage late at night. There, a mysterious tall blonde woman, sporting a bold red lip, told him exactly what to print last month in “Matronly Matryoshka Monthly”.

I admire the obtuseness of rabid Taylor fans. It’s not that the above editor works for Taylor. It’s that her team has decided to release articles about her for little to no money. If the editor of some small obscure newspaper publishes an article about her (to fill space in an ad based tiny circulation paper), he or she doesn’t have to pay the usual fees. You have to be very unaware of how the publishing industry works to not get what’s going on here.

Taylor is the definition of overexposed and it’s because her team wants it that way. The bottom line is that she never made the leap from female tweens and their moms to the general public. And her team is desperate to get her there before she hits 40 and loses the tween audience. And if that means releasing her articles for free, so be it.

It’s the wrong angle, in my opinion.

If you think she’s just for teenagers, then you’ve probably missed Taylor mania. I know lots of people in their 40s and 50s that love her.

I mentioned the moms, too. But men, even gay men are not interested.

Im a straight man and think she’s awesome.

That’s great, but you are in the minority for men.

Are you just making up numbers? I have many male friends and they all think she’s great.

No, I’m not just making it up. This is based on ticket and product sales. Men are not her audience. Black people aren’t either.

There is a very specific demographic who buys Taylor’s stuff and it’s soon to age out. (The largest contingent being 12-35 year old middle class white women.) In five or so years, ten year olds won’t be begging their parents to take them to a concert. Meanwhile, her team is trying to get men more interested (hence the mugging for the camera at NFL games) in the hope of increasing their audience before the middle age crunch happens. If she doesn’t expand into men, she’ll fade out when the tweens decide she’s too old, which is going to happen soon. It’s obvious to those of us who are ambivalent about her.

Nope, because why do the women taking their teens also love Taylor? They are middle age so when Taylor is older and these teens are now Mom’s, they will go see her. New kids on the block is still packing theaters for crying out loud

You are missing the point. Yes, the current teens/tween and SOME of their moms love Taylor, but the tweens of five years from now are not going to identify with the 40 year old mediocre singer complaining about her checkered love life. They are going to think she’s pathetic and old.

Sure, New Kids have their fans, but they are the same people who loved them 30 years ago. Tween girls aren’t lining up to go to their concerts. Their moms are dragging them to see the boy band that they loved.

Taylor’s fan base has reached its saturation point and she wants to expand it to the general public, but that isn’t happening despite best efforts because she’s just not compelling enough.

I agree Taylor’s fan base may have reached its saturation point but only because it’s massive and I’m not sure it can grow any more.

There are online groups of “Gen X Swifties” and such, so she’s compelling as you put it to an older fan base without teen daughters. They like her on their own.

I’m not sure why you think you’re such an expert on not just someone you don’t like but the future as well? Have you ever been wrong? Like, ever in your life?

The thing is she has reached her saturation point, but that’s not enough for her and her team. That is why she’s so annoying to some of us. She already has a huge fan base. Why can’t she be happy with that? Why is she forcing herself on the rest of us with her huge nonstop publicity push. It’s not going to add any fans. We would all like her better if she’d accept that this is it and cater to that crowd. Instead, she’s everywhere because she thinks we might have missed her. We haven’t. She and her team are like missionaries proselytizing to atheists about Jesus like they’ve never been exposed to Christianity before. Beyond annoying.

Way more people like her than don’t so I think you’re in the minority. Taylor can’t win. She’s just living her life going to support her boyfriend at games and you call it a publicity push. Everything she does will be considered that because she has cameras following her everywhere. You want her to just hide out and disappear but why? She goes out and it’s going to be a scene, that’s not her fault.
I just think she does amazing things with her platform as a celebrity and is apparently amazing to her fans.

The cameras follow Taylor EVERYWHERE because she tells them where she’ll be and invites them. Kinda like they followed the Kardashians. Why have they never, ever followed Meryl Streep around (even in the height of her popularity)? Because her people have never called the paparazzi to share where she’ll be eating or exercising or taking a random walk or anything.

