Grey divorces

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What’s “worrisome” about this?

OP here. We know these couples for a long time and to us they looked average (some of them even happy), not in deep troubles so we were very surprised at first.
At least in my circle, after divorce some of them shared they are struggling financially while others have very obvious mental health issues (not sure if new issues or if issues were there before and spiraled after divorce)

But this doesn’t seem unique to grey divorces.

Sorry, my quoting was messed up.

This just doesn’t seem unique to grey divorces. I was a kid in the late 70s/early 80s when divorce rates skyrocketed among couples in their 30s and early 40s, and financial struggles happened, mental health issues happened.

The only thing that has change is women have autonomy and they can leave now and they can afford it.

By taking half of the money their husbands made.

Well, my STBX husband wants to take half the money I made so it goes both ways. Losers who can’t provide for themselves love to exploit others for their money.

[Anonymous]

The older I get the less I see the value in staying with someone who makes you miserable for 30, 40, 50 years. Like yayyy you are slightly less miserable in old age because you’ve both run out of steam, congratulations! 🎈

Either both parties should put in the work to make the marriage positive or get out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What’s “worrisome” about this?

OP here. We know these couples for a long time and to us they looked average (some of them even happy), not in deep troubles so we were very surprised at first.
At least in my circle, after divorce some of them shared they are struggling financially while others have very obvious mental health issues (not sure if new issues or if issues were there before and spiraled after divorce)

Grey divorce does not scream “deep troubles”, but more often of drifting apart, finishing obligations and realizing they don’t have much in common, other than minor or major irritations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I also think sometimes couples just have very different needs and perceptions of whether a marriage is "happy" or not. I have friends who are now getting divorced who were married for three decades. She thinks they were happy and is baffled. He thinks he's been unhappy for at least two of the last three decades and stayed because of the kids. They both agree marriage was mostly sexless. She thought that was fine and they were both okay with it. He thought it was not fine and he was lonely. She thought he was easygoing because he always let her get her way. He thought she was controlling because she got pissed off when he did not do what she wanted.

I think both of them have crappy communication skills and took each other for granted: it's like they never actually sat down and had a conversation about what they each wanted and needed, what was working, what was not. Maybe they could have made it a good and enduring marriage if they had talked about those things decades ago. They're both decent people. I don't think either of them hates the other or behaved abusively or badly. I think they just somehow managed to go through decades of marriage without actually talking about what they wanted. Which is mind-blowing.

So now she is shocked and mad and he is relieved to be out but wracked by guilt. I suspect they will both get over it and they will each find someone better suited. I just hope they have both become learned some lessons during the process. I definitely don't think they should have stayed together, though: the marriage was built on a set of mutual false assumptions.

Obviously you know these people and I don’t, but I think women who never have sex with a willing husband are either extremely stupid or don’t care about their husband’s happiness and then express “confusion” to their friends as a cover when their husbands leave. Have these women never met a man? Why on earth do they think their husbands would be happy with no sex? They actually don’t care about the person they are living with or are too stupid to be married.

A study was done on this and it's because the men are mean to their wives. The study wasn't even to find why women were not having sex, the study was to find a drug like Viagra. In the end, the researchers said "there is not drug on earth that will help women have sex with an a-hole".

If your wife isn't having sex look in the mirror.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I also think sometimes couples just have very different needs and perceptions of whether a marriage is "happy" or not. I have friends who are now getting divorced who were married for three decades. She thinks they were happy and is baffled. He thinks he's been unhappy for at least two of the last three decades and stayed because of the kids. They both agree marriage was mostly sexless. She thought that was fine and they were both okay with it. He thought it was not fine and he was lonely. She thought he was easygoing because he always let her get her way. He thought she was controlling because she got pissed off when he did not do what she wanted.

I think both of them have crappy communication skills and took each other for granted: it's like they never actually sat down and had a conversation about what they each wanted and needed, what was working, what was not. Maybe they could have made it a good and enduring marriage if they had talked about those things decades ago. They're both decent people. I don't think either of them hates the other or behaved abusively or badly. I think they just somehow managed to go through decades of marriage without actually talking about what they wanted. Which is mind-blowing.

