University of Virginia suspends tours that had come under fire for mentioning Thomas Jefferson's ties to slavery

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not “mention,” it’s “entire focus” of the tour.

Big difference. I am sure the kinds of tours provided at Mount Vernon, which are comprehensive but not agenda- driven woke, will still be given at uva

The “agenda” of acknowledging slavery and fighting racism?

Right. Neither should appear on the agenda when one adult shows another adult the present-day features of a school.

Perseverating on Sally Hemmings 400 years ago does not "fight racism" today. And like PP said, "acknowledging" something from 400 years ago is performative bullshit, because there isn't a high school student in the northern hemisphere who is unaware that slavery occurred.

Really? Seems like a lot of people are pretending like it - and racist policies - never happened.

Look at all of the people fighting racial diversity college admissions.

Yes using race in college admissions is unconstitutional.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought our UVA tour was awkward. We walked by one set of dorms, saw the inside of one building, then spent the rest of the time standing on the Lawn while the guide talked about how racist the community was. Learned very little about the school. The strangest tour we had.

You forgot the part where we had to acknowledge the indigenous people whose land we were trodding upon.

Ours required a moment of silence. People in the tour looked so confused.

Sounds like a few rogue student guides. Not our experience at all.

? It’s literally in the news that UVA adjusted their tours. I highly doubt it was a few rogue guides. Either way, my child isn’t applying. Damage done.

Whatever will they do without your child?

You seriously think it is in UVA’s interest to have tours that turn kids off from applying? You’re being absurd.

For every kid turned off, there are plenty who become more interested, or don’t really care either way. If it really deterred your kid from applying, then it just wasn’t the right school for them. There are thousands upon thousands of others happy to take their place.

I don't think so. The international crowd really doesn't want to hear too much positive or negative about history. Either way they would feel unwelcomed. They likely expect some reference but really care more about the classes, teachers, campus life, and notable achievements of the university in the present.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is part of an ongoing struggle between Jefferson the man and Jefferson the myth.

Acknowledging that UVa has a troubled history is not only important but also shouldn’t have 0 effect on perspective students and their outlook on the university.

If you don’t like history, go complain to Mr Jefferson’s ancestors

Yeah, UVA students used to be completely gaga for Jefferson. To an embarrassing degree, it was just how you were supposed to be—quoting him, wearing his face on a t-shirt, thinking “what would TJ do?” It was just another quirk that made UVA students feel superior to our peers at other state institutions, where no one knows or cares who the founder was.

Though this might seem like a correction to far in the other direction for some, it’s just part of a reckoning and in keeping with the times.

What would be wrong with quoting Jefferson or wearing his face on a T-shirt? Who are your heroes? I guarantee they weren't perfect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought our UVA tour was awkward. We walked by one set of dorms, saw the inside of one building, then spent the rest of the time standing on the Lawn while the guide talked about how racist the community was. Learned very little about the school. The strangest tour we had.

You forgot the part where we had to acknowledge the indigenous people whose land we were trodding upon.

Ours required a moment of silence. People in the tour looked so confused.

Sounds like a few rogue student guides. Not our experience at all.

? It’s literally in the news that UVA adjusted their tours. I highly doubt it was a few rogue guides. Either way, my child isn’t applying. Damage done.

Whatever will they do without your child?

You seriously think it is in UVA’s interest to have tours that turn kids off from applying? You’re being absurd.

For every kid turned off, there are plenty who become more interested, or don’t really care either way. If it really deterred your kid from applying, then it just wasn’t the right school for them. There are thousands upon thousands of others happy to take their place.

I don't think so. The international crowd really doesn't want to hear too much positive or negative about history. Either way they would feel unwelcomed. They likely expect some reference but really care more about the classes, teachers, campus life, and notable achievements of the university in the present.

I’m sure Youngkin’s appointees to the Board of Trustees totally care what the international crowd wants to hear.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is part of an ongoing struggle between Jefferson the man and Jefferson the myth.

