Preparing for first confession after many years, and having an issue.

[Anonymous]

OP here. Wow! I didn’t realize this thread would blow up so much. I appreciate those who have left comments. I am also sorry to read about the atrocities some of you personally have experienced at the hands of the church. The purpose of my thread was not to bash Catholicism or necessarily defend it, just sharing a specific issue I am encountering.

I have a lot to think over, but on a positive note: I have found that confession was a good starting point to reevaluate some of the other sins in my life. I tend to be selfish and unkind to others (cursing a lot, road rage, judgemental) and I’ve definitely thought twice about those things since going. So that is a positive thing at least. I am still seeking out some other priests to talk to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Wow! I didn’t realize this thread would blow up so much. I appreciate those who have left comments. I am also sorry to read about the atrocities some of you personally have experienced at the hands of the church. The purpose of my thread was not to bash Catholicism or necessarily defend it, just sharing a specific issue I am encountering.

I have a lot to think over, but on a positive note: I have found that confession was a good starting point to reevaluate some of the other sins in my life. I tend to be selfish and unkind to others (cursing a lot, road rage, judgemental) and I’ve definitely thought twice about those things since going. So that is a positive thing at least. I am still seeking out some other priests to talk to.

You are way too hard on yourself. Work on that. None of those things require a priest.

And...unless you are on a Southwest flight cursing out the flight attendant because of something stupid, or you have gotten out of your car on Rockville Pike with a gun, threatening someone who cut you off, or making snap decisions about people and acting on them, you are behaving fairly normally and, like all of us, can put yourself in check sometimes. But- yeah, you can drop the F bomb when you lose your keys, and say uncharitable things to the nutso driver who passed you in a non passing lane-in the company of yourself in your car, and certainly entertain your internal metacognitive side when talking to people ( "Boy this person might never stop talking! How do I exit this conversation at this party? " or "Why does her hair remind me of a mushroom?")

Lastly, you do not want a baby right now, and that is your choice and only your choice. Not the church's choice, not the priest's choice, or the church lady that has showed up here in a big way- or even your husband's choice (he doesn't carry this baby, nor does he give birth..) It's your choice only.

Nope, none of these are sins. You are not a bad person. You are absolutely normal, and you are OK, and probably quite kind, OP. You are not going to h#ll, but that's a whole different thread. Not even going there, today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I would suggest natural family planning. Especially since you plan to try for a baby soon, I'm not sure why this is such a big deal right now. NFP is helpful anyways for learning about your body, and it will help you GET pregnant as much as AVOID getting pregnant. Just read the book Taking Charge of Your Fertility. It is not religious, not connect to CC. It is just science and important info about the female body. https://www.amazon.com/Taking-Charge-Your-Fertility-Anniversary/dp/0062326031/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1LOGJP05COAFA&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.KZYy0w0L9GiAkmKQuFtMIf1645s-MkMj8u6S9rpU8PDdbWOgTXgd6EnLhLnxgqUrZ2MvgqB1-s6DcE_aeJ8vnAbnru5tC8ZepzfF_HD8xInxLZbX_LN8BHK7XKe2Fk64aSmVS2dl62dgVumjv4tZLNg3OR63DM6UiN__yObPWmbhQrmCRVpZ9H7Ee6T7X8yQPA9UHGvKrA8QPV7qdSL17ztQ1hYBe44QnC8mEtzJW-4.hIelKD3f75I63HoHIqP7s3R5-OYtmleAuTQdabtyhGo&dib_tag=se&keywords=taking+control+of+your+fertility&qid=1756922947&sprefix=taking+control+of+your+fertility%2Caps%2C107&sr=8-1

I don't know about you, but I expect the success rate for contraceptives to be much, much higher than the success rate of conception. Saying it works as well for both suggests an awfully low bar.

The reason NFP works in both directions so to speak is that it identifies the “fertile window” of a relatively few days each month when a woman can become pregnant. If she wants to defer pregnancy, she avoids relations during that window. If she wants to become pregnant she times relations for when the target is in range. This latter approach is hardly unique to NFP users. Many women hoping to become pregnant use various methods to identify ovulation, such as test sticks.

Yes, and in practice it has a very high failure rate.

I would think anyone staunchly opposed to abortion would want to see highly effective contraception.

Did you read the “Humanae Vitae”someone else linked to earlier in this thread? It explains why the Catholic Church is opposed to both abortion and contraception. It’s pretty accurate in its predictions on how the widespread use of both would change society.
1) general moral degradation including an increase in infidelity, pre-marital pregnancy, and divorce.

2). The loss of respect for women and an increase in violence toward women.

3). Government/public authorities imposing contraception or sterilization on its citizens. This hasn’t happened in the western world, but there is certainly a social enforcement of contraceptive use for both married and unmarried women.

4). General loss of respect for human life including loss of respect for the elderly.

So, this makes sense on a social level. But I don’t know that it makes sense on an individual level when you live in a society where unplanned pregnancies, even within a marriage, are seen as almost immoral.

It makes sense on a social level? Really? Written by a celibate man in 1968- the time when unplanned pregnancies by unmarried women were seen as immoral, with children being sold into adoption after decades of doing this in Europe and here in the US. Maternity homes run by nuns in Ireland are filled with unmarked graves now found to contain baby corpses. Women shamed for being unmarried and pregnant, but men moving on with their lives and antics despite being married themselves. Don't even try to discuss infidelity- DNA has arrived to uncover the truth about how people behaved under the cloak of the seemingly married, pious, and the righteous. Yes, all those secrets are out now. You don't get an opportunity here to discuss what is moral in the slightest. You have ZERO voice.

So- sit TF down and stop talking about the sanctimony of human life when you aren't prepared to understand what that means. We are no longer listening to men, especially sanctimonious religious men who protected thousands upon thousands of priests while they raped and abused women and children all over the world for centuries- and are still doing it. The abuse, the subtrefuge, the murder, the hypocrisy, all in the name of God is epic and disgusting.

Women are in charge of their own bodies and their own life. They will not be judged, shamed, or labeled anymore. They have full worth whether they are unmarried, married, a parent or childless. It's time for the secrets, lies, abuse, misogyny to be over. So, sometimes that does come in the form of an IUD, and that has nothing to do with sin, priests, or any religion. We see where the sins are, and it's not an IUD.

OP, you keep your IUD and self worth.

Well stated, Thank you. DNA testing, i.e., science, has changed everything, as it should. People are no longer stuck in ignorance.

If the Catholic Church is going to claim that science interferes with god's will and divine design, then that philosophy should be consistently applied beyond women. But I'm sure the men in the Catholic Church find it much easier to tell women what they can and can't do than to accept the loss of antibiotics, cholesterol medication, and viagra.

The Catholic Church doesn’t say that science interferes with God’s will. The Catholic Church believes that it is the main purpose of human beings to fully connect with their humanity, body and soul. They believe that the body and soul are inherently connected, hence all of the kneeling and standing during prayers and the taking of Christ’s body into their own corporeal body.
The Catholic Church believes that sex between a man and a woman is inherently beautiful and a divine gift, and that part of what makes it beautiful is the possibility of creating life. Purposefully rendering yourself sterile in order to disconnect sex from procreation reduces its value and beauty for the couple.

The Catholic church has already connected with enough bodies. Little bodies.

Secondly, no, it's really not about being able to procreate. If that were true, infertile couples, older couples, gay couples ( yeah I said it), disabled couples should have no reason to have sex at all.
Yes, I already know their stance on LGTBQ, but, again, major hypocrisy.

No one said that sex is always about procreation. Just that it isn’t good for people to purposefully sterilize themselves so that they can uncouple sex and procreation.

Frankly, I don’t actually agree with this, but the discussion would be a lot more interesting if we could get on the same page.

