UVA student missing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a PP who was previously arguing that I could understand JM running given the treatment if black men by police in this country.

I have read the timeline and speculation about JM being a serial killer linked 2 pages ago and I have to say it is pretty chilling. The three things that really got me were his weirdly predatory, aggressive and overly physical behavior that night, the fact that his "friend" described him as someone who looked for girls whose defenses were already impaired to give him a better chance with them, and the description of the door girl at Tempo that he left with Hannah and seemed to be holding her up. I do now think that JM was involved in her disappearance and possible murder. I can still understand why an innocent black man might flee police, and JM is innocent til proven otherwise, but his actions that night do not reflect "kindhearted" and "gentle soul" story we were hearing from his grandmother and seem consistent with those if a sexual predator or worse.

Oh the horror and dread her parents must be feeling now. I feel so awful for them.

I am confused over why, in such a high profile case, JT's lawyer is saying he will hopefully meet with JT soon when he is returned to VA and isn't going down to TX to talk to him. I also would hate to be that lawyer right now. It seems to me like, if JT did commit murder and dump the body, that legally it is in his best interests for the body never to be found so that murder cannot be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. So as the lawyer you may not want to advise your client to tell, even if they offer your client a deal, because no body is still probably a better case than any murder deal. But as a HUMAN BEING you want your client to tell. It's a terrible position to be in. If there are any criminal defense attorneys who can speak to this I would be really interested.

Realize that JM's grandma only saw certain sides of JM. She may even have been unaware of everything in JM's past. Time and time again this guy had some serious charges dropped..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a PP who was previously arguing that I could understand JM running given the treatment if black men by police in this country.

I have read the timeline and speculation about JM being a serial killer linked 2 pages ago and I have to say it is pretty chilling. The three things that really got me were his weirdly predatory, aggressive and overly physical behavior that night, the fact that his "friend" described him as someone who looked for girls whose defenses were already impaired to give him a better chance with them, and the description of the door girl at Tempo that he left with Hannah and seemed to be holding her up. I do now think that JM was involved in her disappearance and possible murder. I can still understand why an innocent black man might flee police, and JM is innocent til proven otherwise, but his actions that night do not reflect "kindhearted" and "gentle soul" story we were hearing from his grandmother and seem consistent with those if a sexual predator or worse.

Oh the horror and dread her parents must be feeling now. I feel so awful for them.

I am confused over why, in such a high profile case, JT's lawyer is saying he will hopefully meet with JT soon when he is returned to VA and isn't going down to TX to talk to him. I also would hate to be that lawyer right now. It seems to me like, if JT did commit murder and dump the body, that legally it is in his best interests for the body never to be found so that murder cannot be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. So as the lawyer you may not want to advise your client to tell, even if they offer your client a deal, because no body is still probably a better case than any murder deal. But as a HUMAN BEING you want your client to tell. It's a terrible position to be in. If there are any criminal defense attorneys who can speak to this I would be really interested.

I was thinking the same thing. The worst he can be convicted of right now is abduction with attempt to defile. If he plea bargains by telling them where the body is, then it becomes a murder charge, which is going to be a more severe sentence than abduction. I'm hoping and praying they find her body.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a PP who was previously arguing that I could understand JM running given the treatment if black men by police in this country.

I have read the timeline and speculation about JM being a serial killer linked 2 pages ago and I have to say it is pretty chilling. The three things that really got me were his weirdly predatory, aggressive and overly physical behavior that night, the fact that his "friend" described him as someone who looked for girls whose defenses were already impaired to give him a better chance with them, and the description of the door girl at Tempo that he left with Hannah and seemed to be holding her up. I do now think that JM was involved in her disappearance and possible murder. I can still understand why an innocent black man might flee police, and JM is innocent til proven otherwise, but his actions that night do not reflect "kindhearted" and "gentle soul" story we were hearing from his grandmother and seem consistent with those if a sexual predator or worse.

Oh the horror and dread her parents must be feeling now. I feel so awful for them.

I am confused over why, in such a high profile case, JT's lawyer is saying he will hopefully meet with JT soon when he is returned to VA and isn't going down to TX to talk to him. I also would hate to be that lawyer right now. It seems to me like, if JT did commit murder and dump the body, that legally it is in his best interests for the body never to be found so that murder cannot be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. So as the lawyer you may not want to advise your client to tell, even if they offer your client a deal, because no body is still probably a better case than any murder deal. But as a HUMAN BEING you want your client to tell. It's a terrible position to be in. If there are any criminal defense attorneys who can speak to this I would be really interested.

They will only give up a dead body if it is part of a deal... for example to escape the death penalty. Otherwise, they will never say where the body is and have no legal obligation to do so.

Really public defenders and criminal defense attorneys are HUMAN BEINGS, they have a job to do, not everybody has the stomach for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a PP who was previously arguing that I could understand JM running given the treatment if black men by police in this country.

