Help husband and I settle a huge argument over where to move!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The snobbery from people that live close in is really unbearable. If Ashburn is not for you, then don't move there. Thumbing your nose at those who chose to is not a good look.

This comment would make sense if the OP had not specifically asked for opinions on this topic.

[Anonymous]

If I were you, based on your initial post, I would look in McLean/Falls Church/Arlington/maybe even Vienna.

McLean is the no-brainer - location, schools, etc. are all good. You can also find homes in Arlington for 700k - I know because there are several in my neighborhood!

I have friends who live in Ashburn and they love their house and they do have friends who live out there, SAHMs, etc. but it sounds to me like you are more interested in getting out and about, staying connected to your current friends, and taking advantage of living in DC, all of which will be easier to do if you are closer in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:where is oakton?

Oakton is small and write next to Vienna. It almost looks like it's part of Vienna. Oakton is a great place to live (as is Vienna) but you get more house and land for the money in Oakton.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like you and your husband just have two very different perspectives... a HUGE difference. I'm not sure how you will find common ground.

We a small house in a close-in, near-Metro neighborhood in Arlington. I absolutely love living here. We've had some bad renovation projects (lots of time and frustration) and some things we've just accepted- but it is totally worth it. Ours was extremely affordable compared to other options close by- and I like having a small house because it means less cleaning, less clutter, and lower bills. I walk everywhere and like having a whole downtown section so close to our quiet neighborhood. My husband and I have more time together in the evening, and less stress when we sit down on the couch with our glasses of wine after an easy commute.

I know what you are saying about your husband's college friends and their big houses, however. My in-laws are from a much less expensive part of the country and cannot believe we live in such a small house, with our jobs. They do not understand the prices here, but more so, how going 2 or 5 miles can be a soul-sucking endeavor with the traffic here. It is just a different perspective- some people just INSIST on having the big house as a measure of success.

One of the many things I like about Arlington is that as a close-in, densely developed area, houses and neighborhoods are constantly being updated. The solid, post-war brick houses are constantly being renovated; some houses are torn down to build new ones. You can see that the neighborhoods will continue to look good and be functional 10, 20 years from now. Ashburn is not the same way- with a development of tract homes all built at the same time, cheaply constructed, the neighborhood will age in place. 10 or 20 years from now, the homes in Ashburn will look dated. Look at any subdivision built decades ago- it looks dated. The architecture isn't that good- faux colonials and too many gables, with an attached garage in front of the house.

Another reason I like our house? In an unexpected turn of the bad economy, my husband was laid off along with a whole bunch of others. Although that was never something that we'd planned for or expected, it turned out to be a very good thing that my salary could cover our expenses, so that my husband had the option to become self-employed/start his own business. Having smaller fixed monthly bills made pursuing his dream a real option. (I'm SO happy to give it a shot.. without having big stress in the process. )

If you don't mind answering, what is the square footage of your home?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like you and your husband just have two very different perspectives... a HUGE difference. I'm not sure how you will find common ground.

We a small house in a close-in, near-Metro neighborhood in Arlington. I absolutely love living here. We've had some bad renovation projects (lots of time and frustration) and some things we've just accepted- but it is totally worth it. Ours was extremely affordable compared to other options close by- and I like having a small house because it means less cleaning, less clutter, and lower bills. I walk everywhere and like having a whole downtown section so close to our quiet neighborhood. My husband and I have more time together in the evening, and less stress when we sit down on the couch with our glasses of wine after an easy commute.

I know what you are saying about your husband's college friends and their big houses, however. My in-laws are from a much less expensive part of the country and cannot believe we live in such a small house, with our jobs. They do not understand the prices here, but more so, how going 2 or 5 miles can be a soul-sucking endeavor with the traffic here. It is just a different perspective- some people just INSIST on having the big house as a measure of success.

One of the many things I like about Arlington is that as a close-in, densely developed area, houses and neighborhoods are constantly being updated. The solid, post-war brick houses are constantly being renovated; some houses are torn down to build new ones. You can see that the neighborhoods will continue to look good and be functional 10, 20 years from now. Ashburn is not the same way- with a development of tract homes all built at the same time, cheaply constructed, the neighborhood will age in place. 10 or 20 years from now, the homes in Ashburn will look dated. Look at any subdivision built decades ago- it looks dated. The architecture isn't that good- faux colonials and too many gables, with an attached garage in front of the house.

