Lack of independent play is creating mental health crisis among kids today -- and overprotective parenting is to blame

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Most everyone who is replying here realizes that this would be beneficial for their child yet is coming up with excuses as to why they can't or won't do it. Kinda sad, really.

The first step to making this happen here is to drastically reduce screen time. That isn't easy but it then forces their hand. For our children, they will play some inside but there is only so much of that they will do until they go outside to play. Access to screens just short-circuits this dynamic. Also, we make regular visits to some of the bigger playground parks - there are always kids and they love these trips. Our kids are all under 12 and we've been doing this their whole lives so YMMV.

Do you work?

Yes, I do. Spouse works as well and we also own a small business.

What do you do that you don't have any time to take your kids to a playground or let them play outside?

When do you you have time to take kids to the park if you work? Are you part time?

I work full-time. Spouse works 3 10 hour days and the business is some weekends, mostly. The kids play outside after school and we go to a playground a couple or few times a week, some of those being on weekends. We are no screens Sunday evening until Friday evening("movie night") but we've done this since day one. If you are trying to start this from scratch w/ a 7-12 yo, it's going to be harder.

At the end of the day, you have time for that which you give priority to make time for. In addition to sports/EC's we've made this a priority so the time is there.

Right this afternoon, at this very moment, they decided they wanted to rake leaves in the front yard so they'd have a pile to jump in so that's today's spontaneous unstructured play. If there was a screen as an option, that would never happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Most everyone who is replying here realizes that this would be beneficial for their child yet is coming up with excuses as to why they can't or won't do it. Kinda sad, really.

The first step to making this happen here is to drastically reduce screen time. That isn't easy but it then forces their hand. For our children, they will play some inside but there is only so much of that they will do until they go outside to play. Access to screens just short-circuits this dynamic. Also, we make regular visits to some of the bigger playground parks - there are always kids and they love these trips. Our kids are all under 12 and we've been doing this their whole lives so YMMV.

Do you work?

Yes, I do. Spouse works as well and we also own a small business.

What do you do that you don't have any time to take your kids to a playground or let them play outside?

When do you you have time to take kids to the park if you work? Are you part time?

I work full-time. Spouse works 3 10 hour days and the business is some weekends, mostly. The kids play outside after school and we go to a playground a couple or few times a week, some of those being on weekends. We are no screens Sunday evening until Friday evening("movie night") but we've done this since day one. If you are trying to start this from scratch w/ a 7-12 yo, it's going to be harder.

At the end of the day, you have time for that which you give priority to make time for. In addition to sports/EC's we've made this a priority so the time is there.

Right this afternoon, at this very moment, they decided they wanted to rake leaves in the front yard so they'd have a pile to jump in so that's today's spontaneous unstructured play. If there was a screen as an option, that would never happen.

DP. I work full-time (from home 4 out of 5 days a week) from 7:30 to 3:30. I'm available to my kids pretty much every afternoon. The previous PP really can't conceive that working parents can find time to take their kids to the playground?? YIKES!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Most everyone who is replying here realizes that this would be beneficial for their child yet is coming up with excuses as to why they can't or won't do it. Kinda sad, really.

The first step to making this happen here is to drastically reduce screen time. That isn't easy but it then forces their hand. For our children, they will play some inside but there is only so much of that they will do until they go outside to play. Access to screens just short-circuits this dynamic. Also, we make regular visits to some of the bigger playground parks - there are always kids and they love these trips. Our kids are all under 12 and we've been doing this their whole lives so YMMV.

Do you work?

Yes, I do. Spouse works as well and we also own a small business.

What do you do that you don't have any time to take your kids to a playground or let them play outside?

When do you you have time to take kids to the park if you work? Are you part time?

I work full-time. Spouse works 3 10 hour days and the business is some weekends, mostly. The kids play outside after school and we go to a playground a couple or few times a week, some of those being on weekends. We are no screens Sunday evening until Friday evening("movie night") but we've done this since day one. If you are trying to start this from scratch w/ a 7-12 yo, it's going to be harder.

At the end of the day, you have time for that which you give priority to make time for. In addition to sports/EC's we've made this a priority so the time is there.

