MS Magnet admissions: are CES students at a disadvantage?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Last year's 5th Grade cohort had every reason to gripe. It felt like MCPS changed the rules in the middle of the game. The pilot program introduced a different set of criteria for admission, but the presentation of that criteria was very opaque. In part, this was because MCPS wasn't sure how it would go. But it was also because MCPS was not brave enough to share the outlier theory with a bunch of hyper-engaged parents before they implemented the theory.

This year, however, it's clear. Unless the CES kid is an outlier at their home middle school, they will likely be returning to the home middle school to attend enriched classes.

This is reality. If it is not a tolerable one, MCPS families can (1) attend private school, (2) home school, (3) move .

Message received

They were clear in the fall of 2017 that one factor would be whether there was an academic peer group of at least 20 at home MS. The purpose of magnet schools is to group students who need a higher level of academics than provided at their home schools. If there are enough students at a single middle school to permit higher level classes AND those classes are taught by qualified instructors, great. The "enriched classes" are serving oh, maybe 1000 or more students almost all of whom would have had nothing under the prior system. This is in addition to the 225 students at TPMS/Eastern.

Well, first of all not EVERY school had at least 20 kids. Westland didn't, for example. Several other schools would drop below 20 if even just 2 kids were accepted to TPMS or Eastern. I do think that MCPS is trying to get more enrichment into home schools and reserve the magnets for kids who wouldn't have a peer cohort, but I don't think that chart conveys the information you believe it is conveying.
It looks like there were at least 20 "highly able" students in every middle school last year so why didn't they just do the enriched classes for all middle schools instead of discriminating against kids in high performing school clusters?

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/schools/msmagnet/about/MS%20Magnet%20Field%20Test%20Data%20by%20Sending%20MS.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:[q

Well, first of all not EVERY school had at least 20 kids. Westland didn't, for example. Several other schools would drop below 20 if even just 2 kids were accepted to TPMS or Eastern. I do think that MCPS is trying to get more enrichment into home schools and reserve the magnets for kids who wouldn't have a peer cohort, but I don't think that chart conveys the information you believe it is conveying.
It looks like there were at least 20 "highly able" students in every middle school last year so why didn't they just do the enriched classes for all middle schools instead of discriminating against kids in high performing school clusters?

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/schools/msmagnet/about/MS%20Magnet%20Field%20Test%20Data%20by%20Sending%20MS.pdf

Good news! They did! (For all of the middle-schools in the downcounty Eastern/TPMS zone, that is.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Last year's 5th Grade cohort had every reason to gripe. It felt like MCPS changed the rules in the middle of the game. The pilot program introduced a different set of criteria for admission, but the presentation of that criteria was very opaque. In part, this was because MCPS wasn't sure how it would go. But it was also because MCPS was not brave enough to share the outlier theory with a bunch of hyper-engaged parents before they implemented the theory.

This year, however, it's clear. Unless the CES kid is an outlier at their home middle school, they will likely be returning to the home middle school to attend enriched classes.

This is reality. If it is not a tolerable one, MCPS families can (1) attend private school, (2) home school, (3) move .

MCpS had a clear goal last year in ms magnet selection process, which was to reduce the number of Asian students in the program. Whatever criteria they used, as long as they fit they goal, would be considered. Laws only forbid using race as a selection criteria. The end results of the new selection were more white and hispanic in MS magnets.students. Most Asian families are immogrants so they dont know to fight for their children.

I don't think reducing the number of Asians was their "goal" although it may have been a "result" of the changes they implemented to admissions. There is a difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Last year's 5th Grade cohort had every reason to gripe. It felt like MCPS changed the rules in the middle of the game. The pilot program introduced a different set of criteria for admission, but the presentation of that criteria was very opaque. In part, this was because MCPS wasn't sure how it would go. But it was also because MCPS was not brave enough to share the outlier theory with a bunch of hyper-engaged parents before they implemented the theory.

