In-laws are broke, DH has offered to help

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, just chiming in as another person with in-laws whose expensive lifestyle and tastes don’t match their means.

I’m extremely grateful that my husband has been clear with them (and with his siblings) that we won’t be the financial backstop.

(Astonishing amounts of money have flowed through their hands, and they continue to make housing decisions that are wildly irresponsible, while ignoring our advice - which they ask for - about how to get to a better place.)

So how does this play out? Would love to know their ages along with their expensive tastes and estimated means. Wondering if we are in for this.

Ages: mid 70s
Means: $1Mish in total retirement savings, plus SS and a pension that throws off about $3k/month
Expensive taste: Bought a condo with carrying costs of $5,500/month in their mid 60s, seemingly unaware of the implications of that fixed expense. Want to spend $10k+/year on travel. Could cut housing costs in half pretty easily, but emotionally aren’t willing to do so.

They are obviously not destitute, but the reserve nest egg is already being spent down and they won’t be able to afford assisted living or other situation to support more extensive care. Not sure how it will ultimately play out - family history of dementia plus longevity means it could be tough. Though the flip side is that even with lower housing costs, they’d probably still struggle with late in life care costs. It’s not great.

Is OP the last prior poster? If they have about 6k-8k/month in retirement pre tax what were they thinking? Were they retired when they bought it? There are condos in NYC for example where a 20% down on a 300k list have HOA of about 2500.

The DH paying their mortgage is just crazy. The OP wrote they are not emotionally ready to sell and these people are so selfish I'm astounded. These grifters are taking the money their own son + DIL would otherwise use as savings for a down payment and college funds. Luxury home and vacations.

[Anonymous]

Nope. Option is to live with you and pay you rent plus splitting bills, or they move to a cheaper place they can actually afford.

[Anonymous]

Basically, if you pay for their living expenses, they need to be living in a house you have purchased so you and your kids will get something out of it in the end, not just subsidizing their luxury travel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, just chiming in as another person with in-laws whose expensive lifestyle and tastes don’t match their means.

I’m extremely grateful that my husband has been clear with them (and with his siblings) that we won’t be the financial backstop.

(Astonishing amounts of money have flowed through their hands, and they continue to make housing decisions that are wildly irresponsible, while ignoring our advice - which they ask for - about how to get to a better place.)

So how does this play out? Would love to know their ages along with their expensive tastes and estimated means. Wondering if we are in for this.

Ages: mid 70s
Means: $1Mish in total retirement savings, plus SS and a pension that throws off about $3k/month
Expensive taste: Bought a condo with carrying costs of $5,500/month in their mid 60s, seemingly unaware of the implications of that fixed expense. Want to spend $10k+/year on travel. Could cut housing costs in half pretty easily, but emotionally aren’t willing to do so.

They are obviously not destitute, but the reserve nest egg is already being spent down and they won’t be able to afford assisted living or other situation to support more extensive care. Not sure how it will ultimately play out - family history of dementia plus longevity means it could be tough. Though the flip side is that even with lower housing costs, they’d probably still struggle with late in life care costs. It’s not great.

OP, thanks for sharing.

That condo decision is costly, very costly. Let's say they've been in it 10 years x 12 months x $5,500 = $660,000! Not knowing any other details about mortgage, etc, they need to get out of there.

Spread sheet this for your DH. Also show him current monthly LTC costs for nursing homes in his parents' community. Best thing would be is to get them into a smaller unit they own outright and plan on their applying for Medicaid at some point. Your DH will not be inheriting anything at this rate, so he should not be going into the hole if he will not be able to recover any of these expenses.

My guess this is going to be hard for your DH to hear. And FWIW, I think he should be supportive of his parents but not when they are living in ways that are not supportive of him and his family and their futures.

GL!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This would be a marital dealbreaker for me. I’m not giving up my financial future for my inlaws or my own parents. Downsizing is not a reason to subsidize them. Now, keeping them from being homeless — that I would support. But that doesn’t sound like what is happening.

It is totally fair for you to push back on this.

same. Me or the $ to parents.

[Anonymous]

There is so much discussion on DCUM on how the younger generation has an obligation to parents, "they raised you," "they did without so you could succeed," "how can you be cruel to someone who loves you," etc.

Fair enough. That makes sense -- and it works -- when the parents aren't spendthrift people who have been and are continuing to spend money like they're throwing into a hole in the ground.

The point of all the systems of generational responsibilities was supposed to be to improve the resources of the family over time. People scrimped and saved, and then used those resources to help their children get a better start. The children were then supposed to do well and spend part of the resources they had to take care of their parents.

But they are also supposed to be scrimping and saving, and then using those resources to help their children get a better start.

Grandparents living high on the hog and willing to drain the college savings of their grandchildren was never part of the deal.

[Anonymous]

Reverse mortgage?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Basically, if you pay for their living expenses, they need to be living in a house you have purchased so you and your kids will get something out of it in the end, not just subsidizing their luxury travel.

This is I think the right answer. A little help is fine. But if it gets major you should own and get upside.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It must be a cultural thing. As an Asian male, I pay off my parents' mortgage and set aside half of my net worth, $500K, in a separate account for them before getting married. I earn $500K per year, and my DW makes $100K. If she were to tell me that I am not allowed to help my parents, that would not sit well with me. I wouldn't be where I am today without my parents.

Similarly, I treat my DH's parents exactly the same way I treat mine. If they need their mortgage paid off, I would be glad to do it.

