Correlation of SES status, race, and FARMS with test scores and disruptiveness?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't get it. I really don't.

You agree that the police do a bunch of bad stuff, at our expense, in our name, and then you say, "If you are going to pick pumpkins, you go to a pumpkin patch."? That's your solution for the kid in New York? He should stop being a pumpkin? He should move out of the pumpkin patch?

There's also the issue, of course, that white bikers can sell their motorcycles, and white trailer-park residents can (maybe) find somewhere else to live, whereas black people can -- what? stop being black?

It's not about being black, it's about culture. Do you really think a Pagans enforcer will suddenly become gentle, clean, sober and civilized the minute you take him off of his Hog? What about the guy with the Aryan Brotherhood prison tattoos all over him. You think cops won't instantly recognize that for what it is and consider him a likely threat?

Consider for example that it's usually pretty easy to tell the difference between an AA who grew up in DC vs. one who moved here from abroad, say Trinidad or Nigeria - before they even say a word. It's in how they carry themselves, walk, interact, et cetera. You can likewise tell the difference in how high-SES AAs carry themselves, walk, interact vs how a low-SES person in DC would.

The difference is not skin color, it's cultural, and it's those cultural differences even within populations that cops take far more note of than anything else.

Christ. It must be nice to be so removed from reality.

[Anonymous]

Yes, this is the typical divide I feel when talking with white folks. They have no clue. If you look at history and the institutionalized, psychological baggage that has been left behind, it is easy to understand why people (black, white and other) have a negative view (often subconscious) of blacks.

If you look at the news, it's even more obvious (black people's lives are downplayed in the news). This stuff isn't some emotional trip by AAs. All the research supports it. Again folks, ask your black friends PLEASE - especially the ones you'd think would have never had any issues with being harassed by police. You would be surprised. I am a black female and both I have been targeted. I get very nervous whenever I see cops and I have never done anything illegal (nor was I around people or in an area considered crime-ridden).

It's unbelievable that people are arguing against my experiences and those of many in the black community. Why in the world would we lie?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the previous AA poster who was profiled several times - not in a black community. Once on the highway heading to work (pulled over and harassed by police who asked to search my car). Once heading to a friend's house. Once in my neighborhood which is predominately white. Same thing happened to some of my friends as well. Cops were white and black.

It's a reflection on how police (and others) value or don't value those in our community (or value them over others).

Just imagine if you were continuously targeted because of your red hair, or you drive a certain color car, or any other arbitrary thing. The only thing is that I can't change the color of my skin.

Race is the sole reason that I am targeted - no other reason. I drive same type of car as many others. Nothing about me stands out but color. To say that, I just have to deal with it because I happened to have been born this way is ridiculous. The same argument used against women's groups and others who wanted to be treated fairly. I want to be treated fairly. It's demoralizing - which I think is the point.

The fact that people don't believe you is pretty appalling. As is the turn this thread had taken. Didn't expect that people here would just flat out deny that institutional racism exists.

[Anonymous]

^ both I and my brother...

[Anonymous]

I doubt most people agree with the PP who thinks institutional racism doesn't exists. It's likely one PP who is writing all the posts. Of course, blacks (all kinds - low and high SES - and all between) are targeted more by police and the justice system. There's no question. That person is just ignorant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I doubt most people agree with the PP who thinks institutional racism doesn't exists. It's likely one PP who is writing all the posts. Of course, blacks (all kinds - low and high SES - and all between) are targeted more by police and the justice system. There's no question. That person is just ignorant.

Well, it seems like there are two sides arguing indefensible positions.

1. People claiming that no targeting of minorities exists. There's simply too much data to believe that this doesn't occur.
2. People claiming that the only reason a significant disparity in arrest and sentencing exists is because of racial targeting by police. Again, way to much data to believe that this is the case.

The National Crime Victimization Survey (http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=dcdetail&iid=245) tracks the race of perpetrators as reported by crime victims. When you examine this and compare it to the prosecution rate, it matches very closely. I.e. the racial makeup of the people being prosecuted matches the makeup of those committing the crimes. Is it perfect? No, but it does lend some credence to those claiming that the criminal system isn't horribly biased.

Are law abiding minorities being hassled/targeted simply because they're minorities? Yes, I'm sure that is happening. Too many news and personal reports to believe otherwise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I doubt most people agree with the PP who thinks institutional racism doesn't exists. It's likely one PP who is writing all the posts. Of course, blacks (all kinds - low and high SES - and all between) are targeted more by police and the justice system. There's no question. That person is just ignorant.

Well, it seems like there are two sides arguing indefensible positions.

1. People claiming that no targeting of minorities exists. There's simply too much data to believe that this doesn't occur.
2. People claiming that the only reason a significant disparity in arrest and sentencing exists is because of racial targeting by police. Again, way to much data to believe that this is the case.

The National Crime Victimization Survey (http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=dcdetail&iid=245) tracks the race of perpetrators as reported by crime victims. When you examine this and compare it to the prosecution rate, it matches very closely. I.e. the racial makeup of the people being prosecuted matches the makeup of those committing the crimes. Is it perfect? No, but it does lend some credence to those claiming that the criminal system isn't horribly biased.

