Lack of independent play is creating mental health crisis among kids today -- and overprotective parenting is to blame

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I agree with this - but I think the problem is both overbearing parents AND parents constantly turning to screen time

Parents are turning to screen time because it’s impossible to do the adult life stuff and be your kids playmate. But you can’t just send them out, even though that’s what’s best for them.

It’s all interrelated

We had no cable tv, and my parents did "adult stuff" while we played by ourselves. My parents never played with us. That's a more recent thing, and I think part of the problem. Parents feel like they *have* to play with their kids. Kids won't find other kids to play with if mommy and daddy play with them all the time, or they have structured activities everyday. It becomes a vicious circle.

Just back off and let your kids figure it out. I'm not saying never play with your kids, but other kids should be their main source of playmates, not the parents or activities.

This is a situation where talking about "parents" as a monolith just doesn't work. And also why a tendency to view the past nostalgically, and the present critically, can lead you astray.

It's true that parents today are more likely to feel like they "have" to play with their kids. But why is that? In my case, it's because I was raised by people who actively disliked their children, and that had a negative impact on me both as a kid and as an adult. So I do feel I have an obligation to spend time with my kids, get to know them, take an interest in what they are interested in. But it's not driven by some vague cultural notion or just being a martyr. Is based on my own experience and a recognition that ignoring your kids and telling them, always, to please leave mommy and daddy alone, might have a negative impact on their psyche. I don't want my kids to have to spend two decades in therapy, as I have, building the scaffolding of a sense of self worth, because I am too busy or disinterested to play with them. So yes, I sometimes force myself to play with my kids even when I'm not really in the mood.

Now, I know that not all parents had my experience as a child. But I also no that I am nowhere near alone in it. My parents were the way they were for a few reasons, and they are common: (1) they were raised by Greatest Generation parents who were also alcoholics with untreated mental illness, including PTSD from the war/depression, and (2) they had kids young and out of obligation, and did not really view not having kids as an option. This is an extremely common combination of factors for people who had kids in the 1970s and 80s, and it often resulted in the kind of parental neglect I experienced, which means that a lot of people parenting today are working to correct that pattern with their own kids.

Yes people are sometimes overzealous, and I think parents could stand to be told, more often, "It's okay to take breaks from your kids, and it's okay to let your kids figure stuff out." But parents aren't playing with their kids or focusing on their kids because they are control freaks or because they are subscribing to some crackpot parenting technique they learned on Tik Tok. Most of the time parents are spending time with their kids in an effort to undo generational trauma. That's actually good! Why don't we talk more about how that's actually good?

whoaw.. you have issues that have nothing to do with your kids. You should've taken care of that before you had kids.

If I tell my kids to go play rather than expect me to play with them all the time that doesn't mean I don't love my kids. I'm sorry about your childhood, but you are projecting.

If you actually read my comment, you'd see I'm explicitly not projecting -- my point is that while not everyone has this background, it's a lot more common than people realize and helps to account for the shift in parenting approaches from one generation to the next.

And thanks, I absolutely did deal with my issues before I had kids and I tell my kids to go play without me all the time. However, I understand that when parents fail to do this, it's generally not because they are crap parents or idiots or something, or even that they are over protective. They are doing it for a reason, and if you understand the reason, you can better understand the problem. But people don't want to understand the problem.

You read my post and thought "whoa, ick, family trauma -- please keep that to yourself." Well guess what, that family trauma of alcoholic grandparents and neglectful parents (all kind of hidden under the table since everyone involved had a home and food and an education) is extremely common in the US. It's a generational pattern that results from large scale events like wars and major immigration waves, as well as smaller scale trends like drinking habits and access to mental healthcare.

You look at me and think "oh, you're a one off, we're talking about something else." But this is exactly what you are talking about. It's just uncomfortable so you'd rather yell at parents about screen time or complain that kids do too many after-school activities. Just blind.

