Poll shows the debate only changed 7% of people's minds...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Voting for him, or whoever the dem nominee is, no matter what.

That's intelligent.

As intelligent as MAGAs devoted to a convicted rapist and felon.

Agreed and I can't believe this is the choice we have. But I will vote for whoever is on the D ticket.

Let's hope Biden isn't on the D ticket so that enough people join you to defeat Trump in November. Is a 50 year egomaniac politician capable of doing the right thing in this circumstance? We'll find out. I think Biden has the decency in him.

Do we even know if another candidate would fare better against Trump? I want data. LOL

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:...about whether Biden is cognitively capable of being president.

65% saw him as unfit for office prior to the debate, and that only went up to 72%

https://mol.im/a/13585619

Notwithstanding this, the race is still tight, meaning that a sizable percentage of people (~20%) are okay voting for someone they view as cognitively unfit to lead the free world.

This is interesting because I got the impression from DCUM that there was widespread ignorance about Biden’s... let's call it affect. DCUM has consistently expressed a belief that Biden is spry and mentally agile, particularly when compared to his opponent Trump. While some DCUMers have since acknowledged that they ignored the signs, many are committed to a belief that either Biden is okay, or that his cognitive health is irrelevant to his job performance. By the numbers, this means DCUM is basically inhabited by among the most committed and perhaps extreme supporters on the left.

"Only" 7%? This makes it sound like a 7% shift is trivial. That is a big shift.

It definitely matters because it's a swing vote shift. 70% to 80% of all voters are the lower IQ sheep that will vote for any and all candidates put forth by their party of choice every election. It's the 20% to 30% of independent/uncommitted/swing voters that matter and 7% is a large chunk of those folks.

I doubt it is as high as 7%. Most people had their minds made up.

All of this ignores GenZ. Many of whom turned 18 after 2020. To those of us living with them (or not while they’re in college, many in swing states) it looks like they’ve been forgotten.

Do you remember the footage of college students lined up to vote during the mid term elections? They know what’s at stake and I doubt they will sit this one out.

Yes, I do. My kid waited in line for 5 hours to vote in a swing state. I’m not sure that will happen this year. If you’re around GenZ you know what they’re saying. It’s not good. I don’t blame them.

Relax. As long as Biden does the right thing by stepping away from his pursuit for a second term, a majority of swing voters of all ages will be willing to do what is necessary to keep Trump from winning in November. I think Biden will do the right thing. If he doesn't, your fears are warranted.

Is Biden the best candidate. No. but don’t underestimate the people that will vote blue no matter what.

[Anonymous]

He isn’t stepping down. He won’t. He thinks he is fine and Jill wants to stay. That’s how much they believe in democracy. They aren’t going to give you a choice. It’s Biden. They believe so much in their own right to the job and the perks and the lifestyle that we don’t get a choice of anyone else to run against Trump. I never loved Biden but he was fine. Now I feel so much anger and contempt for him and his family that I’m out. Won’t vote for Trump but I will not support this. Call that a vote for Trump. Fine. But the DNC should have managed this better and it deserves to lose. And in my heart, much as I dislike Trump, I don’t view him as any more of threat to democracy than anyone else and frankly, he is coherent. Won’t vote for him but I don’t fear another Trump presidency.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:He isn’t stepping down. He won’t. He thinks he is fine and Jill wants to stay. That’s how much they believe in democracy. They aren’t going to give you a choice. It’s Biden. They believe so much in their own right to the job and the perks and the lifestyle that we don’t get a choice of anyone else to run against Trump. I never loved Biden but he was fine. Now I feel so much anger and contempt for him and his family that I’m out. Won’t vote for Trump but I will not support this. Call that a vote for Trump. Fine. But the DNC should have managed this better and it deserves to lose. And in my heart, much as I dislike Trump, I don’t view him as any more of threat to democracy than anyone else and frankly, he is coherent. Won’t vote for him but I don’t fear another Trump presidency.

Well said. I am not voting for Biden either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:...about whether Biden is cognitively capable of being president.

65% saw him as unfit for office prior to the debate, and that only went up to 72%

https://mol.im/a/13585619

Notwithstanding this, the race is still tight, meaning that a sizable percentage of people (~20%) are okay voting for someone they view as cognitively unfit to lead the free world.

This is interesting because I got the impression from DCUM that there was widespread ignorance about Biden’s... let's call it affect. DCUM has consistently expressed a belief that Biden is spry and mentally agile, particularly when compared to his opponent Trump. While some DCUMers have since acknowledged that they ignored the signs, many are committed to a belief that either Biden is okay, or that his cognitive health is irrelevant to his job performance. By the numbers, this means DCUM is basically inhabited by among the most committed and perhaps extreme supporters on the left.

