New York Top Schools - Top marks largely go to Asians. Bill de Blasio wants to change the exams

[Anonymous]

I think it's a mistake for these schools to take kids who need to spend all their time studying to get high enough scores on the test. These schools should be filled with kids who can do well without spending all their out of school time studying, so they can be participating in and learning from non-academic activities such as arts, music, and sports. High school is a time to explore; kids are narrowing their opportunities if they only have time for schoolwork.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it's a mistake for these schools to take kids who need to spend all their time studying to get high enough scores on the test. These schools should be filled with kids who can do well without spending all their out of school time studying, so they can be participating in and learning from non-academic activities such as arts, music, and sports. High school is a time to explore; kids are narrowing their opportunities if they only have time for schoolwork.

I agree with this, although 1) how do you separate the studying high-achieving kids from the well-rounded high-achieving kids and 2) this is still another way of saying, let's increase the number of white kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's a mistake for these schools to take kids who need to spend all their time studying to get high enough scores on the test. These schools should be filled with kids who can do well without spending all their out of school time studying, so they can be participating in and learning from non-academic activities such as arts, music, and sports. High school is a time to explore; kids are narrowing their opportunities if they only have time for schoolwork.

I agree with this, although 1) how do you separate the studying high-achieving kids from the well-rounded high-achieving kids and 2) this is still another way of saying, let's increase the number of white kids.

No, nothing to do with race or nationality. You require essays and teacher recommendations that give a broader picture of each candidate and their ability to handle the workload and contribute to the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21646217-top-marks-largely-go-asians-bill-de-blasio-wants-change-exams-asians-beware

What are your thoughts about this? I feel that this is a trend that one can see in the most exclusive and competitive schools and colleges - where Asians are becoming the majority because of higher academic performance.

The lowering of admissions criteria will help Whites rather than Hispanics and Blacks. Similar to what is happening in the Ivy League colleges.

I have to shake my head with these things. The premise is always that there is cultural bias. But if there's cultural bias, then shouldn't that be favoring whites? Obviously it isn't. Guess the results negate a big chunk of the cultural bias theory...

For a long time Whites were the ones who were the majority in these kinds of elite institutions because they had the advantage of higher SES than AA and Hispanics. However, now Asian kids from most humble and blue collar families are fast catching up and doing even better than Whites because of belonging to a culture that encourages hard work. So, now the easiest thing to do is vilify working hard and being prepared (an Asian cultural value) because it is challenging the traditional elites for these coveted spots.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Well, the test to get into the gifted program in MCPS is supposed to be very hush hush, and generally, you can't get a hold of past or sample exams. However, some parents have come to realize that it's very similar to cogat tests, so they have their kids prep by taking the cogat sample test. Where there is a will, there is a way.

People definitely have their kids prep by taking the CogAT sample test. But is the prep effective, and if so, how effective is it?

Also, the test is not hush hush. There's at least one state board appeal decision posted on line that talks about it, and there are regularly links to the decision posted on DCUM.

For only 100 spots in RCMS magnet program, approx 700 kids took the entrance exam. Each child was prepared to some extent (test prep, kumon, worksheets) and each came to the test with the hope of making it into the program. If test preps were that effective, all kids who took the prep class would get in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's a mistake for these schools to take kids who need to spend all their time studying to get high enough scores on the test. These schools should be filled with kids who can do well without spending all their out of school time studying, so they can be participating in and learning from non-academic activities such as arts, music, and sports. High school is a time to explore; kids are narrowing their opportunities if they only have time for schoolwork.

I agree with this, although 1) how do you separate the studying high-achieving kids from the well-rounded high-achieving kids and 2) this is still another way of saying, let's increase the number of white kids.

No, nothing to do with race or nationality. You require essays and teacher recommendations that give a broader picture of each candidate and their ability to handle the workload and contribute to the school.

I know that professional essay writers charge 25K for writing college essays in MD, and teacher recommendation is a subjective and narrow view of the student at best. This will undoubtedly favor parents who can buy their way in. It has nothing to do with merit, and everything to do with money.

Tests remain the most recognized and heavily weighted quantifiable means of measuring the ability of the student. Everyone knows that they are important and everyone can prepare for it. Those who need monetary help for this kind of prep, they should be given it. In fact even in MCPS, the low income students who are applying should be given the cogat book at the very least.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it's a mistake for these schools to take kids who need to spend all their time studying to get high enough scores on the test. These schools should be filled with kids who can do well without spending all their out of school time studying, so they can be participating in and learning from non-academic activities such as arts, music, and sports. High school is a time to explore; kids are narrowing their opportunities if they only have time for schoolwork.