Acknowledging that UVa has a troubled history is not only important but also shouldn’t have 0 effect on perspective students and their outlook on the university.

If you don’t like history, go complain to Mr Jefferson’s ancestors

Yeah, UVA students used to be completely gaga for Jefferson. To an embarrassing degree, it was just how you were supposed to be—quoting him, wearing his face on a t-shirt, thinking “what would TJ do?” It was just another quirk that made UVA students feel superior to our peers at other state institutions, where no one knows or cares who the founder was.

Though this might seem like a correction to far in the other direction for some, it’s just part of a reckoning and in keeping with the times.

What would be wrong with quoting Jefferson or wearing his face on a T-shirt? Who are your heroes? I guarantee they weren't perfect.

Nothing wrong with it on an individual level, but on an institutional level, it’s a matter of reading the room.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is part of an ongoing struggle between Jefferson the man and Jefferson the myth.

Acknowledging that UVa has a troubled history is not only important but also shouldn’t have 0 effect on perspective students and their outlook on the university.

If you don’t like history, go complain to Mr Jefferson’s ancestors

Better to go William and Mary then?

What institution in Virginia didn’t have a “troubled history”?

And why should that be the focus of a one hour tour where a student needs to decide among multiple options where to apply to?

The W&M tour started with a stop at the “memorial to the enslaved” but I tuned out that drivel and the tour quickly moved on to more sensible, useful, and relevant issues like dorms and food and the new science center.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought our UVA tour was awkward. We walked by one set of dorms, saw the inside of one building, then spent the rest of the time standing on the Lawn while the guide talked about how racist the community was. Learned very little about the school. The strangest tour we had.

You forgot the part where we had to acknowledge the indigenous people whose land we were trodding upon.

Ours required a moment of silence. People in the tour looked so confused.

Sounds like a few rogue student guides. Not our experience at all.

? It’s literally in the news that UVA adjusted their tours. I highly doubt it was a few rogue guides. Either way, my child isn’t applying. Damage done.

Why? The students there are not like this. Look at the Palestine protests there https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cs3L-j7NxY People kinda wander in an wander out of the protests between classes to hang out with friends and stuff. Honestly, there are more people showing up to my kid's little league games.

For the most part the school administration is not like this. They fell victim to the same stuff that most of society fell victim to over the past few years. I mean it was funny for a while to watch 18 year olds asking us if we ever heard about slavery as if they uncovered something noone ever knew about before.

My child is 17 and yes, fairly or not, is looking to the student guides as giving some sort of indication about what the students on campus are like. We have about an hour on the tour to gauge the feel of the campus. Use that time wisely, guides!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is part of an ongoing struggle between Jefferson the man and Jefferson the myth.

Acknowledging that UVa has a troubled history is not only important but also shouldn’t have 0 effect on perspective students and their outlook on the university.

If you don’t like history, go complain to Mr Jefferson’s ancestors

Better to go William and Mary then?

What institution in Virginia didn’t have a “troubled history”?

And why should that be the focus of a one hour tour where a student needs to decide among multiple options where to apply to?

The W&M tour started with a stop at the “memorial to the enslaved” but I tuned out that drivel and the tour quickly moved on to more sensible, useful, and relevant issues like dorms and food and the new science center.

UNC Ch also had a portion of the tour that acknowledged the indigenous past and recommended some exhibits in a building where students could learn more if they chose. Then moved on to the libraries, dorm life, campus clubs. I thought that tour was very well done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not “mention,” it’s “entire focus” of the tour.

Big difference. I am sure the kinds of tours provided at Mount Vernon, which are comprehensive but not agenda- driven woke, will still be given at uva

The “agenda” of acknowledging slavery and fighting racism?

Right. Neither should appear on the agenda when one adult shows another adult the present-day features of a school.

Perseverating on Sally Hemmings 400 years ago does not "fight racism" today. And like PP said, "acknowledging" something from 400 years ago is performative bullshit, because there isn't a high school student in the northern hemisphere who is unaware that slavery occurred.

Really? Seems like a lot of people are pretending like it - and racist policies - never happened.