The Catholic Church believes that sex between a man and a woman is inherently beautiful and a divine gift, and that part of what makes it beautiful is the possibility of creating life. Purposefully rendering yourself sterile in order to disconnect sex from procreation reduces its value and beauty for the couple.

Is there any misunderstanding here? I think not. Stop gaslighting.

NFP is purposefully disconnecting sex from procreation, too. It involves deliberate effort specifically intended to prevent conception.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I would suggest natural family planning. Especially since you plan to try for a baby soon, I'm not sure why this is such a big deal right now. NFP is helpful anyways for learning about your body, and it will help you GET pregnant as much as AVOID getting pregnant. Just read the book Taking Charge of Your Fertility. It is not religious, not connect to CC. It is just science and important info about the female body. https://www.amazon.com/Taking-Charge-Your-Fertility-Anniversary/dp/0062326031/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1LOGJP05COAFA&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.KZYy0w0L9GiAkmKQuFtMIf1645s-MkMj8u6S9rpU8PDdbWOgTXgd6EnLhLnxgqUrZ2MvgqB1-s6DcE_aeJ8vnAbnru5tC8ZepzfF_HD8xInxLZbX_LN8BHK7XKe2Fk64aSmVS2dl62dgVumjv4tZLNg3OR63DM6UiN__yObPWmbhQrmCRVpZ9H7Ee6T7X8yQPA9UHGvKrA8QPV7qdSL17ztQ1hYBe44QnC8mEtzJW-4.hIelKD3f75I63HoHIqP7s3R5-OYtmleAuTQdabtyhGo&dib_tag=se&keywords=taking+control+of+your+fertility&qid=1756922947&sprefix=taking+control+of+your+fertility%2Caps%2C107&sr=8-1

I don't know about you, but I expect the success rate for contraceptives to be much, much higher than the success rate of conception. Saying it works as well for both suggests an awfully low bar.

The reason NFP works in both directions so to speak is that it identifies the “fertile window” of a relatively few days each month when a woman can become pregnant. If she wants to defer pregnancy, she avoids relations during that window. If she wants to become pregnant she times relations for when the target is in range. This latter approach is hardly unique to NFP users. Many women hoping to become pregnant use various methods to identify ovulation, such as test sticks.

Yes, and in practice it has a very high failure rate.

I would think anyone staunchly opposed to abortion would want to see highly effective contraception.

Did you read the “Humanae Vitae”someone else linked to earlier in this thread? It explains why the Catholic Church is opposed to both abortion and contraception. It’s pretty accurate in its predictions on how the widespread use of both would change society.
1) general moral degradation including an increase in infidelity, pre-marital pregnancy, and divorce.

2). The loss of respect for women and an increase in violence toward women.

3). Government/public authorities imposing contraception or sterilization on its citizens. This hasn’t happened in the western world, but there is certainly a social enforcement of contraceptive use for both married and unmarried women.

4). General loss of respect for human life including loss of respect for the elderly.

So, this makes sense on a social level. But I don’t know that it makes sense on an individual level when you live in a society where unplanned pregnancies, even within a marriage, are seen as almost immoral.

It makes sense on a social level? Really? Written by a celibate man in 1968- the time when unplanned pregnancies by unmarried women were seen as immoral, with children being sold into adoption after decades of doing this in Europe and here in the US. Maternity homes run by nuns in Ireland are filled with unmarked graves now found to contain baby corpses. Women shamed for being unmarried and pregnant, but men moving on with their lives and antics despite being married themselves. Don't even try to discuss infidelity- DNA has arrived to uncover the truth about how people behaved under the cloak of the seemingly married, pious, and the righteous. Yes, all those secrets are out now. You don't get an opportunity here to discuss what is moral in the slightest. You have ZERO voice.

So- sit TF down and stop talking about the sanctimony of human life when you aren't prepared to understand what that means. We are no longer listening to men, especially sanctimonious religious men who protected thousands upon thousands of priests while they raped and abused women and children all over the world for centuries- and are still doing it. The abuse, the subtrefuge, the murder, the hypocrisy, all in the name of God is epic and disgusting.

Women are in charge of their own bodies and their own life. They will not be judged, shamed, or labeled anymore. They have full worth whether they are unmarried, married, a parent or childless. It's time for the secrets, lies, abuse, misogyny to be over. So, sometimes that does come in the form of an IUD, and that has nothing to do with sin, priests, or any religion. We see where the sins are, and it's not an IUD.

OP, you keep your IUD and self worth.

Well stated, Thank you. DNA testing, i.e., science, has changed everything, as it should. People are no longer stuck in ignorance.

If the Catholic Church is going to claim that science interferes with god's will and divine design, then that philosophy should be consistently applied beyond women. But I'm sure the men in the Catholic Church find it much easier to tell women what they can and can't do than to accept the loss of antibiotics, cholesterol medication, and viagra.

The Catholic Church doesn’t say that science interferes with God’s will. The Catholic Church believes that it is the main purpose of human beings to fully connect with their humanity, body and soul. They believe that the body and soul are inherently connected, hence all of the kneeling and standing during prayers and the taking of Christ’s body into their own corporeal body.
The Catholic Church believes that sex between a man and a woman is inherently beautiful and a divine gift, and that part of what makes it beautiful is the possibility of creating life. Purposefully rendering yourself sterile in order to disconnect sex from procreation reduces its value and beauty for the couple.

The Catholic church has already connected with enough bodies. Little bodies.

Secondly, no, it's really not about being able to procreate. If that were true, infertile couples, older couples, gay couples ( yeah I said it), disabled couples should have no reason to have sex at all.
Yes, I already know their stance on LGTBQ, but, again, major hypocrisy.

No one said that sex is always about procreation. Just that it isn’t good for people to purposefully sterilize themselves so that they can uncouple sex and procreation.

Frankly, I don’t actually agree with this, but the discussion would be a lot more interesting if we could get on the same page.

The Catholic Church believes that sex between a man and a woman is inherently beautiful and a divine gift, and that part of what makes it beautiful is the possibility of creating life. Purposefully rendering yourself sterile in order to disconnect sex from procreation reduces its value and beauty for the couple.

Is there any misunderstanding here? I think not. Stop gaslighting.

NFP is purposefully disconnecting sex from procreation, too. It involves deliberate effort specifically intended to prevent conception.

+1. It also “works” by avoiding sex at the time the woman would be most receptive and find it most pleasurable. So not only is it a cheap work around, it is actively denying women the pleasure God intended to give them in the marital act.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I would suggest natural family planning. Especially since you plan to try for a baby soon, I'm not sure why this is such a big deal right now. NFP is helpful anyways for learning about your body, and it will help you GET pregnant as much as AVOID getting pregnant. Just read the book Taking Charge of Your Fertility. It is not religious, not connect to CC. It is just science and important info about the female body. https://www.amazon.com/Taking-Charge-Your-Fertility-Anniversary/dp/0062326031/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1LOGJP05COAFA&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.KZYy0w0L9GiAkmKQuFtMIf1645s-MkMj8u6S9rpU8PDdbWOgTXgd6EnLhLnxgqUrZ2MvgqB1-s6DcE_aeJ8vnAbnru5tC8ZepzfF_HD8xInxLZbX_LN8BHK7XKe2Fk64aSmVS2dl62dgVumjv4tZLNg3OR63DM6UiN__yObPWmbhQrmCRVpZ9H7Ee6T7X8yQPA9UHGvKrA8QPV7qdSL17ztQ1hYBe44QnC8mEtzJW-4.hIelKD3f75I63HoHIqP7s3R5-OYtmleAuTQdabtyhGo&dib_tag=se&keywords=taking+control+of+your+fertility&qid=1756922947&sprefix=taking+control+of+your+fertility%2Caps%2C107&sr=8-1

I don't know about you, but I expect the success rate for contraceptives to be much, much higher than the success rate of conception. Saying it works as well for both suggests an awfully low bar.