I have read the timeline and speculation about JM being a serial killer linked 2 pages ago and I have to say it is pretty chilling. The three things that really got me were his weirdly predatory, aggressive and overly physical behavior that night, the fact that his "friend" described him as someone who looked for girls whose defenses were already impaired to give him a better chance with them, and the description of the door girl at Tempo that he left with Hannah and seemed to be holding her up. I do now think that JM was involved in her disappearance and possible murder. I can still understand why an innocent black man might flee police, and JM is innocent til proven otherwise, but his actions that night do not reflect "kindhearted" and "gentle soul" story we were hearing from his grandmother and seem consistent with those if a sexual predator or worse.

Oh the horror and dread her parents must be feeling now. I feel so awful for them.

I am confused over why, in such a high profile case, JT's lawyer is saying he will hopefully meet with JT soon when he is returned to VA and isn't going down to TX to talk to him. I also would hate to be that lawyer right now. It seems to me like, if JT did commit murder and dump the body, that legally it is in his best interests for the body never to be found so that murder cannot be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. So as the lawyer you may not want to advise your client to tell, even if they offer your client a deal, because no body is still probably a better case than any murder deal. But as a HUMAN BEING you want your client to tell. It's a terrible position to be in. If there are any criminal defense attorneys who can speak to this I would be really interested.

I was thinking the same thing. The worst he can be convicted of right now is abduction with attempt to defile. If he plea bargains by telling them where the body is, then it becomes a murder charge, which is going to be a more severe sentence than abduction. I'm hoping and praying they find her body.

You don't know evidence they have and while it is harder you can get a murder conviction without a body.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I posted in the other thread as well: this timeline article makes JM sound like he may be on the spectrum.
Truly: what 30+ man doesn't know to keep his hands to himself in a bar, late at night with women?
The article paints him as very odd.

WHAT? As the mother of a child with an ASD, I'm really offended by this. My DC is a teen and knows not to behave this way. Sexual aggressiveness is not a spectrum trait. of course its possible for someone with an ASD to behave this or any other way, but this alone is far, far from enough to say he has an ASD.

Please, have you never encountered drunken grabby men before? Its sadly not that odd. Yes, it sounds like he was on a tear. But there were men just like him in bars all over the country that Saturday night.

Totally disagree. "Drunken grabby men" may not be rare, but they aren't normal - they are defective.

BTW this isn't about your DC , spectrum refers to a range and plainly doesn't mean that all are the same.

I never said it was normal, of course its not normal. My point was that it has nothing to do with ASDs, you are simply wrong. My DS has an ASD and two siblings do as well, I live in this world. Sexual aggression is not a criteria. There is absolutely nothing in any article I've read to indicate this guy had an ASD. really ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I posted in the other thread as well: this timeline article makes JM sound like he may be on the spectrum.
Truly: what 30+ man doesn't know to keep his hands to himself in a bar, late at night with women?
The article paints him as very odd.

WHAT? As the mother of a child with an ASD, I'm really offended by this. My DC is a teen and knows not to behave this way. Sexual aggressiveness is not a spectrum trait. of course its possible for someone with an ASD to behave this or any other way, but this alone is far, far from enough to say he has an ASD.

Please, have you never encountered drunken grabby men before? Its sadly not that odd. Yes, it sounds like he was on a tear. But there were men just like him in bars all over the country that Saturday night.

Totally disagree. "Drunken grabby men" may not be rare, but they aren't normal - they are defective.

BTW this isn't about your DC , spectrum refers to a range and plainly doesn't mean that all are the same.

IMO, part of the reason some men behave that way is because they were not taught to treat women with respect. They see women as simply a play thing to use and throw away. I'm sure there some mentally ill people out there that do this, but for the most part behavior is taught. Just look across the globe and the difference between cultures- in Egypt for instance, grabby men are the norm. Are they all mentally ill? Doubtful. Conversely in a country like Japan, this behavior is not tolerated.

An ASD is not a mental illness! Its a developmental disability, that is NOT the same thing. The ignorance on this thread is shocking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a PP who was previously arguing that I could understand JM running given the treatment if black men by police in this country.

I have read the timeline and speculation about JM being a serial killer linked 2 pages ago and I have to say it is pretty chilling. The three things that really got me were his weirdly predatory, aggressive and overly physical behavior that night, the fact that his "friend" described him as someone who looked for girls whose defenses were already impaired to give him a better chance with them, and the description of the door girl at Tempo that he left with Hannah and seemed to be holding her up. I do now think that JM was involved in her disappearance and possible murder. I can still understand why an innocent black man might flee police, and JM is innocent til proven otherwise, but his actions that night do not reflect "kindhearted" and "gentle soul" story we were hearing from his grandmother and seem consistent with those if a sexual predator or worse.

Oh the horror and dread her parents must be feeling now. I feel so awful for them.