Look at all of the people fighting racial diversity college admissions.

Yes using race in college admissions is unconstitutional.

Wrong. Elitists hoarding opportunities will only lead to more inequality, less inclusion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought our UVA tour was awkward. We walked by one set of dorms, saw the inside of one building, then spent the rest of the time standing on the Lawn while the guide talked about how racist the community was. Learned very little about the school. The strangest tour we had.

You forgot the part where we had to acknowledge the indigenous people whose land we were trodding upon.

Ours required a moment of silence. People in the tour looked so confused.

Sounds like a few rogue student guides. Not our experience at all.

? It’s literally in the news that UVA adjusted their tours. I highly doubt it was a few rogue guides. Either way, my child isn’t applying. Damage done.

Whatever will they do without your child?

You seriously think it is in UVA’s interest to have tours that turn kids off from applying? You’re being absurd.

For every kid turned off, there are plenty who become more interested, or don’t really care either way. If it really deterred your kid from applying, then it just wasn’t the right school for them. There are thousands upon thousands of others happy to take their place.

lol if that were the case, they wouldn’t be revising the tours.

Yeah, their application numbers are clearly hurting.

Something caused them to change the tours, yes? They didn’t like the results. Open your eyes.

That “something” was a racist governor who appointed his racist buddies to the board.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought our UVA tour was awkward. We walked by one set of dorms, saw the inside of one building, then spent the rest of the time standing on the Lawn while the guide talked about how racist the community was. Learned very little about the school. The strangest tour we had.

You forgot the part where we had to acknowledge the indigenous people whose land we were trodding upon.

Ours required a moment of silence. People in the tour looked so confused.

Sounds like a few rogue student guides. Not our experience at all.

? It’s literally in the news that UVA adjusted their tours. I highly doubt it was a few rogue guides. Either way, my child isn’t applying. Damage done.

Whatever will they do without your child?

You seriously think it is in UVA’s interest to have tours that turn kids off from applying? You’re being absurd.

For every kid turned off, there are plenty who become more interested, or don’t really care either way. If it really deterred your kid from applying, then it just wasn’t the right school for them. There are thousands upon thousands of others happy to take their place.

I don't think so. The international crowd really doesn't want to hear too much positive or negative about history. Either way they would feel unwelcomed. They likely expect some reference but really care more about the classes, teachers, campus life, and notable achievements of the university in the present.

I’m sure Youngkin’s appointees to the Board of Trustees totally care what the international crowd wants to hear.

Look in the mirror at your own bias. At the root is some sort of superiority need not anything actually useful. You are not that special or woke. Tons of other universities acknowledge history without such an agenda.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA alum here.
The University Guides serve a purpose to provide campus tours to prospective students which includes historically accurate info on the founding of the school. If your kiddos don’t like to hear that slaves built UVA, then perhaps they aren’t ready for the academic rigor of UVA and the growth that only comes from mature intellectual conversations based on the truth. You can’t shield them from it no matter how hard you try.

The tours at Monticello now finally tell the true story of Sally Hemmings. For decades, her quarters were closed off, and they only used part of it for public restroom, but they finally invested millions of dollars to restore back to the way it was because the story needs to be told.
https://www.monticello.org/sallyhemings/

The African-American History Museum in Washington, DC tells the true story of Thomas Jefferson.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-dark-side-of-thomas-jefferson-35976004/

What is UVA so scared off?
Oh maybe that the kiddos will form their own opinions on these topics?

The fact that you continue to call college-aged students "kiddos" is so telling. Monticello is an appropriate place to tell the story of Sally Hemmings. A UVA tour might mention that the school was built by slaves. But to focus an entire COLLEGE tour on racism?? Sorry, no. That is incredibly misguided. Glad to see the pendulum is finally swinging back to the middle.

For the most part these kids are all dependents relying on parents to pay their way through the world but it's one thing to pay 30K for your kids to be educated, it's another to pay that to have your kids be indoctrinated.

