University of Virginia suspends tours that had come under fire for mentioning Thomas Jefferson's ties to slavery

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It’s not “mention,” it’s “entire focus” of the tour.

Big difference. I am sure the kinds of tours provided at Mount Vernon, which are comprehensive but not agenda- driven woke, will still be given at uva

The “agenda” of acknowledging slavery and fighting racism?

Right. Neither should appear on the agenda when one adult shows another adult the present-day features of a school.

Perseverating on Sally Hemmings 400 years ago does not "fight racism" today. And like PP said, "acknowledging" something from 400 years ago is performative bullshit, because there isn't a high school student in the northern hemisphere who is unaware that slavery occurred.

Really? Seems like a lot of people are pretending like it - and racist policies - never happened.

Look at all of the people fighting racial diversity college admissions.

Yes using race in college admissions is unconstitutional.

Wrong. Elitists hoarding opportunities will only lead to more inequality, less inclusion.

Feel free to push for a constitutional amendment.

Not with the current right-wing, corrupt SCOTUS.

You know that constitutional amendment are how you get around scotus, right?
They literally have nothing to say about that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But let's get real here, no conservative parent in Virginia is going to tell their kid not to apply to UVA if the tour is completely woke and does nothing but talk about the evils of slavery, and no liberal parent in Virginia is going to tell their kid not to apply to UVA if the tour uses a script written by Ron DeSantis that says blacks benefited from slavery.

The content of this tour literally Does Not Matter At All.

Good. UVA doesn’t need conservatives. They’re generally not smart enough to keep up with the classroom rigor anyway

It's sad when people are so egotistical that they think the only people who would have a different opinion from them are idiots.

Conservatives don’t have a “different opinion”; they have “different morals” or, more accurately, a lack of morals.
DP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A couple of positive and negative sentences about the man is fine along with the history of when it was built. After 5 minutes of that you better start talking about the campus life and why I should pay to send my child here. And that goes for any college tour.

If you reserved in advance to travel whatever distance to go on a college tour, I'm pretty sure (or at least hope) you have a good idea what the college offers. People that expect some deal making or breaking sales pitch from guides that are kids about the same age as yours? Do you go to car dealerships in your other free time?

Yes, you're allowed to ask questions to whatever you're curious about and yes, maybe your proud to be a Hoo guide could be as forthcoming about the negatives of campus life as they were of the positives like ours was. It was very insightful to know that where our tour ended was above where the slaves used to sleep and the place where hoodless white grown men unashamedly showed their faces and tried to take over a college campus to defend what again? Is the tour guide free to discuss this? Or should they stick to how the Bros can't wait to rush? Don't worry that was also covered.

Some people are trying to decide between a few schools and their ultimate decision might be affected by how they feel they will "fit" into the school. If you got the feeling that the school was full of mostly white kids that were constantly talking about slavery, it might not feel like the right fit for your kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not “mention,” it’s “entire focus” of the tour.

Big difference. I am sure the kinds of tours provided at Mount Vernon, which are comprehensive but not agenda- driven woke, will still be given at uva

The “agenda” of acknowledging slavery and fighting racism?

Right. Neither should appear on the agenda when one adult shows another adult the present-day features of a school.

Perseverating on Sally Hemmings 400 years ago does not "fight racism" today. And like PP said, "acknowledging" something from 400 years ago is performative bullshit, because there isn't a high school student in the northern hemisphere who is unaware that slavery occurred.

Really? Seems like a lot of people are pretending like it - and racist policies - never happened.

Look at all of the people fighting racial diversity college admissions.

Yes using race in college admissions is unconstitutional.

Wrong. Elitists hoarding opportunities will only lead to more inequality, less inclusion.

Feel free to push for a constitutional amendment.

Not with the current right-wing, corrupt SCOTUS.

You know that constitutional amendment are how you get around scotus, right?
They literally have nothing to say about that.

They can re-interpret amendments in ways to advance the conservative agenda.

They just did it with the equal protection clause.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I thought our UVA tour was awkward. We walked by one set of dorms, saw the inside of one building, then spent the rest of the time standing on the Lawn while the guide talked about how racist the community was. Learned very little about the school. The strangest tour we had.

You forgot the part where we had to acknowledge the indigenous people whose land we were trodding upon.