You're a troll. I don't know of any Asian who does this. I am Japanese. In my culture, respect for elders is paramount. But no one is setting aside half their fortunes for their parents. My father helped pay for his parents expenses at their nursing homes, I will help pay for my parents' expenses when they reach a certain level of dependence and if their funds are insufficient. This is reasonable, because it's hard to plan for inflation and rising costs of eldercare, for any generation. But normal living and housing expenses while they're still active? I know of NO Asian who does this, either of my parents' generation, or mine. I know Japanese, Korean, Malaysian and Indian families.

Asian American here. PP must have gotten married late and he chose to take care of his parents before getting married.

I am a child of immigrants. DH is a child of immigrants. In our circles, many adult children help out their parents financially. We fully support my parents and we supplement my in laws. We do this because we have a seven figure income and can afford to do so. We paid off both my parents and my in law’s houses. We used to give them money for the mortgage. We have the deed for my parents’ house. MIL lives in a paid off house, gets social security and pension. DH and his brother give her money for allowance. They recently bought her a car and split the costs. Both Dh and BIL do well financially.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It must be a cultural thing. As an Asian male, I pay off my parents' mortgage and set aside half of my net worth, $500K, in a separate account for them before getting married. I earn $500K per year, and my DW makes $100K. If she were to tell me that I am not allowed to help my parents, that would not sit well with me. I wouldn't be where I am today without my parents.

Similarly, I treat my DH's parents exactly the same way I treat mine. If they need their mortgage paid off, I would be glad to do it.

You're a troll. I don't know of any Asian who does this. I am Japanese. In my culture, respect for elders is paramount. But no one is setting aside half their fortunes for their parents. My father helped pay for his parents expenses at their nursing homes, I will help pay for my parents' expenses when they reach a certain level of dependence and if their funds are insufficient. This is reasonable, because it's hard to plan for inflation and rising costs of eldercare, for any generation. But normal living and housing expenses while they're still active? I know of NO Asian who does this, either of my parents' generation, or mine. I know Japanese, Korean, Malaysian and Indian families.

Asian American here. PP must have gotten married late and he chose to take care of his parents before getting married.

I am a child of immigrants. DH is a child of immigrants. In our circles, many adult children help out their parents financially. We fully support my parents and we supplement my in laws. We do this because we have a seven figure income.. We have the deed for my parents’ house. MIL lives in a paid off house...

Nice on the above and such kindness to parents/inlaws is not limited to Asian Americans. The difference is the OP+DH do not have that level of income, are renters by default since they don't have cash for a downpayment, and supporting the parents lifestyle means they can't save for a downpayment or college.

[Anonymous]

Old people want to age in place and stay in their houses and that's fair.

What's not fair is when they were young people who bought a luxury house on credit they can't afford, and tryd to scam their kid to pay for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Old people want to age in place and stay in their houses and that's fair.

What's not fair is when they were young people who bought a luxury house on credit they can't afford, and tryd to scam their kid to pay for it.

I don’t think they are scamming kids.

My dad can no longer care for himself. He doesn’t want to go to a nursing home and wants to stay home. My elderly mom, brother and 2 home aids take care of him at home. He is not scamming anyone. He wants to die at home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Old people want to age in place and stay in their houses and that's fair.

What's not fair is when they were young people who bought a luxury house on credit they can't afford, and tryd to scam their kid to pay for it.

I don’t think they are scamming kids.

My dad can no longer care for himself. He doesn’t want to go to a nursing home and wants to stay home. My elderly mom, brother and 2 home aids take care of him at home. He is not scamming anyone. He wants to die at home.

He is scamming others if he isn't paying for it himself.

Taking food from his grandchildrens mouths to pay for this is scamming them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Old people want to age in place and stay in their houses and that's fair.

What's not fair is when they were young people who bought a luxury house on credit they can't afford, and tryd to scam their kid to pay for it.

I don’t think they are scamming kids.

My dad can no longer care for himself. He doesn’t want to go to a nursing home and wants to stay home. My elderly mom, brother and 2 home aids take care of him at home. He is not scamming anyone. He wants to die at home.

He is scamming others if he isn't paying for it himself.

Taking food from his grandchildrens mouths to pay for this is scamming them.

I think it teaches family values. My children have watched me care for my parents. We have given up family vacations to visit my parents. We have visited both my mom and dad in the hospital and rehab center and when they return home.

I hope that my children will visit me and take care of me when I’m old.

I’m alswayz surprised how selfish and disloyal people can be towards their family. Of course there are exceptions if there was abuse but these are the people who gave you life and raised you.

[Anonymous]

The financial gift my parents gave me was breaking the cycle. They are the sandwich generation in our family. They both grew up lower middle class and were completely on their own at 18. Still, they managed to pay for my siblings and me to go to college and professional/grad school, they supported each of their parents for a long time, and they have their own retirement adequately funded. I am very aware of the hard work and sacrifices they made to set up my generation for an easier life, and I’ve modeled my own life after them and saved aggressively for my retirement and the kids’ college.

I also can also relate to OP because DH is sandwiched in his family to provide for his parents, save for his own retirement and (help me) provide for our kids. It is a HUGE source of contention. I have to battle him over how to prioritize spending/saving MY income (him asking me to save less for the kids’ college or retirement, effectively so he can give more to his parents). It’s just terrible to ask/expect your children to provide for you in your old age as it affects them, their spouse and their children.

There is not an easy answer, but if OP works, then just carveout savings for things like a house down payment, college and retirement, and figure out how to make the rest work net of those priorities.