"Only" 7%? This makes it sound like a 7% shift is trivial. That is a big shift.

It definitely matters because it's a swing vote shift. 70% to 80% of all voters are the lower IQ sheep that will vote for any and all candidates put forth by their party of choice every election. It's the 20% to 30% of independent/uncommitted/swing voters that matter and 7% is a large chunk of those folks.

I doubt it is as high as 7%. Most people had their minds made up.

All of this ignores GenZ. Many of whom turned 18 after 2020. To those of us living with them (or not while they’re in college, many in swing states) it looks like they’ve been forgotten.

Do you remember the footage of college students lined up to vote during the mid term elections? They know what’s at stake and I doubt they will sit this one out.

Yes, I do. My kid waited in line for 5 hours to vote in a swing state. I’m not sure that will happen this year. If you’re around GenZ you know what they’re saying. It’s not good. I don’t blame them.

Relax. As long as Biden does the right thing by stepping away from his pursuit for a second term, a majority of swing voters of all ages will be willing to do what is necessary to keep Trump from winning in November. I think Biden will do the right thing. If he doesn't, your fears are warranted.

Is Biden the best candidate. No. but don’t underestimate the people that will vote blue no matter what.

Yes, the careless sheep that vote red and blue no matter what will continue to exist. This election, like most, will be decided by swing voters in swing states and all those voters are looking for is a normal candidate to save them from the Trump/Biden mess.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:...about whether Biden is cognitively capable of being president.

65% saw him as unfit for office prior to the debate, and that only went up to 72%

https://mol.im/a/13585619

Notwithstanding this, the race is still tight, meaning that a sizable percentage of people (~20%) are okay voting for someone they view as cognitively unfit to lead the free world.

This is interesting because I got the impression from DCUM that there was widespread ignorance about Biden’s... let's call it affect. DCUM has consistently expressed a belief that Biden is spry and mentally agile, particularly when compared to his opponent Trump. While some DCUMers have since acknowledged that they ignored the signs, many are committed to a belief that either Biden is okay, or that his cognitive health is irrelevant to his job performance. By the numbers, this means DCUM is basically inhabited by among the most committed and perhaps extreme supporters on the left.

"Only" 7%? This makes it sound like a 7% shift is trivial. That is a big shift.

It definitely matters because it's a swing vote shift. 70% to 80% of all voters are the lower IQ sheep that will vote for any and all candidates put forth by their party of choice every election. It's the 20% to 30% of independent/uncommitted/swing voters that matter and 7% is a large chunk of those folks.

I doubt it is as high as 7%. Most people had their minds made up.

All of this ignores GenZ. Many of whom turned 18 after 2020. To those of us living with them (or not while they’re in college, many in swing states) it looks like they’ve been forgotten.

Do you remember the footage of college students lined up to vote during the mid term elections? They know what’s at stake and I doubt they will sit this one out.

Young people and 1st time voters aren't predictable or reliable. In the case of the 2024 election, I can't see them being duped into voting for Trump or Biden like we'll see with so many of the older folks that refuse to admit they were wrong. They'll look at two elderly people that have no business being POTUS until 2029 on the major party tickets and most will vote 3rd party or choose not to vote at all. Can't say I blame them. Let's hope Biden drops out of the race so we don't have to worry about this.

But the 2022 and 2023 elections seem to counter your argument. Once abortion rigths are on the ballot, as they were in 2022 and 2023 in Kansas, Ohio, Kentucky and Virginia, the 18-35 demographics came out in record numbers. Many who had never voted, registered. And many who had been registered, but never voted, voted. And they came out about 60-85% in favor of the abortion rights issue. This year, you have a candidate who is beholden to his conservative base who will be pushed very hard by his die hard followers, to try and legislate and pass nationwide abortion bans. He has come out and said he would not push for that, but he has not said that if Congress sends him a bill, that he will not sign it. He's only said he will not push the legislation himself. Additionally, he has been known to frequently lie about his platform. He will say whatever is expedient and do whatever is in his own best interests, consistently. So, if Congress sends him a bill and it is in his best interest to sign it, he will sign it. If he can bargain some personal gain for himself, he'll sign it.

Young voters know very well that the Republican ticket will be advocating for and try hard to pass a national abortion ban law. And they know that Democrats will try to prevent that and secure more abortion rights nation-wide. And who is most impacted by having abortion rights? Those voters who are in their prime child-bearing years and who will have to make the most decisions about family planning, e.g. the 18-24 and 25-34 year old demographics. These are the people who will have to decide whether a child will completely change their lives and life plans, who will have to decide whether a child with severe complications will work for their family, whether the child is important enough to risk the mother's health and or life, and so on. They want to have the choice to do what is best based on what their doctor's recommend, so they want to have the options that families have had for the last 50 years.

