US Supreme Court Rules Against Affirmative Action in College Admissions

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If grades and scores are equal, give POC people a chance at the same opportunities as other counterparts.

Scores? As in standardized test scores?

The SAT/ACT are pretty much irrelevant going forward.

Look for the permanent test optional announcements from most of the T25 before the 2024-2025 admissions cycle.

Most are already TO for this fall.

And...no school of significance followed MIT.

MIT tends to follow what’s best for students, they didn’t jump in the TO bandwagon because they realized test scores in conjunction with other metrics are a better predictor of success at MIT. It’s one of the few top school that don’t give preference to legacy students. Kudos to them.

I agree with the Supreme Court decision. It’s fine to consider race, but in context, no box checking, no shameful personality scores.

HYPS are better and serve as more of a bellwether.

Thousands of colleges TO > MIT

I pray people like you get a TO doctor or a TO engineer to design the bridges you drive over. In your world where intelligence and capabilities matter less than how diverse you are need to live by the sword. For me- I’d like qualified people as judged by objective measures, you all and kumbayya all you want.

The objective tests should be utilized when attaining the certification/licensure, not to gain acceptance to the school. Admissions should be looking at the bigger picture, we need a different metric besides test scores when entering college, maybe we should begin streamlining kids earlier. Just because a HS kid has high SAT scores doesn’t mean they will be able become a competent surgeon or engineer.

TO or not, They still have to manage to graduate, pass licenses etc. I am very happy to have a TO physicians and engineers.

Yes and if you manage to pass with the required GPA and attain a license what’s the issue? I don’t see how an inflated prepped SAT score in HS means anything here.

The SAT is not the MCAT, I agree with testing related to expanding in one’s chosen field.

You think someone who struggles with the SAT is going to pass the MCAT or LSAT? Not in my experience - the rigor only increases and if you cannot pass basic high school competence covered by the SAT you are unlikely to do well on more advanced testing. Just like the D student is unlikely to start getting straight As in college - maybe it happens on in 10,000 but past performance is strongly correlated with future performance.

I think a prepped standardized test taken during HS when one is a teen, is a totally unreliable indicator of future success.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If grades and scores are equal, give POC people a chance at the same opportunities as other counterparts.

Scores? As in standardized test scores?

The SAT/ACT are pretty much irrelevant going forward.

Look for the permanent test optional announcements from most of the T25 before the 2024-2025 admissions cycle.

Most are already TO for this fall.

And...no school of significance followed MIT.

MIT tends to follow what’s best for students, they didn’t jump in the TO bandwagon because they realized test scores in conjunction with other metrics are a better predictor of success at MIT. It’s one of the few top school that don’t give preference to legacy students. Kudos to them.

I agree with the Supreme Court decision. It’s fine to consider race, but in context, no box checking, no shameful personality scores.

HYPS are better and serve as more of a bellwether.

Thousands of colleges TO > MIT

I pray people like you get a TO doctor or a TO engineer to design the bridges you drive over. In your world where intelligence and capabilities matter less than how diverse you are need to live by the sword. For me- I’d like qualified people as judged by objective measures, you all and kumbayya all you want.

The objective tests should be utilized when attaining the certification/licensure, not to gain acceptance to the school. Admissions should be looking at the bigger picture, we need a different metric besides test scores when entering college, maybe we should begin streamlining kids earlier. Just because a HS kid has high SAT scores doesn’t mean they will be able become a competent surgeon or engineer.

TO or not, They still have to manage to graduate, pass licenses etc. I am very happy to have a TO physicians and engineers.

Yes and if you manage to pass with the required GPA and attain a license what’s the issue? I don’t see how an inflated prepped SAT score in HS means anything here.

The SAT is not the MCAT, I agree with testing related to expanding in one’s chosen field.

You think someone who struggles with the SAT is going to pass the MCAT or LSAT? Not in my experience - the rigor only increases and if you cannot pass basic high school competence covered by the SAT you are unlikely to do well on more advanced testing. Just like the D student is unlikely to start getting straight As in college - maybe it happens on in 10,000 but past performance is strongly correlated with future performance.

I think a prepped standardized test taken during HS when one is a teen, is a totally unreliable indicator of future success.

It’s not supposed to measure “future success.” It’s supposed to measure intellectual aptitude, to identify kids who can pull off rigorous college. Pulling off rigorous college isn’t a reliable indicator of future success either mind you. The only idea is to make sure kids admitted can sink and not swim at college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If grades and scores are equal, give POC people a chance at the same opportunities as other counterparts.