This year, however, it's clear. Unless the CES kid is an outlier at their home middle school, they will likely be returning to the home middle school to attend enriched classes.

This is reality. If it is not a tolerable one, MCPS families can (1) attend private school, (2) home school, (3) move .

Message received

They were clear in the fall of 2017 that one factor would be whether there was an academic peer group of at least 20 at home MS. The purpose of magnet schools is to group students who need a higher level of academics than provided at their home schools. If there are enough students at a single middle school to permit higher level classes AND those classes are taught by qualified instructors, great. The "enriched classes" are serving oh, maybe 1000 or more students almost all of whom would have had nothing under the prior system. This is in addition to the 225 students at TPMS/Eastern.

It looks like there were at least 20 "highly able" students in every middle school last year so why didn't they just do the enriched classes for all middle schools instead of discriminating against kids in high performing school clusters?

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/schools/msmagnet/about/MS%20Magnet%20Field%20Test%20Data%20by%20Sending%20MS.pdf

UGH. Screwed up formatting. Here it is:

Well, first of all not EVERY school had at least 20 kids. Westland didn't, for example. Several other schools would drop below 20 if even just 2 kids were accepted to TPMS or Eastern. I do think that MCPS is trying to get more enrichment into home schools and reserve the magnets for kids who wouldn't have a peer cohort, but I don't think that chart conveys the information you believe it is conveying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Last year's 5th Grade cohort had every reason to gripe. It felt like MCPS changed the rules in the middle of the game. The pilot program introduced a different set of criteria for admission, but the presentation of that criteria was very opaque. In part, this was because MCPS wasn't sure how it would go. But it was also because MCPS was not brave enough to share the outlier theory with a bunch of hyper-engaged parents before they implemented the theory.

This year, however, it's clear. Unless the CES kid is an outlier at their home middle school, they will likely be returning to the home middle school to attend enriched classes.

This is reality. If it is not a tolerable one, MCPS families can (1) attend private school, (2) home school, (3) move .

MCpS had a clear goal last year in ms magnet selection process, which was to reduce the number of Asian students in the program. Whatever criteria they used, as long as they fit they goal, would be considered. Laws only forbid using race as a selection criteria. The end results of the new selection were more white and hispanic in MS magnets.students. Most Asian families are immogrants so they dont know to fight for their children.

I don't think reducing the number of Asians was their "goal" although it may have been a "result" of the changes they implemented to admissions. There is a difference.

+1 I would even argue that the new policy will HELP Asian American applicants who are outside of highly segregated schools. The folks who got "dinged" by the new process are the ones in economically and racially segregated schools. If you are not in one of those zones, the new policy can only help, and we know from the data that there are more Asians outside Bethesda/Potomac than there are in those zones.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Last year's 5th Grade cohort had every reason to gripe. It felt like MCPS changed the rules in the middle of the game. The pilot program introduced a different set of criteria for admission, but the presentation of that criteria was very opaque. In part, this was because MCPS wasn't sure how it would go. But it was also because MCPS was not brave enough to share the outlier theory with a bunch of hyper-engaged parents before they implemented the theory.

This year, however, it's clear. Unless the CES kid is an outlier at their home middle school, they will likely be returning to the home middle school to attend enriched classes.

This is reality. If it is not a tolerable one, MCPS families can (1) attend private school, (2) home school, (3) move .

MCpS had a clear goal last year in ms magnet selection process, which was to reduce the number of Asian students in the program. Whatever criteria they used, as long as they fit they goal, would be considered. Laws only forbid using race as a selection criteria. The end results of the new selection were more white and hispanic in MS magnets.students. Most Asian families are immogrants so they dont know to fight for their children.

I don't think reducing the number of Asians was their "goal" although it may have been a "result" of the changes they implemented to admissions. There is a difference.