I personally would love it if Taylor did in fact just live her life. But she doesn’t. She’s always mugging for the camera like a big old ham.

Are you this lost? She’s not an up and comer needing attention from cameras for publicity. They wait for her wherever she’s going because pics of her are worth a lot. She isn’t in the same category as kardashian

No, I’m not lost. I’m someone who used to work in entertainment and knows how these things are arranged. No one knows to show up at the random restaurant she is going to go to without her go ahead. She’s been doing this for over a decade. It’s her thing, just like it is for the Kardashians. Think of all of the very famous celebrities who go around NYC all of the time without notice. No one is following them around because they aren’t asking their publicists to arrange it.

Wake up!!!

This. She 100% drives the attention including ESPECIALLY the attention on her personal life-- romances, friendships, etc

People will point to her private behavior with Joe Alwyn but (1) he is very private, lives in the UK, and didn't want the attention, and (2) their relationship spanned Covid when there was a bit of a break from this activity.

But what we are seeing now is her return to form. Pre-Alwyn, she did this stuff constantly to sell her relationships and personal life to the press and fans. She knows it's part of her appeal and she happily participated in the circus.

Make of that what you will. Some people won't care and that's fine. And if you pay no attention to celeb news it will have no impact on you. But it's incredibly naive and blind not to understand that the attention on her is cultivated by Taylor and her team.

Seems like an easy formula to follow for wannabe starlets. Why isn’t everyone doing it with the same success?

They do! These are industry strategies. PR people arrange "pap walks" where they put the celeb in an outfit (often specific clothes or designers to attract attention), arrange for them to basically walk outside somewhere, and then call paparazzi to come photograph them. Taylor has been doing this for many years but she didn't invent it and many, many celebs do it to drive eyeballs. Actresses will do it to boost media presence generally to help them get more roles, for instance. It's very common place.

Taylor has sort of perfected a specific version, though, where she goes out with another famous person and then they arrange for paparazzi to photograph them going in or out of the restaurant. She's been doing this a lot the last few months. This is smart because it makes the photos more likely to get picked up. At this point Taylor alone would be pretty meh, but there's a market for her with Selena or Travis or even Sophie Turner (less famous but going through a very public and messy divorce, so major tabloid fodder right now). There's a publicity benefit to the people she goes out with too. They are all in on it.

All of these people could hang out or go to dinner without getting papped. Notice the photos are all at whatever restaurant they go to, not outside their homes? How would the paps know? It's because someone told them.

Taylor's been doing this so long that the fashion site Tom & Lorenzo nicknamed it her "Empty Purse Tour," because at one point she was doing pap walks daily in these super bespoke get ups with designer purses that were obviously empty, since their only purpose was to be held and seen by Taylor during a pap walk, and then she go home or get in a car and give the purse back to the PR flak who handed it to her.

Yet with far less success. Taylor has something the rest don’t. Otherwise she would have been knocked down by now. Kind of like how you’re trying and failing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You never hear other artists gush about what a great musician or person Taylor is. Why do you think Taylor is not respected by her fellow peers? Even her concerts have very few celebrities in attendance compared to Harry Styles or Beyonce.

This just proves you know nothing. Even my covid brain knows the opposite is true. Her songwriting has been praised by many many including the very best of songwriters: Paul McCartney, Billy Joel, Dolly Parton, Stevie Nicks, John Mayer, Ed Sheeran and on and on. Not to mention the gazillion industry and artist voted awards she’s won, a barrel full of Grammys and a gazillion other. I’m sure others can fill in with facts. I hate this thread.

Out of curiosity, I looked up what Dolly had to say about Taylor. While Dolly was very gracious, she didn’t actually have anything nice to say. Dolly said that she doesn’t follow Taylor’s music, that touring is hard, so props to Taylor for doing it, and last but not least that she (Dolly) would be just there to work on the half-time show and wouldn’t be in the crowd watching before of after. That’s hardly an example of gushing praise.

