What is your best advice for kids heading off to college this fall?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I do think that a poll of college students would show that the large majority never or virtually never have any contact with the large majority of professors outside of the classroom. Why do folks on this board think that extensive contact with professors outside of the classroom is so critically important when the evidence is to the contrary? Not trying to be snarky; I am genuinely curious.

What might be going on, I think, is that that was the experience of more DCUM parents than the average college graduate because this is such a "Type A" area. It might also be that too many years have passed since DCUM parents went to college and they're misremembering.

I remember going to college, working hard and partying hard, having friends who did the same, then all of us going on to successful careers and lives. And I don't remember any of us ever having anything to do with professors outside of the classroom except in rare instances. While it's true that none of us got PhD's, virtually all of us went to grad school, med school, or law school.

One of my big college regrets is that I didn't do this until senior year. I was intimidated by professors. By the time I got to know a couple late on my senior year, it was too late to use most of their advice on choosing courses, etc. I wish someone had given me that advice.

[Anonymous]

Socially: participate in a few activities or events and try to push yourself to talk to one new person a day, even if nothing comes from it.

Academically (I'm a professor): turn stuff in on time every time, read each assignment twice to be sure you understand it, and try to reach out to each prof either via office hours or a conversation or by participating in class because these small relationship building elements go a long way to make us feel warm towards you and feel like you are trying.

Other: no births, no deaths, no cops is cute, but I have a lot of students who have children and they are wonderful. They're probably not traditional students like many of your kids are, but it's not fair to paint all college students the same way and doesn't help encourage upward mobility for young or single parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do think that a poll of college students would show that the large majority never or virtually never have any contact with the large majority of professors outside of the classroom. Why do folks on this board think that extensive contact with professors outside of the classroom is so critically important when the evidence is to the contrary? Not trying to be snarky; I am genuinely curious.

What might be going on, I think, is that that was the experience of more DCUM parents than the average college graduate because this is such a "Type A" area. It might also be that too many years have passed since DCUM parents went to college and they're misremembering.

I remember going to college, working hard and partying hard, having friends who did the same, then all of us going on to successful careers and lives. And I don't remember any of us ever having anything to do with professors outside of the classroom except in rare instances. While it's true that none of us got PhD's, virtually all of us went to grad school, med school, or law school.

One of my big college regrets is that I didn't do this until senior year. I was intimidated by professors. By the time I got to know a couple late on my senior year, it was too late to use most of their advice on choosing courses, etc. I wish someone had given me that advice.

Prof here again. Office hours are not the end-all-be-all or necessary for building relationships. Participating in class or chatting after class are great ways to connect. Reaching out via office hours WHEN you actually have a solid question or concern is also great. But making an office hours appointment for no reason isn't a good use of time and I'd discourage that...just raise your hand in class and contribute solidly or have a 4 sentence conversation after class instead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do think that a poll of college students would show that the large majority never or virtually never have any contact with the large majority of professors outside of the classroom. Why do folks on this board think that extensive contact with professors outside of the classroom is so critically important when the evidence is to the contrary? Not trying to be snarky; I am genuinely curious.

What might be going on, I think, is that that was the experience of more DCUM parents than the average college graduate because this is such a "Type A" area. It might also be that too many years have passed since DCUM parents went to college and they're misremembering.

I remember going to college, working hard and partying hard, having friends who did the same, then all of us going on to successful careers and lives. And I don't remember any of us ever having anything to do with professors outside of the classroom except in rare instances. While it's true that none of us got PhD's, virtually all of us went to grad school, med school, or law school.

One of my big college regrets is that I didn't do this until senior year. I was intimidated by professors. By the time I got to know a couple late on my senior year, it was too late to use most of their advice on choosing courses, etc. I wish someone had given me that advice.

Who uses professors for course selection advice? Isn’t that what advisors and fellow students and course requirements are for?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do think that a poll of college students would show that the large majority never or virtually never have any contact with the large majority of professors outside of the classroom. Why do folks on this board think that extensive contact with professors outside of the classroom is so critically important when the evidence is to the contrary? Not trying to be snarky; I am genuinely curious.