Ours required a moment of silence. People in the tour looked so confused.

Sounds like a few rogue student guides. Not our experience at all.

? It’s literally in the news that UVA adjusted their tours. I highly doubt it was a few rogue guides. Either way, my child isn’t applying. Damage done.

Whatever will they do without your child?

You seriously think it is in UVA’s interest to have tours that turn kids off from applying? You’re being absurd.

For every kid turned off, there are plenty who become more interested, or don’t really care either way. If it really deterred your kid from applying, then it just wasn’t the right school for them. There are thousands upon thousands of others happy to take their place.

lol if that were the case, they wouldn’t be revising the tours.

Yeah, their application numbers are clearly hurting.

Something caused them to change the tours, yes? They didn’t like the results. Open your eyes.

That “something” was a racist governor who appointed his racist buddies to the board.

Elections have consequences. Try winning more and preaching less.

Calling out racist MFs isn’t “preaching”.

Try winning elections instead of making baseless accusation of racism. People like you have diluted the term racist to the point it just means anyone that I disagree with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not “mention,” it’s “entire focus” of the tour.

Big difference. I am sure the kinds of tours provided at Mount Vernon, which are comprehensive but not agenda- driven woke, will still be given at uva

The “agenda” of acknowledging slavery and fighting racism?

Right. Neither should appear on the agenda when one adult shows another adult the present-day features of a school.

Perseverating on Sally Hemmings 400 years ago does not "fight racism" today. And like PP said, "acknowledging" something from 400 years ago is performative bullshit, because there isn't a high school student in the northern hemisphere who is unaware that slavery occurred.

Really? Seems like a lot of people are pretending like it - and racist policies - never happened.

Look at all of the people fighting racial diversity college admissions.

Yes using race in college admissions is unconstitutional.

Wrong. Elitists hoarding opportunities will only lead to more inequality, less inclusion.

Feel free to push for a constitutional amendment.

Not with the current right-wing, corrupt SCOTUS.

You know that constitutional amendment are how you get around scotus, right?
They literally have nothing to say about that.

They can re-interpret amendments in ways to advance the conservative agenda.

They just did it with the equal protection clause.

Nope, they didn't.
They banned racism in college admissions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: It is just interesting the extent to which elements of the far left are inventing an almost pseudo religion complete with little prayers.

Yes, VA once belonged to other people, centuries before any of us were born. In that, VA is identical to essentially every other square inch of habitable dirt on earth.

Nobody doing a tour of UVA is going to be unaware that there were people in VA before the English arrived, over 400 years ago, under the reign of Queen Elizabeth I….

DP here. I don’t know about that. I look around today and see so many people that can’t agree on things like the earth is round and the moon landing so if you told me someone didn’t think people were in VA before the English arrived I would not be surprised. All it takes is someone to want to gain notoriety by making an outrageous statement and others either start to believe or feel free to admit it and it takes on a life of its own. I’m not even going to get into conspiracy theory alley and some of the things my kids have mentioned is out there on social media that is contrary to what I learned in school as being historical fact….

If for the sake of discussion we supposed there existed a person unaware the English weren’t the first people in VA, what exactly would that have to do with elite college admissions?

LOL. The exact point would be to acknowledge historical facts when you are including historical facts about the university. Correct me if I am wrong but don’t elite colleges like to talk about how they were founded and by whom before getting into the current day? If you are saying what does that have to do with UVA college admissions, I don’t necessarily disagree but I think UVA likes to make a big deal about Thomas Jefferson and being steeped in history. Again, I am not saying a college tour should be a history tour then or now, but if you are going to go there, be historically accurate.

But they only like it when “the history” is idolizing Jefferson.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought our UVA tour was awkward. We walked by one set of dorms, saw the inside of one building, then spent the rest of the time standing on the Lawn while the guide talked about how racist the community was. Learned very little about the school. The strangest tour we had.

You forgot the part where we had to acknowledge the indigenous people whose land we were trodding upon.

Ours required a moment of silence. People in the tour looked so confused.

Sounds like a few rogue student guides. Not our experience at all.

? It’s literally in the news that UVA adjusted their tours. I highly doubt it was a few rogue guides. Either way, my child isn’t applying. Damage done.

Whatever will they do without your child?

You seriously think it is in UVA’s interest to have tours that turn kids off from applying? You’re being absurd.

