2022 Olympics

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:A must watch.

I feel like this is hypocritical. Young retirement is common in skating. Oksana, Tara and Sarah all left in their teens. The fact is that few Olympic champions stay around. The motivation after the big O just isn't there. Really, the only hook of the story is the "lack of variety in their nationality", the fact that all these girls are Russian and come from the same coach. It would be better if they analyzed the last two Olympic pools and came up with the average age of a woman skater competing at the Olympics. Or worlds. Then you'll see if the world is getting younger, if skaters are retiring sooner, or if it's just Eteri.

Ok but it's pretty well known that Eteri's skaters come with an expiration date- most of her skaters are retiring seem to be retiring due to injury or inability to keep up with the younger skaters. Until yesterday only Zagitova had won an OGM.

The bolded is the reason why the majority of skaters retire. It's not Eteri's problem.

I don't quite understand your Zagitova comment.

Wasn't Adelina Sotnikova hers?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
But that's her point- they aren't getting deductions and the component scores seem to rise exactly the year they debut the newest model, then fall afterwards. And she's clear at the end that its not Eteri's problem -- its that Eteri is exploiting a sport that already allows it to happen. She likens it to the Karolyis, which I think is fitting. The amount of injuries and eating disorders looks a lot like the Karyoli era here. She also credits the fact that skating is hugely popular is Russia and that millions of girls participate in lessons, so they certainly have a giant pool of talent to work with.

The problem basically rolls up to the ISU and how it chooses to reward skaters on the ice.

Judges are human. They know Eteri brings the goods so any skater from her stable already gets heightened interested and a benefit of the doubt. Judges are human too in that they can get carried away by the exuberance or fireworks in a program just like you and I. Sarah Hughes had ugly underrotated jumps with awful technique but she was just so gosh darn cute and excited, she was not penalized for her tech flaws.

I feel like it's unfair to say Eteri exploits the system when the rulebook is public and can technically be exploited by anyone who cares to read it. Like, people said she exploited the rule that all jumps in the 2nd half of the program get a bonus and backloaded Alina's program 4 years ago where ALL jumps were in the second half. Looked ugly but got the points. But - this rule was well known to everyone. Why didn't everyone else do it? Because it's damn difficult, that's why. Note she didn't have Medvedeva do it, and that was because Medvedeva couldn't. That's why most people don't do it - because they are unable to. So Eteri didn't really exploit the rulebook, she followed it - just like anyone else, in theory, could.

But you are correct that the problem goes back to ISU and to a larger philosophical question: what is good skating? Skaters and coaches want to win. They read the rulebook and follow the rules that lead them to the pedestal. If you want to see a different kind of skater, you need to change the rules. And that certainly isn't Eteri's problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Wasn't Adelina Sotnikova hers?

No, she never trained with Eteri.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What’s in it for the Russian skaters post Olympics? I assume in the Communist era, it meant securing your family’s future. Now, what does it mean? It’s not like Russia is a booming market where they could have a future in endorsements (like Eileen Gu)? Or do they? What are the prior Olympic medalists doing now?

Mega rich and/or mega powerful Russian men marry them.
Exhibit A: Putin’s current wife (not skater but close). Exhibit B: Putin’s press secretary’s current wife (skater).

And I am only half kidding.

In any rate all three Eteri girls are getting medals from Putin. No kidding.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Is this conspiracy angle actually possible?

I’m someone who rolls my eyes at conspiracy theories, but I also skated at a high level when I was young and I don’t know about this one. Certainly Kamila was rattled and in her head before she ever started and could make mistakes because of it, but the sheer NUMBER of mistakes and falls — I don’t know that I buy it. At least two times, she had a decently solid landing, not terribly crooked or off balance, them twisted her body and had yet another fall. Absolutely looked as if it *could* have been intentional.

The behavior of the silver medalist was disgraceful at any competition, let alone an Olympic Games, and what the hell does “you knew everything” mean? I’m certain we’ll never know and this will all get swept under the rug, just as it always does.

As Adam Rippon said “what a s**t show. OMG.”

Just saw the ceremony where they were being presented with their stuffed animals. Trusova held hers with one hand flipping an obvious, pronounced bird.

What an absolute brat.

I assume she is abused by the state. The skaters have little agency over their own lives. Do you know how Russia works??

You know, if you want to argue that their training system sucks, that shipping young kids hundreds of miles away from their families to begin training in elementary school sucks, that the state funding their training and in return burdening them with totally unrealistic expectations of success sucks, etc,etc, I don’t disagree.

But the fact remains that in their system, umpteen athletes have managed to make it to the Olympics, compete, not take gold and *not* throw screaming temper tantrums and flip birds on the podium. So maybe expend less energy defending a pathetic, classless display from Trusova.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is Trusova’s complaint?

That five landed quads were not enough to win a gold medal.

Sorry I’m late to this part of the discussion but what’s the consensus on her point — comparing the skates of the gold and silver winners?

Her presentation score (which used to be called “artistry”) in both her Olympic programs was laughably inflated, as it always is for Russians in international competition, especially those under that coach. She has NONE. She marks time in between jumps. People like to bash Nathan Chen for being All Jumps and No Artistry, but compared to Trusova, he’s in the Bolshoi Ballet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What’s in it for the Russian skaters post Olympics? I assume in the Communist era, it meant securing your family’s future. Now, what does it mean? It’s not like Russia is a booming market where they could have a future in endorsements (like Eileen Gu)? Or do they? What are the prior Olympic medalists doing now?

