Moms of sons - do you guide your son to be respectful of girls?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yeah, I'm grossed out by people picking apart what constitutes rape. We as a society are FINALLY getting somewhere with teaching guys and then you have people poo-pooing other women's coercion. ANd yes, it most certainly can be rape to be told to have sex OR ELSE. Forcing someone to have sex with them when they don't want to is not healthy consent, that is for sure, and I am agog that it's being justified here. Gross.

It may not be healthy consent, but it is NOT rape.

Then what is it? Coerced consent? Coerced consent is not consent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yeah, I'm grossed out by people picking apart what constitutes rape. We as a society are FINALLY getting somewhere with teaching guys and then you have people poo-pooing other women's coercion. ANd yes, it most certainly can be rape to be told to have sex OR ELSE. Forcing someone to have sex with them when they don't want to is not healthy consent, that is for sure, and I am agog that it's being justified here. Gross.

It may not be healthy consent, but it is NOT rape.

Then what is it? Coerced consent? Coerced consent is not consent.

If someone says, if you don't have sex you do not love me. I will break up with you and find someone else. And the girl consents to sex. That is not rape
And yes, that situation happens. Sorry, that is not rape

If someone says, if you don't have sex I'll beat you up. That is rape. Its pretty clear.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yeah, I'm grossed out by people picking apart what constitutes rape. We as a society are FINALLY getting somewhere with teaching guys and then you have people poo-pooing other women's coercion. ANd yes, it most certainly can be rape to be told to have sex OR ELSE. Forcing someone to have sex with them when they don't want to is not healthy consent, that is for sure, and I am agog that it's being justified here. Gross.

It may not be healthy consent, but it is NOT rape.

Then what is it? Coerced consent? Coerced consent is not consent.

If someone says, if you don't have sex you do not love me. I will break up with you and find someone else. And the girl consents to sex. That is not rape
And yes, that situation happens. Sorry, that is not rape

If someone says, if you don't have sex I'll beat you up. That is rape. Its pretty clear.

No, you haven't answered the question. What is sex with coerced consent, if not rape?

[Anonymous]

now adays anything can amount to rape.

There are many grey situations where a woman may consent to sex and then regret it later. Under today's definition, that would be rape.

It could be drunk sex where both parties were mutually drunk (not sex where someone slips something into your drink or purposely makes you drunk to incapcitate you, that's rape)

It could be where the woman was unable to speak up clearly and said yes to sex even though the situation was uncomfortable to her. These people would also classify it as sex.

There are people trying to say that if someone lies to you to have sex (e.g. he tells you he is rich but he is not) that is also rape.

Its ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm sorry but if a guy says "you don't love me if you don't have sex with me", that is NOT rape. That is such a ridiculous statement. As a rape victim I'm disgusted.

It sure is coercion, though. Is consent possible, if there is coercion? (And what do we call sexual contact without consent?)

Yeah, I'm grossed out by people picking apart what constitutes rape. We as a society are FINALLY getting somewhere with teaching guys and then you have people poo-pooing other women's coercion. ANd yes, it most certainly can be rape to be told to have sex OR ELSE. Forcing someone to have sex with them when they don't want to is not healthy consent, that is for sure, and I am agog that it's being justified here. Gross.

It may not be healthy consent, but it is NOT rape.

OR ELSE what? or else he breaks up with her? And that is rape? give me a break.

I always thought it meant - "Have sex with me or I will beat you/kill you" or some other horrific thing. - RAPE

I don't think anyone is saying - "Have sex with me or I'll break up with you/I'm leaving/I won't take you to prom" is considered rape.

A gray area might be driving a woman to a remote location, at night and saying - "I'm not taking you back home until you have sex with me". In fact, I don't even think that's a gray area....that would be an assault.

but that is exactly what people are arguing. There is a case going round now where a woman is trying to petition in cases where women have sex in situations where they agreed, but then regretted the sex after, there's rape. Or if they had rape under circumstances where they thought one set of assumptions (e.g. th eguy was rich) and then found out later it wasn't Noone is arguing if a woman had sex where she was threatened with violence that is not a straightforward case of rape.

What? No, just no. Regretting sex is not rape. Assuming a guy is rich and he isn't is not rape. You may be seeing this petition, but that is not what sane people think. What sane people are upset about is the fact that most rapes don't even get reported because it is terrifying for the woman to even think about going on trial. Sane people are upset that way too many men think fucking an unconscious woman is no big deal. Sane people are upset that women are often not believed.

Can we get back on topic because nobody HERE is arguing about someone saying a guy was rich and he wasn't and that's rape. That is ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

If someone threatens to break up with you unless you sleep with him, and then you consent, that is not rape.

