I seemed to have missed the memo to "marry rich"

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:OP, I hear you. My family is not like this, but I have friends who are. Honestly, I don’t care who people marry or what the prioritize when they look for a mate. None of my business.

What is my business is when some of these women who married rich on purpose want to lecture me or anyone about feminism. Do what you want ladies, but hitching your wagon to some rich guy so that you don’t have to worry about money is not a feminist choice. It perpetuates a lot of structures that hold women back. Oh, and if that dude is white and you’re white and your kids are white… congrats, you are also helping perpetuate white supremacy. So maybe to e down the Facebook posts about what a devout feminist you are?

None of it is your business. Who people marry, their views on feminism…not your business. Nothing about this promotes white supremacy either. Your should really try to become a more intelligent person.

1) Feminism is political, and politics are everyone's business.
2) Anyone who goes around being vocal about their views on feminism should be ready to account for their own choices, but especially wealthy white women. It is so common for rich white laides to be very ra-ra feminist when they want people to be nice to them or they want to claim victimhood.

The person who quote Mikki Kendall upthread is spot on. You can claim you're a feminist all you want, but if your entire lifestyle and the well being of your children relies on your white husband's high income and the cheap labor of women of color, your feminism is nothing but a social media brand.

So now white women need to pass some test with you if they simply hold the belief that women and men deserve equal opportunities? Exactly which very specific way do we have to live and move through the world to not have the fault of all that is wrong with America at our feet? And I'm very confused about the "entire lifestyle depends on cheap labor of women of color" comment. Could you expound upon that?

NP here - absolutely. Our kids had a POC nanny and POC preschool teachers and I get weekly cleaning by other POC. My saving grace is that I am POC myself and pay them living wages, because I get it and I'm successful because of them. I cringe when I hear women expecting nannies to work for $20/hour and care for 3 small kids, so the moms can work and play feminists. For starters, I think paying living wages would be a great thing.

I was under the impression that PP was arguing against SAH with her argument. I had a PT nanny whose children were already out of the home, but I paid her 75% of my salary then decided to SAH because it was silly to do that. But really, do you think she was happy to lose her $28/hr gig? It's complex. It's not like my friend's nanny would otherwise be making 6-figures in another profession if white people stopped employing her. If suddenly white families only wanted to hire white women to do the nannying, cleaning, etc that would be insane. What is the solution? Oh right, not hating on other women and recognizing that the men are all laughing at the top while we call each other Karen and argue about if we're self loathing enough.

I am the PP and you are projecting. I don’t have an opinion on being a SAHM. That’s a personal choice that has nothing to do with me. I am talking about the way white women rely on women if color to perform what they deem to be low status work (childcare, housework, etc.) while then presenting themselves to their mostly white friendships as feminists.

A lot of wealthy white wines cannot even see the women all around them all the time who are working for poverty wages while doing work that enriches the lives of these who’re women and their families. And then these same white women will encounter some sexism at work or in the media that impacts THEM, and suddenly they are quoting Steinem and talking about equality. These women are not engaged in movement feminism on any level. They just like using feminism as a tool for reinforcing their privilege when convenient.

I'm curious what they might do as a solution? Stop hiring these people? I'm pretty sure they don't want to lose their jobs/clients. I think the fault lies with the patriarchy and capitalism and we are all doing what we can in our limited spheres (you know, assuming you're not a trumper nazi). I don't have any domestic help and I'm not wealthy, but I don't even think there would be a way for them to cut the daycare an extra check, pay the cleaning company more than they're billed for, etc. And you might be forgetting that if they tried to talk to the owners of these companies, they'd get dismissed because, yes, they are women. This attitude of "we have it worse and you're not prioritizing US" is bonkers. Most white women in DC are liberal and vote for people who they hope will implement policies to help WOC. I don't know any actually rich people that pay their nanny only $20/hr, even for one kid. They all make $30/hr+ benefits which is $75k/year. That's not much less than I currently make.