I disagree. Well-rounded individuals who get secondarily high academic scores deserve to go to college, but do not deserve to displace the highest achievers. Those who have the drive and will to succeed at any cost, including spending all of their time studying are the types that make scientific breakthroughs, create inventions, and drive intellectual progress forward. I work in a science and engineering based industry and it's the hard workers that are the most needed, not the bright kids who want to do a lot of everything, do everything well, but not truly excel at anything. Great support staff, but not the true bright stars. The best institutions need to have both the brightest and the hardest working.

It's this attitude that well-rounded individual should take the places of the truly academically gifted and diligent that has deteriorated the American dominance in science, engineering and technology. Once we were the unchallenged leader in those areas and now we are just one of the top-10 nations in those areas. We have diluted our intellectual dominance with jacks/jills-of-all-trades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What about offering a free or subsidized test prep service for income-qualified black and Latino students?

While I get the argument that Asian families of modest means make this a priority, the children of families who aren't that lucky should have a way to get the test prep as well.

This is what is wrong with liberalism.

We should not have to spoon feed people. If a family does not make test prep a priority, the gov't should not make it a priority for them.

This is America. It is a free country.

If a family is willing to scrimp and save for test prep, and their children are willing to go to the test prep and study hard, then those children will be the ones getting into the magnet schools. Period. End of story.

And if another family wants to spend their dollars on video games and not make their kids do any homework, then there are consequences.

Geez. I am so tired of all the liberal baloney!!

Life if what you make it. We can't tell people how to live their lives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's a mistake for these schools to take kids who need to spend all their time studying to get high enough scores on the test. These schools should be filled with kids who can do well without spending all their out of school time studying, so they can be participating in and learning from non-academic activities such as arts, music, and sports. High school is a time to explore; kids are narrowing their opportunities if they only have time for schoolwork.

I disagree. Well-rounded individuals who get secondarily high academic scores deserve to go to college, but do not deserve to displace the highest achievers. Those who have the drive and will to succeed at any cost, including spending all of their time studying are the types that make scientific breakthroughs, create inventions, and drive intellectual progress forward. I work in a science and engineering based industry and it's the hard workers that are the most needed, not the bright kids who want to do a lot of everything, do everything well, but not truly excel at anything. Great support staff, but not the true bright stars. The best institutions need to have both the brightest and the hardest working.

It's this attitude that well-rounded individual should take the places of the truly academically gifted and diligent that has deteriorated the American dominance in science, engineering and technology. Once we were the unchallenged leader in those areas and now we are just one of the top-10 nations in those areas. We have diluted our intellectual dominance with jacks/jills-of-all-trades.

I am talking about kids who can achieve at the highest level and also have the ability to achieve highly in one or two non-academic pursuits at the same time. They are incredibly hard workers who can learn in two hours what takes another kid four and so have the time to also be a highly skilled athlete or musician. These are the ones to grow up to be the "...types that make scientific breakthroughs, create inventions, and drive intellectual progress forward." Kids who go to school and then need to study and only study after school to be a high achiever miss out on much that is needed to be a leader in science.

Some kids just learn quickly and can be high achievers both in and out of school and more than one area. They will have the variety of experiences that are necessary for the creative thinking that is needed to advance science.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's a mistake for these schools to take kids who need to spend all their time studying to get high enough scores on the test. These schools should be filled with kids who can do well without spending all their out of school time studying, so they can be participating in and learning from non-academic activities such as arts, music, and sports. High school is a time to explore; kids are narrowing their opportunities if they only have time for schoolwork.

I disagree. Well-rounded individuals who get secondarily high academic scores deserve to go to college, but do not deserve to displace the highest achievers. Those who have the drive and will to succeed at any cost, including spending all of their time studying are the types that make scientific breakthroughs, create inventions, and drive intellectual progress forward. I work in a science and engineering based industry and it's the hard workers that are the most needed, not the bright kids who want to do a lot of everything, do everything well, but not truly excel at anything. Great support staff, but not the true bright stars. The best institutions need to have both the brightest and the hardest working.

It's this attitude that well-rounded individual should take the places of the truly academically gifted and diligent that has deteriorated the American dominance in science, engineering and technology. Once we were the unchallenged leader in those areas and now we are just one of the top-10 nations in those areas. We have diluted our intellectual dominance with jacks/jills-of-all-trades.