Consent taken under threat of violence (coerced consent) is very different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:now adays anything can amount to rape.

There are many grey situations where a woman may consent to sex and then regret it later. Under today's definition, that would be rape. WRONG, THAT IS NOT TRUE, STOP MAKING THINGS UP.

It could be drunk sex where both parties were mutually drunk (not sex where someone slips something into your drink or purposely makes you drunk to incapcitate you, that's rape). IF A PERSON IS SO DRUNK THAT THEY ARE PASSED OUT AND/OR CANNOT USE SOUND JUDGMENT, THEN YES IT IS RAPE. AN UNCONSIOUS PERSON CANNOT GIVE CONSENT.

It could be where the woman was unable to speak up clearly and said yes to sex even though the situation was uncomfortable to her. These people would also classify it as sex. NO, NOT RAPE, AND I HAVE NEVER EVER SEEN THAT ARGUED IN ALL MY YEARS WORKING WITH RAPE VICTIMS.

There are people trying to say that if someone lies to you to have sex (e.g. he tells you he is rich but he is not) that is also rape. AGAIN, THIS IS RIDICULOUS, AND NOBODY, ESPECIALLY NOBODY HERE IS SAYING THAT. IF ONE IDIOT IS SAYING THIS ON THE INTERNET, THIS DOES NOT MAKE IT A TREND.

Its ridiculous. THIS I AGREE WITH. RIDICULOUS INDEED.

My responses in all caps.

[Anonymous]

Since we are on the topic of coercion, it most definitely can fall under the definition of rape. IT ALSO MIGHT NOT.

Here is some info that I copied and pasted from a sexual abuse help website:

Coercive sexual abuse is difficult to establish, or even to admit to oneself. Were we sexually assaulted or did we agree to it? The abuser can simply say that we did (finally) agree to sexual intercourse, after a little persuasion, or once our 'bad mood' had departed. But we can left feeling confused, dirty, betrayed and assaulted. We do not know whether to report it. Surely the first question the police will ask was whether there was force used, or violence threatened? In most cases we prefer to 'forget' the matter and hope it doesn't happen again - but chances are it will, as once the abuser has found that coercive sexual abuse works without any obvious repercussions on him, why stop?


A great article - "Victims of sexual coercion are often blind to the crime" - http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/26/victims-sexual-coercion-blind-to-crime


Another definition:

Coercion
Coercion is the use of emotional manipulation to persuade someone to something they may not want to do – like being sexual or performing certain sexual acts. Examples of some coercive statements include: “If you love me you would have sex with me .”, “If you don't have sex with me I will find someone who will.”, and “I'm not sure I can be with someone who doesn't want to have sex with me.” Coercive statements are often part of many campus acquaintance rapes. Being coerced into having sex or performing sexual acts is not consenting to having sex and is considered rape/sexual assault.

So really? THe bottom line is that you can't be coerced "and then consent." If you are coerced, you are coerced. The consent is to prevent something negative (and please can we ditch the teenage "I'll break up with you" trope...that is not a very good example of coercision) from happening to the victim, so their "consent" is to keep them (or maybe their children or loved ones) safe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:now adays anything can amount to rape.

There are many grey situations where a woman may consent to sex and then regret it later. Under today's definition, that would be rape. WRONG, THAT IS NOT TRUE, STOP MAKING THINGS UP.

It could be drunk sex where both parties were mutually drunk (not sex where someone slips something into your drink or purposely makes you drunk to incapcitate you, that's rape). IF A PERSON IS SO DRUNK THAT THEY ARE PASSED OUT AND/OR CANNOT USE SOUND JUDGMENT, THEN YES IT IS RAPE. AN UNCONSIOUS PERSON CANNOT GIVE CONSENT.

It could be where the woman was unable to speak up clearly and said yes to sex even though the situation was uncomfortable to her. These people would also classify it as sex. NO, NOT RAPE, AND I HAVE NEVER EVER SEEN THAT ARGUED IN ALL MY YEARS WORKING WITH RAPE VICTIMS.

There are people trying to say that if someone lies to you to have sex (e.g. he tells you he is rich but he is not) that is also rape. AGAIN, THIS IS RIDICULOUS, AND NOBODY, ESPECIALLY NOBODY HERE IS SAYING THAT. IF ONE IDIOT IS SAYING THIS ON THE INTERNET, THIS DOES NOT MAKE IT A TREND.

Its ridiculous. THIS I AGREE WITH. RIDICULOUS INDEED.

My responses in all caps.

it is ridiculous but it is happening.

http://madamenoire.com/536165/should-lying-to-get-sex-be-considered-rape/


According to Jenice Armstrong columnist for the Philadelphia Daily News, New Jersey law Assemblyman Troy Singleton has sponsored a bill which would make “sexual assault by fraud” a punishable offense. In short, the bill hopes to expand the definition of sexual assault in that state to include “an act of sexual penetration to which a person has given consent because the actor has misrepresented the purpose of the act or has represented he is someone he is not.”