I hate this thread too, because it shows me how fanatical people can get about a middling talent.

Dolly: “Taylor, she’s a great writer”

See, multiple sources (apparently not the one you chose to “look up”).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know what I hate about Taylor? How ubiquitous she is. She was on the cover of my grandmother’s Russian language senior citizen newspaper. Why or why? Nobody who reads that has ever heard of Taylor and they are not interested in her music. The only reason I saw it was because I was visiting my grandma in a nursing home. My grandma isn’t going to run out and buy her merchandise or go to a concert. Taylor and her PR team are just too much.

Hold on.
Let me get this straight.
YOU think, that Taylor Swift’s PR team planted:pushed a story to a Russian language granny magazine. YOU think that’s why that story was there, because Taylor Swift’s people put it there?
😂

DP. No you missed the point. The PP said what they hate about Taylor is "how ubiquitous she is." It doesn't matter why Taylor is on the cover of that magazine. Probably the magazine thought it would help them sell issues, though also I'm certain Taylor's PR team seeks to get her face as many places as they can because it helps Taylor to sell tickets, and actually a big part of Taylor's marketing these days is aimed at Gen X and Boomers because they are the ones who are often buying the tickets/merchandise for their millennial and Gen Z kids, so if Taylor can also turn them into fans, it will result in more $$ for her.

But regardless of who specifically made the decision to put Taylor on that cover, the point is that OP finds the ubiquity of Taylor Swift annoying. This is a very common phenomenon and it doesn't have to be something Taylor or her team are doing on purpose for it to annoy people. It's called being "overexposed" and it's a known PR problem, and I definitely think Taylor is/has tipped into that category over the last few months due to the Travis Kelce thing. I think if she and her team are smart, they'll pull back a bit. She's touring internationally in 2024 but especially once the NFL season is over, it would probably be beneficial for her to be seen less in tabloids/celebrity news for a while. Maybe disappear for about a year and then pop back up in 2025 with a new album.

No I read it correctly. The pp thinks she’s overexposed AND thinks the shadowy cabal of Taylor Swift comms dept is pushing stories to “Babushka’s Monthly”
And that’s hysterical
Honestly this thread has uncovered a previously unfathomable Venn diagram of conspiratorial thinkers and anti Swifties.
And frankly I’m so glad I’m here for it!
It’s been a real treat!

Why do you think a Taylor Swift story was on the cover of a Russian language Senior Citizen magazine that’s only available by subscription? You can’t buy this one at the store or in the stands, so people cannot be charmed by her great beauty to buy it. Its circulation is very small and limited to mostly Jewish Russian speaking Senior Citizens living in America. (They children and grandchildren do not read these.) Most of the ads are for Russian speaking doctors, lawyers and home health attendant services. It barely makes any money. Why do you think the editor decided to put Taylor on the cover?

Well I think it obvious!
The editor secretly works for Taylor Swift!!
Oh wait wait wait!
No, but he was handed a fat unmarked envelope in the depths of a parking garage late at night. There, a mysterious tall blonde woman, sporting a bold red lip, told him exactly what to print last month in “Matronly Matryoshka Monthly”.

I admire the obtuseness of rabid Taylor fans. It’s not that the above editor works for Taylor. It’s that her team has decided to release articles about her for little to no money. If the editor of some small obscure newspaper publishes an article about her (to fill space in an ad based tiny circulation paper), he or she doesn’t have to pay the usual fees. You have to be very unaware of how the publishing industry works to not get what’s going on here.

Taylor is the definition of overexposed and it’s because her team wants it that way. The bottom line is that she never made the leap from female tweens and their moms to the general public. And her team is desperate to get her there before she hits 40 and loses the tween audience. And if that means releasing her articles for free, so be it.

It’s the wrong angle, in my opinion.