I am talking about kids who can achieve at the highest level and also have the ability to achieve highly in one or two non-academic pursuits at the same time. They are incredibly hard workers who can learn in two hours what takes another kid four and so have the time to also be a highly skilled athlete or musician. These are the ones to grow up to be the "...types that make scientific breakthroughs, create inventions, and drive intellectual progress forward." Kids who go to school and then need to study and only study after school to be a high achiever miss out on much that is needed to be a leader in science.

Some kids just learn quickly and can be high achievers both in and out of school and more than one area. They will have the variety of experiences that are necessary for the creative thinking that is needed to advance science.

If they are all that, then they should be qualify on the current academic-based standards and don't need any adjustments to the current system. However, it's great that they can do that, but I see absolutely no point in making it a bonus point that they are well-rounded or play instruments or are skilled athletes. The top colleges should be able to place all high achieving academic students. Period. The hard-working academic students are not chasing out high achieving well-rounded individuals. They are chasing out second-string academics who are well-rounded. And that's what I think is wrong. Academics should be the primary criteria for getting into the best institutions and A-/B+ students who are athletes and play instruments pushing out A students who only study is wrong, IMHO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

For only 100 spots in RCMS magnet program, approx 700 kids took the entrance exam. Each child was prepared to some extent (test prep, kumon, worksheets) and each came to the test with the hope of making it into the program. If test preps were that effective, all kids who took the prep class would get in.

That doesn't make sense at all. For one thing, if each child was prepped, that's 700 kids for 100 spots; they can't all get in. For another thing, I don't think that many people are saying that you get in if you prep and you don't if you don't. There are certainly many kids who prep and don't get in. There are also probably some (many? I don't know) kids who don't prep and do get in. The issue is whether and how much prepping increases your chances of getting in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What about offering a free or subsidized test prep service for income-qualified black and Latino students?

While I get the argument that Asian families of modest means make this a priority, the children of families who aren't that lucky should have a way to get the test prep as well.

This is what is wrong with liberalism.

We should not have to spoon feed people. If a family does not make test prep a priority, the gov't should not make it a priority for them.

This is America. It is a free country.

If a family is willing to scrimp and save for test prep, and their children are willing to go to the test prep and study hard, then those children will be the ones getting into the magnet schools. Period. End of story.

And if another family wants to spend their dollars on video games and not make their kids do any homework, then there are consequences.

Geez. I am so tired of all the liberal baloney!!

Life if what you make it. We can't tell people how to live their lives.

In other words, you believe that a person's opportunities in life should depend on their choice of parents. Personal responsibility, eh? If you happened to pick the wrong parents, too bad for you. You should have been more careful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I know that professional essay writers charge 25K for writing college essays in MD, and teacher recommendation is a subjective and narrow view of the student at best. This will undoubtedly favor parents who can buy their way in. It has nothing to do with merit, and everything to do with money.

Tests remain the most recognized and heavily weighted quantifiable means of measuring the ability of the student. Everyone knows that they are important and everyone can prepare for it. Those who need monetary help for this kind of prep, they should be given it. In fact even in MCPS, the low income students who are applying should be given the cogat book at the very least.

That doesn't mean that they're a good means, though. If everybody had the same advantages and opportunities, they might be. However, everybody doesn't. That's the underlying problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's a mistake for these schools to take kids who need to spend all their time studying to get high enough scores on the test. These schools should be filled with kids who can do well without spending all their out of school time studying, so they can be participating in and learning from non-academic activities such as arts, music, and sports. High school is a time to explore; kids are narrowing their opportunities if they only have time for schoolwork.

I agree with this, although 1) how do you separate the studying high-achieving kids from the well-rounded high-achieving kids and 2) this is still another way of saying, let's increase the number of white kids.

No, nothing to do with race or nationality. You require essays and teacher recommendations that give a broader picture of each candidate and their ability to handle the workload and contribute to the school.

I know that professional essay writers charge 25K for writing college essays in MD, and teacher recommendation is a subjective and narrow view of the student at best. This will undoubtedly favor parents who can buy their way in. It has nothing to do with merit, and everything to do with money.

Tests remain the most recognized and heavily weighted quantifiable means of measuring the ability of the student. Everyone knows that they are important and everyone can prepare for it. Those who need monetary help for this kind of prep, they should be given it. In fact even in MCPS, the low income students who are applying should be given the cogat book at the very least.

This statement shows you really don't know anything about MoCo selection process.

[Anonymous]

So, the "anti-prep" families don't prep for tests at all? Don't you tell your kids to study for SAT, AP tests, or whatever?