PG County: Two Children Killed While Walking to Riverdale Elementary

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A five year old girl and a ten year old boy. An adult was also hit but his injuries were not life threatening. Female van driver. How do you hit three people IN a crosswalk? Unfathomable.

Were they related?

[Anonymous]

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We walk to/from school and people will NOT stop to let us cross. Drivers 100% see us, start to slow and then change their minds because apparently, 45 seconds is too insurmountable for their day. Its a T-intersection and only the one road has a stop sign but all directions should have a stop sign with flashing pedestrian lights and cameras for when people dont stop. I wish they would make pedestrian signs that flashed and when hit by a pedestrian turned all lights to STOP signs.

PG county has even more of a burden to increase pedestrian safety BECAUSE they wont provide busing for students that live close. I think its 1.5 mile radius for our local elementary. We have no crossing guard at the intersection we cross but the annex 1/2mile up the same street has one for HS students.

Isn't it dangerous for both cars and pedestrians if cars are stopping in the middle of a road? Seems like the car would get rear ended and the pedestrians still hit.

We have a road like this near our house where people are just jaywalking to school daily and it's dangerous for everyone. IMO the pedestrians should either walk to the light and cross or wait until cars go past to cross.

I agree that a 3 way stop would be best. Or a crossing guard. Without a crossing guard, cars don't always know to stop (we're in a multicultural area and barely anyone knows specific state rules on driving. They just automatically give people drivers licenses.)

Yes, it's dangerous for cars. No, it's not dangerous for the people in the cars.

I don't know where you live, but probably many of the "jaywalking" people are crossing at intersections, which means they are crossing in a crosswalk and have the right of way, and drivers are supposed to stop.

No, this is not correct, and it makes me so mad that so many people don't understand this. If the cars do not have a stop light/sign or flashing pedestrian crossing lights, THEY DO NOT HAVE TO STOP for pedestrians *waiting* to cross (yes, even at a marked crosswalk!). They have to stop for people *already* in the crosswalk, but as a PP mentioned, it is actually dangerous to stop in the middle of the road otherwise. Pedestrians are supposed to wait until the road is clear before they *start* crossing. It sucks when a busy intersection is never clear, but that's cause to request a pedestrian crossing light or stop sign or some other traffic flow alteration. Drivers still have a duty of care to avoid accidents whenever possible, even if they technically have right of way - but in this case, they do in fact still have right of way.

Pedestrians are not allowed to step into the crosswalk unless drivers can stop. And drivers don't have to stop unless the pedestrians are in the crosswalk. It's a Catch-22 for pedestrians, don't you think?

Alternatively: when you're driving, stop for pedestrians.

This is why crossswalks are a bad idea. And so many pedestrians just run out.

so people should fly across the street?

They should go to a light or a stop sign. There are lights every 1/4 mile basically.

The driver was absolutely at fault, but this is going to keep happening until we fix road design.

You might think people should have to walk 1/4 mile out of their way just to cross the street, but the reality is that people are not going to do that. You know it, I know it, the road designers know it, everyone knows it.

Also, these kids were killed at an intersection, with a four-way stop, next to their school. So your opinions about what pedestrians should do are irrelevant here anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I thought pedestrians in crosswalks have the right of way at intersections without a light?

Yes, they do. Also, there are crosswalks at every intersection, even where there isn't any paint. The law treats crosswalks with paint and crosswalks without paint exactly the same, in terms of right of way.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Why are kids crossing a street without a crossing guard?

You know the majority of schools don’t have a crossing guard right?
Crossing guards are for the privileged few.

There are usually two crossing guards. One for that intersection and one for another nearby.

Not per a previous post by a parent at this school. Not recently at least.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought pedestrians in crosswalks have the right of way at intersections without a light?

Yes, they do. Also, there are crosswalks at every intersection, even where there isn't any paint. The law treats crosswalks with paint and crosswalks without paint exactly the same, in terms of right of way.

Was this an intersection with a crosswalk but without any stop sign or light? Crosswalks without stop signs/lights are such a disaster, and we have one in our neighborhood where DC refused to put a stop sign even though it's to cross to the RFK sports fields and playgrounds (and it took years for them to even bother to put in a crosswalk at all!)