The reason NFP works in both directions so to speak is that it identifies the “fertile window” of a relatively few days each month when a woman can become pregnant. If she wants to defer pregnancy, she avoids relations during that window. If she wants to become pregnant she times relations for when the target is in range. This latter approach is hardly unique to NFP users. Many women hoping to become pregnant use various methods to identify ovulation, such as test sticks.

Yes, and in practice it has a very high failure rate.

I would think anyone staunchly opposed to abortion would want to see highly effective contraception.

Did you read the “Humanae Vitae”someone else linked to earlier in this thread? It explains why the Catholic Church is opposed to both abortion and contraception. It’s pretty accurate in its predictions on how the widespread use of both would change society.
1) general moral degradation including an increase in infidelity, pre-marital pregnancy, and divorce.

2). The loss of respect for women and an increase in violence toward women.

3). Government/public authorities imposing contraception or sterilization on its citizens. This hasn’t happened in the western world, but there is certainly a social enforcement of contraceptive use for both married and unmarried women.

4). General loss of respect for human life including loss of respect for the elderly.

So, this makes sense on a social level. But I don’t know that it makes sense on an individual level when you live in a society where unplanned pregnancies, even within a marriage, are seen as almost immoral.

It makes sense on a social level? Really? Written by a celibate man in 1968- the time when unplanned pregnancies by unmarried women were seen as immoral, with children being sold into adoption after decades of doing this in Europe and here in the US. Maternity homes run by nuns in Ireland are filled with unmarked graves now found to contain baby corpses. Women shamed for being unmarried and pregnant, but men moving on with their lives and antics despite being married themselves. Don't even try to discuss infidelity- DNA has arrived to uncover the truth about how people behaved under the cloak of the seemingly married, pious, and the righteous. Yes, all those secrets are out now. You don't get an opportunity here to discuss what is moral in the slightest. You have ZERO voice.

So- sit TF down and stop talking about the sanctimony of human life when you aren't prepared to understand what that means. We are no longer listening to men, especially sanctimonious religious men who protected thousands upon thousands of priests while they raped and abused women and children all over the world for centuries- and are still doing it. The abuse, the subtrefuge, the murder, the hypocrisy, all in the name of God is epic and disgusting.

Women are in charge of their own bodies and their own life. They will not be judged, shamed, or labeled anymore. They have full worth whether they are unmarried, married, a parent or childless. It's time for the secrets, lies, abuse, misogyny to be over. So, sometimes that does come in the form of an IUD, and that has nothing to do with sin, priests, or any religion. We see where the sins are, and it's not an IUD.

OP, you keep your IUD and self worth.

Well stated, Thank you. DNA testing, i.e., science, has changed everything, as it should. People are no longer stuck in ignorance.

If the Catholic Church is going to claim that science interferes with god's will and divine design, then that philosophy should be consistently applied beyond women. But I'm sure the men in the Catholic Church find it much easier to tell women what they can and can't do than to accept the loss of antibiotics, cholesterol medication, and viagra.

The Catholic Church doesn’t say that science interferes with God’s will. The Catholic Church believes that it is the main purpose of human beings to fully connect with their humanity, body and soul. They believe that the body and soul are inherently connected, hence all of the kneeling and standing during prayers and the taking of Christ’s body into their own corporeal body.
The Catholic Church believes that sex between a man and a woman is inherently beautiful and a divine gift, and that part of what makes it beautiful is the possibility of creating life. Purposefully rendering yourself sterile in order to disconnect sex from procreation reduces its value and beauty for the couple.

The Catholic church has already connected with enough bodies. Little bodies.

Secondly, no, it's really not about being able to procreate. If that were true, infertile couples, older couples, gay couples ( yeah I said it), disabled couples should have no reason to have sex at all.
Yes, I already know their stance on LGTBQ, but, again, major hypocrisy.

No one said that sex is always about procreation. Just that it isn’t good for people to purposefully sterilize themselves so that they can uncouple sex and procreation.

Frankly, I don’t actually agree with this, but the discussion would be a lot more interesting if we could get on the same page.

The Catholic Church believes that sex between a man and a woman is inherently beautiful and a divine gift, and that part of what makes it beautiful is the possibility of creating life. Purposefully rendering yourself sterile in order to disconnect sex from procreation reduces its value and beauty for the couple.

Is there any misunderstanding here? I think not. Stop gaslighting.

NFP is purposefully disconnecting sex from procreation, too. It involves deliberate effort specifically intended to prevent conception.

"Yeah, like that works," said millions of teenage mothers, or any age women everywhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I would suggest natural family planning. Especially since you plan to try for a baby soon, I'm not sure why this is such a big deal right now. NFP is helpful anyways for learning about your body, and it will help you GET pregnant as much as AVOID getting pregnant. Just read the book Taking Charge of Your Fertility. It is not religious, not connect to CC. It is just science and important info about the female body. https://www.amazon.com/Taking-Charge-Your-Fertility-Anniversary/dp/0062326031/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1LOGJP05COAFA&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.KZYy0w0L9GiAkmKQuFtMIf1645s-MkMj8u6S9rpU8PDdbWOgTXgd6EnLhLnxgqUrZ2MvgqB1-s6DcE_aeJ8vnAbnru5tC8ZepzfF_HD8xInxLZbX_LN8BHK7XKe2Fk64aSmVS2dl62dgVumjv4tZLNg3OR63DM6UiN__yObPWmbhQrmCRVpZ9H7Ee6T7X8yQPA9UHGvKrA8QPV7qdSL17ztQ1hYBe44QnC8mEtzJW-4.hIelKD3f75I63HoHIqP7s3R5-OYtmleAuTQdabtyhGo&dib_tag=se&keywords=taking+control+of+your+fertility&qid=1756922947&sprefix=taking+control+of+your+fertility%2Caps%2C107&sr=8-1

I don't know about you, but I expect the success rate for contraceptives to be much, much higher than the success rate of conception. Saying it works as well for both suggests an awfully low bar.

The reason NFP works in both directions so to speak is that it identifies the “fertile window” of a relatively few days each month when a woman can become pregnant. If she wants to defer pregnancy, she avoids relations during that window. If she wants to become pregnant she times relations for when the target is in range. This latter approach is hardly unique to NFP users. Many women hoping to become pregnant use various methods to identify ovulation, such as test sticks.

Yes, and in practice it has a very high failure rate.

I would think anyone staunchly opposed to abortion would want to see highly effective contraception.

Did you read the “Humanae Vitae”someone else linked to earlier in this thread? It explains why the Catholic Church is opposed to both abortion and contraception. It’s pretty accurate in its predictions on how the widespread use of both would change society.
1) general moral degradation including an increase in infidelity, pre-marital pregnancy, and divorce.

2). The loss of respect for women and an increase in violence toward women.

3). Government/public authorities imposing contraception or sterilization on its citizens. This hasn’t happened in the western world, but there is certainly a social enforcement of contraceptive use for both married and unmarried women.

4). General loss of respect for human life including loss of respect for the elderly.

So, this makes sense on a social level. But I don’t know that it makes sense on an individual level when you live in a society where unplanned pregnancies, even within a marriage, are seen as almost immoral.

It makes sense on a social level? Really? Written by a celibate man in 1968- the time when unplanned pregnancies by unmarried women were seen as immoral, with children being sold into adoption after decades of doing this in Europe and here in the US. Maternity homes run by nuns in Ireland are filled with unmarked graves now found to contain baby corpses. Women shamed for being unmarried and pregnant, but men moving on with their lives and antics despite being married themselves. Don't even try to discuss infidelity- DNA has arrived to uncover the truth about how people behaved under the cloak of the seemingly married, pious, and the righteous. Yes, all those secrets are out now. You don't get an opportunity here to discuss what is moral in the slightest. You have ZERO voice.