Another reason I like our house? In an unexpected turn of the bad economy, my husband was laid off along with a whole bunch of others. Although that was never something that we'd planned for or expected, it turned out to be a very good thing that my salary could cover our expenses, so that my husband had the option to become self-employed/start his own business. Having smaller fixed monthly bills made pursuing his dream a real option. (I'm SO happy to give it a shot.. without having big stress in the process. )

I agree with most of this and I live in Arlington as well and love it, but most people who buy in Arlington now will not be able to find anything under $600,000 which would most likely not offer the flexibility the pp talks about. I have a friend who bought in Ashburn the same year we bought in Arlington (2006) and we both paid the same amount for our houses - $590,000. The difference is ours is much smaller and older, but we obviously are much closer in. But we both have about the same mortgage.

[Anonymous]

Have you considered Reston? It is close enough to Ashburn and a manageable commute to Tysons. Your dollar will not go as far as it would in Ashburn but will go further than McLean/Bethesda. Zip code 20194 has an excellent elementary school in Fairfax County and a lot of young families live there. Plus it is half way between your two desired places so it sounds like the perfect compromise

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Have you considered Reston? It is close enough to Ashburn and a manageable commute to Tysons. Your dollar will not go as far as it would in Ashburn but will go further than McLean/Bethesda. Zip code 20194 has an excellent elementary school in Fairfax County and a lot of young families live there. Plus it is half way between your two desired places so it sounds like the perfect compromise

Isn't South Lakes High School not a very good high school though? Anyone have first hand experience here? This is the reason we didn't decide to buy in Reston...plus, there are very few SFH is Reston. Apparently, the Reston Association has put a moratorium on new homes in Reston since the late 80s. You'd probably have more luck looking at Herndon for a SFH. But I don't think the Herndon high school is ranked very highly either.

[Anonymous]

I've lived in Reston for 9 years - South Lakes High is really, really improving and now has IB & AP programs - and more than a handful of ivy league grads every year. Our magnet, accolade-winning elementary school is the reason lots of people move to South Reston.

Reston has a ton of woodsy, 5-BR SFH like mine, so please check your facts. Yes these houses often need renovating just like many Arlington houses, and we're doing so. I admit my downtown commute sucks, but I work from home once a week and DH's commute to Springfield is 40 min. Everything has a compromise and I do love hanging out by our swingset.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Not to be snarky, but hasn't this always been the case? I thought it was always desirable to be closer to the city, no one likes a bad commute. I mean, I realize that decades ago traffic wasn't as bad of a problem, so some of the outer burbs did not seem that unappealing, but it seems like it's always been the case that rich people live in the cities (look at Georgetown, near AU, Chevy Chase DC, and so on) and then pay for private schools and can pay to park their car, etc. and also of course there are poor parts of the city and everything in between. But I don't think anyone would be shocked that Gaithersburg is not the up-and-coming place to be. Not knocking Gaithersburg but I've always thought of it as an affordable, reasonable place to live and not the place where the rich flock to.

I guess I'm saying I think this trend started way, way before the housing market crashed.

No, it hasn't always been the case. Ever since the federal government subsidized the highway system and cheap mortgages, the middle and upper-middle class left downtowns for the white-picket fence American Dream. The decline was accelerated after the MLK riots. Even now, the scars from that era are finally being healed on H Street. So no, it has not always been the case, but as the suburbs have grown, lifestyles have become increasingly dependent on single-occupancy vehicles. At some point, gas and tolls (much less maintainence and insurance) will be much more expensive relative to other household expenses, When considering where to live, location and access to transportation options will be stronger considerations than they are today.

Wow, then I feel way ahead of the curve! When DH and I decided to buy a house years ago and move from our one bedroom in DC, our criteria was very close in and within walking distance to a metro. I knew we would never be able to afford it (and was fine with that, I wanted to buy a town house or an apt.) and DH said we would. He was right, we did, and I am so glad we did. I promised myself when I was young that if we ever found ourselves commuting for an hour we would have to move. I just can't do it. We are pretty much planning on staying in our house until we leave the area, if that ever happens. Yes, it's small, but we are adapting.

The entire region is trending this way. The traffic congestion is just not going to be feasible in another decade. And while DC has a *lot* of room for poor and working class, increasingly they're being displaced to the suburbs. This is going to have a snowballing effect. Soon there'll be rich and poor areas of the burbs, but the city will be increasingly middle- to upper-class.

[Anonymous]

The entire region is trending this way. The traffic congestion is just not going to be feasible in another decade. And while DC has a *lot* of room for poor and working class, increasingly they're being displaced to the suburbs. This is going to have a snowballing effect. Soon there'll be rich and poor areas of the burbs, but the city will be increasingly middle- to upper-class.

You are missing an important part of urban planning and demographic prediction. More jobs are being located outside DC. Obviously congress, the lobbyists, district government jobs, and a handful of law firms will always be located in DC but the job growth in the area has all been out in the suburbs. The poor public schools in the city are another very strong driver for people to move towards the suburbs. Very, very cities have seen the type of trend that you are decribing where the majority of the city becomes upper and middle class.