Right this afternoon, at this very moment, they decided they wanted to rake leaves in the front yard so they'd have a pile to jump in so that's today's spontaneous unstructured play. If there was a screen as an option, that would never happen.

DP. I work full-time (from home 4 out of 5 days a week) from 7:30 to 3:30. I'm available to my kids pretty much every afternoon. The previous PP really can't conceive that working parents can find time to take their kids to the playground?? YIKES!

A lot of people work 9 to 6 and some schools start early, necessitating early bedtimes. That kind of schedule makes a weekday trip to the playground difficult for many families.

I don't know what pp's schedule is like, but a lot of people aren't familiar with alternative work schedules. My parents always forget that our schedules are different than their workday.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As though aftercare isn't a Lord of the Flies free for all...

Yeah, I'm trying to understand why folks think aftercare or summer day camp is part of this particular problem. Both after care and traditional day camps (not talking about academic or specialty camps) are A LOT of unstructured play and a lot of it is outside and active. At my DD's camp last year she had a big free swim every afternoon (no different than going to the pool with friends) and overall I'd say a good 60% of the day was unstructured hanging out with peers -- jumping on trampolines, swinging in hammocks, making friendship bracelets and chatting, stuff like that... Certainly no screens! My kindergarten niece looooooves after care because it's truly just a big playdate. These things are not the problem.

I think a child does suffer for being truly over-scheduled with STRUCTURED activities, so they don't have time for playing with friends(whether its running around with neighborhood kids, playdates, aftercare, at day camp, etc.). You kid doesn't have to free roam though to have unstructured play with peers. And a balance with some structured activities is ok too.

You just imposed a pretty big structure on all that unstructured play you advocate: with other kids. You had to put that qualifier in every chance you got.

Parents who think there is something wrong with a child playing by herself or with siblings are another source of childhood anxiety. Like they can never live up to your expectations of being a social butterfly unless they are always at work socializing. Are you also the kind of parent who also engineers your children's friendships behind the scenes, making sure they only play with the "right" kids? Never being allowed to make friends without parental approval is not good for a child's mental health either.

Parents who overemphasize socializing are not better than parents who overemphasize an instument or sport.

Actually, I think down time and time spent alone are very important too. But did you read the interview? The particular issue being discussed is that kids need time with other kids so they can navigate social situations, deal with "minor bullying" (his words), solve a problem as a group, etc. My point was kind of don't let perfect be the enemy of the good...yes, free roaming the neighborhood with other kids provides a great setting to develop those skills, but so, actually, do play dates, after care, and even certain summer camps.

Also, I'm at a total loss as to what from post gave you the impression that I'm a social engineering parent. Was it just the mere mention of "playdate"? I schedule playdates for my DD with the kids SHE asks me to. Jeez.

I see a lot more social engineering and unhealthy social interactions via playdates, whether it's an adult directing the activities during "play" or just the usual exclusion and bullying. And playdates are not unstructure by vietue of the fact that they are appointments. When I take my kid to a random park at a random time and he finds a random unknown kid to play with or fight with for half an hour, that is unstructured and unengineered play.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Most everyone who is replying here realizes that this would be beneficial for their child yet is coming up with excuses as to why they can't or won't do it. Kinda sad, really.

The first step to making this happen here is to drastically reduce screen time. That isn't easy but it then forces their hand. For our children, they will play some inside but there is only so much of that they will do until they go outside to play. Access to screens just short-circuits this dynamic. Also, we make regular visits to some of the bigger playground parks - there are always kids and they love these trips. Our kids are all under 12 and we've been doing this their whole lives so YMMV.

Do you work?

Yes, I do. Spouse works as well and we also own a small business.

What do you do that you don't have any time to take your kids to a playground or let them play outside?

When do you you have time to take kids to the park if you work? Are you part time?

I work full-time. Spouse works 3 10 hour days and the business is some weekends, mostly. The kids play outside after school and we go to a playground a couple or few times a week, some of those being on weekends. We are no screens Sunday evening until Friday evening("movie night") but we've done this since day one. If you are trying to start this from scratch w/ a 7-12 yo, it's going to be harder.

At the end of the day, you have time for that which you give priority to make time for. In addition to sports/EC's we've made this a priority so the time is there.