[Anonymous]

Not only is there a stop sign there, the stop signs in that area have lit borders that flash. I don’t think some of you understand that this is a small intersection in a residential area right in front of the school. I cannot fathom how someone would be going fast enough and not see three people in the crosswalk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not only is there a stop sign there, the stop signs in that area have lit borders that flash. I don’t think some of you understand that this is a small intersection in a residential area right in front of the school. I cannot fathom how someone would be going fast enough and not see three people in the crosswalk.

Sounds like the driver was making a left hand turn, and didn't look. Looking at oncoming traffic, but not at the crosswalk to the left.

[Anonymous]

Happened at an intersection with a four way stop. The police are still investigating what happened.

https://pgpolice.blogspot.com/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not only is there a stop sign there, the stop signs in that area have lit borders that flash. I don’t think some of you understand that this is a small intersection in a residential area right in front of the school. I cannot fathom how someone would be going fast enough and not see three people in the crosswalk.

I don't think they have to be going that fast if it's a large van (as it appears to have been?), if it's the kind that you can barely see an adult, let alone a child, over the hood. Turning left, they may have been accelerating. Also wondering if cars were parked to the stop sign with parents and drop off - do they have those posts that prevent people from parking before the stop sign where crossing visibility is necessary, the way there is at some intersections in DC? Remembering Allie Hart in DC who was hit by a van that was proceeding from a stop, and literally couldn't see that she was right in front of it.

[Anonymous]

If this is a "hit the gas instead of the break" situation, a crossing guard would not have prevented it. The adult victim could have been the crossing guard for all we know.

My kid goes to high school less than two miles away from this elementary school and kids need to cross a 4 lane divided road. There are guards in the morning (who do a fantastic job)but they leave almost immediately after school starts so if kids are a little bit late they are SOL. This is a problem for kids who take WMATA buses to school because they aren't always on time.

I'm guessing that filling these positions isn't easy and that they need to do some risk assessment and determine which schools need a limited number of guards the most.

This is driver education issue.

[Anonymous]

Here is why the kids would have been killed and the adult not.

America needs to regulate the size of cars. Hoods are unnecessarily large because of the American obsession of "bigger is better". Military grade tanks actually have better visibility of a child than US SUVs.



https://carbuzz.com/news/the-abrams-m1-tank-has-better-visibility-than-a-ford-super-duty

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not only is there a stop sign there, the stop signs in that area have lit borders that flash. I don’t think some of you understand that this is a small intersection in a residential area right in front of the school. I cannot fathom how someone would be going fast enough and not see three people in the crosswalk.

100%. There is no way that van could have been going super fast, especially with the amount of traffic in that area at drop off/pick up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not only is there a stop sign there, the stop signs in that area have lit borders that flash. I don’t think some of you understand that this is a small intersection in a residential area right in front of the school. I cannot fathom how someone would be going fast enough and not see three people in the crosswalk.

100%. There is no way that van could have been going super fast, especially with the amount of traffic in that area at drop off/pick up.

Unfortunately, a large van doesn't have to be going super fast to kill a child.

[Anonymous]

Piecing together all of the various news stories this is the picture I have in my head.

A van that was likely a before/after care provider or transportation person turned off of East West Highway and onto Taylor Road which is a couple of short blocks from where this happened. There is a ton of traffic right there and it usually is backed up from all the other parents dropping off/picking up. The driver turned onto Riverdale Road and would have taken the next left to drop the kids off at the school. They were at the Taylor Road and Riverdale Road intersection and the female driver inadvertently hit the gas instead of the brake. Because the van is so high and heavy, it caused fatal injury.

The end result is the same, two children, Sky Sosa and Shalom Mbah lost their life in a tragic accident. I hope that someone sets up a Go Fund Me for their parents or a memorial fund and that all the posters in this thread donate to it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought pedestrians in crosswalks have the right of way at intersections without a light?

Yes, they do. Also, there are crosswalks at every intersection, even where there isn't any paint. The law treats crosswalks with paint and crosswalks without paint exactly the same, in terms of right of way.

But they don’t have the right to step into the street any time they want.

Drivers can’t read your mind.