[Anonymous]

The poor public schools in the city are another very strong driver for people to move towards the suburbs.

You're mistaking cause and effect. Twenty years ago there were maybe 5 elementary schools a middle-class parent could send their kid to in DC. The schools in MoCo were almost uniformly excellent. Now more and more DC schools are becoming options, and there are schools in MoCo you wouldn't send your kids to. The poor population of DC is rapidly shrinking. It's median income is rapidly growing. Those folks have to go somewhere, and they're going to the suburbs.

We're talking about future trends, which are pretty clear. The claim that "very few cities have seen the type of trend you are describing" is irrelevant. DC happens to be one in the midst of such a realignment. This may not take place in, say, Detroit, but I never said it would be the case for every city.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have lived in NOVA for the past 15 years. Traffic is a pain sometimes but, I find it manageable. I flex my hours. I use HOV. I really don't find traffic to be that bad. I live in FFX city and commute to DC every day. Takes me about 40 minutes each way, which I don't find overly burdensome.

Also, I don't know where you live, but FFX city, where I live, is definitely not "soulless". We have a wonderful, small town style community.

Well, many of us cannot flex their hours or get in a carpool to use HOV. The majority of people are going to experience the bad traffic. If I drive from my house in Fairfax to DC during rush hour, it takes me at least 1 1/2 hours.

Anyone can get in a carpool if they so choose. It takes me 45 minutes to get from my house in Springfield to my job in DC. I used to think the same way as you until I discovered slugging, express buses etc. Now I know better.

I used to be in a carpool and it wasn't convenient. I can't always drop what I'm doing at work to run out the door right at 5:30 to catch a carpool. I don't drive to work often, but when I do it takes and hour and a half. I either drive to the Vienna metro and park, or take the bus to the Pentagon, then catch the subway. I do not live near an express bus stop. In either case it takes longer than 45 minutes. Not everyone lives in your exact location with the convenience of flexible hours.

Everything comes with a price. A close in house has a price. A far out house has a price. Convenience has a price. You are dealing with the consequences of your choices. That's fine.

And by the way don't they have a commuter connections, "Guaranteed ride home" program for those times when you can't get out the door? A

nd the more people who make a good case to their employers for flexible hours, the more often it will be offered. I understand everyone's circumstances are different. But don't bitch about your commute if you are not willing to make changes because they aren't "convenient". I personally don't take metro because I can't drink a GD cup of cofffee on the ride. That's a luxury I am not willing to sacrifice. So I pay the price - I have to drive. I have to accept the consequence of my choice. I don't bitch about it (but I did write to Metro with a great money making scheme for them to sell coffee INSIDE the Metro stations... no dice

[Anonymous]

I can see that most of the responses have come from city dwellers.
My take on it is that living in the far flung suburbs is great, and could not be better. I get the feeling of small town America, and if I want, the big city is here, I might have to drive, but so what?
There could not be a better place for my family, I feel less stress than I would if I lived in dc, less judgemental attitudes, less snoburbanites, etc
You are buying a lifestyle. I recommend it
And the reason why it has worked out so great for us, is that we do not work in dc, but in the outer areas of the city where there are a lot of jobs

I would suggest you do not give up on Ashton immediately

[Anonymous]

OP with an update- I'm sure so many of you were waiting on the edge of your seats, LOL! We looked at a ton of houses this spring, from Bethesda to Vienna, from Arlington to Ashburn, from Mclean to Oak Hill and everywhere in between. Due to some unexpected in-law issues, we had less money to spend and our budget was around 650k. We finally compromised and bought a house in... Reston! Although outside the beltway, we got a great house with a large backyard and the commute won't be too terrible for my husband. We bought on a cul-de-sac with lots of other young families (at least 12 kids on the street under the age of 8) and we move in Monday! We are super excited- although Ashburn was lovely, it was just too far (and the lots are tiny!) and we were priced out of Mclean and most of the inner 'burbs. A good compromise, I think! Thanks for all the responses, it really did help to convince my husband that AShburn was too far and we needed to stay a bit closer for investment purposes and family!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The snobbery from people that live close in is really unbearable. If Ashburn is not for you, then don't move there. Thumbing your nose at those who chose to is not a good look.

Oh, get over yourself. The OP was asking for advice. Pointing out that in 5-10 years that area will be a traffic-choked Hell-hole similar to the Dumfries-Quantico-Triangle corridor, with much higher fuel costs is perfectly legitimate. It's just a bad time to buy into the Ponzi scheme that is the exurbs.