I find it hard to believe that you have actually witnessed in your own life outside of social media a rich white woman paying her nanny $15/hr and then turning around and quoting steinem. The only person I know in real life who quotes steinem also gives a f***ton of money to Planned Parenthood and her local food bank. Like, a LOT. But you wouldn't know that about her because I'm very close to her and she's private. White women have the privilege of being white, but that doesn't mean we aren't also oppressed by men (/the patriarchy). I mean, if white women were as all powerful as you claim, Hillary Clinton would be president. She was 100% brought down by misogyny despite outsmarting, outclassing, outEVERYTHING her opponent. And now it's totally acceptable and effective to silence any and every white woman by calling her a Karen. It's the same thing as saying "you are useless, Feminism isn't a tool we weaponize, we are truly trying. We can't get there in one summer, but if you beat us down then we will never make it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous[b wrote:]My grandmother told me when I was like 10 (and many times after) “it’s just as easy to love a rich man as it is to love a poor one.”[/b]

My mom (her daughter) dropped out of college and married someone blue collar and my parents always struggled. I made up my mind early I wasn’t doing that. We aren’t rich, but are more than comfortable.

My grandma used to say the same thing to me. When I was younger I laughed and never took her seriously, even when I married DH. DH grew up poor and I supported him through finishing his undergrad degree. Now he is doing well (we are not dcum rich but we have everything we need and he makes a lot of money compared to most Americans. We are stable and don’t have to stress over finances much, I can stay home with our kids)

I now see the wisdom in her words. Having money makes life easier. I lucked out and I know that but, when I was young, I don’t think I fully realized how much harder life is when you are poor.

[Anonymous]

I don’t know that this has to be gendered. I have all boys and while I just hope they find love and a successful partnership when they are adults, there is no doubt that marrying someone from a well off family will make life easier and marriage less stressful. I do hope they marry rich or umc if I’m being completely honest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Every woman I know, in my immediate family and friends has married someone who makes substantially more than her. As a result, many years in, she lives a wonderful life where she is financially better off even if she is not working or a SAHM.

It can't really be a coincidence that...everyone I know did this. I would have had no idea how to, as I never screened dates for how much money they made or something.

Whatever happed to feminism and self-sufficiency?

Why do you care? You made your choices and they made theirs. Do their choices impact you in any way?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I didn't marry rich, and still, many years in, I live a wonderful life where I am financially better off even if I am not working.

Still I chose to work, contribute to our HHI, which enables my spouse to also be financially better off. Maybe you need a bigger circle.

Samesies. Not sure if OP is a.troll, but most married women I know WOH full time and have a.comfortable lifestyle, rich or not. I work for a non-profit and my DH is a public school teacher and yet we have a (relative to our incomes) high net worth and nice lifestyle. I think it has more to do with two living as cheaply as one, marrying someone mature and
disciplined, and being able to save and not spend frivously. Also, isn't the average HHI for families in the US $64k? Not everyone is wealthy. Maybe OP needs to meet more couples from other walks of life.

[Anonymous]

Women like OP are happier when they work out of the home, IME. They may be stressed, but there are stressors both in and out of the home, so same difference.

Some less motivated and/or anxiety stricken women are led to believe that there are additional stressors from working outside of the home - but any of that is superseded by a true sense of purpose and usefulness, and their own paycheck (pride) - and less time to take part in self destructive behaviors, such as wallowing (OP) and gossiping (PTA moms).

OP, you have too much time on your hands.

[Anonymous]

Not to mention the H won’t dump on you AS MUCH if you both work full time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Women like OP are happier when they work out of the home, IME. They may be stressed, but there are stressors both in and out of the home, so same difference.

Some less motivated and/or anxiety stricken women are led to believe that there are additional stressors from working outside of the home - but any of that is superseded by a true sense of purpose and usefulness, and their own paycheck (pride) - and less time to take part in self destructive behaviors, such as wallowing (OP) and gossiping (PTA moms).

OP, you have too much time on your hands.

I have always worked. My parents raised all of us to always be self-sufficient and never rely 100% on anyone else, always keep a foot in the workplace.

I did not purposely seek a 'rich man'. I dated a few guys in my 20s that certainly were not on track to ever have a lucrative job, one was a drop-out bartender from my HS. But, I always was attracted to innately smart and witty people. I was self-motivated. I met my spouse when we were 26 and I ostensibly made more $. He was brilliant and good-looking with a degree from a top university and very ambitious--as well as hilarious, fit, etc. Within 2 years of meeting him, he left his job (right before our wedding!!) and went out on his own and that hit the payday big time. Even though he has always made a lot of $$, 23 years later I am still working making a good salary. My career had flexibility for our kids (WAH since they were born) and after years of travel and round the clock work, spouse was able to never travel again for work when we decided to have kids 7 years into marriage.

