High Achieving Parent With Average/Below-Average Kids

[Anonymous]

I'm a Type A Ivy League grad with way too many degrees and at least one of my kids definitively is not. I joke that mine are the only kids in Bethesda who are not gifted and are not travel team all-stars or musical prodigies. I do worry about how to motivate my teenager to do well in life without trying to make him into something he's not (which wouldn't work anyway.)

The one thing I try to remember is that college acceptances really aren't an indicator of success in life. I grew up in a small town where approximately 2/3 of my classmates went to a mediocre state school or schools at an even lower tier (or no college at all.) Amazingly many of these same people make considerably more money than I do and appear to be happy, successful, and raising well-adjusted middle and upper-middle class families. They go to Europe and Disneyworld; their kids go to college and grad school.

And this isn't a case of people who somehow came into academic excellence in college - they were just reasonably smart, likeable, decent people with strong interpersonal skills who found their way into well-paying careers in sales, financial services, etc. My overpriced Chevy Chase teardown would fit into their basements. Sure, I had higher test scores and went to a bunch of elite universities. But who has the last laugh? (None of us actually, I'm reasonably satisfied too, but the point is that success is not a race you win in HS.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP - how much time do you spend with your kids? I agree w/pp who talk about balance and well adjusted people being more important than type "A" motivated high achievers. One thing I have noticed though is that the families that have the healthiest kids are those who do a lot together, spend time together. Not having a parent travel tons for business, eating meals together, that kind of thing. It matters. It helps with academic success too since that is what you seem to greatly care about. We read to our kids every single damn night. We didn't force additional homework on them but we saw their weaknesses academically (ie boy who couldn't focus well but didn't have ADHD/ADD so we asked him to write 5 sentences about anything he wanted for years 2-3x/weekly which really helped him) and we worked with them for an extra 15-20 min most nights for years. It's a lot of work. It's a lot of time but that's what having good and happy kids is about - you HAVE TO SPEND the time. It doesn't matter about anything else - all the trips, all the material things, it's getting to know them and creating that bond and helping them be as the pp said earlier, develop their sense of self. We never cared where they went to college though - we care about them being well rounded and academically not failing. I think it's super important to distinguish that. Professionally, I meet a lot of different folks from EAs to C level execs as a recruiter and the person that is well loved and good at what they do has nothing to do with academics. Adjust your own metrics for success. Just love your kids, be grateful they are good at some things - art, sports, that's so lucky to have kids like that - so many people who have talent in anything is rare. They won't be like you but they may be BETTER than you! Isn't that what you ultimately want?

I agree with this. Elementary school simply isn't that hard. I have four kids, one of whom has an average IQ. The others are very bright. It takes a bit more work to help him do well in school, but it is very possible. You have to identify your children's strengths and weaknesses and work with them. No one else is going to do it.

[Anonymous]

By the way, I might explore why the one is performing below average. I don't think you can "complain" about average, but I might look into how to help the one who is below average.
I had a lot of hemming and hawing about one of my kids, who had some inconsistent things going on in school (some aptitude test results very high, yet a below grade level DRA at one point, even though he was a good reader) - and I finally looked into it with a private psychoeducational eval, and he was diagnosed with ADHD. That diagnosis really helped us stopped spinning out wheels on how to help him. Prior to his diagnosis, I really didn't really understand ADHD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I absolutely understand and empathize.

Why so much hate from people on this board. OP hasn't said anything about the way he raises his kids or that these feelings are the dominant feelings he has about his kids. Any parent who has achieved a lot of academic and career success will, at least at some level, wish their kids to have academic success--among other talents. Doesn't everyone want the best for their kids?

The challenge is really how to sort through these wishes and feelings among a complex set of other feelings & wishes. I'm sure that OP's first and foremost feeling & wish is that the kids are loved, healthy and happy.

That being said--we can all talk about F500 execs or entrepreneurs who were late bloomers or didn't go to top schools, etc. but let's be realistic:

Top school alums make up a high proportion of very highly financially successful people...not a majority but a very high proportion. If you count ivy, stanford, mit, duke, uchicago, northwestern, amherst, williams, swarthmore, ucberkley, ucla, michigan, etc and look at both undergrad and/or grad students it's a very high percentage.

This. This is what matters at the end of the day. As much as everyone says "whatever makes them happy" -- they have been raised in a very cushy life with plenty of things, cars, vacations etc. -- I guarantee you ending up in a 85k job where you maybe get a driving vacation to a local beach every other year will NOT make them happy. So I don't get the hate from the other PPs. Sure there are those exceptions of -- my boss went to blah blah community college and is now a CEO. Great. But the closest thing in life to a 'guarantee' (and I realize there are no complete guarantees) is to get into one of those schools and study something marketable and start making good money young and investing. If you all don't want to push that -- fine -- but I do.