Oh no! Better not have your kid learn about the inequalities in the world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:UVA alum here.
The University Guides serve a purpose to provide campus tours to prospective students which includes historically accurate info on the founding of the school. If your kiddos don’t like to hear that slaves built UVA, then perhaps they aren’t ready for the academic rigor of UVA and the growth that only comes from mature intellectual conversations based on the truth. You can’t shield them from it no matter how hard you try.

The tours at Monticello now finally tell the true story of Sally Hemmings. For decades, her quarters were closed off, and they only used part of it for public restroom, but they finally invested millions of dollars to restore back to the way it was because the story needs to be told.
https://www.monticello.org/sallyhemings/

The African-American History Museum in Washington, DC tells the true story of Thomas Jefferson.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-dark-side-of-thomas-jefferson-35976004/

What is UVA so scared off?
Oh maybe that the kiddos will form their own opinions on these topics?

Well said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought our UVA tour was awkward. We walked by one set of dorms, saw the inside of one building, then spent the rest of the time standing on the Lawn while the guide talked about how racist the community was. Learned very little about the school. The strangest tour we had.

You forgot the part where we had to acknowledge the indigenous people whose land we were trodding upon.

Ours required a moment of silence. People in the tour looked so confused.

Sounds like a few rogue student guides. Not our experience at all.

? It’s literally in the news that UVA adjusted their tours. I highly doubt it was a few rogue guides. Either way, my child isn’t applying. Damage done.

Whatever will they do without your child?

You seriously think it is in UVA’s interest to have tours that turn kids off from applying? You’re being absurd.

For every kid turned off, there are plenty who become more interested, or don’t really care either way. If it really deterred your kid from applying, then it just wasn’t the right school for them. There are thousands upon thousands of others happy to take their place.

I don't think so. The international crowd really doesn't want to hear too much positive or negative about history. Either way they would feel unwelcomed. They likely expect some reference but really care more about the classes, teachers, campus life, and notable achievements of the university in the present.

I’m sure Youngkin’s appointees to the Board of Trustees totally care what the international crowd wants to hear.

Look in the mirror at your own bias. At the root is some sort of superiority need not anything actually useful. You are not that special or woke. Tons of other universities acknowledge history without such an agenda.

What agenda?

I’m definitely not special or woke. I haven’t been on one of these tours yet, but my kid scheduled one in October, so I can’t fully comment on the content until then. But I’m an alum who always found the over-the-top Jefferson worship a bit puzzling, and the downplaying of racial tensions on Grounds a bit troubling, so if the next generation wants to work on that, I say good for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA alum here.
The University Guides serve a purpose to provide campus tours to prospective students which includes historically accurate info on the founding of the school. If your kiddos don’t like to hear that slaves built UVA, then perhaps they aren’t ready for the academic rigor of UVA and the growth that only comes from mature intellectual conversations based on the truth. You can’t shield them from it no matter how hard you try.

The tours at Monticello now finally tell the true story of Sally Hemmings. For decades, her quarters were closed off, and they only used part of it for public restroom, but they finally invested millions of dollars to restore back to the way it was because the story needs to be told.
https://www.monticello.org/sallyhemings/

The African-American History Museum in Washington, DC tells the true story of Thomas Jefferson.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-dark-side-of-thomas-jefferson-35976004/

What is UVA so scared off?
Oh maybe that the kiddos will form their own opinions on these topics?

The fact that you continue to call college-aged students "kiddos" is so telling. Monticello is an appropriate place to tell the story of Sally Hemmings. A UVA tour might mention that the school was built by slaves. But to focus an entire COLLEGE tour on racism?? Sorry, no. That is incredibly misguided. Glad to see the pendulum is finally swinging back to the middle.

For the most part these kids are all dependents relying on parents to pay their way through the world but it's one thing to pay 30K for your kids to be educated, it's another to pay that to have your kids be indoctrinated.

Oh no! Better not have your kid learn about the inequalities in the world.

They don't need to pay $40k to $90k a year to learn about that. In fact paying any money at all for that is a sign of low intelligence.