Also remember that those who are under 26 were not eligible to vote in 2016 and those who are under 22 were not eligible to vote in 2020. There are a lot of people who have not had the option to weigh in on whether these candidates were the right choices, and now they do. And with one of the most important issues for themselves on the ballot, they'll come out to vote. Those demographics care much more about whether they have the personal right to make a choice about if, whether, or when to have a family than about immigration and illegal aliens.

I agree and all we need is a normal/viable Dem candidate to carry this momentum to a victory in the 2024 election. Let's pray Biden does the right thing.

But, even without changing candidates, I still think that the unregistered young demographics will do what they did in 2022 and 2023, they will come out and register to vote and will vote for the party platform that will protect their right to make bodily and reproductive decisions. There are very few young men who want to have a child and child obligations for living their lives, dating, and having sex with their partners. And there are very few young women who want to have their lives derailed because of failed contraception. And there are many young couples who do not want to be forced into a decision that is wrong for them, threatens their health or lives or forces them to do something that could destroy them financially, such as being forced to carry a child that will not survive more than a few weeks past birth, and be saddled with hundreds of thousands of dollars of medical costs that insurance will not fully cover.

These are the things that the critical young demographic can see and whether or not Biden is still on the ticket or not, they'll vote that way. There are relatively few unregistered voters or registered non-voters that are coming out to support the Republican party. Most of those (the fringe elements like gun advocates, domestic terrorist groups like Oath Breakers, Proud Boys, etc) came out in 2020, which is why Trump had record numbers. They are already accounted for and there aren't that many who are still going to come out.

But the youth vote did not come out because they are mostly politically apathetic. Until Roe v Wade happened. Now, they won't be so complacent, since an issue that is very important to them is on the ballot. They will come out just like they did in 2022 and 2023 to protect their own rights.

Really? What exactly are you saying? Would you rather Biden stay in the race with the hopes that enough young voters vote blue to give him a 50/50 chance of winning or would you rather Biden get out of the way so that we have a 99% chance of beating Trump? Do you enjoy excitement of a close presidential race so much that you'd risk handing Trump four more years in power? Not me. I think you're well meaning but misguided and you need to rethink what is most important.

No. I am saying that I have very little vote in whether or not Biden steps down or not. This is a decision that will be made at the top levels of the Democratic National Convention, and is not going to be influenced by polls or grass roots actions. Even if grass roots voters or polls had an effect, I'm not even a registered Democrat, so I have even less influence/effect on such a decision.

All I am saying is regardless of whether Biden steps down or not, I am a staunch anti-Trump voter who will vote to keep Trump from office. And I think that there are enough anti-Trump votes, combined wth the younger demographics who will come out strongly in favor of the Democratic ticket, soley to protect their own personal rights. And I think that this will be enought to keep Trump from winning the November election.

I'm not advocating one way or another for Biden.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:...about whether Biden is cognitively capable of being president.

65% saw him as unfit for office prior to the debate, and that only went up to 72%

https://mol.im/a/13585619

Notwithstanding this, the race is still tight, meaning that a sizable percentage of people (~20%) are okay voting for someone they view as cognitively unfit to lead the free world.

This is interesting because I got the impression from DCUM that there was widespread ignorance about Biden’s... let's call it affect. DCUM has consistently expressed a belief that Biden is spry and mentally agile, particularly when compared to his opponent Trump. While some DCUMers have since acknowledged that they ignored the signs, many are committed to a belief that either Biden is okay, or that his cognitive health is irrelevant to his job performance. By the numbers, this means DCUM is basically inhabited by among the most committed and perhaps extreme supporters on the left.

"Only" 7%? This makes it sound like a 7% shift is trivial. That is a big shift.

It definitely matters because it's a swing vote shift. 70% to 80% of all voters are the lower IQ sheep that will vote for any and all candidates put forth by their party of choice every election. It's the 20% to 30% of independent/uncommitted/swing voters that matter and 7% is a large chunk of those folks.

I doubt it is as high as 7%. Most people had their minds made up.

All of this ignores GenZ. Many of whom turned 18 after 2020. To those of us living with them (or not while they’re in college, many in swing states) it looks like they’ve been forgotten.

Do you remember the footage of college students lined up to vote during the mid term elections? They know what’s at stake and I doubt they will sit this one out.

Young people and 1st time voters aren't predictable or reliable. In the case of the 2024 election, I can't see them being duped into voting for Trump or Biden like we'll see with so many of the older folks that refuse to admit they were wrong. They'll look at two elderly people that have no business being POTUS until 2029 on the major party tickets and most will vote 3rd party or choose not to vote at all. Can't say I blame them. Let's hope Biden drops out of the race so we don't have to worry about this.