Are law abiding minorities being hassled/targeted simply because they're minorities? Yes, I'm sure that is happening. Too many news and personal reports to believe otherwise.

Who has been saying this? Can you please cite some PPs on this thread?

[Anonymous]

09:08, those are strawmen.

On 1 - Yes, there is targeting and profiling by race, nobody here ever denied that.

The reason why there is targeting and profiling of certain demographics is because there is a disproportionately high incidence of crime in those demographics.

It's also been demonstrated that it's not specifically about race, either as there have been plenty of examples of non-AA demographics given which also have high incidences of crime and corresponding targeting by police.

You keep saying "maybe you should ask AAs about how AAs get targeted" even though that's already been addressed over and over here - but you don't want to hear the fact that certain groups of whites and other demographics also get systematically targeted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You keep saying "maybe you should ask AAs about how AAs get targeted" even though that's already been addressed over and over here - but you don't want to hear the fact that certain groups of whites and other demographics also get systematically targeted.

Not 9:08 here.

Nobody on this thread has said that only African-Americans get targeted.

And yes, you should ask African-Americans about how African-Americans get targeted. Why? Because African-Americans are the experts on this. African-Americans know; you don't know. In fact, you don't even need to ask African-Americans -- African-Americans are right here on this thread, telling you. And the way this has been "addressed", basically, is by saying "nuh-uh".

[Anonymous]

I finally get it
ses = class
farms = % of kids of color
iq = mothers intelligence, predictor of school success
fles = bad if parents are not high class diplomat or business executives
Spanish = language not associated with Spain
immigrant <> expat
expats are those from Europe
others are immigrants
Minorities = undesirables

[Anonymous]

Again, there hasn't been any "nuh-uh". Where on this thread did any PP deny that AAs ever get targeted? I don't recall seeing anyone denying it.

At least we now have agreement that AAs and whites alike get targeted so maybe we can at least count that as progress toward the truth.

Yes, certain demographics do get targeted - like bikers, or latino kids with gang tattoos, or low-SES AA males - because of the high incidence of crime that happens around them, not because of their race.

I'm not denying that there aren't still problems in some areas and with some cops, but in most major cities around the country cops typically have enough stuff to worry about without having to go out of their way to pick out random people to harrass for no reason at all.

[Anonymous]

Why are we even carrying on about this when this is DC, which for decades has been AA run, with AA mayors, majority AA council, majority AA police department, et cetera. If AAs are getting targeted by police in DC, then it's by AAs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I finally get it
ses = class
farms = % of kids of color
iq = mothers intelligence, predictor of school success
fles = bad if parents are not high class diplomat or business executives
Spanish = language not associated with Spain
immigrant <> expat
expats are those from Europe
others are immigrants
Minorities = undesirables

wrong
wrong
wrong
wrong
wrong
wrong
wrong

and

wrong

You don't get it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Again, there hasn't been any "nuh-uh". Where on this thread did any PP deny that AAs ever get targeted? I don't recall seeing anyone denying it.

At least we now have agreement that AAs and whites alike get targeted so maybe we can at least count that as progress toward the truth.

Yes, certain demographics do get targeted - like bikers, or latino kids with gang tattoos, or low-SES AA males - because of the high incidence of crime that happens around them, not because of their race.

I'm not denying that there aren't still problems in some areas and with some cops, but in most major cities around the country cops typically have enough stuff to worry about without having to go out of their way to pick out random people to harrass for no reason at all.

You can stop doing that now.

Yes, it is a race issue. It doesn't get any simpler than that. It is a race issue. African-Americans are telling you that it is a race issue. You are telling them that you know better than them about their own experience. Maybe you should stop talking and start listening.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why are we even carrying on about this when this is DC, which for decades has been AA run, with AA mayors, majority AA council, majority AA police department, et cetera. If AAs are getting targeted by police in DC, then it's by AAs.

Have you heard of the distinction between personal racism and institutional racism?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Again, there hasn't been any "nuh-uh". Where on this thread did any PP deny that AAs ever get targeted? I don't recall seeing anyone denying it.

At least we now have agreement that AAs and whites alike get targeted so maybe we can at least count that as progress toward the truth.

Yes, certain demographics do get targeted - like bikers, or latino kids with gang tattoos, or low-SES AA males - because of the high incidence of crime that happens around them, not because of their race.

I'm not denying that there aren't still problems in some areas and with some cops, but in most major cities around the country cops typically have enough stuff to worry about without having to go out of their way to pick out random people to harrass for no reason at all.

You can stop doing that now.

Yes, it is a race issue. It doesn't get any simpler than that. It is a race issue. African-Americans are telling you that it is a race issue. You are telling them that you know better than them about their own experience. Maybe you should stop talking and start listening.

Yes, African Americans are telling us about their experiences and nobody is denying them their experiences. But they are viewing it in a vacuum, denying the fact that it's not just them that get targeted as has been explained again and again. When you only know the colors black and white then you only see the world as black and white and don't understand there's more to it than that. Maybe YOU should start listening.