Scores? As in standardized test scores?

The SAT/ACT are pretty much irrelevant going forward.

Look for the permanent test optional announcements from most of the T25 before the 2024-2025 admissions cycle.

Most are already TO for this fall.

And...no school of significance followed MIT.

MIT tends to follow what’s best for students, they didn’t jump in the TO bandwagon because they realized test scores in conjunction with other metrics are a better predictor of success at MIT. It’s one of the few top school that don’t give preference to legacy students. Kudos to them.

I agree with the Supreme Court decision. It’s fine to consider race, but in context, no box checking, no shameful personality scores.

HYPS are better and serve as more of a bellwether.

Thousands of colleges TO > MIT

I pray people like you get a TO doctor or a TO engineer to design the bridges you drive over. In your world where intelligence and capabilities matter less than how diverse you are need to live by the sword. For me- I’d like qualified people as judged by objective measures, you all and kumbayya all you want.

The objective tests should be utilized when attaining the certification/licensure, not to gain acceptance to the school. Admissions should be looking at the bigger picture, we need a different metric besides test scores when entering college, maybe we should begin streamlining kids earlier. Just because a HS kid has high SAT scores doesn’t mean they will be able become a competent surgeon or engineer.

TO or not, They still have to manage to graduate, pass licenses etc. I am very happy to have a TO physicians and engineers.

Yes and if you manage to pass with the required GPA and attain a license what’s the issue? I don’t see how an inflated prepped SAT score in HS means anything here.

The SAT is not the MCAT, I agree with testing related to expanding in one’s chosen field.

You think someone who struggles with the SAT is going to pass the MCAT or LSAT? Not in my experience - the rigor only increases and if you cannot pass basic high school competence covered by the SAT you are unlikely to do well on more advanced testing. Just like the D student is unlikely to start getting straight As in college - maybe it happens on in 10,000 but past performance is strongly correlated with future performance.

I think a prepped standardized test taken during HS when one is a teen, is a totally unreliable indicator of future success.

It’s not supposed to measure “future success.” It’s supposed to measure intellectual aptitude, to identify kids who can pull off rigorous college. Pulling off rigorous college isn’t a reliable indicator of future success either mind you. The only idea is to make sure kids admitted can sink and not swim at college.

Colleges want to educate future successful people not people who can best get through a rigorous college

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The funny part is that these Asian immigrants would not be here had it not been for the people like MLK who took a bullet for everyone. Some Asians don't like to discuss this because it reminds them that they are viewed as not white.
Maybe the civil rights leaders should have only focused on what would be best for African Americans and Native Americans. Forget immigrants, including those from Africa.

Didn't know Asians started to immigrate to the US because of MLK. I know you guys are bad at math and science and didn't know you're so bad at history too. So what are you good at?

Black person here to say eff you:

“The Civil Rights Movement that culminated in the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 ushered in a new age when we could envision the color of one’s skin may be neither an advantage nor a disadvantage. It also led to the overhaul of our immigration system, dismantling the preferences favoring those from the Western hemisphere by offering equal opportunity to everyone to immigrate to the United States without discrimination based on one’s national origin under the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965.”

-On remembering the legacy of Dr. Martin Luther King

https://www.houstonimmigration.org/on-remembering-the-legacy-of-dr-martin-luther-king-jr/#:~:text=It%20also%20led%20to%20the,and%20Nationality%20Act%20of%201965.

And Asian Indian person to say eff you to the black person who says eff you:

Have you not heard of the decolonization movement in india and Asia in the 1940s and 1950s that precended the US Civil Rights movement in the 1960s? Do you think the black Civil rights movement in the 1960s would have been successful without the decolonization moments in india that happened in the first half of the 20th century? So before you throw stones ar Asians perhaps you should look at your own history more carefully.

Not everything revolves around India as much as you would like to believe it.
Your presence in the US owes much to MLK and Black Americans unending fight for justice. Be grateful!

And MLK would not be who he is without the non-violent movement that was championed by Gandhi. So there.

That doesn’t change the point of their message: Asians did, in fact, start to immigrate to the US in much higher numbers due to the Civil Rights Movement loosening the country’s racist immigration laws. Sure, MLK was inspired by Gandhi, but it was MLK, not Gandhi, who got the job done here, and we should be grateful for that.

— child of Indian immigrants

Indians have the same color of skin as blacks. Yet, they are hugely successful. Why are blacks so special that you have to feel sorry for? Did Indians enslaved blacks?