If you think she’s just for teenagers, then you’ve probably missed Taylor mania. I know lots of people in their 40s and 50s that love her.

I mentioned the moms, too. But men, even gay men are not interested.

Im a straight man and think she’s awesome.

That’s great, but you are in the minority for men.

Are you just making up numbers? I have many male friends and they all think she’s great.

No, I’m not just making it up. This is based on ticket and product sales. Men are not her audience. Black people aren’t either.

There is a very specific demographic who buys Taylor’s stuff and it’s soon to age out. (The largest contingent being 12-35 year old middle class white women.) In five or so years, ten year olds won’t be begging their parents to take them to a concert. Meanwhile, her team is trying to get men more interested (hence the mugging for the camera at NFL games) in the hope of increasing their audience before the middle age crunch happens. If she doesn’t expand into men, she’ll fade out when the tweens decide she’s too old, which is going to happen soon. It’s obvious to those of us who are ambivalent about her.

Nope, because why do the women taking their teens also love Taylor? They are middle age so when Taylor is older and these teens are now Mom’s, they will go see her. New kids on the block is still packing theaters for crying out loud

You are missing the point. Yes, the current teens/tween and SOME of their moms love Taylor, but the tweens of five years from now are not going to identify with the 40 year old mediocre singer complaining about her checkered love life. They are going to think she’s pathetic and old.

Sure, New Kids have their fans, but they are the same people who loved them 30 years ago. Tween girls aren’t lining up to go to their concerts. Their moms are dragging them to see the boy band that they loved.

Taylor’s fan base has reached its saturation point and she wants to expand it to the general public, but that isn’t happening despite best efforts because she’s just not compelling enough.

I agree Taylor’s fan base may have reached its saturation point but only because it’s massive and I’m not sure it can grow any more.

There are online groups of “Gen X Swifties” and such, so she’s compelling as you put it to an older fan base without teen daughters. They like her on their own.

I’m not sure why you think you’re such an expert on not just someone you don’t like but the future as well? Have you ever been wrong? Like, ever in your life?

The thing is she has reached her saturation point, but that’s not enough for her and her team. That is why she’s so annoying to some of us. She already has a huge fan base. Why can’t she be happy with that? Why is she forcing herself on the rest of us with her huge nonstop publicity push. It’s not going to add any fans. We would all like her better if she’d accept that this is it and cater to that crowd. Instead, she’s everywhere because she thinks we might have missed her. We haven’t. She and her team are like missionaries proselytizing to atheists about Jesus like they’ve never been exposed to Christianity before. Beyond annoying.

Way more people like her than don’t so I think you’re in the minority. Taylor can’t win. She’s just living her life going to support her boyfriend at games and you call it a publicity push. Everything she does will be considered that because she has cameras following her everywhere. You want her to just hide out and disappear but why? She goes out and it’s going to be a scene, that’s not her fault.
I just think she does amazing things with her platform as a celebrity and is apparently amazing to her fans.

The cameras follow Taylor EVERYWHERE because she tells them where she’ll be and invites them. Kinda like they followed the Kardashians. Why have they never, ever followed Meryl Streep around (even in the height of her popularity)? Because her people have never called the paparazzi to share where she’ll be eating or exercising or taking a random walk or anything.

I personally would love it if Taylor did in fact just live her life. But she doesn’t. She’s always mugging for the camera like a big old ham.

Are you this lost? She’s not an up and comer needing attention from cameras for publicity. They wait for her wherever she’s going because pics of her are worth a lot. She isn’t in the same category as kardashian

No, I’m not lost. I’m someone who used to work in entertainment and knows how these things are arranged. No one knows to show up at the random restaurant she is going to go to without her go ahead. She’s been doing this for over a decade. It’s her thing, just like it is for the Kardashians. Think of all of the very famous celebrities who go around NYC all of the time without notice. No one is following them around because they aren’t asking their publicists to arrange it.

Wake up!!!