So- sit TF down and stop talking about the sanctimony of human life when you aren't prepared to understand what that means. We are no longer listening to men, especially sanctimonious religious men who protected thousands upon thousands of priests while they raped and abused women and children all over the world for centuries- and are still doing it. The abuse, the subtrefuge, the murder, the hypocrisy, all in the name of God is epic and disgusting.

Women are in charge of their own bodies and their own life. They will not be judged, shamed, or labeled anymore. They have full worth whether they are unmarried, married, a parent or childless. It's time for the secrets, lies, abuse, misogyny to be over. So, sometimes that does come in the form of an IUD, and that has nothing to do with sin, priests, or any religion. We see where the sins are, and it's not an IUD.

OP, you keep your IUD and self worth.

Well stated, Thank you. DNA testing, i.e., science, has changed everything, as it should. People are no longer stuck in ignorance.

If the Catholic Church is going to claim that science interferes with god's will and divine design, then that philosophy should be consistently applied beyond women. But I'm sure the men in the Catholic Church find it much easier to tell women what they can and can't do than to accept the loss of antibiotics, cholesterol medication, and viagra.

The Catholic Church doesn’t say that science interferes with God’s will. The Catholic Church believes that it is the main purpose of human beings to fully connect with their humanity, body and soul. They believe that the body and soul are inherently connected, hence all of the kneeling and standing during prayers and the taking of Christ’s body into their own corporeal body.
The Catholic Church believes that sex between a man and a woman is inherently beautiful and a divine gift, and that part of what makes it beautiful is the possibility of creating life. Purposefully rendering yourself sterile in order to disconnect sex from procreation reduces its value and beauty for the couple.

The Catholic church has already connected with enough bodies. Little bodies.

Secondly, no, it's really not about being able to procreate. If that were true, infertile couples, older couples, gay couples ( yeah I said it), disabled couples should have no reason to have sex at all.
Yes, I already know their stance on LGTBQ, but, again, major hypocrisy.

No one said that sex is always about procreation. Just that it isn’t good for people to purposefully sterilize themselves so that they can uncouple sex and procreation.

Frankly, I don’t actually agree with this, but the discussion would be a lot more interesting if we could get on the same page.

The Catholic Church believes that sex between a man and a woman is inherently beautiful and a divine gift, and that part of what makes it beautiful is the possibility of creating life. Purposefully rendering yourself sterile in order to disconnect sex from procreation reduces its value and beauty for the couple.

Is there any misunderstanding here? I think not. Stop gaslighting.

NFP is purposefully disconnecting sex from procreation, too. It involves deliberate effort specifically intended to prevent conception.

"Yeah, like that works," said millions of teenage mothers, or any age women everywhere.

My OB called it papal roulette.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I would suggest natural family planning. Especially since you plan to try for a baby soon, I'm not sure why this is such a big deal right now. NFP is helpful anyways for learning about your body, and it will help you GET pregnant as much as AVOID getting pregnant. Just read the book Taking Charge of Your Fertility. It is not religious, not connect to CC. It is just science and important info about the female body. https://www.amazon.com/Taking-Charge-Your-Fertility-Anniversary/dp/0062326031/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1LOGJP05COAFA&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.KZYy0w0L9GiAkmKQuFtMIf1645s-MkMj8u6S9rpU8PDdbWOgTXgd6EnLhLnxgqUrZ2MvgqB1-s6DcE_aeJ8vnAbnru5tC8ZepzfF_HD8xInxLZbX_LN8BHK7XKe2Fk64aSmVS2dl62dgVumjv4tZLNg3OR63DM6UiN__yObPWmbhQrmCRVpZ9H7Ee6T7X8yQPA9UHGvKrA8QPV7qdSL17ztQ1hYBe44QnC8mEtzJW-4.hIelKD3f75I63HoHIqP7s3R5-OYtmleAuTQdabtyhGo&dib_tag=se&keywords=taking+control+of+your+fertility&qid=1756922947&sprefix=taking+control+of+your+fertility%2Caps%2C107&sr=8-1

I don't know about you, but I expect the success rate for contraceptives to be much, much higher than the success rate of conception. Saying it works as well for both suggests an awfully low bar.

The reason NFP works in both directions so to speak is that it identifies the “fertile window” of a relatively few days each month when a woman can become pregnant. If she wants to defer pregnancy, she avoids relations during that window. If she wants to become pregnant she times relations for when the target is in range. This latter approach is hardly unique to NFP users. Many women hoping to become pregnant use various methods to identify ovulation, such as test sticks.

Yes, and in practice it has a very high failure rate.

I would think anyone staunchly opposed to abortion would want to see highly effective contraception.

Did you read the “Humanae Vitae”someone else linked to earlier in this thread? It explains why the Catholic Church is opposed to both abortion and contraception. It’s pretty accurate in its predictions on how the widespread use of both would change society.
1) general moral degradation including an increase in infidelity, pre-marital pregnancy, and divorce.

2). The loss of respect for women and an increase in violence toward women.

3). Government/public authorities imposing contraception or sterilization on its citizens. This hasn’t happened in the western world, but there is certainly a social enforcement of contraceptive use for both married and unmarried women.

4). General loss of respect for human life including loss of respect for the elderly.

So, this makes sense on a social level. But I don’t know that it makes sense on an individual level when you live in a society where unplanned pregnancies, even within a marriage, are seen as almost immoral.

It makes sense on a social level? Really? Written by a celibate man in 1968- the time when unplanned pregnancies by unmarried women were seen as immoral, with children being sold into adoption after decades of doing this in Europe and here in the US. Maternity homes run by nuns in Ireland are filled with unmarked graves now found to contain baby corpses. Women shamed for being unmarried and pregnant, but men moving on with their lives and antics despite being married themselves. Don't even try to discuss infidelity- DNA has arrived to uncover the truth about how people behaved under the cloak of the seemingly married, pious, and the righteous. Yes, all those secrets are out now. You don't get an opportunity here to discuss what is moral in the slightest. You have ZERO voice.

So- sit TF down and stop talking about the sanctimony of human life when you aren't prepared to understand what that means. We are no longer listening to men, especially sanctimonious religious men who protected thousands upon thousands of priests while they raped and abused women and children all over the world for centuries- and are still doing it. The abuse, the subtrefuge, the murder, the hypocrisy, all in the name of God is epic and disgusting.

Women are in charge of their own bodies and their own life. They will not be judged, shamed, or labeled anymore. They have full worth whether they are unmarried, married, a parent or childless. It's time for the secrets, lies, abuse, misogyny to be over. So, sometimes that does come in the form of an IUD, and that has nothing to do with sin, priests, or any religion. We see where the sins are, and it's not an IUD.

OP, you keep your IUD and self worth.

Well stated, Thank you. DNA testing, i.e., science, has changed everything, as it should. People are no longer stuck in ignorance.

If the Catholic Church is going to claim that science interferes with god's will and divine design, then that philosophy should be consistently applied beyond women. But I'm sure the men in the Catholic Church find it much easier to tell women what they can and can't do than to accept the loss of antibiotics, cholesterol medication, and viagra.

The Catholic Church doesn’t say that science interferes with God’s will. The Catholic Church believes that it is the main purpose of human beings to fully connect with their humanity, body and soul. They believe that the body and soul are inherently connected, hence all of the kneeling and standing during prayers and the taking of Christ’s body into their own corporeal body.
The Catholic Church believes that sex between a man and a woman is inherently beautiful and a divine gift, and that part of what makes it beautiful is the possibility of creating life. Purposefully rendering yourself sterile in order to disconnect sex from procreation reduces its value and beauty for the couple.