Dear Lord! Are the current Indian immigrants and their offspring descendants of enslaved people? From my experience, the “successful” Indian families I know come from a position of relative privilege- wealthy enough to pay for a US education or come with a work visa because they have a sought after degree. Did they grow up with the same hurdles most Black and Hispanic face? Probably not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is funny because from what I have seen most of the benefits of affirmative action in top schools have gone to higher income Black - including kids of Nigerian doctors/Ethiopian immigrants, and higher-income Hispanics. Not the people it is intended to benefit. And it devalues the smart Black kids who would have got in anyway. Like the Michelle Obamas and Clarence Thomases of the world. I am hoping this ruling eliminates the higher income/advantaged "minority legacies" from taking advantage of a system which was meant for the actually disadvantaged - like the descendants of Black population where were enslaved and oppressed. And also makes people focus on improving early childhood education thus lifting all boats.

I’ve noticed this too. I get that it still diversifies the boardrooms eventually, but it hasn’t been nearly the program it was intended to be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is funny because from what I have seen most of the benefits of affirmative action in top schools have gone to higher income Black - including kids of Nigerian doctors/Ethiopian immigrants, and higher-income Hispanics. Not the people it is intended to benefit. And it devalues the smart Black kids who would have got in anyway. Like the Michelle Obamas and Clarence Thomases of the world. I am hoping this ruling eliminates the higher income/advantaged "minority legacies" from taking advantage of a system which was meant for the actually disadvantaged - like the descendants of Black population where were enslaved and oppressed. And also makes people focus on improving early childhood education thus lifting all boats.

Well as long as it doesn't lead to lowering of standards everywhere. which may very well be what happens from here.

[Anonymous]

Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. wrote that the decision does not bar “universities from considering an applicant’s discussion of how race affected his or her life, be it through discrimination, inspiration, or otherwise.”

That's a truck sized loop hole that every elite college will drive through easily.

Every elite college will now have a "trauma porn" type essay and will give huge weight to the essay in their so called holistic process. And guess what, somehow magically, the essays from URM candidates who proudly display their "race" and trauma will get "outstanding" for their essay and will slide into the accept pile. Of course no white or Asian kids essay will get that score, no matter how much trauma porn they display

Then somebody will sue one of these colleges after a few years and we will get all the dirty tricks they use by replacing the personality ratings with and essay rating to socially engineer the class.

The more things change, the more they stay the same

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If grades and scores are equal, give POC people a chance at the same opportunities as other counterparts.

Scores? As in standardized test scores?

The SAT/ACT are pretty much irrelevant going forward.

Look for the permanent test optional announcements from most of the T25 before the 2024-2025 admissions cycle.

Most are already TO for this fall.

And...no school of significance followed MIT.

MIT tends to follow what’s best for students, they didn’t jump in the TO bandwagon because they realized test scores in conjunction with other metrics are a better predictor of success at MIT. It’s one of the few top school that don’t give preference to legacy students. Kudos to them.

I agree with the Supreme Court decision. It’s fine to consider race, but in context, no box checking, no shameful personality scores.

HYPS are better and serve as more of a bellwether.

Thousands of colleges TO > MIT

I pray people like you get a TO doctor or a TO engineer to design the bridges you drive over. In your world where intelligence and capabilities matter less than how diverse you are need to live by the sword. For me- I’d like qualified people as judged by objective measures, you all and kumbayya all you want.

The objective tests should be utilized when attaining the certification/licensure, not to gain acceptance to the school. Admissions should be looking at the bigger picture, we need a different metric besides test scores when entering college, maybe we should begin streamlining kids earlier. Just because a HS kid has high SAT scores doesn’t mean they will be able become a competent surgeon or engineer.

TO or not, They still have to manage to graduate, pass licenses etc. I am very happy to have a TO physicians and engineers.

Yes and if you manage to pass with the required GPA and attain a license what’s the issue? I don’t see how an inflated prepped SAT score in HS means anything here.

The SAT is not the MCAT, I agree with testing related to expanding in one’s chosen field.

You think someone who struggles with the SAT is going to pass the MCAT or LSAT? Not in my experience - the rigor only increases and if you cannot pass basic high school competence covered by the SAT you are unlikely to do well on more advanced testing. Just like the D student is unlikely to start getting straight As in college - maybe it happens on in 10,000 but past performance is strongly correlated with future performance.

I think a prepped standardized test taken during HS when one is a teen, is a totally unreliable indicator of future success.

It’s not supposed to measure “future success.” It’s supposed to measure intellectual aptitude, to identify kids who can pull off rigorous college. Pulling off rigorous college isn’t a reliable indicator of future success either mind you. The only idea is to make sure kids admitted can sink and not swim at college.