Almost everyone knows money isn't the end-all/be-all. There are plenty of people with money that are unhappy. However, this question is really for those that are successful financially: do you want your kids to be able live at least a similar lifestyle to the one you are raising them in? That's a problem that high-achievers face--it may be a good problem to have and I'm sure everyone is about to break out their "world's tiniest violin" and all but it is something high achievers think about if they actually care about their children--as opposed to the ones that want to show off how much they can spend.

Good schooling is something that leads to a higher chance of success--of course it doesn't guarantee it. Would you rather have your kids be mediocre and go to a school where the chance of financial success is far lower? All of you preachy types that say you want your kids to be happy--are you successfully financially (not that you may care at all). If you aren't then I totally get it. If you are and you don't care about your kids achieving then do you spend at a moderate lifestyle level? Or are you taking international vacations, etc in the name of "life experience" and "life learning" for your kids? Are they going to have the HHI when they grow up to be able to continue that lifestyle they have grown accustomed to? Think about it...

This. Yes I want my children to live in the manner they are accustomed, which requires significant income. If PPs who are acting holier than thou don't want that, that's great for them. But I know my kids, I know what will make them unhappy and for my kids -- they would not be happy on an 85k paycheck to paycheck lifestyle where they can't pick up and go on vacation tomorrow across the country or world bc they need to save up for a year first.

I don’t go to a top college. I make a LOT more than $85k per year. I expect A’s and B’s from my kids but have no particular preference about whether they go to a top school. I expect that they will also be high income.

The glaring problem with your analysis is that you acknowledge that most high income people didn’t go to top schools- so it doesn’t follow that if people don’t go to top schools, they won’t be successful. I also think going to a top school is most common among a certain social set, which for reasons that have nothing to do with their college choices, are more likely to be successful.

Depends on your definition of high income...if you are talking about $500k HHI then sure, dual income households can be successful getting there. To be honest, $400k - 500k is basically nearly entry level for combined HHI for two married NYC JD, MBA, or MD professionals. But if you are talking net worths of $10m+ that's another ballgame--that population is over indexed to Ivys.

I’m comfortable with my kids making in the $400k-$500k range. That’s what our income is right now. I won’t think of them as average or below average because they failed to make $10m a year. I think that would be a very unusual requirement for any parent of any income.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

They will. My expectations are not nearly as onerous as the ones I/my friends grew up with. I am not demanding that they MUST be doctors; I am not demanding that they MUST go to Harvard. Frankly they know even now that they have career choices of – medicine/dental; I banking; or law; and I’d live with engineering. They must choose from those – I am not choosing for them. I am also not requiring any particular school – they know that any ivy; MIT; Chicago; and a handful of others are all perfectly fine so they literally have to just get into 1. None of this is impossible and frankly my friends growing up who HAD to be doctors (even though they wanted a different respectable profession – engineering) had it much worse.

You can't be serious. I really hope that you're not serious.

What’s wrong with engineering?

[Anonymous]

New poster.
My kid is fairly bright and does well in school but he doesn’t seem to have the stamina and perseverance needed to excel. All he truly cares about is video games; if not allowed to play, he reads books and always seems to be in la la land.
I personally find him a bit boring (I used to be keenly interested in so many things, yet I have to drag him to any extracurricular activity). However he has what I still don’t have- this quiet self assurance to say no to what he doesn’t want and to try things that he thinks are worth trying. I am curious what will become of him but I purposely try not to give him any “directions” as to what to do with his life. I was always a great student and went to good schools on scholarships yet I am painfully self aware in terms of my professional capabilities and am working way below my credentials.

[Anonymous]

PP here: I actually was the happiest when our family lived in Sili valley on $90k a year
And I will be happier if my son becomes a teacher than if he becomes another tech bro coding for some useless startup or
Making video games that are today’s drugs.

[Anonymous]

If you really are so smart, then surely you have noticed that the people who are the most successful (by whatever measure you apply) are not the ones who went to Harvard and Yale with you. They are the risk takers and socially skilled folks who went to no college or a no-name college and dazzle with their personalities and vision. That can’t be news to you, can it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I absolutely understand and empathize.

Why so much hate from people on this board. OP hasn't said anything about the way he raises his kids or that these feelings are the dominant feelings he has about his kids. Any parent who has achieved a lot of academic and career success will, at least at some level, wish their kids to have academic success--among other talents. Doesn't everyone want the best for their kids?

The challenge is really how to sort through these wishes and feelings among a complex set of other feelings & wishes. I'm sure that OP's first and foremost feeling & wish is that the kids are loved, healthy and happy.

That being said--we can all talk about F500 execs or entrepreneurs who were late bloomers or didn't go to top schools, etc. but let's be realistic:

Top school alums make up a high proportion of very highly financially successful people...not a majority but a very high proportion. If you count ivy, stanford, mit, duke, uchicago, northwestern, amherst, williams, swarthmore, ucberkley, ucla, michigan, etc and look at both undergrad and/or grad students it's a very high percentage.