I get what MCPS is doing. I think it's a good thought to ensure kids who are outliers from lower performing school are getting proper enrichment. I get that geography was targeted, but at the same time, it seems questionable when the result end up affected a specific ethnic population.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Last year's 5th Grade cohort had every reason to gripe. It felt like MCPS changed the rules in the middle of the game. The pilot program introduced a different set of criteria for admission, but the presentation of that criteria was very opaque. In part, this was because MCPS wasn't sure how it would go. But it was also because MCPS was not brave enough to share the outlier theory with a bunch of hyper-engaged parents before they implemented the theory.

This year, however, it's clear. Unless the CES kid is an outlier at their home middle school, they will likely be returning to the home middle school to attend enriched classes.

This is reality. If it is not a tolerable one, MCPS families can (1) attend private school, (2) home school, (3) move .

MCpS had a clear goal last year in ms magnet selection process, which was to reduce the number of Asian students in the program. Whatever criteria they used, as long as they fit they goal, would be considered. Laws only forbid using race as a selection criteria. The end results of the new selection were more white and hispanic in MS magnets.students. Most Asian families are immogrants so they dont know to fight for their children.

I don't think reducing the number of Asians was their "goal" although it may have been a "result" of the changes they implemented to admissions. There is a difference.

+1 I would even argue that the new policy will HELP Asian American applicants who are outside of highly segregated schools. The folks who got "dinged" by the new process are the ones in economically and racially segregated schools. If you are not in one of those zones, the new policy can only help, and we know from the data that there are more Asians outside Bethesda/Potomac than there are in those zones.

I think in the long run it might. Most Asian-Americans I know in the Potomac/Bethesda area are not affluent. They are educated but made a lot of sacrifice to get their child in a specific location so that they have the opportunity to attend certain schools. Now that MCPS has changed the selection policy, these parents don't have to sacrifice financially to purchase homes in more "coveted" school areas. They can move Germantown, Silver Spring, Kensington, or anywhere east of I-270, and spend less money on real estate. It's really a win-win for Asian-American parents, but only in the longer run.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Last year's 5th Grade cohort had every reason to gripe. It felt like MCPS changed the rules in the middle of the game. The pilot program introduced a different set of criteria for admission, but the presentation of that criteria was very opaque. In part, this was because MCPS wasn't sure how it would go. But it was also because MCPS was not brave enough to share the outlier theory with a bunch of hyper-engaged parents before they implemented the theory.

This year, however, it's clear. Unless the CES kid is an outlier at their home middle school, they will likely be returning to the home middle school to attend enriched classes.

This is reality. If it is not a tolerable one, MCPS families can (1) attend private school, (2) home school, (3) move .

MCpS had a clear goal last year in ms magnet selection process, which was to reduce the number of Asian students in the program. Whatever criteria they used, as long as they fit they goal, would be considered. Laws only forbid using race as a selection criteria. The end results of the new selection were more white and hispanic in MS magnets.students. Most Asian families are immogrants so they dont know to fight for their children.

I don't think reducing the number of Asians was their "goal" although it may have been a "result" of the changes they implemented to admissions. There is a difference.

+1 I would even argue that the new policy will HELP Asian American applicants who are outside of highly segregated schools. The folks who got "dinged" by the new process are the ones in economically and racially segregated schools. If you are not in one of those zones, the new policy can only help, and we know from the data that there are more Asians outside Bethesda/Potomac than there are in those zones.

I think in the long run it might. Most Asian-Americans I know in the Potomac/Bethesda area are not affluent. They are educated but made a lot of sacrifice to get their child in a specific location so that they have the opportunity to attend certain schools. Now that MCPS has changed the selection policy, these parents don't have to sacrifice financially to purchase homes in more "coveted" school areas. They can move Germantown, Silver Spring, Kensington, or anywhere east of I-270, and spend less money on real estate. It's really a win-win for Asian-American parents, but only in the longer run.

