MS Magnet admissions: are CES students at a disadvantage?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting document. I guess they determine if you have a cohort based on "receives enrichment/acceleration". the document says they are blinded to school and thus why CES students are affected more than non-CES.

This is beyond backwards. Is there any word on whether they have changed their admission process this year to make sure CES kids are not at a disadvantage?

CES kids aren't at a disadvantage. Because CES students received greater enrichment they should have higher map scores than kids who did not attend CES.

Maybe, but they also had top MAP and COGAT scores to get in in the first place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting document. I guess they determine if you have a cohort based on "receives enrichment/acceleration". the document says they are blinded to school and thus why CES students are affected more than non-CES.

This is beyond backwards. Is there any word on whether they have changed their admission process this year to make sure CES kids are not at a disadvantage?

CES kids aren't at a disadvantage. Because CES students received greater enrichment they should have higher map scores than kids who did not attend CES.

And if all that extra enrichment fails translate into higher scores then its probably a waste to send a kid to a magnet anyway.

What happened last year is kids from CES schools were passed over for kids with lower scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting document. I guess they determine if you have a cohort based on "receives enrichment/acceleration". the document says they are blinded to school and thus why CES students are affected more than non-CES.

This is beyond backwards. Is there any word on whether they have changed their admission process this year to make sure CES kids are not at a disadvantage?

CES kids aren't at a disadvantage. Because CES students received greater enrichment they should have higher map scores than kids who did not attend CES.

And if all that extra enrichment fails translate into higher scores then its probably a waste to send a kid to a magnet anyway.

What happened last year is kids from CES schools were passed over for kids with lower scores.

Kids from CES schools were not passed over for kids with lower scores. There are just a limited number of slots and with universal screening, things got a lot more competitive. This upset many parents who could no longer game the system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting document. I guess they determine if you have a cohort based on "receives enrichment/acceleration". the document says they are blinded to school and thus why CES students are affected more than non-CES.

This is beyond backwards. Is there any word on whether they have changed their admission process this year to make sure CES kids are not at a disadvantage?

CES kids aren't at a disadvantage. Because CES students received greater enrichment they should have higher map scores than kids who did not attend CES.

And if all that extra enrichment fails translate into higher scores then its probably a waste to send a kid to a magnet anyway.

What happened last year is kids from CES schools were passed over for kids with lower scores.

Kids from CES schools were not passed over for kids with lower scores. There are just a limited number of slots and with universal screening, things got a lot more competitive. This upset many parents who could no longer game the system.

Are you tone death? Have you not attended meetings and read the documents online? Indeed kids who had higher scores were passed over, as they had cohorts in their local middle school. The county is moving to a system where if one is an outlier then they are selected. Not saying the kids selected were not highly abled, but a 99% in at Frost/Cabin John/Hoover will get passed over for a 90% kid from a MS that was lower performing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting document. I guess they determine if you have a cohort based on "receives enrichment/acceleration". the document says they are blinded to school and thus why CES students are affected more than non-CES.

This is beyond backwards. Is there any word on whether they have changed their admission process this year to make sure CES kids are not at a disadvantage?

CES kids aren't at a disadvantage. Because CES students received greater enrichment they should have higher map scores than kids who did not attend CES.

And if all that extra enrichment fails translate into higher scores then its probably a waste to send a kid to a magnet anyway.

What happened last year is kids from CES schools were passed over for kids with lower scores.

Kids from CES schools were not passed over for kids with lower scores. There are just a limited number of slots and with universal screening, things got a lot more competitive. This upset many parents who could no longer game the system.

The last paragraph is factually inaccurate

[Anonymous]

Last year's 5th Grade cohort had every reason to gripe. It felt like MCPS changed the rules in the middle of the game. The pilot program introduced a different set of criteria for admission, but the presentation of that criteria was very opaque. In part, this was because MCPS wasn't sure how it would go. But it was also because MCPS was not brave enough to share the outlier theory with a bunch of hyper-engaged parents before they implemented the theory.

This year, however, it's clear. Unless the CES kid is an outlier at their home middle school, they will likely be returning to the home middle school to attend enriched classes.