The Catholic church has already connected with enough bodies. Little bodies.

Secondly, no, it's really not about being able to procreate. If that were true, infertile couples, older couples, gay couples ( yeah I said it), disabled couples should have no reason to have sex at all.
Yes, I already know their stance on LGTBQ, but, again, major hypocrisy.

No one said that sex is always about procreation. Just that it isn’t good for people to purposefully sterilize themselves so that they can uncouple sex and procreation.

Frankly, I don’t actually agree with this, but the discussion would be a lot more interesting if we could get on the same page.

The Catholic Church believes that sex between a man and a woman is inherently beautiful and a divine gift, and that part of what makes it beautiful is the possibility of creating life. Purposefully rendering yourself sterile in order to disconnect sex from procreation reduces its value and beauty for the couple.

Is there any misunderstanding here? I think not. Stop gaslighting.

NFP is purposefully disconnecting sex from procreation, too. It involves deliberate effort specifically intended to prevent conception.

"Yeah, like that works," said millions of teenage mothers, or any age women everywhere.

The pp previously claimed NFP is 98% effective. If you believe that, then that's similar to either condoms or birth control. So why isn't that similarly "rendering yourself sterile in order to disconnect sex from procreation"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I would suggest natural family planning. Especially since you plan to try for a baby soon, I'm not sure why this is such a big deal right now. NFP is helpful anyways for learning about your body, and it will help you GET pregnant as much as AVOID getting pregnant. Just read the book Taking Charge of Your Fertility. It is not religious, not connect to CC. It is just science and important info about the female body. https://www.amazon.com/Taking-Charge-Your-Fertility-Anniversary/dp/0062326031/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1LOGJP05COAFA&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.KZYy0w0L9GiAkmKQuFtMIf1645s-MkMj8u6S9rpU8PDdbWOgTXgd6EnLhLnxgqUrZ2MvgqB1-s6DcE_aeJ8vnAbnru5tC8ZepzfF_HD8xInxLZbX_LN8BHK7XKe2Fk64aSmVS2dl62dgVumjv4tZLNg3OR63DM6UiN__yObPWmbhQrmCRVpZ9H7Ee6T7X8yQPA9UHGvKrA8QPV7qdSL17ztQ1hYBe44QnC8mEtzJW-4.hIelKD3f75I63HoHIqP7s3R5-OYtmleAuTQdabtyhGo&dib_tag=se&keywords=taking+control+of+your+fertility&qid=1756922947&sprefix=taking+control+of+your+fertility%2Caps%2C107&sr=8-1

I don't know about you, but I expect the success rate for contraceptives to be much, much higher than the success rate of conception. Saying it works as well for both suggests an awfully low bar.

The reason NFP works in both directions so to speak is that it identifies the “fertile window” of a relatively few days each month when a woman can become pregnant. If she wants to defer pregnancy, she avoids relations during that window. If she wants to become pregnant she times relations for when the target is in range. This latter approach is hardly unique to NFP users. Many women hoping to become pregnant use various methods to identify ovulation, such as test sticks.

Yes, and in practice it has a very high failure rate.

I would think anyone staunchly opposed to abortion would want to see highly effective contraception.

Did you read the “Humanae Vitae”someone else linked to earlier in this thread? It explains why the Catholic Church is opposed to both abortion and contraception. It’s pretty accurate in its predictions on how the widespread use of both would change society.
1) general moral degradation including an increase in infidelity, pre-marital pregnancy, and divorce.

2). The loss of respect for women and an increase in violence toward women.

3). Government/public authorities imposing contraception or sterilization on its citizens. This hasn’t happened in the western world, but there is certainly a social enforcement of contraceptive use for both married and unmarried women.

4). General loss of respect for human life including loss of respect for the elderly.

So, this makes sense on a social level. But I don’t know that it makes sense on an individual level when you live in a society where unplanned pregnancies, even within a marriage, are seen as almost immoral.

It makes sense on a social level? Really? Written by a celibate man in 1968- the time when unplanned pregnancies by unmarried women were seen as immoral, with children being sold into adoption after decades of doing this in Europe and here in the US. Maternity homes run by nuns in Ireland are filled with unmarked graves now found to contain baby corpses. Women shamed for being unmarried and pregnant, but men moving on with their lives and antics despite being married themselves. Don't even try to discuss infidelity- DNA has arrived to uncover the truth about how people behaved under the cloak of the seemingly married, pious, and the righteous. Yes, all those secrets are out now. You don't get an opportunity here to discuss what is moral in the slightest. You have ZERO voice.

So- sit TF down and stop talking about the sanctimony of human life when you aren't prepared to understand what that means. We are no longer listening to men, especially sanctimonious religious men who protected thousands upon thousands of priests while they raped and abused women and children all over the world for centuries- and are still doing it. The abuse, the subtrefuge, the murder, the hypocrisy, all in the name of God is epic and disgusting.

Women are in charge of their own bodies and their own life. They will not be judged, shamed, or labeled anymore. They have full worth whether they are unmarried, married, a parent or childless. It's time for the secrets, lies, abuse, misogyny to be over. So, sometimes that does come in the form of an IUD, and that has nothing to do with sin, priests, or any religion. We see where the sins are, and it's not an IUD.

OP, you keep your IUD and self worth.

Well stated, Thank you. DNA testing, i.e., science, has changed everything, as it should. People are no longer stuck in ignorance.

If the Catholic Church is going to claim that science interferes with god's will and divine design, then that philosophy should be consistently applied beyond women. But I'm sure the men in the Catholic Church find it much easier to tell women what they can and can't do than to accept the loss of antibiotics, cholesterol medication, and viagra.

The Catholic Church doesn’t say that science interferes with God’s will. The Catholic Church believes that it is the main purpose of human beings to fully connect with their humanity, body and soul. They believe that the body and soul are inherently connected, hence all of the kneeling and standing during prayers and the taking of Christ’s body into their own corporeal body.
The Catholic Church believes that sex between a man and a woman is inherently beautiful and a divine gift, and that part of what makes it beautiful is the possibility of creating life. Purposefully rendering yourself sterile in order to disconnect sex from procreation reduces its value and beauty for the couple.

The Catholic church has already connected with enough bodies. Little bodies.

Secondly, no, it's really not about being able to procreate. If that were true, infertile couples, older couples, gay couples ( yeah I said it), disabled couples should have no reason to have sex at all.
Yes, I already know their stance on LGTBQ, but, again, major hypocrisy.

No one said that sex is always about procreation. Just that it isn’t good for people to purposefully sterilize themselves so that they can uncouple sex and procreation.

Frankly, I don’t actually agree with this, but the discussion would be a lot more interesting if we could get on the same page.

The Catholic Church believes that sex between a man and a woman is inherently beautiful and a divine gift, and that part of what makes it beautiful is the possibility of creating life. Purposefully rendering yourself sterile in order to disconnect sex from procreation reduces its value and beauty for the couple.

Is there any misunderstanding here? I think not. Stop gaslighting.

NFP is purposefully disconnecting sex from procreation, too. It involves deliberate effort specifically intended to prevent conception.

"Yeah, like that works," said millions of teenage mothers, or any age women everywhere.

The pp previously claimed NFP is 98% effective. If you believe that, then that's similar to either condoms or birth control. So why isn't that similarly "rendering yourself sterile in order to disconnect sex from procreation"?