This. She 100% drives the attention including ESPECIALLY the attention on her personal life-- romances, friendships, etc

People will point to her private behavior with Joe Alwyn but (1) he is very private, lives in the UK, and didn't want the attention, and (2) their relationship spanned Covid when there was a bit of a break from this activity.

But what we are seeing now is her return to form. Pre-Alwyn, she did this stuff constantly to sell her relationships and personal life to the press and fans. She knows it's part of her appeal and she happily participated in the circus.

Make of that what you will. Some people won't care and that's fine. And if you pay no attention to celeb news it will have no impact on you. But it's incredibly naive and blind not to understand that the attention on her is cultivated by Taylor and her team.

Seems like an easy formula to follow for wannabe starlets. Why isn’t everyone doing it with the same success?

They do! These are industry strategies. PR people arrange "pap walks" where they put the celeb in an outfit (often specific clothes or designers to attract attention), arrange for them to basically walk outside somewhere, and then call paparazzi to come photograph them. Taylor has been doing this for many years but she didn't invent it and many, many celebs do it to drive eyeballs. Actresses will do it to boost media presence generally to help them get more roles, for instance. It's very common place.

Taylor has sort of perfected a specific version, though, where she goes out with another famous person and then they arrange for paparazzi to photograph them going in or out of the restaurant. She's been doing this a lot the last few months. This is smart because it makes the photos more likely to get picked up. At this point Taylor alone would be pretty meh, but there's a market for her with Selena or Travis or even Sophie Turner (less famous but going through a very public and messy divorce, so major tabloid fodder right now). There's a publicity benefit to the people she goes out with too. They are all in on it.

All of these people could hang out or go to dinner without getting papped. Notice the photos are all at whatever restaurant they go to, not outside their homes? How would the paps know? It's because someone told them.

Taylor's been doing this so long that the fashion site Tom & Lorenzo nicknamed it her "Empty Purse Tour," because at one point she was doing pap walks daily in these super bespoke get ups with designer purses that were obviously empty, since their only purpose was to be held and seen by Taylor during a pap walk, and then she go home or get in a car and give the purse back to the PR flak who handed it to her.

Yet with far less success. Taylor has something the rest don’t. Otherwise she would have been knocked down by now. Kind of like how you’re trying and failing.

No, with equal success. I'm sorry you don't understand how celebrity PR works? A lot of celebs utilize these strategies and it "works" in that it gets their name in the press. Taylor is no different. She's not uniquely good at it and actually, it's less about her personally than her PR team, who likely reps many of the people she's photographed with.

If you want to know who is best at this game, the hands down queen is Kim K. Tho I'm not sure being amazing at getting yourself papped is bragworthy? It is, apparently, profitable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You never hear other artists gush about what a great musician or person Taylor is. Why do you think Taylor is not respected by her fellow peers? Even her concerts have very few celebrities in attendance compared to Harry Styles or Beyonce.

This just proves you know nothing. Even my covid brain knows the opposite is true. Her songwriting has been praised by many many including the very best of songwriters: Paul McCartney, Billy Joel, Dolly Parton, Stevie Nicks, John Mayer, Ed Sheeran and on and on. Not to mention the gazillion industry and artist voted awards she’s won, a barrel full of Grammys and a gazillion other. I’m sure others can fill in with facts. I hate this thread.

Out of curiosity, I looked up what Dolly had to say about Taylor. While Dolly was very gracious, she didn’t actually have anything nice to say. Dolly said that she doesn’t follow Taylor’s music, that touring is hard, so props to Taylor for doing it, and last but not least that she (Dolly) would be just there to work on the half-time show and wouldn’t be in the crowd watching before of after. That’s hardly an example of gushing praise.

I hate this thread too, because it shows me how fanatical people can get about a middling talent.

Dolly: “Taylor, she’s a great writer”

See, multiple sources (apparently not the one you chose to “look up”).

DP, but how can Dolly assess Swift's songwriting when she JUST said she doesn't follow her music?