What might be going on, I think, is that that was the experience of more DCUM parents than the average college graduate because this is such a "Type A" area. It might also be that too many years have passed since DCUM parents went to college and they're misremembering.

I remember going to college, working hard and partying hard, having friends who did the same, then all of us going on to successful careers and lives. And I don't remember any of us ever having anything to do with professors outside of the classroom except in rare instances. While it's true that none of us got PhD's, virtually all of us went to grad school, med school, or law school.

One of my big college regrets is that I didn't do this until senior year. I was intimidated by professors. By the time I got to know a couple late on my senior year, it was too late to use most of their advice on choosing courses, etc. I wish someone had given me that advice.

Who uses professors for course selection advice? Isn’t that what advisors and fellow students and course requirements are for?

Did you go to college yourself? Advisors ARE professors! They don't have guidance counsellors in college.

I feel like some of these people who never mingled with professors might have gone to big state schools, which are not set up for personal engagement.

My daughter favored a small LAC and I am so glad. She has had dinner at professor's houses (with her classmates and his family), club advisors have accompanied students out on weekend outings just for fun and interest (like finding critters during the Vernal Equinox, with the Wildlife Society). They look over her essays in advance, for important internship opportunities (which she landed). Her school gives each kid two advisors, and they have been really terrific.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do think that a poll of college students would show that the large majority never or virtually never have any contact with the large majority of professors outside of the classroom. Why do folks on this board think that extensive contact with professors outside of the classroom is so critically important when the evidence is to the contrary? Not trying to be snarky; I am genuinely curious.

What might be going on, I think, is that that was the experience of more DCUM parents than the average college graduate because this is such a "Type A" area. It might also be that too many years have passed since DCUM parents went to college and they're misremembering.

I remember going to college, working hard and partying hard, having friends who did the same, then all of us going on to successful careers and lives. And I don't remember any of us ever having anything to do with professors outside of the classroom except in rare instances. While it's true that none of us got PhD's, virtually all of us went to grad school, med school, or law school.

One of my big college regrets is that I didn't do this until senior year. I was intimidated by professors. By the time I got to know a couple late on my senior year, it was too late to use most of their advice on choosing courses, etc. I wish someone had given me that advice.

Who uses professors for course selection advice? Isn’t that what advisors and fellow students and course requirements are for?

Did you go to college yourself? Advisors ARE professors! They don't have guidance counsellors in college.

I feel like some of these people who never mingled with professors might have gone to big state schools, which are not set up for personal engagement.

My daughter favored a small LAC and I am so glad. She has had dinner at professor's houses (with her classmates and his family), club advisors have accompanied students out on weekend outings just for fun and interest (like finding critters during the Vernal Equinox, with the Wildlife Society). They look over her essays in advance, for important internship opportunities (which she landed). Her school gives each kid two advisors, and they have been really terrific.

Of course I know that advisors are typically professors. If PP is saying that her professor advisor intimidated her then that’s entirely on her. The whole point of having an advisor assigned is to avoid that. You can lead a horse to water . . .

Your daughter’s college experience sounds suffocating. In any event, your premise is false. One of mine went to a top 10 LAC and didn’t put herself through all that. No interest. Another went to UVA and had good relationships with several profs. Not because she stalked them during office hours or anything, but because she was a class standout and they took notice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread went south when a poster poo-poo'd the need to suck up the professors and other posters didn't like that. Nobody was offering any real advice before that, just joking around.

Well for PhD program admissions at least, especially at the same university as for undergrad, you DO need to suck up to professors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This started as a nice thread of people sharing some pearls of wisdom and it’s been ruined all this back and forth.

I was just about to post the same thing

Oh really? The first response was don't smoke cigarettes and don't get pregnant. Then someone said wear a rubber. Then someone said join a frat and "chicks" will think your "peenie weenie" is big. Then somebody said she wished she'd been told that most guys aren't worth the trouble.