For every kid turned off, there are plenty who become more interested, or don’t really care either way. If it really deterred your kid from applying, then it just wasn’t the right school for them. There are thousands upon thousands of others happy to take their place.

lol if that were the case, they wouldn’t be revising the tours.

Yeah, their application numbers are clearly hurting.

Something caused them to change the tours, yes? They didn’t like the results. Open your eyes.

That “something” was a racist governor who appointed his racist buddies to the board.

Elections have consequences. Try winning more and preaching less.

Calling out racist MFs isn’t “preaching”.

Try winning elections instead of making baseless accusation of racism. People like you have diluted the term racist to the point it just means anyone that I disagree with.

It means anyone who wants to rollback the progress we’ve made wrt racial inequality. And those who DGAF about racism.

If people are calling you “racist” often then you should reflect on that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not “mention,” it’s “entire focus” of the tour.

Big difference. I am sure the kinds of tours provided at Mount Vernon, which are comprehensive but not agenda- driven woke, will still be given at uva

The “agenda” of acknowledging slavery and fighting racism?

Right. Neither should appear on the agenda when one adult shows another adult the present-day features of a school.

Perseverating on Sally Hemmings 400 years ago does not "fight racism" today. And like PP said, "acknowledging" something from 400 years ago is performative bullshit, because there isn't a high school student in the northern hemisphere who is unaware that slavery occurred.

Really? Seems like a lot of people are pretending like it - and racist policies - never happened.

Look at all of the people fighting racial diversity college admissions.

Yes using race in college admissions is unconstitutional.

Wrong. Elitists hoarding opportunities will only lead to more inequality, less inclusion.

Feel free to push for a constitutional amendment.

Not with the current right-wing, corrupt SCOTUS.

You know that constitutional amendment are how you get around scotus, right?
They literally have nothing to say about that.

They can re-interpret amendments in ways to advance the conservative agenda.

They just did it with the equal protection clause.

Nope, they didn't.
They banned racism in college admissions.

They did make a new interpretation of the 14th amendment last year and are considering more changes.

https://constitutioncenter.org/the-constitution/amendments/amendment-xiv/clauses/702

SCOTUS has plenty to say about amendments.

Not that we can get anything done in Congress in the near-term with the RWNJ obstructionists in office.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought our UVA tour was awkward. We walked by one set of dorms, saw the inside of one building, then spent the rest of the time standing on the Lawn while the guide talked about how racist the community was. Learned very little about the school. The strangest tour we had.

You forgot the part where we had to acknowledge the indigenous people whose land we were trodding upon.

Ours required a moment of silence. People in the tour looked so confused.

Sounds like a few rogue student guides. Not our experience at all.

I think that has been the problem with the tours - there ARE no standards. There is no script. There's nothing to go rogue off of. Really awful.

This didn't used top be a problem before.
It's only a problem now because UVA has been selecting for "activists" or a particular flavor for a while and why would those kids stop being activist once they are given freedom and responsibility.
Being a SJW shouldn't be any more of a hook than any other EC.

+100
At this point, seeing what we’ve all seen re: the bad behavior of SJWs, it should be a strike against you when applying to colleges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought our UVA tour was awkward. We walked by one set of dorms, saw the inside of one building, then spent the rest of the time standing on the Lawn while the guide talked about how racist the community was. Learned very little about the school. The strangest tour we had.

You forgot the part where we had to acknowledge the indigenous people whose land we were trodding upon.

Ours required a moment of silence. People in the tour looked so confused.

Sounds like a few rogue student guides. Not our experience at all.

? It’s literally in the news that UVA adjusted their tours. I highly doubt it was a few rogue guides. Either way, my child isn’t applying. Damage done.

Whatever will they do without your child?

You seriously think it is in UVA’s interest to have tours that turn kids off from applying? You’re being absurd.

For every kid turned off, there are plenty who become more interested, or don’t really care either way. If it really deterred your kid from applying, then it just wasn’t the right school for them. There are thousands upon thousands of others happy to take their place.

lol if that were the case, they wouldn’t be revising the tours.

Yeah, their application numbers are clearly hurting.

Something caused them to change the tours, yes? They didn’t like the results. Open your eyes.

That “something” was a racist governor who appointed his racist buddies to the board.