But the 2022 and 2023 elections seem to counter your argument. Once abortion rigths are on the ballot, as they were in 2022 and 2023 in Kansas, Ohio, Kentucky and Virginia, the 18-35 demographics came out in record numbers. Many who had never voted, registered. And many who had been registered, but never voted, voted. And they came out about 60-85% in favor of the abortion rights issue. This year, you have a candidate who is beholden to his conservative base who will be pushed very hard by his die hard followers, to try and legislate and pass nationwide abortion bans. He has come out and said he would not push for that, but he has not said that if Congress sends him a bill, that he will not sign it. He's only said he will not push the legislation himself. Additionally, he has been known to frequently lie about his platform. He will say whatever is expedient and do whatever is in his own best interests, consistently. So, if Congress sends him a bill and it is in his best interest to sign it, he will sign it. If he can bargain some personal gain for himself, he'll sign it.

Young voters know very well that the Republican ticket will be advocating for and try hard to pass a national abortion ban law. And they know that Democrats will try to prevent that and secure more abortion rights nation-wide. And who is most impacted by having abortion rights? Those voters who are in their prime child-bearing years and who will have to make the most decisions about family planning, e.g. the 18-24 and 25-34 year old demographics. These are the people who will have to decide whether a child will completely change their lives and life plans, who will have to decide whether a child with severe complications will work for their family, whether the child is important enough to risk the mother's health and or life, and so on. They want to have the choice to do what is best based on what their doctor's recommend, so they want to have the options that families have had for the last 50 years.

Also remember that those who are under 26 were not eligible to vote in 2016 and those who are under 22 were not eligible to vote in 2020. There are a lot of people who have not had the option to weigh in on whether these candidates were the right choices, and now they do. And with one of the most important issues for themselves on the ballot, they'll come out to vote. Those demographics care much more about whether they have the personal right to make a choice about if, whether, or when to have a family than about immigration and illegal aliens.

+1

A lot of voters really thought the GOP would never really grab that third rail. How many (pro choice!) people on this site told us we were crazy for saying where we thought the Republican Party was going to go with abortion? “Hysterical” was a word thrown around with a lot of regularity (without a trace of irony as to where that word came from).

The media is bending over backward for Trump. Once again they are not talking about his drawbacks, all of which are far more numerous than they were in 2016 or even in 2020. They don’t mention abortion or the millions of lives already affected by the loss of it, they don’t mention his treason, they don’t mention Project 2025. But I think despite that, and the loss of Twitter as a functional site for sane people, young voters are going to come out in droves for Biden and the Democrats. What the GOP offers is too awful to ignore,

[Anonymous]

You didn’t have the votes according to polls prior to this debacle of a debate - where do you think you’ll get them now as the Democratic Party splinters into factions to find a substitute for Biden?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:...about whether Biden is cognitively capable of being president.

65% saw him as unfit for office prior to the debate, and that only went up to 72%

https://mol.im/a/13585619

Notwithstanding this, the race is still tight, meaning that a sizable percentage of people (~20%) are okay voting for someone they view as cognitively unfit to lead the free world.

This is interesting because I got the impression from DCUM that there was widespread ignorance about Biden’s... let's call it affect. DCUM has consistently expressed a belief that Biden is spry and mentally agile, particularly when compared to his opponent Trump. While some DCUMers have since acknowledged that they ignored the signs, many are committed to a belief that either Biden is okay, or that his cognitive health is irrelevant to his job performance. By the numbers, this means DCUM is basically inhabited by among the most committed and perhaps extreme supporters on the left.

"Only" 7%? This makes it sound like a 7% shift is trivial. That is a big shift.

It definitely matters because it's a swing vote shift. 70% to 80% of all voters are the lower IQ sheep that will vote for any and all candidates put forth by their party of choice every election. It's the 20% to 30% of independent/uncommitted/swing voters that matter and 7% is a large chunk of those folks.

I doubt it is as high as 7%. Most people had their minds made up.

All of this ignores GenZ. Many of whom turned 18 after 2020. To those of us living with them (or not while they’re in college, many in swing states) it looks like they’ve been forgotten.

Do you remember the footage of college students lined up to vote during the mid term elections? They know what’s at stake and I doubt they will sit this one out.

Yes, I do. My kid waited in line for 5 hours to vote in a swing state. I’m not sure that will happen this year. If you’re around GenZ you know what they’re saying. It’s not good. I don’t blame them.

Relax. As long as Biden does the right thing by stepping away from his pursuit for a second term, a majority of swing voters of all ages will be willing to do what is necessary to keep Trump from winning in November. I think Biden will do the right thing. If he doesn't, your fears are warranted.

Is Biden the best candidate. No. but don’t underestimate the people that will vote blue no matter what.