Which of these pearls of wisdom was "nice" exactly?

The best advice is often the most obvious, yet the hardest to actually apply.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I do think that a poll of college students would show that the large majority never or virtually never have any contact with the large majority of professors outside of the classroom. Why do folks on this board think that extensive contact with professors outside of the classroom is so critically important when the evidence is to the contrary? Not trying to be snarky; I am genuinely curious.

What might be going on, I think, is that that was the experience of more DCUM parents than the average college graduate because this is such a "Type A" area. It might also be that too many years have passed since DCUM parents went to college and they're misremembering.

I remember going to college, working hard and partying hard, having friends who did the same, then all of us going on to successful careers and lives. And I don't remember any of us ever having anything to do with professors outside of the classroom except in rare instances. While it's true that none of us got PhD's, virtually all of us went to grad school, med school, or law school.

I graduated from a NESCAC LAC and had a lot of contact with certain professors during my time there, particularly in my majors departments. I went to dinner at professors' houses occasionally and had meals with them from time to time. I also visited during office hours to discuss classwork as well as other things (e.g. grad school options).

After graduating, I worked for five years and then applied to law schools. It was easy to get recommendations from these professors who knew me very well.

I am 60 years old now, and still in touch with two professors. I visited one of them at his senior community when I was in New England a few years ago.

I treasure those relationships.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do think that a poll of college students would show that the large majority never or virtually never have any contact with the large majority of professors outside of the classroom. Why do folks on this board think that extensive contact with professors outside of the classroom is so critically important when the evidence is to the contrary? Not trying to be snarky; I am genuinely curious.

What might be going on, I think, is that that was the experience of more DCUM parents than the average college graduate because this is such a "Type A" area. It might also be that too many years have passed since DCUM parents went to college and they're misremembering.

I remember going to college, working hard and partying hard, having friends who did the same, then all of us going on to successful careers and lives. And I don't remember any of us ever having anything to do with professors outside of the classroom except in rare instances. While it's true that none of us got PhD's, virtually all of us went to grad school, med school, or law school.

One of my big college regrets is that I didn't do this until senior year. I was intimidated by professors. By the time I got to know a couple late on my senior year, it was too late to use most of their advice on choosing courses, etc. I wish someone had given me that advice.

Who uses professors for course selection advice? Isn’t that what advisors and fellow students and course requirements are for?

Did you go to college yourself? Advisors ARE professors! They don't have guidance counsellors in college.

I feel like some of these people who never mingled with professors might have gone to big state schools, which are not set up for personal engagement.

My daughter favored a small LAC and I am so glad. She has had dinner at professor's houses (with her classmates and his family), club advisors have accompanied students out on weekend outings just for fun and interest (like finding critters during the Vernal Equinox, with the Wildlife Society). They look over her essays in advance, for important internship opportunities (which she landed). Her school gives each kid two advisors, and they have been really terrific.

Of course I know that advisors are typically professors. If PP is saying that her professor advisor intimidated her then that’s entirely on her. The whole point of having an advisor assigned is to avoid that. You can lead a horse to water . . .

Your daughter’s college experience sounds suffocating. In any event, your premise is false. One of mine went to a top 10 LAC and didn’t put herself through all that. No interest. Another went to UVA and had good relationships with several profs. Not because she stalked them during office hours or anything, but because she was a class standout and they took notice.

Sounds like you missed out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I do think that a poll of college students would show that the large majority never or virtually never have any contact with the large majority of professors outside of the classroom. Why do folks on this board think that extensive contact with professors outside of the classroom is so critically important when the evidence is to the contrary? Not trying to be snarky; I am genuinely curious.

What might be going on, I think, is that that was the experience of more DCUM parents than the average college graduate because this is such a "Type A" area. It might also be that too many years have passed since DCUM parents went to college and they're misremembering.