I'm the PP. I grew up as a latchkey kid to immigrant parents. But, that "trauma" doesn't make me think I have to entertain my kids.

There is value in letting kids play by themselves or figure out how to entertain themselves; of letting them find neighborhood kids to play with. There is value in letting them be bored once in a while.

You have gone completely the opposite way of your parents. Neither extreme is good parenting. My parents weren't perfect parents, believe me. But, that doesn't mean I should do everything opposite that they did. My mother once said to me that being a parent must be so much harder today even with modern conveniences because today's parents are expected to cater to their children's every wants and needs and play with them. And she is right. We are doing this to ourselves.

Well of course not, you haven't described a trauma. Simply having parents who are immigrants is not a form of trauma. Being latchkey kid in the 80s or 90s wasn't a trauma either -- it was common and unless there was some deeper neglect involved (your parents weren't providing food for you to eat when you were home alone, you were forced to care for much younger siblings instead of doing homework or playing on your own, etc.), it's not trauma. So I can see why you put that in scare quotes because you didn't experience trauma.

I think a lot of people raised by immigrants mistakenly believe that (1) their life was harder because of their parents immigrant status -- in many instances, immigrants are the most organized and with it people because it takes high functioning to move to another country and make a go of it, and (2) that all white Americans are like the white people you see on TV sitcoms with nice houses and easy problems that are solved with consumer choices and perfectly communication.

You can sneer all you want, but the truth is that a lot of Americans grew up with actual trauma -- abusive, emotionally immature, parents or guardians and truly neglected childhood. You are blind to it because of our cultural narratives about race and immigration in the US.

+1 So tired of the "my parents were immigrants" whiners who most likely grew up rich.

I'm so tired of how "real" Americans think they know about immigrants and their lives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't even think that kids even get the concept if free play anymore. The holidays are here, dh has a large family. 10 nieces and nephew all between the ages of 4-13. I swear when we gather for holidays and things that they don't know what to do or how to entertain themselves anymore. They just wander around looking for adults to find them something to do. It's sad really, hanging with my cousins was so great growing up.

I had a ton of cousins. The reason we all played together was because I came up with tons and tons of games for us to play (elaborate ones, not like pulling out a board game) and they were all willing to play. When I missed a holiday, my cousins actually didn’t know how to organize The Games and they moped around.

Don’t underestimate the value of planners. Some kids can just plan and organize everything for others and others like to just follow along in the play. Kids are just as good now at playing, they just aren’t allowed to be outside for fear of people calling the cops.

[Anonymous]

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Most everyone who is replying here realizes that this would be beneficial for their child yet is coming up with excuses as to why they can't or won't do it. Kinda sad, really.

The first step to making this happen here is to drastically reduce screen time. That isn't easy but it then forces their hand. For our children, they will play some inside but there is only so much of that they will do until they go outside to play. Access to screens just short-circuits this dynamic. Also, we make regular visits to some of the bigger playground parks - there are always kids and they love these trips. Our kids are all under 12 and we've been doing this their whole lives so YMMV.

Do you work?

Yes, I do. Spouse works as well and we also own a small business.

What do you do that you don't have any time to take your kids to a playground or let them play outside?

When do you you have time to take kids to the park if you work? Are you part time?

I work full-time. Spouse works 3 10 hour days and the business is some weekends, mostly. The kids play outside after school and we go to a playground a couple or few times a week, some of those being on weekends. We are no screens Sunday evening until Friday evening("movie night") but we've done this since day one. If you are trying to start this from scratch w/ a 7-12 yo, it's going to be harder.

At the end of the day, you have time for that which you give priority to make time for. In addition to sports/EC's we've made this a priority so the time is there.

Right this afternoon, at this very moment, they decided they wanted to rake leaves in the front yard so they'd have a pile to jump in so that's today's spontaneous unstructured play. If there was a screen as an option, that would never happen.

DP. I work full-time (from home 4 out of 5 days a week) from 7:30 to 3:30. I'm available to my kids pretty much every afternoon. The previous PP really can't conceive that working parents can find time to take their kids to the playground?? YIKES!