Yes, the careless sheep that vote red and blue no matter what will continue to exist. This election, like most, will be decided by swing voters in swing states and all those voters are looking for is a normal candidate to save them from the Trump/Biden mess.

Wow, way to talk down to people who vote Democratic. I have looked at my options and concluded that the GOP offers nothing for the betterment of anyone or anything. Until that changes, why the hell would I vote for a Republican?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:...about whether Biden is cognitively capable of being president.

65% saw him as unfit for office prior to the debate, and that only went up to 72%

https://mol.im/a/13585619

Notwithstanding this, the race is still tight, meaning that a sizable percentage of people (~20%) are okay voting for someone they view as cognitively unfit to lead the free world.

This is interesting because I got the impression from DCUM that there was widespread ignorance about Biden’s... let's call it affect. DCUM has consistently expressed a belief that Biden is spry and mentally agile, particularly when compared to his opponent Trump. While some DCUMers have since acknowledged that they ignored the signs, many are committed to a belief that either Biden is okay, or that his cognitive health is irrelevant to his job performance. By the numbers, this means DCUM is basically inhabited by among the most committed and perhaps extreme supporters on the left.

"Only" 7%? This makes it sound like a 7% shift is trivial. That is a big shift.

It definitely matters because it's a swing vote shift. 70% to 80% of all voters are the lower IQ sheep that will vote for any and all candidates put forth by their party of choice every election. It's the 20% to 30% of independent/uncommitted/swing voters that matter and 7% is a large chunk of those folks.

I doubt it is as high as 7%. Most people had their minds made up.

All of this ignores GenZ. Many of whom turned 18 after 2020. To those of us living with them (or not while they’re in college, many in swing states) it looks like they’ve been forgotten.

Do you remember the footage of college students lined up to vote during the mid term elections? They know what’s at stake and I doubt they will sit this one out.

Young people and 1st time voters aren't predictable or reliable. In the case of the 2024 election, I can't see them being duped into voting for Trump or Biden like we'll see with so many of the older folks that refuse to admit they were wrong. They'll look at two elderly people that have no business being POTUS until 2029 on the major party tickets and most will vote 3rd party or choose not to vote at all. Can't say I blame them. Let's hope Biden drops out of the race so we don't have to worry about this.

But the 2022 and 2023 elections seem to counter your argument. Once abortion rigths are on the ballot, as they were in 2022 and 2023 in Kansas, Ohio, Kentucky and Virginia, the 18-35 demographics came out in record numbers. Many who had never voted, registered. And many who had been registered, but never voted, voted. And they came out about 60-85% in favor of the abortion rights issue. This year, you have a candidate who is beholden to his conservative base who will be pushed very hard by his die hard followers, to try and legislate and pass nationwide abortion bans. He has come out and said he would not push for that, but he has not said that if Congress sends him a bill, that he will not sign it. He's only said he will not push the legislation himself. Additionally, he has been known to frequently lie about his platform. He will say whatever is expedient and do whatever is in his own best interests, consistently. So, if Congress sends him a bill and it is in his best interest to sign it, he will sign it. If he can bargain some personal gain for himself, he'll sign it.

Young voters know very well that the Republican ticket will be advocating for and try hard to pass a national abortion ban law. And they know that Democrats will try to prevent that and secure more abortion rights nation-wide. And who is most impacted by having abortion rights? Those voters who are in their prime child-bearing years and who will have to make the most decisions about family planning, e.g. the 18-24 and 25-34 year old demographics. These are the people who will have to decide whether a child will completely change their lives and life plans, who will have to decide whether a child with severe complications will work for their family, whether the child is important enough to risk the mother's health and or life, and so on. They want to have the choice to do what is best based on what their doctor's recommend, so they want to have the options that families have had for the last 50 years.

Also remember that those who are under 26 were not eligible to vote in 2016 and those who are under 22 were not eligible to vote in 2020. There are a lot of people who have not had the option to weigh in on whether these candidates were the right choices, and now they do. And with one of the most important issues for themselves on the ballot, they'll come out to vote. Those demographics care much more about whether they have the personal right to make a choice about if, whether, or when to have a family than about immigration and illegal aliens.

+1

A lot of voters really thought the GOP would never really grab that third rail. How many (pro choice!) people on this site told us we were crazy for saying where we thought the Republican Party was going to go with abortion? “Hysterical” was a word thrown around with a lot of regularity (without a trace of irony as to where that word came from).

