What is your best advice for kids heading off to college this fall?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do think that a poll of college students would show that the large majority never or virtually never have any contact with the large majority of professors outside of the classroom. Why do folks on this board think that extensive contact with professors outside of the classroom is so critically important when the evidence is to the contrary? Not trying to be snarky; I am genuinely curious.

What might be going on, I think, is that that was the experience of more DCUM parents than the average college graduate because this is such a "Type A" area. It might also be that too many years have passed since DCUM parents went to college and they're misremembering.

I remember going to college, working hard and partying hard, having friends who did the same, then all of us going on to successful careers and lives. And I don't remember any of us ever having anything to do with professors outside of the classroom except in rare instances. While it's true that none of us got PhD's, virtually all of us went to grad school, med school, or law school.

DH and I have never been accused of being Type A, though I'll admit we've lived in DC for so long that maybe we just take the Type A stuff for granted. In any case. we went to very different undergrad institutions -- a New England SLAC and a big rah-rah midwestern school, then met at law school. We did a fair amount of partying at all these institutions of higher learning (though I'm happy to give DH the summa honors in this field). And maybe you're right that we're misremembering our own bright college days, but over the past 10 years, we've seen our three kids go off to college and grad school. Among them, they've been to two SLACs, one big private research university, one law school and one med school. So, while I don't have a big data set here, I do have some recent and current anecdotal examples. (See -- I'm not even calling it evidence, so don't get your back up).

And, here's what I can tell you. All of us got to know a few profs at all of these schools. I mean -- why not? They're smart people and a lot of them are nice, interesting people who want to help their students. Did this help us academically and professionally? In some cases, yeah, absolutely. Has it led to nice friendships, some of which have lasted decades? Again, yes. Doing this never seemed odd to us or like we were sucking up. I will note, though, that DH might have been more open to finding mentors and making friends with profs because his dad was a prof (at the same big rah-rah midwestern university that he attended). And, one of my BILs is a prof, so that might have made our own kids more comfortable with approaching profs.

So, while I can't say conclusively that all students can improve their chances of academic and professional success by getting to know profs, I don't see what the down side is either. And I can't for the life of me figure out why people who didn't get to know profs are so fixed on the idea that it's some kind of con to suggest to kids that they can ask a prof for help or advice if they need it.

Finally, in my own experience, one of the best opportunities I got out of getting to know a prof was living rent-free in a fabulous San Francisco apartment for three months. Yes, I had to take care of the prof's very needy basset hound, but as she (prof, not hound) hopped into the cab taking her to the airport, she yelled, "There's a bottle of vodka in the crisper drawer of the 'frig and it's all yours." (She was my Russian history, prof, BTW, and was totally awesome and cool.)

Let’s see. You and your husband are both lawyers. And you just wrote an exegesis on the value of contact with professors on a college discussion board. And your kids are already out of college and in med and law school.

But, no, you’re not Type A. No, not at all.

Well, maybe a little bit, which, you have to admit, I acknowledged. But how does that have anything to do with the substance of my response? (BTW, did you study at Oxford? The only people I know who regularly use the word "exegesis" studied at Oxford. But they're not all Type A -- at least, not anymore.)

[Anonymous]

Another prof here: I will pass along that I have had to turn down students who have asked for references or recommendations, particularly when they neither participated in class nor came to office hours. When you don't really know the student beyond their performance on assignments or exams, it's impossible to write an assessment with the level of detail that some grad programs or employers want.

IMO, it's the average student who really benefits by using office hours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Who uses professors for course selection advice? Isn’t that what advisors and fellow students and course requirements are for?

Prof here. Professional advising staff can help you figure out what you need to do to graduate. If your school assigns faculty to advise all students, as smaller schools tend to do, they will do their best to read the requirements and provide guidance, but they will be overstressed at advising time, under-trained on the requirements (I speak as someone who was often tossed head-first into this role), and they only know of your interests what they can gather in a 10-15 minute meeting. The faculty who already know you from a class and have a sense of your strengths and interests and needs are an invaluable source of additional help deciding what to take.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Another prof here: I will pass along that I have had to turn down students who have asked for references or recommendations, particularly when they neither participated in class nor came to office hours. When you don't really know the student beyond their performance on assignments or exams, it's impossible to write an assessment with the level of detail that some grad programs or employers want.

IMO, it's the average student who really benefits by using office hours.

Nobody cares. Jobs and / or grad school admissions don’t turn on professor recommendations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who uses professors for course selection advice? Isn’t that what advisors and fellow students and course requirements are for?

Prof here. Professional advising staff can help you figure out what you need to do to graduate. If your school assigns faculty to advise all students, as smaller schools tend to do, they will do their best to read the requirements and provide guidance, but they will be overstressed at advising time, under-trained on the requirements (I speak as someone who was often tossed head-first into this role), and they only know of your interests what they can gather in a 10-15 minute meeting. The faculty who already know you from a class and have a sense of your strengths and interests and needs are an invaluable source of additional help deciding what to take.

I wish I knew who all of these struggling students were who need professors to hold their hands. I didn’t, my spouse didn’t, my friends didn’t, my siblings didn’t, and my kids didn’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who uses professors for course selection advice? Isn’t that what advisors and fellow students and course requirements are for?

Prof here. Professional advising staff can help you figure out what you need to do to graduate. If your school assigns faculty to advise all students, as smaller schools tend to do, they will do their best to read the requirements and provide guidance, but they will be overstressed at advising time, under-trained on the requirements (I speak as someone who was often tossed head-first into this role), and they only know of your interests what they can gather in a 10-15 minute meeting. The faculty who already know you from a class and have a sense of your strengths and interests and needs are an invaluable source of additional help deciding what to take.