Can you not conceive that many if not most parents who both work full-time simply don’t have time to get to the playground on a weekday afternoon?

And saying working parents do not have the right priorities is more than a little condescending.

I'm not the PP who made the comment about right priorities. I get that if both parents aren't walking in the door until 6, then, yeah, weekday playground isn't happening. But a lot of households have dual working parents and yet schedules that look differently than that (from flexing, to WFH, to just atypical hours, etc.) The earlier PP seemed to think that only a SAH parent could make it to the playground.

Where the earlier PP asked a simple Q, the other PP turned it around to ask what the PP does that they can’t make time to take their kids to the playground. That PP seems to think that only parents who truly care about their kids can make it to the playground. Yikes!

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't even think that kids even get the concept if free play anymore. The holidays are here, dh has a large family. 10 nieces and nephew all between the ages of 4-13. I swear when we gather for holidays and things that they don't know what to do or how to entertain themselves anymore. They just wander around looking for adults to find them something to do. It's sad really, hanging with my cousins was so great growing up.

This definitely isn’t universal… there are 10 grandkids on my side, ages 2-14 (my kids & their cousins). At gatherings, they run around outside, play board games together, play hide & seek, just talk, etc. Usually in smaller groups than 10, but they definitely play independently (except the 2 yo still needs an adult around of course).

They can do that because they have in built playmates at gatherings. Do they play outside without any planning when at home?

Yes. My younger kid plays outside all the time (likes to imagine things when playing alone), and when they are both home, they play together. For example, raking up a leaf pile & jumping in it the past couple of days. But they aren’t wandering the neighborhood and are just playing with siblings, so for many that wouldn’t count.

PP was describing cousins not playing together— that’s why I responded the way I did originally.

[Anonymous]

Independence doesn't just have to happen at the school aged level, if you really can't let your kids be independent.

You get a second chance in adolescence, especially once they are driving. Parents are nervous to let their teens loose on the world (monitoring their phones and driving location) but the freedom kids have at 16, 17 to drive around and hang out with their friends is a real opportunity to let them learn and explore while parents are still close enough to help out in an emergency.

I sent my son and daughter off on road trips (with friends) at 16 17 and 18 with trepidation (what?? unsupervised??!) but it worked out great, and now as young adults they have a lot of confidence in their ability to be away from home and travel solo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Independence doesn't just have to happen at the school aged level, if you really can't let your kids be independent.

You get a second chance in adolescence, especially once they are driving. Parents are nervous to let their teens loose on the world (monitoring their phones and driving location) but the freedom kids have at 16, 17 to drive around and hang out with their friends is a real opportunity to let them learn and explore while parents are still close enough to help out in an emergency.

I sent my son and daughter off on road trips (with friends) at 16 17 and 18 with trepidation (what?? unsupervised??!) but it worked out great, and now as young adults they have a lot of confidence in their ability to be away from home and travel solo.

And I know that you parents of school aged kids will react to my comments about 16 year olds and think "Oh sure, but 16 is practically grown up!" but I assure you that most parents today do not give their teens very much freedom at all. I remember a discussion recently about whether it was OK for high school seniors to do an alumni interview in a college alumni's house alone (no chaperone) and most people were HORRIFIED that parents would allow such a thing to happen. a 30 minute interview, with the parents sitting in the car, right outside the person's house, waiting for the interview to be over. The girl was 18 years old. "You never know what could happen!!" the parents protested! "Unsafe! She could be molested!" Parents treat their kids like helpless babies and then wonder why they can't function in college away from home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't even think that kids even get the concept if free play anymore. The holidays are here, dh has a large family. 10 nieces and nephew all between the ages of 4-13. I swear when we gather for holidays and things that they don't know what to do or how to entertain themselves anymore. They just wander around looking for adults to find them something to do. It's sad really, hanging with my cousins was so great growing up.