I remember going to college, working hard and partying hard, having friends who did the same, then all of us going on to successful careers and lives. And I don't remember any of us ever having anything to do with professors outside of the classroom except in rare instances. While it's true that none of us got PhD's, virtually all of us went to grad school, med school, or law school.

DH and I have never been accused of being Type A, though I'll admit we've lived in DC for so long that maybe we just take the Type A stuff for granted. In any case. we went to very different undergrad institutions -- a New England SLAC and a big rah-rah midwestern school, then met at law school. We did a fair amount of partying at all these institutions of higher learning (though I'm happy to give DH the summa honors in this field). And maybe you're right that we're misremembering our own bright college days, but over the past 10 years, we've seen our three kids go off to college and grad school. Among them, they've been to two SLACs, one big private research university, one law school and one med school. So, while I don't have a big data set here, I do have some recent and current anecdotal examples. (See -- I'm not even calling it evidence, so don't get your back up).

And, here's what I can tell you. All of us got to know a few profs at all of these schools. I mean -- why not? They're smart people and a lot of them are nice, interesting people who want to help their students. Did this help us academically and professionally? In some cases, yeah, absolutely. Has it led to nice friendships, some of which have lasted decades? Again, yes. Doing this never seemed odd to us or like we were sucking up. I will note, though, that DH might have been more open to finding mentors and making friends with profs because his dad was a prof (at the same big rah-rah midwestern university that he attended). And, one of my BILs is a prof, so that might have made our own kids more comfortable with approaching profs.

So, while I can't say conclusively that all students can improve their chances of academic and professional success by getting to know profs, I don't see what the down side is either. And I can't for the life of me figure out why people who didn't get to know profs are so fixed on the idea that it's some kind of con to suggest to kids that they can ask a prof for help or advice if they need it.

Finally, in my own experience, one of the best opportunities I got out of getting to know a prof was living rent-free in a fabulous San Francisco apartment for three months. Yes, I had to take care of the prof's very needy basset hound, but as she (prof, not hound) hopped into the cab taking her to the airport, she yelled, "There's a bottle of vodka in the crisper drawer of the 'frig and it's all yours." (She was my Russian history, prof, BTW, and was totally awesome and cool.)

[Anonymous]

I commented earlier about the dangers of drinking in public for young women but would actually add, "Have a plan for recreational substance use." It's smart to set your limits and goals in this area before you are in the recreational moment itself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do think that a poll of college students would show that the large majority never or virtually never have any contact with the large majority of professors outside of the classroom. Why do folks on this board think that extensive contact with professors outside of the classroom is so critically important when the evidence is to the contrary? Not trying to be snarky; I am genuinely curious.

What might be going on, I think, is that that was the experience of more DCUM parents than the average college graduate because this is such a "Type A" area. It might also be that too many years have passed since DCUM parents went to college and they're misremembering.

I remember going to college, working hard and partying hard, having friends who did the same, then all of us going on to successful careers and lives. And I don't remember any of us ever having anything to do with professors outside of the classroom except in rare instances. While it's true that none of us got PhD's, virtually all of us went to grad school, med school, or law school.

I graduated from a NESCAC LAC and had a lot of contact with certain professors during my time there, particularly in my majors departments. I went to dinner at professors' houses occasionally and had meals with them from time to time. I also visited during office hours to discuss classwork as well as other things (e.g. grad school options).

After graduating, I worked for five years and then applied to law schools. It was easy to get recommendations from these professors who knew me very well.

I am 60 years old now, and still in touch with two professors. I visited one of them at his senior community when I was in New England a few years ago.

I treasure those relationships.

Professor recommendations have very little impact on law school admissions. The process is almost entirely numbers driven.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do think that a poll of college students would show that the large majority never or virtually never have any contact with the large majority of professors outside of the classroom. Why do folks on this board think that extensive contact with professors outside of the classroom is so critically important when the evidence is to the contrary? Not trying to be snarky; I am genuinely curious.