Elections have consequences. Try winning more and preaching less.

Calling out racist MFs isn’t “preaching”.

You’re an idiot if you think your “anti-racism” shtick is appropriate on a college tour. Go protest somewhere else.
DP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But let's get real here, no conservative parent in Virginia is going to tell their kid not to apply to UVA if the tour is completely woke and does nothing but talk about the evils of slavery, and no liberal parent in Virginia is going to tell their kid not to apply to UVA if the tour uses a script written by Ron DeSantis that says blacks benefited from slavery.

The content of this tour literally Does Not Matter At All.

Good. UVA doesn’t need conservatives. They’re generally not smart enough to keep up with the classroom rigor anyway

It's sad when people are so egotistical that they think the only people who would have a different opinion from them are idiots.

Conservatives don’t have a “different opinion”; they have “different morals” or, more accurately, a lack of morals.
DP.

DP. Keep it up. If you are in any way indicative of what kind of nonsense awaits at UVA, I’m happy to spread the word. Your moment has come and gone.

[Anonymous]

DP. Keep it up. If you are in any way indicative of what kind of nonsense awaits at UVA, I’m happy to spread the word. Your moment has come and gone

What are you on about? Spread the word? I think people already know. UVA received 58,995 applications this year, while these tours were still being offered. That's 2556 more apps than last year and there's only about 4000 seats in the 1st year class. It seems seems silly to base such a significant decision on one data point, but as PPs have suggested, if some decided not to apply based on a tour, UVA probably wasn't the right fit for those kids anyway.

[Anonymous]

I've lived here for almost 3 decades but didn't grow up here. Here's what I don't get: White people in the south love to talk about heritage and family and how they are whatever number generation American in their family. and how their proud ancestor so and so was some Confederate somebody who fought in a war that wasn't about whether one human being could be owned by another. Why is it that within this proud heritage I have never had one white southerner apologize and volunteer that their ancestors owned slaves or actively fought against integration? I mean there must be tens of thousands of southern whites alive today that could say this. I'd think that part of growing up and moving on would be to acknowledge skeletons in your closet.

Instead, some in this forum constantly use loaded terms such as "fitting in" to describe how some progressive idea will negatively impact their kid for life. Many minorities have already learned the "fitting in" skill by facing constant tacit hostility and microaggressions from white people since they were born. And let's face it, fitting in is either code for something else or a really low bar you allow your child to set. Perhaps you sheltered them too much and they haven't formed any callouses yet.

Everyone on this forum is so convicted about their ideas no matter which side they're on; how about letting your kids go to a diverse environment and meet people of other beliefs so that we don't stay so divided? It's 2024 and it's pathetic that this country is still so segregated. Maybe I was "lucky" but it was as an adult that I had my life altering moment: All my life I never realized that racism is an actual tangible, palpable sixth sense until I had an interaction with a traffic cop the first weekend I moved here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've lived here for almost 3 decades but didn't grow up here. Here's what I don't get: White people in the south love to talk about heritage and family and how they are whatever number generation American in their family. and how their proud ancestor so and so was some Confederate somebody who fought in a war that wasn't about whether one human being could be owned by another. Why is it that within this proud heritage I have never had one white southerner apologize and volunteer that their ancestors owned slaves or actively fought against integration? I mean there must be tens of thousands of southern whites alive today that could say this. I'd think that part of growing up and moving on would be to acknowledge skeletons in your closet.

Instead, some in this forum constantly use loaded terms such as "fitting in" to describe how some progressive idea will negatively impact their kid for life. Many minorities have already learned the "fitting in" skill by facing constant tacit hostility and microaggressions from white people since they were born. And let's face it, fitting in is either code for something else or a really low bar you allow your child to set. Perhaps you sheltered them too much and they haven't formed any callouses yet.

Everyone on this forum is so convicted about their ideas no matter which side they're on; how about letting your kids go to a diverse environment and meet people of other beliefs so that we don't stay so divided? It's 2024 and it's pathetic that this country is still so segregated. Maybe I was "lucky" but it was as an adult that I had my life altering moment: All my life I never realized that racism is an actual tangible, palpable sixth sense until I had an interaction with a traffic cop the first weekend I moved here.

I need to apologize for things that happened 200 years ago? That I had nothing to do with? What?