This definitely isn’t universal… there are 10 grandkids on my side, ages 2-14 (my kids & their cousins). At gatherings, they run around outside, play board games together, play hide & seek, just talk, etc. Usually in smaller groups than 10, but they definitely play independently (except the 2 yo still needs an adult around of course).

They can do that because they have in built playmates at gatherings. Do they play outside without any planning when at home?

Yes. My younger kid plays outside all the time (likes to imagine things when playing alone), and when they are both home, they play together. For example, raking up a leaf pile & jumping in it the past couple of days. But they aren’t wandering the neighborhood and are just playing with siblings, so for many that wouldn’t count.

PP was describing cousins not playing together— that’s why I responded the way I did originally.

Everyone is over focused on this bit about wandering the neighborhood. The interviewee explained that lack of independent play with other peers negatively impacts mental health because kids don't learn how deal with peers, solve problems, stand up to minor bullying, and then they feel out of control of their lives generally and like victims. He then suggests that parents in the neighborhood agree that on Friday they send their kids out to play at the same time, and one adult be available nearby. Ummmmmm, he literally just described a playdate. What matters here is that you let your kids play with other kids without you (the adults) hovering and refereeing. It doesn't have to take the form of wandering the neighborhood. There are so many ways to facilitate this. The cousin gathering is not inferior to the neighborhood wandering in terms of an opportunity for kids to interact independently with peers (so long as the adults just butt out). And, honestly, most aftercares I know even fit the bill.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't even think that kids even get the concept if free play anymore. The holidays are here, dh has a large family. 10 nieces and nephew all between the ages of 4-13. I swear when we gather for holidays and things that they don't know what to do or how to entertain themselves anymore. They just wander around looking for adults to find them something to do. It's sad really, hanging with my cousins was so great growing up.

This definitely isn’t universal… there are 10 grandkids on my side, ages 2-14 (my kids & their cousins). At gatherings, they run around outside, play board games together, play hide & seek, just talk, etc. Usually in smaller groups than 10, but they definitely play independently (except the 2 yo still needs an adult around of course).

They can do that because they have in built playmates at gatherings. Do they play outside without any planning when at home?

Yes. My younger kid plays outside all the time (likes to imagine things when playing alone), and when they are both home, they play together. For example, raking up a leaf pile & jumping in it the past couple of days. But they aren’t wandering the neighborhood and are just playing with siblings, so for many that wouldn’t count.

PP was describing cousins not playing together— that’s why I responded the way I did originally.

Everyone is over focused on this bit about wandering the neighborhood. The interviewee explained that lack of independent play with other peers negatively impacts mental health because kids don't learn how deal with peers, solve problems, stand up to minor bullying, and then they feel out of control of their lives generally and like victims. He then suggests that parents in the neighborhood agree that on Friday they send their kids out to play at the same time, and one adult be available nearby. Ummmmmm, he literally just described a playdate. What matters here is that you let your kids play with other kids without you (the adults) hovering and refereeing. It doesn't have to take the form of wandering the neighborhood. There are so many ways to facilitate this. The cousin gathering is not inferior to the neighborhood wandering in terms of an opportunity for kids to interact independently with peers (so long as the adults just butt out). And, honestly, most aftercares I know even fit the bill.

Thanks for your reply. I agree. I SAH, but we often stay at the school playground after school for the kids to play & the parents to chat. The kids in aftercare come to the playground too, snd none of these kids have adults hovering over them. Yes, adults are nearby, but the kids are still playing independently, in my opinion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Most everyone who is replying here realizes that this would be beneficial for their child yet is coming up with excuses as to why they can't or won't do it. Kinda sad, really.

The first step to making this happen here is to drastically reduce screen time. That isn't easy but it then forces their hand. For our children, they will play some inside but there is only so much of that they will do until they go outside to play. Access to screens just short-circuits this dynamic. Also, we make regular visits to some of the bigger playground parks - there are always kids and they love these trips. Our kids are all under 12 and we've been doing this their whole lives so YMMV.