This is reality. If it is not a tolerable one, MCPS families can (1) attend private school, (2) home school, (3) move .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Last year's 5th Grade cohort had every reason to gripe. It felt like MCPS changed the rules in the middle of the game. The pilot program introduced a different set of criteria for admission, but the presentation of that criteria was very opaque. In part, this was because MCPS wasn't sure how it would go. But it was also because MCPS was not brave enough to share the outlier theory with a bunch of hyper-engaged parents before they implemented the theory.

This year, however, it's clear. Unless the CES kid is an outlier at their home middle school, they will likely be returning to the home middle school to attend enriched classes.

This is reality. If it is not a tolerable one, MCPS families can (1) attend private school, (2) home school, (3) move .

(4) Vote (5) Write letters to express opinion

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Last year's 5th Grade cohort had every reason to gripe. It felt like MCPS changed the rules in the middle of the game. The pilot program introduced a different set of criteria for admission, but the presentation of that criteria was very opaque. In part, this was because MCPS wasn't sure how it would go. But it was also because MCPS was not brave enough to share the outlier theory with a bunch of hyper-engaged parents before they implemented the theory.

This year, however, it's clear. Unless the CES kid is an outlier at their home middle school, they will likely be returning to the home middle school to attend enriched classes.

This is reality. If it is not a tolerable one, MCPS families can (1) attend private school, (2) home school, (3) move .

(4) Vote (5) Write letters to express opinion

4 and 5 won't make a difference. Most parents do not care about these types of issues. As a "hyper-engaged" parent, I attended the community meeting at Blair about MCPS-wide changes to high school programs and noted that most parents are not concerned about magnet programs. They want their kids to have appropriate/interesting/beneficial/safe programs at their local high school. The last board election should have also made that clear.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Last year's 5th Grade cohort had every reason to gripe. It felt like MCPS changed the rules in the middle of the game. The pilot program introduced a different set of criteria for admission, but the presentation of that criteria was very opaque. In part, this was because MCPS wasn't sure how it would go. But it was also because MCPS was not brave enough to share the outlier theory with a bunch of hyper-engaged parents before they implemented the theory.

This year, however, it's clear. Unless the CES kid is an outlier at their home middle school, they will likely be returning to the home middle school to attend enriched classes.

This is reality. If it is not a tolerable one, MCPS families can (1) attend private school, (2) home school, (3) move .

MCpS had a clear goal last year in ms magnet selection process, which was to reduce the number of Asian students in the program. Whatever criteria they used, as long as they fit they goal, would be considered. Laws only forbid using race as a selection criteria. The end results of the new selection were more white and hispanic in MS magnets.students. Most Asian families are immogrants so they dont know to fight for their children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Last year's 5th Grade cohort had every reason to gripe. It felt like MCPS changed the rules in the middle of the game. The pilot program introduced a different set of criteria for admission, but the presentation of that criteria was very opaque. In part, this was because MCPS wasn't sure how it would go. But it was also because MCPS was not brave enough to share the outlier theory with a bunch of hyper-engaged parents before they implemented the theory.

This year, however, it's clear. Unless the CES kid is an outlier at their home middle school, they will likely be returning to the home middle school to attend enriched classes.

This is reality. If it is not a tolerable one, MCPS families can (1) attend private school, (2) home school, (3) move .

Message received

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Last year's 5th Grade cohort had every reason to gripe. It felt like MCPS changed the rules in the middle of the game. The pilot program introduced a different set of criteria for admission, but the presentation of that criteria was very opaque. In part, this was because MCPS wasn't sure how it would go. But it was also because MCPS was not brave enough to share the outlier theory with a bunch of hyper-engaged parents before they implemented the theory.

This year, however, it's clear. Unless the CES kid is an outlier at their home middle school, they will likely be returning to the home middle school to attend enriched classes.

This is reality. If it is not a tolerable one, MCPS families can (1) attend private school, (2) home school, (3) move .