I am confused over why, in such a high profile case, JT's lawyer is saying he will hopefully meet with JT soon when he is returned to VA and isn't going down to TX to talk to him. I also would hate to be that lawyer right now. It seems to me like, if JT did commit murder and dump the body, that legally it is in his best interests for the body never to be found so that murder cannot be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. So as the lawyer you may not want to advise your client to tell, even if they offer your client a deal, because no body is still probably a better case than any murder deal. But as a HUMAN BEING you want your client to tell. It's a terrible position to be in. If there are any criminal defense attorneys who can speak to this I would be really interested.

He would have a lawyer appointed in Texas for the proceedings there. A VA lawyer generally can't represent someone in Texas court.

[Anonymous]

Okay, first of all JM has refused court appointed counsel in TX.

But even if he hadn't, wouldn't his VA counsel want to confer with TX counsel to make sure that counsel wasn't screwing anything up for VA case? That's what we'd do in a corporate case when the matters were related. And if client didn't have counsel for related matter in another state we'd surely head out there.

I also recognize that it's possible to get a murder conviction without a body, but it's much harder to do, whereas if you tell them where the body is in exchange for a deal, you are almost definitely going to be looking at a murder conviction. So does the criminal defense attorney in this position need to advise client not to tell? Because that seems like it could be pretty difficult to live with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I posted in the other thread as well: this timeline article makes JM sound like he may be on the spectrum.
Truly: what 30+ man doesn't know to keep his hands to himself in a bar, late at night with women?
The article paints him as very odd.

WHAT? As the mother of a child with an ASD, I'm really offended by this. My DC is a teen and knows not to behave this way. Sexual aggressiveness is not a spectrum trait. of course its possible for someone with an ASD to behave this or any other way, but this alone is far, far from enough to say he has an ASD.

Please, have you never encountered drunken grabby men before? Its sadly not that odd. Yes, it sounds like he was on a tear. But there were men just like him in bars all over the country that Saturday night.

Totally disagree. "Drunken grabby men" may not be rare, but they aren't normal - they are defective.

BTW this isn't about your DC , spectrum refers to a range and plainly doesn't mean that all are the same.

You are an idiot. Educate yourself before you make asinine remarks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is a classic DCUM thread. Little logic and very little attention paid to some of the more intelligent, insightful posts.

+1

Just a lot of mindless blathering and people who are clueless about how the legal system works. Some of the theories offered are utterly moronic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Okay, first of all JM has refused court appointed counsel in TX.

But even if he hadn't, wouldn't his VA counsel want to confer with TX counsel to make sure that counsel wasn't screwing anything up for VA case? That's what we'd do in a corporate case when the matters were related. And if client didn't have counsel for related matter in another state we'd surely head out there.

I also recognize that it's possible to get a murder conviction without a body, but it's much harder to do, whereas if you tell them where the body is in exchange for a deal, you are almost definitely going to be looking at a murder conviction. So does the criminal defense attorney in this position need to advise client not to tell? Because that seems like it could be pretty difficult to live with.

If the prosecutor does NOT have physical evidence for a murder conviction they will NEVER, EVER, EVER tell where the body is.


If the prosecutor DOES have physical evidence for a murder conviction they will tell where the body is to avoid the death penalty, only if it is a death penalty case.

YES the criminal defense attorney will advise his client to NOT TELL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Okay, first of all JM has refused court appointed counsel in TX.

But even if he hadn't, wouldn't his VA counsel want to confer with TX counsel to make sure that counsel wasn't screwing anything up for VA case? That's what we'd do in a corporate case when the matters were related. And if client didn't have counsel for related matter in another state we'd surely head out there.

I also recognize that it's possible to get a murder conviction without a body, but it's much harder to do, whereas if you tell them where the body is in exchange for a deal, you are almost definitely going to be looking at a murder conviction. So does the criminal defense attorney in this position need to advise client not to tell? Because that seems like it could be pretty difficult to live with.

Of course they will confer but the VA lawyer can't appear in the TX court except under unusual circumstances. Extradition cases happen all the time. The TX cops are not going to interrogate JM because its not their case, they aren't on top of the evidence and they could really screw it up. For example, they could elicit statements that would be not be admissible and would lead to the exclusion of other, important, evidence. If this was a federal offense it would be different because the FBI is the FBI everywhere. But there's no way VA prosecutors are handing this over to TX cops they don't know, who don't know the case like they do.

The starting point for JM's lawyer is not to talk. If down the road they decide the evidence is likely to produce a conviction he could talk as part of a plea deal, such as to avoid the death penalty. If they tie him to other murders or if they find her body, I doubt there would be any kind of plea deal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:http://insidecville.com/blog/ljs-timeline/

Not the PP, but some context is needed. Coy Barefoot has been the best source of information on this case by far. This post is about what LJ was doing in the hours before he left the restAurant with Hannah.

The suspect's timeline is disturbing.

[Anonymous]

If they had DNA evidence that tied him to other murders or rapes, would they have announced that already?

[Anonymous]

The hamstring thing suggests he didn't have a sense of other people's strength/vulnerability. If he overwhelmed her without intent to harm her, that would explain why he went to the police. And the lawyer told him it would be hard to defend, and thus he bolted. My theory.