If folks were being as savvy and self-sacrificing as you claim, they would live in-bounds for TPMS and access one of the extra seats set aside for those kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Last year's 5th Grade cohort had every reason to gripe. It felt like MCPS changed the rules in the middle of the game. The pilot program introduced a different set of criteria for admission, but the presentation of that criteria was very opaque. In part, this was because MCPS wasn't sure how it would go. But it was also because MCPS was not brave enough to share the outlier theory with a bunch of hyper-engaged parents before they implemented the theory.

This year, however, it's clear. Unless the CES kid is an outlier at their home middle school, they will likely be returning to the home middle school to attend enriched classes.

This is reality. If it is not a tolerable one, MCPS families can (1) attend private school, (2) home school, (3) move .

MCpS had a clear goal last year in ms magnet selection process, which was to reduce the number of Asian students in the program. Whatever criteria they used, as long as they fit they goal, would be considered. Laws only forbid using race as a selection criteria. The end results of the new selection were more white and hispanic in MS magnets.students. Most Asian families are immogrants so they dont know to fight for their children.

I don't think reducing the number of Asians was their "goal" although it may have been a "result" of the changes they implemented to admissions. There is a difference.

+1 I would even argue that the new policy will HELP Asian American applicants who are outside of highly segregated schools. The folks who got "dinged" by the new process are the ones in economically and racially segregated schools. If you are not in one of those zones, the new policy can only help, and we know from the data that there are more Asians outside Bethesda/Potomac than there are in those zones.

I think in the long run it might. Most Asian-Americans I know in the Potomac/Bethesda area are not affluent. They are educated but made a lot of sacrifice to get their child in a specific location so that they have the opportunity to attend certain schools. Now that MCPS has changed the selection policy, these parents don't have to sacrifice financially to purchase homes in more "coveted" school areas. They can move Germantown, Silver Spring, Kensington, or anywhere east of I-270, and spend less money on real estate. It's really a win-win for Asian-American parents, but only in the longer run.

Reducing the number of Asians was their goal although not explicitly stated. They sought to increase the number of black and Hispanic students in the magnets. Where did they think those numbers would come from since they didn't expand the number of spots sufficiently? Not the white group, which increased.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Reducing the number of Asians was their goal although not explicitly stated. They sought to increase the number of black and Hispanic students in the magnets. Where did they think those numbers would come from since they didn't expand the number of spots sufficiently? Not the white group, which increased.

If you have evidence of this, then you should file a lawsuit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Reducing the number of Asians was their goal although not explicitly stated. They sought to increase the number of black and Hispanic students in the magnets. Where did they think those numbers would come from since they didn't expand the number of spots sufficiently? Not the white group, which increased.

If you have evidence of this, then you should file a lawsuit.

the burden of proof would be much heavier than OJ's prosecution -

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Reducing the number of Asians was their goal although not explicitly stated. They sought to increase the number of black and Hispanic students in the magnets. Where did they think those numbers would come from since they didn't expand the number of spots sufficiently? Not the white group, which increased.

If you have evidence of this, then you should file a lawsuit.

They are all hoping some other schmuck asian parent will file it so they don't have to. That is why it is being pushed so hard.

[Anonymous]

Continue to advocate for more classes at your local middle school to provide more enrichment for the cohort of highly able learners. We should not be satisfied with 1 math and 1 history class. This is not the same as the magnet curriculum at either of the magnet schools.

[Anonymous]

Since they are switching the math curriculum next year will the “magnet” class stay?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting document. I guess they determine if you have a cohort based on "receives enrichment/acceleration". the document says they are blinded to school and thus why CES students are affected more than non-CES.

This is beyond backwards. Is there any word on whether they have changed their admission process this year to make sure CES kids are not at a disadvantage?

CES kids aren't at a disadvantage. Because CES students received greater enrichment they should have higher map scores than kids who did not attend CES.

And if all that extra enrichment fails translate into higher scores then its probably a waste to send a kid to a magnet anyway.

What happened last year is kids from CES schools were passed over for kids with lower scores.

This is factually inaccurate. With the advent of universal screening, admissions got a lot more competitive.