Message received

They were clear in the fall of 2017 that one factor would be whether there was an academic peer group of at least 20 at home MS. The purpose of magnet schools is to group students who need a higher level of academics than provided at their home schools. If there are enough students at a single middle school to permit higher level classes AND those classes are taught by qualified instructors, great. The "enriched classes" are serving oh, maybe 1000 or more students almost all of whom would have had nothing under the prior system. This is in addition to the 225 students at TPMS/Eastern.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Last year's 5th Grade cohort had every reason to gripe. It felt like MCPS changed the rules in the middle of the game. The pilot program introduced a different set of criteria for admission, but the presentation of that criteria was very opaque. In part, this was because MCPS wasn't sure how it would go. But it was also because MCPS was not brave enough to share the outlier theory with a bunch of hyper-engaged parents before they implemented the theory.

This year, however, it's clear. Unless the CES kid is an outlier at their home middle school, they will likely be returning to the home middle school to attend enriched classes.

This is reality. If it is not a tolerable one, MCPS families can (1) attend private school, (2) home school, (3) move .

Message received

They were clear in the fall of 2017 that one factor would be whether there was an academic peer group of at least 20 at home MS. The purpose of magnet schools is to group students who need a higher level of academics than provided at their home schools. If there are enough students at a single middle school to permit higher level classes AND those classes are taught by qualified instructors, great. The "enriched classes" are serving oh, maybe 1000 or more students almost all of whom would have had nothing under the prior system. This is in addition to the 225 students at TPMS/Eastern.

It looks like there were at least 20 "highly able" students in every middle school last year so why didn't they just do the enriched classes for all middle schools instead of discriminating against kids in high performing school clusters?

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/schools/msmagnet/about/MS%20Magnet%20Field%20Test%20Data%20by%20Sending%20MS.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Last year's 5th Grade cohort had every reason to gripe. It felt like MCPS changed the rules in the middle of the game. The pilot program introduced a different set of criteria for admission, but the presentation of that criteria was very opaque. In part, this was because MCPS wasn't sure how it would go. But it was also because MCPS was not brave enough to share the outlier theory with a bunch of hyper-engaged parents before they implemented the theory.

This year, however, it's clear. Unless the CES kid is an outlier at their home middle school, they will likely be returning to the home middle school to attend enriched classes.

This is reality. If it is not a tolerable one, MCPS families can (1) attend private school, (2) home school, (3) move .

Message received

They were clear in the fall of 2017 that one factor would be whether there was an academic peer group of at least 20 at home MS. The purpose of magnet schools is to group students who need a higher level of academics than provided at their home schools. If there are enough students at a single middle school to permit higher level classes AND those classes are taught by qualified instructors, great. The "enriched classes" are serving oh, maybe 1000 or more students almost all of whom would have had nothing under the prior system. This is in addition to the 225 students at TPMS/Eastern.

Prior to this year was MCPS offering any "tracked" MS classes? Were there "honors" classes and regular classes? It seems like MCPS realized that their "cohort" explanation was going to be revealed as complete BS since the 20+ kids that make up that "cohort" would be split up over 5+ different classes, and only have a few in each class - not enough to allow for an enriched curriculum. So, then they rolled out the magnet-like classes, and only offered them to those identified in the process, so that the "cohort" would actually have a class together that could be enriched. Basically, it doesn't really seem like they thought it through before hand. But on the positive side, there are one or two classes in which that cohort will be together at the home MS, which is better for more kids than what they had before.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

MCpS had a clear goal last year in ms magnet selection process, which was to reduce the number of Asian students in the program. Whatever criteria they used, as long as they fit they goal, would be considered. Laws only forbid using race as a selection criteria. The end results of the new selection were more white and hispanic in MS magnets.students. Most Asian families are immogrants so they dont know to fight for their children.

In that case, a lawsuit should be a slam-dunk. In fact, I kept reading on DCUM last year that there was going to be a lawsuit, which was going to be slam-dunk. But apparently there never was a lawsuit. What happened to the lawsuit?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

MCpS had a clear goal last year in ms magnet selection process, which was to reduce the number of Asian students in the program. Whatever criteria they used, as long as they fit they goal, would be considered. Laws only forbid using race as a selection criteria. The end results of the new selection were more white and hispanic in MS magnets.students. Most Asian families are immogrants so they dont know to fight for their children.

In that case, a lawsuit should be a slam-dunk. In fact, I kept reading on DCUM last year that there was going to be a lawsuit, which was going to be slam-dunk. But apparently there never was a lawsuit. What happened to the lawsuit?

"...and boom goes the dynamite!"