98% effective when used perfectly. I don’t even know if they count the vast majority of “users” that have irregular cycles. I’d have to do infertility level of monitoring and tracking to guess at when I might ovulate within my 22-day cycle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I would suggest natural family planning. Especially since you plan to try for a baby soon, I'm not sure why this is such a big deal right now. NFP is helpful anyways for learning about your body, and it will help you GET pregnant as much as AVOID getting pregnant. Just read the book Taking Charge of Your Fertility. It is not religious, not connect to CC. It is just science and important info about the female body. https://www.amazon.com/Taking-Charge-Your-Fertility-Anniversary/dp/0062326031/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1LOGJP05COAFA&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.KZYy0w0L9GiAkmKQuFtMIf1645s-MkMj8u6S9rpU8PDdbWOgTXgd6EnLhLnxgqUrZ2MvgqB1-s6DcE_aeJ8vnAbnru5tC8ZepzfF_HD8xInxLZbX_LN8BHK7XKe2Fk64aSmVS2dl62dgVumjv4tZLNg3OR63DM6UiN__yObPWmbhQrmCRVpZ9H7Ee6T7X8yQPA9UHGvKrA8QPV7qdSL17ztQ1hYBe44QnC8mEtzJW-4.hIelKD3f75I63HoHIqP7s3R5-OYtmleAuTQdabtyhGo&dib_tag=se&keywords=taking+control+of+your+fertility&qid=1756922947&sprefix=taking+control+of+your+fertility%2Caps%2C107&sr=8-1

I don't know about you, but I expect the success rate for contraceptives to be much, much higher than the success rate of conception. Saying it works as well for both suggests an awfully low bar.

The reason NFP works in both directions so to speak is that it identifies the “fertile window” of a relatively few days each month when a woman can become pregnant. If she wants to defer pregnancy, she avoids relations during that window. If she wants to become pregnant she times relations for when the target is in range. This latter approach is hardly unique to NFP users. Many women hoping to become pregnant use various methods to identify ovulation, such as test sticks.

Yes, and in practice it has a very high failure rate.

I would think anyone staunchly opposed to abortion would want to see highly effective contraception.

Did you read the “Humanae Vitae”someone else linked to earlier in this thread? It explains why the Catholic Church is opposed to both abortion and contraception. It’s pretty accurate in its predictions on how the widespread use of both would change society.
1) general moral degradation including an increase in infidelity, pre-marital pregnancy, and divorce.

2). The loss of respect for women and an increase in violence toward women.

3). Government/public authorities imposing contraception or sterilization on its citizens. This hasn’t happened in the western world, but there is certainly a social enforcement of contraceptive use for both married and unmarried women.

4). General loss of respect for human life including loss of respect for the elderly.

So, this makes sense on a social level. But I don’t know that it makes sense on an individual level when you live in a society where unplanned pregnancies, even within a marriage, are seen as almost immoral.

It makes sense on a social level? Really? Written by a celibate man in 1968- the time when unplanned pregnancies by unmarried women were seen as immoral, with children being sold into adoption after decades of doing this in Europe and here in the US. Maternity homes run by nuns in Ireland are filled with unmarked graves now found to contain baby corpses. Women shamed for being unmarried and pregnant, but men moving on with their lives and antics despite being married themselves. Don't even try to discuss infidelity- DNA has arrived to uncover the truth about how people behaved under the cloak of the seemingly married, pious, and the righteous. Yes, all those secrets are out now. You don't get an opportunity here to discuss what is moral in the slightest. You have ZERO voice.

So- sit TF down and stop talking about the sanctimony of human life when you aren't prepared to understand what that means. We are no longer listening to men, especially sanctimonious religious men who protected thousands upon thousands of priests while they raped and abused women and children all over the world for centuries- and are still doing it. The abuse, the subtrefuge, the murder, the hypocrisy, all in the name of God is epic and disgusting.

Women are in charge of their own bodies and their own life. They will not be judged, shamed, or labeled anymore. They have full worth whether they are unmarried, married, a parent or childless. It's time for the secrets, lies, abuse, misogyny to be over. So, sometimes that does come in the form of an IUD, and that has nothing to do with sin, priests, or any religion. We see where the sins are, and it's not an IUD.

OP, you keep your IUD and self worth.

Well stated, Thank you. DNA testing, i.e., science, has changed everything, as it should. People are no longer stuck in ignorance.

If the Catholic Church is going to claim that science interferes with god's will and divine design, then that philosophy should be consistently applied beyond women. But I'm sure the men in the Catholic Church find it much easier to tell women what they can and can't do than to accept the loss of antibiotics, cholesterol medication, and viagra.

The Catholic Church doesn’t say that science interferes with God’s will. The Catholic Church believes that it is the main purpose of human beings to fully connect with their humanity, body and soul. They believe that the body and soul are inherently connected, hence all of the kneeling and standing during prayers and the taking of Christ’s body into their own corporeal body.
The Catholic Church believes that sex between a man and a woman is inherently beautiful and a divine gift, and that part of what makes it beautiful is the possibility of creating life. Purposefully rendering yourself sterile in order to disconnect sex from procreation reduces its value and beauty for the couple.

The Catholic church has already connected with enough bodies. Little bodies.

Secondly, no, it's really not about being able to procreate. If that were true, infertile couples, older couples, gay couples ( yeah I said it), disabled couples should have no reason to have sex at all.
Yes, I already know their stance on LGTBQ, but, again, major hypocrisy.

No one said that sex is always about procreation. Just that it isn’t good for people to purposefully sterilize themselves so that they can uncouple sex and procreation.

Frankly, I don’t actually agree with this, but the discussion would be a lot more interesting if we could get on the same page.

The Catholic Church believes that sex between a man and a woman is inherently beautiful and a divine gift, and that part of what makes it beautiful is the possibility of creating life. Purposefully rendering yourself sterile in order to disconnect sex from procreation reduces its value and beauty for the couple.

Is there any misunderstanding here? I think not. Stop gaslighting.

NFP is purposefully disconnecting sex from procreation, too. It involves deliberate effort specifically intended to prevent conception.

"Yeah, like that works," said millions of teenage mothers, or any age women everywhere.

My OB called it papal roulette.

Lol, perfect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I would suggest natural family planning. Especially since you plan to try for a baby soon, I'm not sure why this is such a big deal right now. NFP is helpful anyways for learning about your body, and it will help you GET pregnant as much as AVOID getting pregnant. Just read the book Taking Charge of Your Fertility. It is not religious, not connect to CC. It is just science and important info about the female body. https://www.amazon.com/Taking-Charge-Your-Fertility-Anniversary/dp/0062326031/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1LOGJP05COAFA&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.KZYy0w0L9GiAkmKQuFtMIf1645s-MkMj8u6S9rpU8PDdbWOgTXgd6EnLhLnxgqUrZ2MvgqB1-s6DcE_aeJ8vnAbnru5tC8ZepzfF_HD8xInxLZbX_LN8BHK7XKe2Fk64aSmVS2dl62dgVumjv4tZLNg3OR63DM6UiN__yObPWmbhQrmCRVpZ9H7Ee6T7X8yQPA9UHGvKrA8QPV7qdSL17ztQ1hYBe44QnC8mEtzJW-4.hIelKD3f75I63HoHIqP7s3R5-OYtmleAuTQdabtyhGo&dib_tag=se&keywords=taking+control+of+your+fertility&qid=1756922947&sprefix=taking+control+of+your+fertility%2Caps%2C107&sr=8-1

I don't know about you, but I expect the success rate for contraceptives to be much, much higher than the success rate of conception. Saying it works as well for both suggests an awfully low bar.

The reason NFP works in both directions so to speak is that it identifies the “fertile window” of a relatively few days each month when a woman can become pregnant. If she wants to defer pregnancy, she avoids relations during that window. If she wants to become pregnant she times relations for when the target is in range. This latter approach is hardly unique to NFP users. Many women hoping to become pregnant use various methods to identify ovulation, such as test sticks.