The media is bending over backward for Trump. Once again they are not talking about his drawbacks, all of which are far more numerous than they were in 2016 or even in 2020. They don’t mention abortion or the millions of lives already affected by the loss of it, they don’t mention his treason, they don’t mention Project 2025. But I think despite that, and the loss of Twitter as a functional site for sane people, young voters are going to come out in droves for Biden and the Democrats. What the GOP offers is too awful to ignore,

The more likely scenario is that Trump is elected by these voters and blue leaning people split their ticket favoring democrats down ballot. If they show up at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:...about whether Biden is cognitively capable of being president.

65% saw him as unfit for office prior to the debate, and that only went up to 72%

https://mol.im/a/13585619

Notwithstanding this, the race is still tight, meaning that a sizable percentage of people (~20%) are okay voting for someone they view as cognitively unfit to lead the free world.

This is interesting because I got the impression from DCUM that there was widespread ignorance about Biden’s... let's call it affect. DCUM has consistently expressed a belief that Biden is spry and mentally agile, particularly when compared to his opponent Trump. While some DCUMers have since acknowledged that they ignored the signs, many are committed to a belief that either Biden is okay, or that his cognitive health is irrelevant to his job performance. By the numbers, this means DCUM is basically inhabited by among the most committed and perhaps extreme supporters on the left.

"Only" 7%? This makes it sound like a 7% shift is trivial. That is a big shift.

It definitely matters because it's a swing vote shift. 70% to 80% of all voters are the lower IQ sheep that will vote for any and all candidates put forth by their party of choice every election. It's the 20% to 30% of independent/uncommitted/swing voters that matter and 7% is a large chunk of those folks.

I doubt it is as high as 7%. Most people had their minds made up.

All of this ignores GenZ. Many of whom turned 18 after 2020. To those of us living with them (or not while they’re in college, many in swing states) it looks like they’ve been forgotten.

Do you remember the footage of college students lined up to vote during the mid term elections? They know what’s at stake and I doubt they will sit this one out.

Young people and 1st time voters aren't predictable or reliable. In the case of the 2024 election, I can't see them being duped into voting for Trump or Biden like we'll see with so many of the older folks that refuse to admit they were wrong. They'll look at two elderly people that have no business being POTUS until 2029 on the major party tickets and most will vote 3rd party or choose not to vote at all. Can't say I blame them. Let's hope Biden drops out of the race so we don't have to worry about this.

But the 2022 and 2023 elections seem to counter your argument. Once abortion rigths are on the ballot, as they were in 2022 and 2023 in Kansas, Ohio, Kentucky and Virginia, the 18-35 demographics came out in record numbers. Many who had never voted, registered. And many who had been registered, but never voted, voted. And they came out about 60-85% in favor of the abortion rights issue. This year, you have a candidate who is beholden to his conservative base who will be pushed very hard by his die hard followers, to try and legislate and pass nationwide abortion bans. He has come out and said he would not push for that, but he has not said that if Congress sends him a bill, that he will not sign it. He's only said he will not push the legislation himself. Additionally, he has been known to frequently lie about his platform. He will say whatever is expedient and do whatever is in his own best interests, consistently. So, if Congress sends him a bill and it is in his best interest to sign it, he will sign it. If he can bargain some personal gain for himself, he'll sign it.

Young voters know very well that the Republican ticket will be advocating for and try hard to pass a national abortion ban law. And they know that Democrats will try to prevent that and secure more abortion rights nation-wide. And who is most impacted by having abortion rights? Those voters who are in their prime child-bearing years and who will have to make the most decisions about family planning, e.g. the 18-24 and 25-34 year old demographics. These are the people who will have to decide whether a child will completely change their lives and life plans, who will have to decide whether a child with severe complications will work for their family, whether the child is important enough to risk the mother's health and or life, and so on. They want to have the choice to do what is best based on what their doctor's recommend, so they want to have the options that families have had for the last 50 years.

Also remember that those who are under 26 were not eligible to vote in 2016 and those who are under 22 were not eligible to vote in 2020. There are a lot of people who have not had the option to weigh in on whether these candidates were the right choices, and now they do. And with one of the most important issues for themselves on the ballot, they'll come out to vote. Those demographics care much more about whether they have the personal right to make a choice about if, whether, or when to have a family than about immigration and illegal aliens.

I agree and all we need is a normal/viable Dem candidate to carry this momentum to a victory in the 2024 election. Let's pray Biden does the right thing.

But, even without changing candidates, I still think that the unregistered young demographics will do what they did in 2022 and 2023, they will come out and register to vote and will vote for the party platform that will protect their right to make bodily and reproductive decisions. There are very few young men who want to have a child and child obligations for living their lives, dating, and having sex with their partners. And there are very few young women who want to have their lives derailed because of failed contraception. And there are many young couples who do not want to be forced into a decision that is wrong for them, threatens their health or lives or forces them to do something that could destroy them financially, such as being forced to carry a child that will not survive more than a few weeks past birth, and be saddled with hundreds of thousands of dollars of medical costs that insurance will not fully cover.