A lot of people that are wealthy later in life did not come from $ or have it when they met. That was certainly us and frankly I never could have imagined the lifestyle I now have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know that this has to be gendered. I have all boys and while I just hope they find love and a successful partnership when they are adults, there is no doubt that marrying someone from a well off family will make life easier and marriage less stressful. I do hope they marry rich or umc if I’m being completely honest.

I didn’t marry someone (dated for 2 years) from a well off family because I didn’t want that drama. I am wealthy, very easy going and married someone that is smart and drop dead gorgeous. She made really good money for her age, she didn’t finish college because she was in hospital for her whole junior year and needed to work to pay medical bills, came from a very poor family. Now she is a SAHM, great person, still smart and gorgeous.

The idea that a well off family is less stressful is naive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know that this has to be gendered. I have all boys and while I just hope they find love and a successful partnership when they are adults, there is no doubt that marrying someone from a well off family will make life easier and marriage less stressful. I do hope they marry rich or umc if I’m being completely honest.

It doesn't always. I come from an UMC background, whose parents came from nothing and built an impressive life for their family. I married a guy whose parents came from money, then turned that money into lots more money. They do not impress me in the least. But boy does the lopsidedness in our wealth make me miserable. Other than loving my kids more than I could imagine, if I had to do it over, I would not marry someone with so much more wealth than me again. I actually resent him greatly and I really really hate his family. It's awful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know that this has to be gendered. I have all boys and while I just hope they find love and a successful partnership when they are adults, there is no doubt that marrying someone from a well off family will make life easier and marriage less stressful. I do hope they marry rich or umc if I’m being completely honest.

It doesn't always. I come from an UMC background, whose parents came from nothing and built an impressive life for their family. I married a guy whose parents came from money, then turned that money into lots more money. They do not impress me in the least. But boy does the lopsidedness in our wealth make me miserable. Other than loving my kids more than I could imagine, if I had to do it over, I would not marry someone with so much more wealth than me again. I actually resent him greatly and I really really hate his family. It's awful.

+1

That's just it - do these people know what they are getting into? SO many strings! No thanks.

[Anonymous]

It is an interesting phenomena. Many women do have a filtering process that allows them to weed out potential mates and focus on the more economically attractive ones. Some may call it gold digging, but I suspect it's more a quiet persuasion inside the mind to seek out certain types of partners and training yourself to fall in love with that person rather than any love at first sight overriding all other senses.

Put it this way, there's a reason why it's rare for a woman raised and educated in the upper middle classes to end up marrying a low skilled working class man. That's mostly stuff of fiction, not reality.

I see it happen two ways.

1) marrying successful man (usually finance/corporate) aiming for the conventional upper middle class lifestyle of breadwinning father and mother who SAHM or works at a low key, low stress job or a creative position.

2) successful woman (in the professions) marrying an equally successful man. Doctor marrying doctor or lawyer marrying lawyer. Or doctor marrying lawyer.

There's no question that marrying well really does improve the odds of a successful and comfortable life.

[Anonymous]

Funny, my grandmother said “marry for money, earn every penny”. I’ve definitely seen this to be true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know that this has to be gendered. I have all boys and while I just hope they find love and a successful partnership when they are adults, there is no doubt that marrying someone from a well off family will make life easier and marriage less stressful. I do hope they marry rich or umc if I’m being completely honest.

It doesn't always. I come from an UMC background, whose parents came from nothing and built an impressive life for their family. I married a guy whose parents came from money, then turned that money into lots more money. They do not impress me in the least. But boy does the lopsidedness in our wealth make me miserable. Other than loving my kids more than I could imagine, if I had to do it over, I would not marry someone with so much more wealth than me again. I actually resent him greatly and I really really hate his family. It's awful.

Do they treat you badly for not coming from money?

[Anonymous]

So many people responding defensively because while they may have married for love, they also married folks who were ambitious, hard-working, etc and don’t mention that they first knew that through proxies like educational background or employment. So you were looking for markers of financial success. And don’t mention the people you dated, the point is you made a choice to marry someone likely to be financially successful. It’s completely delusional to pretend you didn’t screen for proxies of wealth.

Also ridiculous that everyone thinks their success is due to their own hard work, not the opportunities they had that were about the family they were born into.

I work FT and make $200K, married to a big law partner, and would absolutely tell my three girls to care about the potential earning power of their future partners. Because women, even women like me who went to better school and have better pedigrees and initially out earned their partners, have their careers and earning power suffer when they have children. If that is likely going to happen, you should at least marry someone who can make the kind of $$ you would have made without kids.