Internalized misogyny

[Anonymous]

Saw the mention of internalized misogyny in another thread. It was referring a MIL’s assumption that DIL does all emotional labor in marriage. I’m interested in this idea - if you have any, could you share other examples of internalized misogyny?

[Anonymous]

DCUM Relationships is a fine example of externalized misandry.

[Anonymous]

Are you the user who thought that having regular sex is misogyny?

[Anonymous]

Throughout my teens and early 20s I dealt with males shoving their hands in my underwear or bathing suit. Like when I was 13 an older boy did underwater at the pool, when I was 20 a male friend did when I crashed on his couch. I thought they were no big deal, it happens, and when my female friends were upset over similar incidents I called them dramatic. Now I realize it was a HUGE problem.

Another example - I’ve had a couple female friends who were severely abused by their husbands, both mentally/emotionally and physically (to the point of hospitalization) and EVERYONE tries to blame the woman somehow. That it was mutually toxic, she didn’t act like an abused woman so made the whole thing up, that it was her fault for staying and she should have left, that she shouldn’t have divorced him because omg think of the children.

Ooooo, or when I hear moms complain that they are terrified their sons will be falsely accused of sexual assault. I’m like, I have daughters, I’m terrified of ACTUAL assault. Just tell your sons the same thing we have been telling girls for centuries - if you don’t want it to happen, don’t put yourself in a situation where it can. Sorry boys, but no more parties, drinking, being along with girls. Keep sober and make sure you have a friend with you at all times. Oh that’s not fair you can do whatever you want? Boo hoo.

[Anonymous]

I’m the poster that mentioned it. So, I’m assuming you want examples of where women have internalized misogynistic ideas. Examples would be:

Jumping in at work to make the coffee, plan the parties, take the meeting notes.
Writing all the thank you notes after the wedding
Jumping in to manage the relationship with their in laws
Feeling bad when you make more money than your husband
Judging women for how they dress
When you hear about a sexual assault, immediately wondering why the woman was there and if she was drunk

I could go on and on.

[Anonymous]

Let’s just rephrase this post to how do I blame men for everything. My MIL does these things because she has internalized the misogyny of all the men in her life. Another sad blame fest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Saw the mention of internalized misogyny in another thread. It was referring a MIL’s assumption that DIL does all emotional labor in marriage. I’m interested in this idea - if you have any, could you share other examples of internalized misogyny?

Do you mean the assumption that DIL should do it? Or just that she assumes she does? Because just the assumption isn’t internalized misogyny.

One example of internalized misogyny in my life is my mom believing that women getting fat after 10+ years of marriage is grounds for divorce because “that’s not what the man signed up for.”

Actually a better example is just that she believed that she was better than other women because she was thin and that she valued male validation so much. It’s wild.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m the poster that mentioned it. So, I’m assuming you want examples of where women have internalized misogynistic ideas. Examples would be:

Jumping in at work to make the coffee, plan the parties, take the meeting notes.
Writing all the thank you notes after the wedding
Jumping in to manage the relationship with their in laws
Feeling bad when you make more money than your husband
Judging women for how they dress
When you hear about a sexual assault, immediately wondering why the woman was there and if she was drunk

I could go on and on.

OP here. Wow, thanks. I’ve been with my husband for 12 years and just in the last 2-3 years I’ve had this growing awareness that I am perpetuating a lot of my own problems and complaints. It never occurred to me that they were internalized misogyny, but I check like 4 of the above items. Including writing all thank you notes, always jumping in to plan everything, managing relationships. I’ve basically cut myself off cold Turkey but I am still very much in the work of it.

I will add one - for decades I thought it was justified to feel self-disgust for being less than an ideal size that much resembled a heroin chic model. Now I’m working on discarding that idea. Even though I’ve rejected it intellectually a lot of the emotions are still there.

I’m amazed at how common this is and also it is empowering because I realize I can change my boundaries and do something about it.

[Anonymous]

Johnny Depp.

Women don’t report abuse for theatre. Women report abuse as courageous acts. Why don’t they report it more?

Johnny Depp.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Saw the mention of internalized misogyny in another thread. It was referring a MIL’s assumption that DIL does all emotional labor in marriage. I’m interested in this idea - if you have any, could you share other examples of internalized misogyny?

Do you mean the assumption that DIL should do it? Or just that she assumes she does? Because just the assumption isn’t internalized misogyny.

One example of internalized misogyny in my life is my mom believing that women getting fat after 10+ years of marriage is grounds for divorce because “that’s not what the man signed up for.”

Actually a better example is just that she believed that she was better than other women because she was thin and that she valued male validation so much. It’s wild.

OP here. To be honest I don’t really understand that distinction between assuming DIL does it or assuming that she should. They seem like slightly varied situations with the same root issue - the assumption that somehow dil is either responsible or should be.