So now she is shocked and mad and he is relieved to be out but wracked by guilt. I suspect they will both get over it and they will each find someone better suited. I just hope they have both become learned some lessons during the process. I definitely don't think they should have stayed together, though: the marriage was built on a set of mutual false assumptions.

Obviously you know these people and I don’t, but I think women who never have sex with a willing husband are either extremely stupid or don’t care about their husband’s happiness and then express “confusion” to their friends as a cover when their husbands leave. Have these women never met a man? Why on earth do they think their husbands would be happy with no sex? They actually don’t care about the person they are living with or are too stupid to be married.

+1. I am skeptical about the PP’s statements that these two didn’t really talk about it. What your friend thought is that she could ignore her husband’s desires, not just sex but for things to go how he’d like on occasion in their life together, and he would still stay forever and forever in those conditions. I bet it’s more likely that they did talk about it but she thought her own wishes trumped his.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I also think sometimes couples just have very different needs and perceptions of whether a marriage is "happy" or not. I have friends who are now getting divorced who were married for three decades. She thinks they were happy and is baffled. He thinks he's been unhappy for at least two of the last three decades and stayed because of the kids. They both agree marriage was mostly sexless. She thought that was fine and they were both okay with it. He thought it was not fine and he was lonely. She thought he was easygoing because he always let her get her way. He thought she was controlling because she got pissed off when he did not do what she wanted.

I think both of them have crappy communication skills and took each other for granted: it's like they never actually sat down and had a conversation about what they each wanted and needed, what was working, what was not. Maybe they could have made it a good and enduring marriage if they had talked about those things decades ago. They're both decent people. I don't think either of them hates the other or behaved abusively or badly. I think they just somehow managed to go through decades of marriage without actually talking about what they wanted. Which is mind-blowing.

So now she is shocked and mad and he is relieved to be out but wracked by guilt. I suspect they will both get over it and they will each find someone better suited. I just hope they have both become learned some lessons during the process. I definitely don't think they should have stayed together, though: the marriage was built on a set of mutual false assumptions.

Obviously you know these people and I don’t, but I think women who never have sex with a willing husband are either extremely stupid or don’t care about their husband’s happiness and then express “confusion” to their friends as a cover when their husbands leave. Have these women never met a man? Why on earth do they think their husbands would be happy with no sex? They actually don’t care about the person they are living with or are too stupid to be married.

A study was done on this and it's because the men are mean to their wives. The study wasn't even to find why women were not having sex, the study was to find a drug like Viagra. In the end, the researchers said "there is not drug on earth that will help women have sex with an a-hole".

If your wife isn't having sex look in the mirror.

If that were true, then she should be relieved to be parting ways with an AH, not shocked and mad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I didn't say they have miserable lives or even miserable marriages I just said they don't have happy marriages and most older couples live separate lives together.

The bolder seems to me a complete overstatement. I am in a very happy 30+ year marriage where we still enjoy spending most of our free time together. I see almost all of our good friends are in the same exact situation - we dine out together, vacation in groups, play pickleball together, etc., and all of us do appear happy and none of the couples are living separately at all. I see the same with my siblings and their friends. Most of these couples are/were professionals (lawyers/doctors/business owners) and I do think that being financially comfortable is a benefit to a happier relationship (since there is no financial stress).

I play pickleball, the H are not there.
I dine out, the H are not there
I vacation with friends, the H are not there
Most my friends are wealthy.

Men slow down faster than women even men of the same age. They will go to a 4th of july party or maybe superbowl sunday. But week by week, they are not doing anything together.

Also, my most happy friend's H just got a new job with a bad commute and she is encouraging him to buy a condo close to work so he doesn't have to deal with traffic on his work in the office day.. they have money to burn... his response "that would make you happy wouldn't it"... wait she is thinking of you. This is "happy: when you empty nest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Planned well how?

The post was about living TOGETHER in retirement.