Yes, and in practice it has a very high failure rate.

I would think anyone staunchly opposed to abortion would want to see highly effective contraception.

Did you read the “Humanae Vitae”someone else linked to earlier in this thread? It explains why the Catholic Church is opposed to both abortion and contraception. It’s pretty accurate in its predictions on how the widespread use of both would change society.
1) general moral degradation including an increase in infidelity, pre-marital pregnancy, and divorce.

2). The loss of respect for women and an increase in violence toward women.

3). Government/public authorities imposing contraception or sterilization on its citizens. This hasn’t happened in the western world, but there is certainly a social enforcement of contraceptive use for both married and unmarried women.

4). General loss of respect for human life including loss of respect for the elderly.

So, this makes sense on a social level. But I don’t know that it makes sense on an individual level when you live in a society where unplanned pregnancies, even within a marriage, are seen as almost immoral.

It makes sense on a social level? Really? Written by a celibate man in 1968- the time when unplanned pregnancies by unmarried women were seen as immoral, with children being sold into adoption after decades of doing this in Europe and here in the US. Maternity homes run by nuns in Ireland are filled with unmarked graves now found to contain baby corpses. Women shamed for being unmarried and pregnant, but men moving on with their lives and antics despite being married themselves. Don't even try to discuss infidelity- DNA has arrived to uncover the truth about how people behaved under the cloak of the seemingly married, pious, and the righteous. Yes, all those secrets are out now. You don't get an opportunity here to discuss what is moral in the slightest. You have ZERO voice.

So- sit TF down and stop talking about the sanctimony of human life when you aren't prepared to understand what that means. We are no longer listening to men, especially sanctimonious religious men who protected thousands upon thousands of priests while they raped and abused women and children all over the world for centuries- and are still doing it. The abuse, the subtrefuge, the murder, the hypocrisy, all in the name of God is epic and disgusting.

Women are in charge of their own bodies and their own life. They will not be judged, shamed, or labeled anymore. They have full worth whether they are unmarried, married, a parent or childless. It's time for the secrets, lies, abuse, misogyny to be over. So, sometimes that does come in the form of an IUD, and that has nothing to do with sin, priests, or any religion. We see where the sins are, and it's not an IUD.

OP, you keep your IUD and self worth.

Well stated, Thank you. DNA testing, i.e., science, has changed everything, as it should. People are no longer stuck in ignorance.

If the Catholic Church is going to claim that science interferes with god's will and divine design, then that philosophy should be consistently applied beyond women. But I'm sure the men in the Catholic Church find it much easier to tell women what they can and can't do than to accept the loss of antibiotics, cholesterol medication, and viagra.

The Catholic Church doesn’t say that science interferes with God’s will. The Catholic Church believes that it is the main purpose of human beings to fully connect with their humanity, body and soul. They believe that the body and soul are inherently connected, hence all of the kneeling and standing during prayers and the taking of Christ’s body into their own corporeal body.
The Catholic Church believes that sex between a man and a woman is inherently beautiful and a divine gift, and that part of what makes it beautiful is the possibility of creating life. Purposefully rendering yourself sterile in order to disconnect sex from procreation reduces its value and beauty for the couple.

The Catholic church has already connected with enough bodies. Little bodies.

Secondly, no, it's really not about being able to procreate. If that were true, infertile couples, older couples, gay couples ( yeah I said it), disabled couples should have no reason to have sex at all.
Yes, I already know their stance on LGTBQ, but, again, major hypocrisy.

No one said that sex is always about procreation. Just that it isn’t good for people to purposefully sterilize themselves so that they can uncouple sex and procreation.

Frankly, I don’t actually agree with this, but the discussion would be a lot more interesting if we could get on the same page.

The Catholic Church believes that sex between a man and a woman is inherently beautiful and a divine gift, and that part of what makes it beautiful is the possibility of creating life. Purposefully rendering yourself sterile in order to disconnect sex from procreation reduces its value and beauty for the couple.

Is there any misunderstanding here? I think not. Stop gaslighting.

NFP is purposefully disconnecting sex from procreation, too. It involves deliberate effort specifically intended to prevent conception.

"Yeah, like that works," said millions of teenage mothers, or any age women everywhere.

The pp previously claimed NFP is 98% effective. If you believe that, then that's similar to either condoms or birth control. So why isn't that similarly "rendering yourself sterile in order to disconnect sex from procreation"?

98% effective when used perfectly. I don’t even know if they count the vast majority of “users” that have irregular cycles. I’d have to do infertility level of monitoring and tracking to guess at when I might ovulate within my 22-day cycle.

I think it's absurd too, but the pp claims to believe it. And if so, then she should find NFP as morally repugnant to god's will as condoms and birth control pills.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Wow! I didn’t realize this thread would blow up so much. I appreciate those who have left comments. I am also sorry to read about the atrocities some of you personally have experienced at the hands of the church. The purpose of my thread was not to bash Catholicism or necessarily defend it, just sharing a specific issue I am encountering.

I have a lot to think over, but on a positive note: I have found that confession was a good starting point to reevaluate some of the other sins in my life. I tend to be selfish and unkind to others (cursing a lot, road rage, judgemental) and I’ve definitely thought twice about those things since going. So that is a positive thing at least. I am still seeking out some other priests to talk to.

Here's a good website with a catholic perspective:

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/formationmatters/2025/08/liturgical-combat/#comment-6758311331

They don't allow comments from people with opposing views.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My advice would be to go to confession and just tell the priest how you feel. Exactly how you wrote it above. Not all priests are great, but many are. Maybe he would be willing to commence a conversation with you about it. The fact that you want to go back to confession is great - he will be happy. And if you are open to even a conversation about it, any good priest would be more than happy to walk through the theology of it and talk to you about your fears and your options.

Right, a good priest will talk to you and listen to you and ultimately tell you to use the rhythm method or leave the church. But you'll feel good about it all, because he's a good priest.

Modern Natural Family Planning is as far from the so-called “rhythm method” as ancient cow-dung pessaries. There is a “standard days” method; a method involving symptom/mucus observation; one that adds observation of basal body temperature; and methods that further include saliva microscopes, ovulation testing and fertility monitoring devices. The “failure” rate of NFP is extremely low, and it has the advantage of also aiding in becoming pregnant when that is what is desired. Nothing is “perfect.” Even tubal ligations and vasectomy fail.

They don't call it the rhythm method anymore, but it's still the same natural, ineffective way. If it doesn't work -- you have a baby. The Science is better, though -- thank God for modern science.

No, it’s not the “same” as stone-age calendar estimating. To the contrary, it is the product of “modern science.”

“If it doesn’t work — you have a baby.”

Wow, just like chemical method failures, IUD failures; barrier failures; withdrawal failures; and surgical failures.

And unlike other approaches it identifies fertile periods and thus aids couples who decide they want to have a child.

DP. NFP is great … for women who CHOOSE IT and have the ability to do it succinctly. what is not great is the Catholic Church’s frankly demented refusal to allow any other type of birth control on the logically unjustifiable grounds that using a SALIVA MICROSCOPE for NFP is somehow more in line with god’s will than using a condom or the pill. The reasoning is like, really really bizarre, and does not really correspond to anything in logic, family needs, relationship needs, much less the freakin’ Bible. This doctrine literally only exists to create a sexual taboo.

I've been away from Catholic teachings for a long time, but this sounds right to me.