Do you work?

Yes, I do. Spouse works as well and we also own a small business.

What do you do that you don't have any time to take your kids to a playground or let them play outside?

When do you you have time to take kids to the park if you work? Are you part time?

I work full-time. Spouse works 3 10 hour days and the business is some weekends, mostly. The kids play outside after school and we go to a playground a couple or few times a week, some of those being on weekends. We are no screens Sunday evening until Friday evening("movie night") but we've done this since day one. If you are trying to start this from scratch w/ a 7-12 yo, it's going to be harder.

At the end of the day, you have time for that which you give priority to make time for. In addition to sports/EC's we've made this a priority so the time is there.

Right this afternoon, at this very moment, they decided they wanted to rake leaves in the front yard so they'd have a pile to jump in so that's today's spontaneous unstructured play. If there was a screen as an option, that would never happen.

So at that moment - 4:30pm - you were at home not working?

Yes, I was off work and picked up the kids. Like I said, we have prioritized this.

If you're not currently able to do this, it's because other things are a priority for you and this is not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Most everyone who is replying here realizes that this would be beneficial for their child yet is coming up with excuses as to why they can't or won't do it. Kinda sad, really.

The first step to making this happen here is to drastically reduce screen time. That isn't easy but it then forces their hand. For our children, they will play some inside but there is only so much of that they will do until they go outside to play. Access to screens just short-circuits this dynamic. Also, we make regular visits to some of the bigger playground parks - there are always kids and they love these trips. Our kids are all under 12 and we've been doing this their whole lives so YMMV.

Do you work?

Yes, I do. Spouse works as well and we also own a small business.

What do you do that you don't have any time to take your kids to a playground or let them play outside?

When do you you have time to take kids to the park if you work? Are you part time?

I work full-time. Spouse works 3 10 hour days and the business is some weekends, mostly. The kids play outside after school and we go to a playground a couple or few times a week, some of those being on weekends. We are no screens Sunday evening until Friday evening("movie night") but we've done this since day one. If you are trying to start this from scratch w/ a 7-12 yo, it's going to be harder.

At the end of the day, you have time for that which you give priority to make time for. In addition to sports/EC's we've made this a priority so the time is there.

Right this afternoon, at this very moment, they decided they wanted to rake leaves in the front yard so they'd have a pile to jump in so that's today's spontaneous unstructured play. If there was a screen as an option, that would never happen.

So at that moment - 4:30pm - you were at home not working?

Yes, I was off work and picked up the kids. Like I said, we have prioritized this.

If you're not currently able to do this, it's because other things are a priority for you and this is not.

NP here. I’m not home by 4:30 because paying my rent is a priority for me. I wish I could be home that early!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Most everyone who is replying here realizes that this would be beneficial for their child yet is coming up with excuses as to why they can't or won't do it. Kinda sad, really.

The first step to making this happen here is to drastically reduce screen time. That isn't easy but it then forces their hand. For our children, they will play some inside but there is only so much of that they will do until they go outside to play. Access to screens just short-circuits this dynamic. Also, we make regular visits to some of the bigger playground parks - there are always kids and they love these trips. Our kids are all under 12 and we've been doing this their whole lives so YMMV.

Do you work?

Yes, I do. Spouse works as well and we also own a small business.

What do you do that you don't have any time to take your kids to a playground or let them play outside?

When do you you have time to take kids to the park if you work? Are you part time?

I work full-time. Spouse works 3 10 hour days and the business is some weekends, mostly. The kids play outside after school and we go to a playground a couple or few times a week, some of those being on weekends. We are no screens Sunday evening until Friday evening("movie night") but we've done this since day one. If you are trying to start this from scratch w/ a 7-12 yo, it's going to be harder.

At the end of the day, you have time for that which you give priority to make time for. In addition to sports/EC's we've made this a priority so the time is there.