Most people want to leave money to their kids. Many people do not up-size their expenditures in retirement, even if they could, because it's not a good look.

Nah, couples are not living in a financially cramped manner so they can leave money to their kids. I have not met anyone who is not spending in retirement because it’s “not a good look.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I also think sometimes couples just have very different needs and perceptions of whether a marriage is "happy" or not. I have friends who are now getting divorced who were married for three decades. She thinks they were happy and is baffled. He thinks he's been unhappy for at least two of the last three decades and stayed because of the kids. They both agree marriage was mostly sexless. She thought that was fine and they were both okay with it. He thought it was not fine and he was lonely. She thought he was easygoing because he always let her get her way. He thought she was controlling because she got pissed off when he did not do what she wanted.

I think both of them have crappy communication skills and took each other for granted: it's like they never actually sat down and had a conversation about what they each wanted and needed, what was working, what was not. Maybe they could have made it a good and enduring marriage if they had talked about those things decades ago. They're both decent people. I don't think either of them hates the other or behaved abusively or badly. I think they just somehow managed to go through decades of marriage without actually talking about what they wanted. Which is mind-blowing.

So now she is shocked and mad and he is relieved to be out but wracked by guilt. I suspect they will both get over it and they will each find someone better suited. I just hope they have both become learned some lessons during the process. I definitely don't think they should have stayed together, though: the marriage was built on a set of mutual false assumptions.

Are you their therapist? I mean you sure know a lot about both. You talk to both of them about their sex lives?

[Anonymous]

OP I did not expect this thread to snowball like this. I guess grey divorces are more common or more discussed than I ever expected

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I also think sometimes couples just have very different needs and perceptions of whether a marriage is "happy" or not. I have friends who are now getting divorced who were married for three decades. She thinks they were happy and is baffled. He thinks he's been unhappy for at least two of the last three decades and stayed because of the kids. They both agree marriage was mostly sexless. She thought that was fine and they were both okay with it. He thought it was not fine and he was lonely. She thought he was easygoing because he always let her get her way. He thought she was controlling because she got pissed off when he did not do what she wanted.

I think both of them have crappy communication skills and took each other for granted: it's like they never actually sat down and had a conversation about what they each wanted and needed, what was working, what was not. Maybe they could have made it a good and enduring marriage if they had talked about those things decades ago. They're both decent people. I don't think either of them hates the other or behaved abusively or badly. I think they just somehow managed to go through decades of marriage without actually talking about what they wanted. Which is mind-blowing.

So now she is shocked and mad and he is relieved to be out but wracked by guilt. I suspect they will both get over it and they will each find someone better suited. I just hope they have both become learned some lessons during the process. I definitely don't think they should have stayed together, though: the marriage was built on a set of mutual false assumptions.

Obviously you know these people and I don’t, but I think women who never have sex with a willing husband are either extremely stupid or don’t care about their husband’s happiness and then express “confusion” to their friends as a cover when their husbands leave. Have these women never met a man? Why on earth do they think their husbands would be happy with no sex? They actually don’t care about the person they are living with or are too stupid to be married.

DP. I know of a similar situation, but the twist to this was that the husband cited lack of sex, but over the years never suggested he wanted a change in the dynamic. Health issues were a significant complicating factor for him. Wife assumed that husband was just not attracted to her anymore. They'd both gained weight, got old, etc. So when he left, citing lack of sex, she was shocked and hurt and very angry. Turns out, there was someone else and he remarried immediately. Surprise, surprise, surprise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP I did not expect this thread to snowball like this. I guess grey divorces are more common or more discussed than I ever expected