This. This is what matters at the end of the day. As much as everyone says "whatever makes them happy" -- they have been raised in a very cushy life with plenty of things, cars, vacations etc. -- I guarantee you ending up in a 85k job where you maybe get a driving vacation to a local beach every other year will NOT make them happy. So I don't get the hate from the other PPs. Sure there are those exceptions of -- my boss went to blah blah community college and is now a CEO. Great. But the closest thing in life to a 'guarantee' (and I realize there are no complete guarantees) is to get into one of those schools and study something marketable and start making good money young and investing. If you all don't want to push that -- fine -- but I do.

Almost everyone knows money isn't the end-all/be-all. There are plenty of people with money that are unhappy. However, this question is really for those that are successful financially: do you want your kids to be able live at least a similar lifestyle to the one you are raising them in? That's a problem that high-achievers face--it may be a good problem to have and I'm sure everyone is about to break out their "world's tiniest violin" and all but it is something high achievers think about if they actually care about their children--as opposed to the ones that want to show off how much they can spend.

Good schooling is something that leads to a higher chance of success--of course it doesn't guarantee it. Would you rather have your kids be mediocre and go to a school where the chance of financial success is far lower? All of you preachy types that say you want your kids to be happy--are you successfully financially (not that you may care at all). If you aren't then I totally get it. If you are and you don't care about your kids achieving then do you spend at a moderate lifestyle level? Or are you taking international vacations, etc in the name of "life experience" and "life learning" for your kids? Are they going to have the HHI when they grow up to be able to continue that lifestyle they have grown accustomed to? Think about it...

This. Yes I want my children to live in the manner they are accustomed, which requires significant income. If PPs who are acting holier than thou don't want that, that's great for them. But I know my kids, I know what will make them unhappy and for my kids -- they would not be happy on an 85k paycheck to paycheck lifestyle where they can't pick up and go on vacation tomorrow across the country or world bc they need to save up for a year first.

I don’t go to a top college. I make a LOT more than $85k per year. I expect A’s and B’s from my kids but have no particular preference about whether they go to a top school. I expect that they will also be high income.

The glaring problem with your analysis is that you acknowledge that most high income people didn’t go to top schools- so it doesn’t follow that if people don’t go to top schools, they won’t be successful. I also think going to a top school is most common among a certain social set, which for reasons that have nothing to do with their college choices, are more likely to be successful.

Depends on your definition of high income...if you are talking about $500k HHI then sure, dual income households can be successful getting there. To be honest, $400k - 500k is basically nearly entry level for combined HHI for two married NYC JD, MBA, or MD professionals. But if you are talking net worths of $10m+ that's another ballgame--that population is over indexed to Ivys.

I’m comfortable with my kids making in the $400k-$500k range. That’s what our income is right now. I won’t think of them as average or below average because they failed to make $10m a year. I think that would be a very unusual requirement for any parent of any income.

Just ignore the PP. she flipped between income and net worth. And by the way, if a couple making 500k can’t amass a net worth of 10m then they make bad financial decisions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I’m comfortable with my kids making in the $400k-$500k range. That’s what our income is right now. I won’t think of them as average or below average because they failed to make $10m a year. I think that would be a very unusual requirement for any parent of any income.

LOL, so you're comfortable with your kids making in the top one-half of one percent of the income distribution, OK. Never change, DCUM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I’m comfortable with my kids making in the $400k-$500k range. That’s what our income is right now. I won’t think of them as average or below average because they failed to make $10m a year. I think that would be a very unusual requirement for any parent of any income.

LOL, so you're comfortable with your kids making in the top one-half of one percent of the income distribution, OK. Never change, DCUM.

Right? HAHAHAHAHAHA!

[Anonymous]

Boy you guys are all in for a rude awakening when your kids are old enough to work. They will not make as much as us. The economy and job market will look nothing like it looks right now. Most jobs will become automated. Our kids are going to be playing in a different kind of playing field.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I’m comfortable with my kids making in the $400k-$500k range. That’s what our income is right now. I won’t think of them as average or below average because they failed to make $10m a year. I think that would be a very unusual requirement for any parent of any income.

LOL, so you're comfortable with your kids making in the top one-half of one percent of the income distribution, OK. Never change, DCUM.

Right? HAHAHAHAHAHA!

Well, God forbid they fall in the lower half of the top one percent.

[Anonymous]

OP, you sound like a massive jerk. Love your kids for who THEY are, not because they aren't fitting into some preconceived notion of what you define as success.

- signed, someone with those markers of success (Andover for HS, graduated magna cum laude from a top 10 college, honors in a top 10 grad program, making $400-500K HHI). i sincerely want my child to find her passion in life, pursue it with gusto, and be at least a halfway decent person to others.

[Anonymous]

And the self absorbed nitwit award goes to ....