Right this afternoon, at this very moment, they decided they wanted to rake leaves in the front yard so they'd have a pile to jump in so that's today's spontaneous unstructured play. If there was a screen as an option, that would never happen.

So at that moment - 4:30pm - you were at home not working?

Yes, I was off work and picked up the kids. Like I said, we have prioritized this.

If you're not currently able to do this, it's because other things are a priority for you and this is not.

NP here. I’m not home by 4:30 because paying my rent is a priority for me. I wish I could be home that early!

Yes, of course - different priorities. My priorities also include paying for food and shelter(that goes w/o saying, I think).

Instead of "wishing" - you should envision a future where you can do both and then plan and execute the necessary steps to get there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Most everyone who is replying here realizes that this would be beneficial for their child yet is coming up with excuses as to why they can't or won't do it. Kinda sad, really.

The first step to making this happen here is to drastically reduce screen time. That isn't easy but it then forces their hand. For our children, they will play some inside but there is only so much of that they will do until they go outside to play. Access to screens just short-circuits this dynamic. Also, we make regular visits to some of the bigger playground parks - there are always kids and they love these trips. Our kids are all under 12 and we've been doing this their whole lives so YMMV.

Do you work?

Yes, I do. Spouse works as well and we also own a small business.

What do you do that you don't have any time to take your kids to a playground or let them play outside?

When do you you have time to take kids to the park if you work? Are you part time?

I work full-time. Spouse works 3 10 hour days and the business is some weekends, mostly. The kids play outside after school and we go to a playground a couple or few times a week, some of those being on weekends. We are no screens Sunday evening until Friday evening("movie night") but we've done this since day one. If you are trying to start this from scratch w/ a 7-12 yo, it's going to be harder.

At the end of the day, you have time for that which you give priority to make time for. In addition to sports/EC's we've made this a priority so the time is there.

Right this afternoon, at this very moment, they decided they wanted to rake leaves in the front yard so they'd have a pile to jump in so that's today's spontaneous unstructured play. If there was a screen as an option, that would never happen.

So at that moment - 4:30pm - you were at home not working?

Yes, I was off work and picked up the kids. Like I said, we have prioritized this.

If you're not currently able to do this, it's because other things are a priority for you and this is not.

NP here. I’m not home by 4:30 because paying my rent is a priority for me. I wish I could be home that early!

Yes, of course - different priorities. My priorities also include paying for food and shelter(that goes w/o saying, I think).

Instead of "wishing" - you should envision a future where you can do both and then plan and execute the necessary steps to get there.

Sorry I don’t want to train for a new career in my 40’s.

[Anonymous]

I was a no screen time mom. My boys played outside daily riding bikes, raking leaves, digging worms, etc. We took weekly trips to the library, visited every children and science museum in the country, zoo, aquarium. Now they are 12 and 14 and play multiple sports, get good grades, have lots of friends and watch tiktok and YouTube videos. It is what it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was a no screen time mom. My boys played outside daily riding bikes, raking leaves, digging worms, etc. We took weekly trips to the library, visited every children and science museum in the country, zoo, aquarium. Now they are 12 and 14 and play multiple sports, get good grades, have lots of friends and watch tiktok and YouTube videos. It is what it is.

They should still have some free play outside, they aren't that old.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was a no screen time mom. My boys played outside daily riding bikes, raking leaves, digging worms, etc. We took weekly trips to the library, visited every children and science museum in the country, zoo, aquarium. Now they are 12 and 14 and play multiple sports, get good grades, have lots of friends and watch tiktok and YouTube videos. It is what it is.

They should still have some free play outside, they aren't that old.

My older child started high school and is very busy. He plays sports 5-6 times per week. He is in multiple clubs and has homework. He hangs out with friends and they may throw the football around or play basketball in the driveway. I’m not sure what kind of independent outdoor free play you expect from high school students.

My 12yo has friends over often and they also hang out inside and outside. They mostly play basketball in our driveway if they are outside.