What might be going on, I think, is that that was the experience of more DCUM parents than the average college graduate because this is such a "Type A" area. It might also be that too many years have passed since DCUM parents went to college and they're misremembering.

I remember going to college, working hard and partying hard, having friends who did the same, then all of us going on to successful careers and lives. And I don't remember any of us ever having anything to do with professors outside of the classroom except in rare instances. While it's true that none of us got PhD's, virtually all of us went to grad school, med school, or law school.

DH and I have never been accused of being Type A, though I'll admit we've lived in DC for so long that maybe we just take the Type A stuff for granted. In any case. we went to very different undergrad institutions -- a New England SLAC and a big rah-rah midwestern school, then met at law school. We did a fair amount of partying at all these institutions of higher learning (though I'm happy to give DH the summa honors in this field). And maybe you're right that we're misremembering our own bright college days, but over the past 10 years, we've seen our three kids go off to college and grad school. Among them, they've been to two SLACs, one big private research university, one law school and one med school. So, while I don't have a big data set here, I do have some recent and current anecdotal examples. (See -- I'm not even calling it evidence, so don't get your back up).

And, here's what I can tell you. All of us got to know a few profs at all of these schools. I mean -- why not? They're smart people and a lot of them are nice, interesting people who want to help their students. Did this help us academically and professionally? In some cases, yeah, absolutely. Has it led to nice friendships, some of which have lasted decades? Again, yes. Doing this never seemed odd to us or like we were sucking up. I will note, though, that DH might have been more open to finding mentors and making friends with profs because his dad was a prof (at the same big rah-rah midwestern university that he attended). And, one of my BILs is a prof, so that might have made our own kids more comfortable with approaching profs.

So, while I can't say conclusively that all students can improve their chances of academic and professional success by getting to know profs, I don't see what the down side is either. And I can't for the life of me figure out why people who didn't get to know profs are so fixed on the idea that it's some kind of con to suggest to kids that they can ask a prof for help or advice if they need it.

Finally, in my own experience, one of the best opportunities I got out of getting to know a prof was living rent-free in a fabulous San Francisco apartment for three months. Yes, I had to take care of the prof's very needy basset hound, but as she (prof, not hound) hopped into the cab taking her to the airport, she yelled, "There's a bottle of vodka in the crisper drawer of the 'frig and it's all yours." (She was my Russian history, prof, BTW, and was totally awesome and cool.)

Let’s see. You and your husband are both lawyers. And you just wrote an exegesis on the value of contact with professors on a college discussion board. And your kids are already out of college and in med and law school.

But, no, you’re not Type A. No, not at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do think that a poll of college students would show that the large majority never or virtually never have any contact with the large majority of professors outside of the classroom. Why do folks on this board think that extensive contact with professors outside of the classroom is so critically important when the evidence is to the contrary? Not trying to be snarky; I am genuinely curious.

What might be going on, I think, is that that was the experience of more DCUM parents than the average college graduate because this is such a "Type A" area. It might also be that too many years have passed since DCUM parents went to college and they're misremembering.

I remember going to college, working hard and partying hard, having friends who did the same, then all of us going on to successful careers and lives. And I don't remember any of us ever having anything to do with professors outside of the classroom except in rare instances. While it's true that none of us got PhD's, virtually all of us went to grad school, med school, or law school.

I graduated from a NESCAC LAC and had a lot of contact with certain professors during my time there, particularly in my majors departments. I went to dinner at professors' houses occasionally and had meals with them from time to time. I also visited during office hours to discuss classwork as well as other things (e.g. grad school options).

After graduating, I worked for five years and then applied to law schools. It was easy to get recommendations from these professors who knew me very well.

I am 60 years old now, and still in touch with two professors. I visited one of them at his senior community when I was in New England a few years ago.

I treasure those relationships.

Professor recommendations have very little impact on law school admissions. The process is almost entirely numbers driven.

Ok. And?

That is your takeaway from this post?