+1 Does anyone know any of the requirements that make a group a cult? I could enlighten you....but suffice it to say that this is one of them-control of your sex life, control of your behavior, etc. Flame away, but this whole thread is insane to me in the 21st century. That a moment of anyone's life is wasted on this type of ideology and thinking and planning and asking a man's permission to have a baby or not have a baby and having to look at your mucus, it's just insane....I can't believe it honestly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My advice would be to go to confession and just tell the priest how you feel. Exactly how you wrote it above. Not all priests are great, but many are. Maybe he would be willing to commence a conversation with you about it. The fact that you want to go back to confession is great - he will be happy. And if you are open to even a conversation about it, any good priest would be more than happy to walk through the theology of it and talk to you about your fears and your options.

Right, a good priest will talk to you and listen to you and ultimately tell you to use the rhythm method or leave the church. But you'll feel good about it all, because he's a good priest.

Modern Natural Family Planning is as far from the so-called “rhythm method” as ancient cow-dung pessaries. There is a “standard days” method; a method involving symptom/mucus observation; one that adds observation of basal body temperature; and methods that further include saliva microscopes, ovulation testing and fertility monitoring devices. The “failure” rate of NFP is extremely low, and it has the advantage of also aiding in becoming pregnant when that is what is desired. Nothing is “perfect.” Even tubal ligations and vasectomy fail.

They don't call it the rhythm method anymore, but it's still the same natural, ineffective way. If it doesn't work -- you have a baby. The Science is better, though -- thank God for modern science.

No, it’s not the “same” as stone-age calendar estimating. To the contrary, it is the product of “modern science.”

“If it doesn’t work — you have a baby.”

Wow, just like chemical method failures, IUD failures; barrier failures; withdrawal failures; and surgical failures.

And unlike other approaches it identifies fertile periods and thus aids couples who decide they want to have a child.

DP. NFP is great … for women who CHOOSE IT and have the ability to do it succinctly. what is not great is the Catholic Church’s frankly demented refusal to allow any other type of birth control on the logically unjustifiable grounds that using a SALIVA MICROSCOPE for NFP is somehow more in line with god’s will than using a condom or the pill. The reasoning is like, really really bizarre, and does not really correspond to anything in logic, family needs, relationship needs, much less the freakin’ Bible. This doctrine literally only exists to create a sexual taboo.

I've been away from Catholic teachings for a long time, but this sounds right to me.

+1 Does anyone know any of the requirements that make a group a cult? I could enlighten you....but suffice it to say that this is one of them-control of your sex life, control of your behavior, etc. Flame away, but this whole thread is insane to me in the 21st century. That a moment of anyone's life is wasted on this type of ideology and thinking and planning and asking a man's permission to have a baby or not have a baby and having to look at your mucus, it's just insane....I can't believe it honestly.

And still, it brings some people comfort. And even after a school shooting during mass, they still follow the teachings

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My advice would be to go to confession and just tell the priest how you feel. Exactly how you wrote it above. Not all priests are great, but many are. Maybe he would be willing to commence a conversation with you about it. The fact that you want to go back to confession is great - he will be happy. And if you are open to even a conversation about it, any good priest would be more than happy to walk through the theology of it and talk to you about your fears and your options.

Right, a good priest will talk to you and listen to you and ultimately tell you to use the rhythm method or leave the church. But you'll feel good about it all, because he's a good priest.

Modern Natural Family Planning is as far from the so-called “rhythm method” as ancient cow-dung pessaries. There is a “standard days” method; a method involving symptom/mucus observation; one that adds observation of basal body temperature; and methods that further include saliva microscopes, ovulation testing and fertility monitoring devices. The “failure” rate of NFP is extremely low, and it has the advantage of also aiding in becoming pregnant when that is what is desired. Nothing is “perfect.” Even tubal ligations and vasectomy fail.

They don't call it the rhythm method anymore, but it's still the same natural, ineffective way. If it doesn't work -- you have a baby. The Science is better, though -- thank God for modern science.

No, it’s not the “same” as stone-age calendar estimating. To the contrary, it is the product of “modern science.”

“If it doesn’t work — you have a baby.”

Wow, just like chemical method failures, IUD failures; barrier failures; withdrawal failures; and surgical failures.

And unlike other approaches it identifies fertile periods and thus aids couples who decide they want to have a child.

DP. NFP is great … for women who CHOOSE IT and have the ability to do it succinctly. what is not great is the Catholic Church’s frankly demented refusal to allow any other type of birth control on the logically unjustifiable grounds that using a SALIVA MICROSCOPE for NFP is somehow more in line with god’s will than using a condom or the pill. The reasoning is like, really really bizarre, and does not really correspond to anything in logic, family needs, relationship needs, much less the freakin’ Bible. This doctrine literally only exists to create a sexual taboo.

I've been away from Catholic teachings for a long time, but this sounds right to me.

+1 Does anyone know any of the requirements that make a group a cult? I could enlighten you....but suffice it to say that this is one of them-control of your sex life, control of your behavior, etc. Flame away, but this whole thread is insane to me in the 21st century. That a moment of anyone's life is wasted on this type of ideology and thinking and planning and asking a man's permission to have a baby or not have a baby and having to look at your mucus, it's just insane....I can't believe it honestly.

And still, it brings some people comfort. And even after a school shooting during mass, they still follow the teachings

You could say similar things about alcohol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My advice would be to go to confession and just tell the priest how you feel. Exactly how you wrote it above. Not all priests are great, but many are. Maybe he would be willing to commence a conversation with you about it. The fact that you want to go back to confession is great - he will be happy. And if you are open to even a conversation about it, any good priest would be more than happy to walk through the theology of it and talk to you about your fears and your options.

Right, a good priest will talk to you and listen to you and ultimately tell you to use the rhythm method or leave the church. But you'll feel good about it all, because he's a good priest.

Modern Natural Family Planning is as far from the so-called “rhythm method” as ancient cow-dung pessaries. There is a “standard days” method; a method involving symptom/mucus observation; one that adds observation of basal body temperature; and methods that further include saliva microscopes, ovulation testing and fertility monitoring devices. The “failure” rate of NFP is extremely low, and it has the advantage of also aiding in becoming pregnant when that is what is desired. Nothing is “perfect.” Even tubal ligations and vasectomy fail.

They don't call it the rhythm method anymore, but it's still the same natural, ineffective way. If it doesn't work -- you have a baby. The Science is better, though -- thank God for modern science.

No, it’s not the “same” as stone-age calendar estimating. To the contrary, it is the product of “modern science.”

“If it doesn’t work — you have a baby.”

Wow, just like chemical method failures, IUD failures; barrier failures; withdrawal failures; and surgical failures.

And unlike other approaches it identifies fertile periods and thus aids couples who decide they want to have a child.

DP. NFP is great … for women who CHOOSE IT and have the ability to do it succinctly. what is not great is the Catholic Church’s frankly demented refusal to allow any other type of birth control on the logically unjustifiable grounds that using a SALIVA MICROSCOPE for NFP is somehow more in line with god’s will than using a condom or the pill. The reasoning is like, really really bizarre, and does not really correspond to anything in logic, family needs, relationship needs, much less the freakin’ Bible. This doctrine literally only exists to create a sexual taboo.

I've been away from Catholic teachings for a long time, but this sounds right to me.

+1 Does anyone know any of the requirements that make a group a cult? I could enlighten you....but suffice it to say that this is one of them-control of your sex life, control of your behavior, etc. Flame away, but this whole thread is insane to me in the 21st century. That a moment of anyone's life is wasted on this type of ideology and thinking and planning and asking a man's permission to have a baby or not have a baby and having to look at your mucus, it's just insane....I can't believe it honestly.

And still, it brings some people comfort. And even after a school shooting during mass, they still follow the teachings

Such is the power of indoctrination which is the most dangerous tool. The psychology necessary to indoctrinate someone into believing they have to monitor their mucus is the same psychology that can get people to believe flying a plane into a building to kill infidels. Different harms, of course, but the same process nonetheless. This is what needs to be understood and then stopped