As reported by Armstrong, the inspiration behind the bill is Mischele Lewis, a 37-year-old “suburban-mom-turned-activist” who found out that the man she was dating lied about not only not having children – he has a 10 year old daughter – but also not having a home – he lived in his parent’s basement.

[Anonymous]

sorry. if a guy tells you he will break up with you if you don't have sex with him, it may be emotional manipulation.

However if you then go ahead and have sex with him to keep him with you (and that happens), it is not rape. Its called you having low self esteem and not standing up for youself. And that is why I think campuses should not adjucate rape cases and leave it to the police.

Considering now campus policies also constitutes hugging as sexual assault, I am skeptical.

If a guy tells you if you don't have sex with him he will break your teeth, that's another matter all together. That's rape.

[Anonymous]

Meh. I'm not going to get worked up by some extremist example, which I agree with you, is ridiculous and is an outlier of a situation.

The reality is that we have a problem in this country, and particularly on college campuses of girls getting raped by their peers. THAT is much more important than a weird woman doing a weird thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:now adays anything can amount to rape.

There are many grey situations where a woman may consent to sex and then regret it later. Under today's definition, that would be rape.

It could be drunk sex where both parties were mutually drunk (not sex where someone slips something into your drink or purposely makes you drunk to incapcitate you, that's rape)

It could be where the woman was unable to speak up clearly and said yes to sex even though the situation was uncomfortable to her. These people would also classify it as sex.

There are people trying to say that if someone lies to you to have sex (e.g. he tells you he is rich but he is not) that is also rape.

Its ridiculous.

No, it wouldn't. If the person was capable of consent AND consented, it's not rape. If a person was capable of consent but did not consent, then it's rape. If a person was not capable of consent, then the person did not consent (even though the person may have agreed), and it's rape.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Meh. I'm not going to get worked up by some extremist example, which I agree with you, is ridiculous and is an outlier of a situation.

The reality is that we have a problem in this country, and particularly on college campuses of girls getting raped by their peers. THAT is much more important than a weird woman doing a weird thing.

The reality is that there is NO Problem in this country particularly on college campuses of girls getting raped by their peers. It is a manufactured crisis. In fact, your girls are safer on campus than out in the real world. I refuse to believe that somehow just because you have a penis you're born a rapist.

Here are the statistics to back it up. the previous studies suggesting there is a rape crisis is highly flawed, and even the authors of the studies have admitted that they should not be used.

The DOJ study as of 2014 which as highly impartial and neutral: http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=5176

The rate of rape and sexual assault was 1.2 times higher for nonstudents (7.6 per 1,000) than for students (6.1 per 1,000). That is a 0.61% of being raped on campus
Given that 80% of rapes may be underreported, factoring that in that's a 3.1% chance of being raped on campus.
your daughters are safer on campus than off.

Hardly the 1 in 5 statistic: 20% which is equivalent to rape in war torn areas.
"The statistic comes from a 2007 Campus Sexual Assault study conducted by the National Institute of Justice, a division of the Justice Department. The researchers made clear that the study consisted of students from just two universities, but some politicians ignored that for their talking point, choosing instead to apply the small sample across all U.S. college campuses."
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/no-1-in-5-women-have-not-been-raped-on-college-campuses/article/2551980

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:now adays anything can amount to rape.

There are many grey situations where a woman may consent to sex and then regret it later. Under today's definition, that would be rape.

It could be drunk sex where both parties were mutually drunk (not sex where someone slips something into your drink or purposely makes you drunk to incapcitate you, that's rape)

It could be where the woman was unable to speak up clearly and said yes to sex even though the situation was uncomfortable to her. These people would also classify it as sex.

There are people trying to say that if someone lies to you to have sex (e.g. he tells you he is rich but he is not) that is also rape.

Its ridiculous.

No, it wouldn't. If the person was capable of consent AND consented, it's not rape. If a person was capable of consent but did not consent, then it's rape. If a person was not capable of consent, then the person did not consent (even though the person may have agreed), and it's rape.

i totallly agree with you. Some people are trying to make situations where a person consented also areas where it may be sexual assault and rape.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No, it wouldn't. If the person was capable of consent AND consented, it's not rape. If a person was capable of consent but did not consent, then it's rape. If a person was not capable of consent, then the person did not consent (even though the person may have agreed), and it's rape.

i totallly agree with you. Some people are trying to make situations where a person consented also areas where it may be sexual assault and rape.

"Some people" who? And how?