I wish I knew who all of these struggling students were who need professors to hold their hands. I didn’t, my spouse didn’t, my friends didn’t, my siblings didn’t, and my kids didn’t.

They're probably not struggling. Maybe that's why you don't know them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another prof here: I will pass along that I have had to turn down students who have asked for references or recommendations, particularly when they neither participated in class nor came to office hours. When you don't really know the student beyond their performance on assignments or exams, it's impossible to write an assessment with the level of detail that some grad programs or employers want.

IMO, it's the average student who really benefits by using office hours.

Nobody cares. Jobs and / or grad school admissions don’t turn on professor recommendations.

That is true sometimes, but often prof recommendations make a world of difference. Really depends on the field and the type of job, don't you think?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another prof here: I will pass along that I have had to turn down students who have asked for references or recommendations, particularly when they neither participated in class nor came to office hours. When you don't really know the student beyond their performance on assignments or exams, it's impossible to write an assessment with the level of detail that some grad programs or employers want.

IMO, it's the average student who really benefits by using office hours.

Nobody cares. Jobs and / or grad school admissions don’t turn on professor recommendations.

That is true sometimes, but it really depends on the field and the type of job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another prof here: I will pass along that I have had to turn down students who have asked for references or recommendations, particularly when they neither participated in class nor came to office hours. When you don't really know the student beyond their performance on assignments or exams, it's impossible to write an assessment with the level of detail that some grad programs or employers want.

IMO, it's the average student who really benefits by using office hours.

Nobody cares. Jobs and / or grad school admissions don’t turn on professor recommendations.

That is true sometimes, but often prof recommendations make a world of difference. Really depends on the field and the type of job, don't you think?

I guess. But I know of precisely no one where it has mattered. And everyone I know has a job so . . .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who uses professors for course selection advice? Isn’t that what advisors and fellow students and course requirements are for?

Prof here. Professional advising staff can help you figure out what you need to do to graduate. If your school assigns faculty to advise all students, as smaller schools tend to do, they will do their best to read the requirements and provide guidance, but they will be overstressed at advising time, under-trained on the requirements (I speak as someone who was often tossed head-first into this role), and they only know of your interests what they can gather in a 10-15 minute meeting. The faculty who already know you from a class and have a sense of your strengths and interests and needs are an invaluable source of additional help deciding what to take.

I wish I knew who all of these struggling students were who need professors to hold their hands. I didn’t, my spouse didn’t, my friends didn’t, my siblings didn’t, and my kids didn’t.

Maybe because they’re too ashamed to tell you that they’re struggling because you have no trust.

[Anonymous]

Use a condom always, don't drink anything you didn't buy or open (especially for women), and don't get hooked on smoking anything. Always have a buddy system when you go out to party.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who uses professors for course selection advice? Isn’t that what advisors and fellow students and course requirements are for?

Prof here. Professional advising staff can help you figure out what you need to do to graduate. If your school assigns faculty to advise all students, as smaller schools tend to do, they will do their best to read the requirements and provide guidance, but they will be overstressed at advising time, under-trained on the requirements (I speak as someone who was often tossed head-first into this role), and they only know of your interests what they can gather in a 10-15 minute meeting. The faculty who already know you from a class and have a sense of your strengths and interests and needs are an invaluable source of additional help deciding what to take.

I wish I knew who all of these struggling students were who need professors to hold their hands. I didn’t, my spouse didn’t, my friends didn’t, my siblings didn’t, and my kids didn’t.

THey are not struggling, they are networking.

You really must have had a different undergrad experiences than most of the more impressive people I know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another prof here: I will pass along that I have had to turn down students who have asked for references or recommendations, particularly when they neither participated in class nor came to office hours. When you don't really know the student beyond their performance on assignments or exams, it's impossible to write an assessment with the level of detail that some grad programs or employers want.

IMO, it's the average student who really benefits by using office hours.

Nobody cares. Jobs and / or grad school admissions don’t turn on professor recommendations.

That is true sometimes, but often prof recommendations make a world of difference. Really depends on the field and the type of job, don't you think?

I guess. But I know of precisely no one where it has mattered. And everyone I know has a job so . . .

Unless you have been sitting in on everyone's admissions or hiring committees, you have no idea what has mattered.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another prof here: I will pass along that I have had to turn down students who have asked for references or recommendations, particularly when they neither participated in class nor came to office hours. When you don't really know the student beyond their performance on assignments or exams, it's impossible to write an assessment with the level of detail that some grad programs or employers want.

IMO, it's the average student who really benefits by using office hours.

Nobody cares. Jobs and / or grad school admissions don’t turn on professor recommendations.

That is true sometimes, but often prof recommendations make a world of difference. Really depends on the field and the type of job, don't you think?

I guess. But I know of precisely no one where it has mattered. And everyone I know has a job so . . .

Unless you have been sitting in on everyone's admissions or hiring committees, you have no idea what has mattered.

How could a recommendation letter matter if the job application doesn’t ask for one?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another prof here: I will pass along that I have had to turn down students who have asked for references or recommendations, particularly when they neither participated in class nor came to office hours. When you don't really know the student beyond their performance on assignments or exams, it's impossible to write an assessment with the level of detail that some grad programs or employers want.

IMO, it's the average student who really benefits by using office hours.

Nobody cares. Jobs and / or grad school admissions don’t turn on professor recommendations.

Depending on field, they absolutely do.