I understand in my own way that makes validation/aspiring to be thin thing. It is such an imprisoned way to live and so sad that so many of us unconsciously agree to become conditioned to value such a specific thing that is actually meaningless (myself included! I’m in therapy for it).

[Anonymous]

male* validation

[Anonymous]

Criticizing female managers when they act the way a male manager would. Demanding that female managers be somehow kinder, gentler, in touch with their emotions, etc.

[Anonymous]

Lots of examples on dcum. Women perpetuating sexist tropes and ideas, upholding misogynistic cultural norms. There are a lot of posts suggesting women are not worthy if they are not thin, beautiful and young. These posts are less often made by men and often written by women. It’s sad.

It is reminiscent of colorism among poc; people internalizing that their skin or hair is “bad” because it is farther away from Eurocentric beauty ideals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let’s just rephrase this post to how do I blame men for everything. My MIL does these things because she has internalized the misogyny of all the men in her life. Another sad blame fest.

I don’t see it as blaming men at all. I think we were all born into a system that was originally designed for a very, very small number of white men to acquire wealth off of the hard work of everyone else. This system hurts men in addition to women, unless they are in the elite minority. I don’t blame men for being born into this system, but I do think we all need to critically look at and challenge our beliefs.

Just examples…

1. We know that men who can’t gain access to sex run the risk of becoming violent (see: incels). By allowing for sexual assault of women, and by convincing men *women* are to blame, rather than the system that keeps them poor and unattractive, they are either satiated by assault/pressuring women for sex, OR they focus their anger on women rather than the men who are exploiting their work.

2. Society devalues childcare because it’s traditionally female work, which also means men don’t get much when it comes to parental leave, work-life balance, flexibility, etc. If we as a culture elevate raising children, men will also get paid paternity leave, fewer work hours, and better work-life balance. But this ultimately is bad for corporations who need men to work their @$$es off, so society has convinced men that parenting is not their responsibility.

3. As a society we’ve convinced everyone that women are attracted to men with money and that men need to provide for their families. That pressure is exploited to get men to work more hours for less pay.

The thing people don’t get is *misogyny hurts men, too*. Men could be valued as human beings rather than ATMs, have more time with their kids, and have overall more fulfilling lives, but instead they’re too busy trying to fight women. It’s not either men or women, it’s when we make things equal for all, it actually helps everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m the poster that mentioned it. So, I’m assuming you want examples of where women have internalized misogynistic ideas. Examples would be:

Jumping in at work to make the coffee, plan the parties, take the meeting notes.
Writing all the thank you notes after the wedding
Jumping in to manage the relationship with their in laws
Feeling bad when you make more money than your husband
Judging women for how they dress
When you hear about a sexual assault, immediately wondering why the woman was there and if she was drunk

I could go on and on.

OP here. Wow, thanks. I’ve been with my husband for 12 years and just in the last 2-3 years I’ve had this growing awareness that I am perpetuating a lot of my own problems and complaints. It never occurred to me that they were internalized misogyny, but I check like 4 of the above items. Including writing all thank you notes, always jumping in to plan everything, managing relationships. I’ve basically cut myself off cold Turkey but I am still very much in the work of it.

I will add one - for decades I thought it was justified to feel self-disgust for being less than an ideal size that much resembled a heroin chic model. Now I’m working on discarding that idea. Even though I’ve rejected it intellectually a lot of the emotions are still there.

I’m amazed at how common this is and also it is empowering because I realize I can change my boundaries and do something about it.

The reality is that I somehow managed to become an ardent feminist after being raised in a home that was rampant with misogyny. And honestly, it wasn’t even intentional. I remember starting my first job after college as a paralegal at a BigLaw firm. We had an all day meeting on a Saturday. The partner asked me to go make coffee. I’ve never drink coffee and my family didn’t have a coffee maker. I had to say “I don’t know how to make coffee.” I spent 45 minutes in the room hearing all the level setting in the deal room while my male counterpart spent like 45 minutes going somewhere to make coffee and bringing it in to everyone. I was like “ding, ding, ding… I am NEVER learning to make coffee.” 20 years later I’m a C suite Exec that doesn’t know how to make coffee.

My husband invited 350 people to our wedding and I invited 100. I made very clear that he was writing the thank you notes for all his people because his list was INSANE. It wasn’t some big feminist statement — it was just “you are bananas and I’m not dealing with this.”

Assuming you are in the work force, read over every email you write and consider removing all “I think” and “I believe” statements. Just say “we should do X.”

And really, you don’t have to plan all the things. In actuality, I do most planning (although not with my husband’s family). My husband is the great executor of the plans I make. But he sure as heck can plan Mother’s Day. And we see his family once or twice a month with him managing the planning.