I am a future grey divorcee. Once we’ve satisfied our obligations to our kids to provide them with a stable home and get them launched into college, I am out. Our incompatibilities have magnified overtime and I’ve realized that I’d rather have a peaceful single life, than live with a husband who causes me so much stress. Even though they’ve been a higher earner in our marriage, they are also a reckless over spender, and once they retire and are on a fixed income, they are going to spend themselves into the poor house because they have definitely not saved enough to live their current lifestyle in retirement. I don’t wan to be around for that blowup. Moreover, we don’t have a shared vision for how we want to live in our grey years. They want to spend all their time at golf courses and I want to travel and knockout as many bucket list items as I can before it’s too late. So there’s really nothing keeping us together once we finish raising our kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I also think sometimes couples just have very different needs and perceptions of whether a marriage is "happy" or not. I have friends who are now getting divorced who were married for three decades. She thinks they were happy and is baffled. He thinks he's been unhappy for at least two of the last three decades and stayed because of the kids. They both agree marriage was mostly sexless. She thought that was fine and they were both okay with it. He thought it was not fine and he was lonely. She thought he was easygoing because he always let her get her way. He thought she was controlling because she got pissed off when he did not do what she wanted.

I think both of them have crappy communication skills and took each other for granted: it's like they never actually sat down and had a conversation about what they each wanted and needed, what was working, what was not. Maybe they could have made it a good and enduring marriage if they had talked about those things decades ago. They're both decent people. I don't think either of them hates the other or behaved abusively or badly. I think they just somehow managed to go through decades of marriage without actually talking about what they wanted. Which is mind-blowing.

So now she is shocked and mad and he is relieved to be out but wracked by guilt. I suspect they will both get over it and they will each find someone better suited. I just hope they have both become learned some lessons during the process. I definitely don't think they should have stayed together, though: the marriage was built on a set of mutual false assumptions.

Obviously you know these people and I don’t, but I think women who never have sex with a willing husband are either extremely stupid or don’t care about their husband’s happiness and then express “confusion” to their friends as a cover when their husbands leave. Have these women never met a man? Why on earth do they think their husbands would be happy with no sex? They actually don’t care about the person they are living with or are too stupid to be married.

DP. I know of a similar situation, but the twist to this was that the husband cited lack of sex, but over the years never suggested he wanted a change in the dynamic. Health issues were a significant complicating factor for him. Wife assumed that husband was just not attracted to her anymore. They'd both gained weight, got old, etc. So when he left, citing lack of sex, she was shocked and hurt and very angry. Turns out, there was someone else and he remarried immediately. Surprise, surprise, surprise.

Yeah, this story is as old as time. They want sex, just not with their spouses.

[Anonymous]

I play pickleball, the H are not there.
I dine out, the H are not there
I vacation with friends, the H are not there
Most my friends are wealthy.

Men slow down faster than women even men of the same age. They will go to a 4th of july party or maybe superbowl sunday. But week by week, they are not doing anything together.

Also, my most happy friend's H just got a new job with a bad commute and she is encouraging him to buy a condo close to work so he doesn't have to deal with traffic on his work in the office day.. they have money to burn... his response "that would make you happy wouldn't it"... wait she is thinking of you. This is "happy: when you empty nest.

You keep making blanket statements about how all couples are, what all couples do, and now about how men are as they age. My earlier post was meant to point out that your experience, although expressed as an absolute universal one, is definitely not. You just clearly have a different kind of friend group than my spouse and I do - we have seven different couples that we vacation with every year, four from the DMV, and none of them have the kind of (crappy) relationship you describe. I’m sorry all those women are not in fulfilling relationships, but it’s pretty unlikely that in each case it’s the husband’s problem (I’m a woman, btw).

[Anonymous]

I play pickleball, the H are not there.
I dine out, the H are not there
I vacation with friends, the H are not there
Most my friends are wealthy.

Men slow down faster than women even men of the same age. They will go to a 4th of july party or maybe superbowl sunday. But week by week, they are not doing anything together.

Also, my most happy friend's H just got a new job with a bad commute and she is encouraging him to buy a condo close to work so he doesn't have to deal with traffic on his work in the office day.. they have money to burn... his response "that would make you happy wouldn't it"... wait she is thinking of you. This is "happy: when you empty nest.

The DHs are working while you play pickleball, dine out, and vacation. So, week by week, they are still at the office slugging it out.

Most men would slow down less if they worked less.