Mega rich and/or mega powerful Russian men marry them.
Exhibit A: Putin’s current wife (not skater but close). Exhibit B: Putin’s press secretary’s current wife (skater).

And I am only half kidding.

In any rate all three Eteri girls are getting medals from Putin. No kidding.

Curious how you know so much about the Russian skating system?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A must watch.

I feel like this is hypocritical. Young retirement is common in skating. Oksana, Tara and Sarah all left in their teens. The fact is that few Olympic champions stay around. The motivation after the big O just isn't there. Really, the only hook of the story is the "lack of variety in their nationality", the fact that all these girls are Russian and come from the same coach. It would be better if they analyzed the last two Olympic pools and came up with the average age of a woman skater competing at the Olympics. Or worlds. Then you'll see if the world is getting younger, if skaters are retiring sooner, or if it's just Eteri.

Keep watching though. They go through the last 8 years -- the point they make is that the girls are 1) trained on a poor technique where they basically do a rotation before leaving the ice and putting a ton of strain on their backs 2) the component scores seem to be inflated the year they debut, beyond what makes sense, and then the scores fade 3) there is no interest in helping them through puberty by adjusting the training methods.

So a couple of points. First, prerotations are penalized under the Code of Points so there are trained judges out there who should be taking points off if that happens. That's a made-up issue.

The second issue is true but it is not Eteri's problem, it exists for all skaters. Tech and component scores are supposed to be independent of each other. That is, in theory, a skater can be excellent in "artistry" but suck on technique, and vice versa, someone like Trusova can get excellent scores on technique but get dumped in component scores. In practice, this happens very rarely. Typically a skater who executes tech content with excellence and panache will get elevated component scores even if they are entirely unjustified. Judges still cannot separate both well in their mind. Trusova, for instance, should NOT be getting high component scores. Neither should have Pluschenko when he skates. But the judges are human so they are mesmerized by tech fireworks to the degree where they hand out artistry scores like candy. It's a common problem and it existed before Eteri.

It’s not a “made up issue,” because they’re not getting those deductions the vast majority of the time. The Eteri tax.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Wasn't Adelina Sotnikova hers?

No, she never trained with Eteri.

I think PP is mixing up Adelina with Yulia Lipniskaya, who hit it big during the Sochi Olympics with the Team Event (the girl in the red jacket), and then only came in 5th for the singles event. She may have been Eteri’s first Olympic star.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What’s in it for the Russian skaters post Olympics? I assume in the Communist era, it meant securing your family’s future. Now, what does it mean? It’s not like Russia is a booming market where they could have a future in endorsements (like Eileen Gu)? Or do they? What are the prior Olympic medalists doing now?

Mega rich and/or mega powerful Russian men marry them.
Exhibit A: Putin’s current wife (not skater but close). Exhibit B: Putin’s press secretary’s current wife (skater).

And I am only half kidding.

In any rate all three Eteri girls are getting medals from Putin. No kidding.

Curious how you know so much about the Russian skating system?

I’m the PP and I don’t know much about the Russian skating system. I just follow the news from Russia a bit. Peskov (the one with the ex-skater wife) has already “held a press conference Friday where he defended the ROC’s coaching techniques for all of its winter sports”. Can you imagine Psaki doing the same?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:
Sure, all it would take is tens of millions of dollars that I'm sure someone has lying around.

I mean, yes. Skating is expensive. Ice time is expensive. Top coaching is expensive. Ballet is expensive. Opera is expensive. High art is expensive. What do we want to do? We either accept that they will be open only to the wealthy or to the privately sponsored. Or, you find public funding to make it available to most. I'm afraid there's no easy answer.

Chen's coach thinks skating academies are the answer where knowledge is centralized and systematic, and all skaters get the benefit of the same knowledge and experience.

So who pays for them? Are you proposing to publicly fund academies that will only be accessible to the elite? What politician is going to support building an arena open only to elite skaters? Do you think that people who have none elite skaters, or kids who play hockey, or who just want more publicly accessible ice will be ok with that?

Just improvising - you could, for instance, have an academy where children could start with lessons when they are four or five, but a proper system - not a pathetic once-a-week. Lessons two or three times a week, off ice fitness, ballet, choreo, nutrition etc. Have a natural progression/attrition system where each year they pass exams, and only those who pass advance to the next level, and the rest are counseled out and advised to stay with skating as a hobby.

It's not that they are accessible only to the elite, it's that they exist with an explicit purpose to train future elite of the sport. If you just want to skate as a hobby, you can still do that on your own time and dime. Not every parent and child wants serious training, and that's okay.

Sure, but most parents know how hard it is to get ice and would never support a publicly funded facility that excludes the vast majority. Also very very few people care about the US's ability to field slightly more competive figure skaters

Very well. I agree with you. It cannot be done. It should not be done.

We in the US do not belive in funding youth sports - really at all. Only at the top rungs for olympic sports. Like most things American, we believe in the free market (aka parent funding) for our kids, which is pretty on par with the rest of US domestic policies. If the US did start to do youth sports academies like they do elsewhere, our standings could improve, particularly in sports like soccer. But that's not how the US works. We have parent-pay programs and college. The end.

Yeah because winning the Olympics or the World Cup is not a national priority, nor should it be. It doesn’t matter. We need more recreational programs for enjoyment and good health but this elite nonsense is stupid .

[Anonymous]

Skating while Russian is still a thing

[Anonymous]

Chen has worked on his artistry a lot. Plus, he actually did train with a ballet company.

[Anonymous]

Can I just say I love that Johnny weir taught himself Russian.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can I just say I love that Johnny weir taught himself Russian.

His accent is terrific.