These are the things that the critical young demographic can see and whether or not Biden is still on the ticket or not, they'll vote that way. There are relatively few unregistered voters or registered non-voters that are coming out to support the Republican party. Most of those (the fringe elements like gun advocates, domestic terrorist groups like Oath Breakers, Proud Boys, etc) came out in 2020, which is why Trump had record numbers. They are already accounted for and there aren't that many who are still going to come out.

But the youth vote did not come out because they are mostly politically apathetic. Until Roe v Wade happened. Now, they won't be so complacent, since an issue that is very important to them is on the ballot. They will come out just like they did in 2022 and 2023 to protect their own rights.

Really? What exactly are you saying? Would you rather Biden stay in the race with the hopes that enough young voters vote blue to give him a 50/50 chance of winning or would you rather Biden get out of the way so that we have a 99% chance of beating Trump? Do you enjoy excitement of a close presidential race so much that you'd risk handing Trump four more years in power? Not me. I think you're well meaning but misguided and you need to rethink what is most important.

No. I am saying that I have very little vote in whether or not Biden steps down or not. This is a decision that will be made at the top levels of the Democratic National Convention, and is not going to be influenced by polls or grass roots actions. Even if grass roots voters or polls had an effect, I'm not even a registered Democrat, so I have even less influence/effect on such a decision.

All I am saying is regardless of whether Biden steps down or not, I am a staunch anti-Trump voter who will vote to keep Trump from office. And I think that there are enough anti-Trump votes, combined wth the younger demographics who will come out strongly in favor of the Democratic ticket, soley to protect their own personal rights. And I think that this will be enought to keep Trump from winning the November election.

I'm not advocating one way or another for Biden.

Fair enough. I think the decision is Biden's and Biden's alone. I also have faith that he will do the right thing and that right thing will give us the guarantee of a victory over Trump. Could Biden still win if he chooses to stay in race? Possibly, but it's far from the guarantee we should be looking for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:...about whether Biden is cognitively capable of being president.

65% saw him as unfit for office prior to the debate, and that only went up to 72%

https://mol.im/a/13585619

Notwithstanding this, the race is still tight, meaning that a sizable percentage of people (~20%) are okay voting for someone they view as cognitively unfit to lead the free world.

This is interesting because I got the impression from DCUM that there was widespread ignorance about Biden’s... let's call it affect. DCUM has consistently expressed a belief that Biden is spry and mentally agile, particularly when compared to his opponent Trump. While some DCUMers have since acknowledged that they ignored the signs, many are committed to a belief that either Biden is okay, or that his cognitive health is irrelevant to his job performance. By the numbers, this means DCUM is basically inhabited by among the most committed and perhaps extreme supporters on the left.

"Only" 7%? This makes it sound like a 7% shift is trivial. That is a big shift.

It definitely matters because it's a swing vote shift. 70% to 80% of all voters are the lower IQ sheep that will vote for any and all candidates put forth by their party of choice every election. It's the 20% to 30% of independent/uncommitted/swing voters that matter and 7% is a large chunk of those folks.

I doubt it is as high as 7%. Most people had their minds made up.

All of this ignores GenZ. Many of whom turned 18 after 2020. To those of us living with them (or not while they’re in college, many in swing states) it looks like they’ve been forgotten.

Do you remember the footage of college students lined up to vote during the mid term elections? They know what’s at stake and I doubt they will sit this one out.

Yes, I do. My kid waited in line for 5 hours to vote in a swing state. I’m not sure that will happen this year. If you’re around GenZ you know what they’re saying. It’s not good. I don’t blame them.

Relax. As long as Biden does the right thing by stepping away from his pursuit for a second term, a majority of swing voters of all ages will be willing to do what is necessary to keep Trump from winning in November. I think Biden will do the right thing. If he doesn't, your fears are warranted.

Is Biden the best candidate. No. but don’t underestimate the people that will vote blue no matter what.

Yes, the careless sheep that vote red and blue no matter what will continue to exist. This election, like most, will be decided by swing voters in swing states and all those voters are looking for is a normal candidate to save them from the Trump/Biden mess.

The parties need a reckoning, but not when Trump is on the ballot with a new immunity blessing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Voting for him, or whoever the dem nominee is, no matter what.

That's intelligent.

As intelligent as MAGAs devoted to a convicted rapist and felon.

Agreed and I can't believe this is the choice we have. But I will vote for whoever is on the D ticket.

Let's hope Biden isn't on the D ticket so that enough people join you to defeat Trump in November. Is a 50 year egomaniac politician capable of doing the right thing in this circumstance? We'll find out. I think Biden has the decency in him.