A GPA and considering which courses passed in HS are good enough indicators. I agree an aptitude test is needed in some circumstances however when the process is exploited to a point where people are paying to inflate scores, this is a problem. Anyone could do this if they put in the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seriously why is everyone making this about asian kids? WTF?

The court case was brought by a racist organization but the person they used in The middle of the case was an Asian person.

Yep.

The "model minority" myth.

Asian Americans were merely used as pawns.

How condescending of you as to assume that the Asian Americans involved in the lawsuit weren’t smart enough or didn’t have enough agency of their own so they were made “pawns.” That’s a pretty racist trope as well.

Yeah, they had so much "agency" that not one Asian American student in the Harvard or UNC cases testified that they were discriminated against.

Stay silent and say nothing.

Pawns.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. wrote that the decision does not bar “universities from considering an applicant’s discussion of how race affected his or her life, be it through discrimination, inspiration, or otherwise.”

That's a truck sized loop hole that every elite college will drive through easily.

Every elite college will now have a "trauma porn" type essay and will give huge weight to the essay in their so called holistic process. And guess what, somehow magically, the essays from URM candidates who proudly display their "race" and trauma will get "outstanding" for their essay and will slide into the accept pile. Of course no white or Asian kids essay will get that score, no matter how much trauma porn they display

Then somebody will sue one of these colleges after a few years and we will get all the dirty tricks they use by replacing the personality ratings with and essay rating to socially engineer the class.

The more things change, the more they stay the same

That works really well until an admissions employee gives an interview and says that they were told to score URM essays in a certain way. The problem with all of these plans for work arounds is that they depend on very low paid employees to execute and all it takes is one with a grudge to blow the whistle

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seriously why is everyone making this about asian kids? WTF?

The court case was brought by a racist organization but the person they used in The middle of the case was an Asian person.

Yep.

The "model minority" myth.

Asian Americans were merely used as pawns.

How condescending of you as to assume that the Asian Americans involved in the lawsuit weren’t smart enough or didn’t have enough agency of their own so they were made “pawns.” That’s a pretty racist trope as well.

So it's worse to point out that people are being used as pawns than it is to use people as pawns (which Blum and his racist cronies absolutely did). Noted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is funny because from what I have seen most of the benefits of affirmative action in top schools have gone to higher income Black - including kids of Nigerian doctors/Ethiopian immigrants, and higher-income Hispanics. Not the people it is intended to benefit. And it devalues the smart Black kids who would have got in anyway. Like the Michelle Obamas and Clarence Thomases of the world. I am hoping this ruling eliminates the higher income/advantaged "minority legacies" from taking advantage of a system which was meant for the actually disadvantaged - like the descendants of Black population where were enslaved and oppressed. And also makes people focus on improving early childhood education thus lifting all boats.

I’ve noticed this too. I get that it still diversifies the boardrooms eventually, but it hasn’t been nearly the program it was intended to be.

Actually you have it wrong . You're assuming that it was designed for poor blacks—it wasn't. It appears that so many of you know nothing about it , which can explain all the falsehoods that have been spread over the years.

[Anonymous]

Asian and Indian students have been penalized for years. This will help them receive equal treatment, which is fair and morally right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seriously why is everyone making this about asian kids? WTF?

The court case was brought by a racist organization but the person they used in The middle of the case was an Asian person.

Yep.

The "model minority" myth.

Asian Americans were merely used as pawns.

How condescending of you as to assume that the Asian Americans involved in the lawsuit weren’t smart enough or didn’t have enough agency of their own so they were made “pawns.” That’s a pretty racist trope as well.

So it's worse to point out that people are being used as pawns than it is to use people as pawns (which Blum and his racist cronies absolutely did). Noted.

Except that all you said was false. You're lying POS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seriously why is everyone making this about asian kids? WTF?

The court case was brought by a racist organization but the person they used in The middle of the case was an Asian person.

Yep.

The "model minority" myth.

Asian Americans were merely used as pawns.

How condescending of you as to assume that the Asian Americans involved in the lawsuit weren’t smart enough or didn’t have enough agency of their own so they were made “pawns.” That’s a pretty racist trope as well.

So it's worse to point out that people are being used as pawns than it is to use people as pawns (which Blum and his racist cronies absolutely did). Noted.

Except that all you said was false. You're lying POS.

(OP here)

Please stop posting insults directed at other posters. All opinions all welcome, but personal attacks are not.