Do we even know if another candidate would fare better against Trump? I want data. LOL

Look where this poll came from. That’s like getting your news from the National Enquirer. Hard pass.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:...about whether Biden is cognitively capable of being president.

65% saw him as unfit for office prior to the debate, and that only went up to 72%

https://mol.im/a/13585619

Notwithstanding this, the race is still tight, meaning that a sizable percentage of people (~20%) are okay voting for someone they view as cognitively unfit to lead the free world.

This is interesting because I got the impression from DCUM that there was widespread ignorance about Biden’s... let's call it affect. DCUM has consistently expressed a belief that Biden is spry and mentally agile, particularly when compared to his opponent Trump. While some DCUMers have since acknowledged that they ignored the signs, many are committed to a belief that either Biden is okay, or that his cognitive health is irrelevant to his job performance. By the numbers, this means DCUM is basically inhabited by among the most committed and perhaps extreme supporters on the left.

"Only" 7%? This makes it sound like a 7% shift is trivial. That is a big shift.

It definitely matters because it's a swing vote shift. 70% to 80% of all voters are the lower IQ sheep that will vote for any and all candidates put forth by their party of choice every election. It's the 20% to 30% of independent/uncommitted/swing voters that matter and 7% is a large chunk of those folks.

I doubt it is as high as 7%. Most people had their minds made up.

All of this ignores GenZ. Many of whom turned 18 after 2020. To those of us living with them (or not while they’re in college, many in swing states) it looks like they’ve been forgotten.

Do you remember the footage of college students lined up to vote during the mid term elections? They know what’s at stake and I doubt they will sit this one out.

Yes, I do. My kid waited in line for 5 hours to vote in a swing state. I’m not sure that will happen this year. If you’re around GenZ you know what they’re saying. It’s not good. I don’t blame them.

Relax. As long as Biden does the right thing by stepping away from his pursuit for a second term, a majority of swing voters of all ages will be willing to do what is necessary to keep Trump from winning in November. I think Biden will do the right thing. If he doesn't, your fears are warranted.

Is Biden the best candidate. No. but don’t underestimate the people that will vote blue no matter what.

Yes, the careless sheep that vote red and blue no matter what will continue to exist. This election, like most, will be decided by swing voters in swing states and all those voters are looking for is a normal candidate to save them from the Trump/Biden mess.

Wow, way to talk down to people who vote Democratic. I have looked at my options and concluded that the GOP offers nothing for the betterment of anyone or anything. Until that changes, why the hell would I vote for a Republican?

You and I aren't the careless sheep. It sounds like you take the time to find out who and what you're voting for before going to the polls. Many people don't. They live in red or blue bubbles and all they know to do is vote for the person with an R or D next to their name no matter what. Those people exist; trust me!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:...about whether Biden is cognitively capable of being president.

65% saw him as unfit for office prior to the debate, and that only went up to 72%

https://mol.im/a/13585619

Notwithstanding this, the race is still tight, meaning that a sizable percentage of people (~20%) are okay voting for someone they view as cognitively unfit to lead the free world.

This is interesting because I got the impression from DCUM that there was widespread ignorance about Biden’s... let's call it affect. DCUM has consistently expressed a belief that Biden is spry and mentally agile, particularly when compared to his opponent Trump. While some DCUMers have since acknowledged that they ignored the signs, many are committed to a belief that either Biden is okay, or that his cognitive health is irrelevant to his job performance. By the numbers, this means DCUM is basically inhabited by among the most committed and perhaps extreme supporters on the left.

"Only" 7%? This makes it sound like a 7% shift is trivial. That is a big shift.

It definitely matters because it's a swing vote shift. 70% to 80% of all voters are the lower IQ sheep that will vote for any and all candidates put forth by their party of choice every election. It's the 20% to 30% of independent/uncommitted/swing voters that matter and 7% is a large chunk of those folks.

I doubt it is as high as 7%. Most people had their minds made up.

All of this ignores GenZ. Many of whom turned 18 after 2020. To those of us living with them (or not while they’re in college, many in swing states) it looks like they’ve been forgotten.

Do you remember the footage of college students lined up to vote during the mid term elections? They know what’s at stake and I doubt they will sit this one out.

Yes, I do. My kid waited in line for 5 hours to vote in a swing state. I’m not sure that will happen this year. If you’re around GenZ you know what they’re saying. It’s not good. I don’t blame them.

Relax. As long as Biden does the right thing by stepping away from his pursuit for a second term, a majority of swing voters of all ages will be willing to do what is necessary to keep Trump from winning in November. I think Biden will do the right thing. If he doesn't, your fears are warranted.

Is Biden the best candidate. No. but don’t underestimate the people that will vote blue no matter what.

That's the 37% of the voters who still approve of Biden. Not enough.