Right this afternoon, at this very moment, they decided they wanted to rake leaves in the front yard so they'd have a pile to jump in so that's today's spontaneous unstructured play. If there was a screen as an option, that would never happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Most everyone who is replying here realizes that this would be beneficial for their child yet is coming up with excuses as to why they can't or won't do it. Kinda sad, really.

The first step to making this happen here is to drastically reduce screen time. That isn't easy but it then forces their hand. For our children, they will play some inside but there is only so much of that they will do until they go outside to play. Access to screens just short-circuits this dynamic. Also, we make regular visits to some of the bigger playground parks - there are always kids and they love these trips. Our kids are all under 12 and we've been doing this their whole lives so YMMV.

Do you work?

Yes, I do. Spouse works as well and we also own a small business.

What do you do that you don't have any time to take your kids to a playground or let them play outside?

When do you you have time to take kids to the park if you work? Are you part time?

I work full-time. Spouse works 3 10 hour days and the business is some weekends, mostly. The kids play outside after school and we go to a playground a couple or few times a week, some of those being on weekends. We are no screens Sunday evening until Friday evening("movie night") but we've done this since day one. If you are trying to start this from scratch w/ a 7-12 yo, it's going to be harder.

At the end of the day, you have time for that which you give priority to make time for. In addition to sports/EC's we've made this a priority so the time is there.

Right this afternoon, at this very moment, they decided they wanted to rake leaves in the front yard so they'd have a pile to jump in so that's today's spontaneous unstructured play. If there was a screen as an option, that would never happen.

So at that moment - 4:30pm - you were at home not working?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with this - but I think the problem is both overbearing parents AND parents constantly turning to screen time

Parents are turning to screen time because it’s impossible to do the adult life stuff and be your kids playmate. But you can’t just send them out, even though that’s what’s best for them.

It’s all interrelated

We had no cable tv, and my parents did "adult stuff" while we played by ourselves. My parents never played with us. That's a more recent thing, and I think part of the problem. Parents feel like they *have* to play with their kids. Kids won't find other kids to play with if mommy and daddy play with them all the time, or they have structured activities everyday. It becomes a vicious circle.

Just back off and let your kids figure it out. I'm not saying never play with your kids, but other kids should be their main source of playmates, not the parents or activities.

This is a situation where talking about "parents" as a monolith just doesn't work. And also why a tendency to view the past nostalgically, and the present critically, can lead you astray.

It's true that parents today are more likely to feel like they "have" to play with their kids. But why is that? In my case, it's because I was raised by people who actively disliked their children, and that had a negative impact on me both as a kid and as an adult. So I do feel I have an obligation to spend time with my kids, get to know them, take an interest in what they are interested in. But it's not driven by some vague cultural notion or just being a martyr. Is based on my own experience and a recognition that ignoring your kids and telling them, always, to please leave mommy and daddy alone, might have a negative impact on their psyche. I don't want my kids to have to spend two decades in therapy, as I have, building the scaffolding of a sense of self worth, because I am too busy or disinterested to play with them. So yes, I sometimes force myself to play with my kids even when I'm not really in the mood.

Now, I know that not all parents had my experience as a child. But I also no that I am nowhere near alone in it. My parents were the way they were for a few reasons, and they are common: (1) they were raised by Greatest Generation parents who were also alcoholics with untreated mental illness, including PTSD from the war/depression, and (2) they had kids young and out of obligation, and did not really view not having kids as an option. This is an extremely common combination of factors for people who had kids in the 1970s and 80s, and it often resulted in the kind of parental neglect I experienced, which means that a lot of people parenting today are working to correct that pattern with their own kids.

Yes people are sometimes overzealous, and I think parents could stand to be told, more often, "It's okay to take breaks from your kids, and it's okay to let your kids figure stuff out." But parents aren't playing with their kids or focusing on their kids because they are control freaks or because they are subscribing to some crackpot parenting technique they learned on Tik Tok. Most of the time parents are spending time with their kids in an effort to undo generational trauma. That's actually good! Why don't we talk more about how that's actually good?

whoaw.. you have issues that have nothing to do with your kids. You should've taken care of that before you had kids.

If I tell my kids to go play rather than expect me to play with them all the time that doesn't mean I don't love my kids. I'm sorry about your childhood, but you are projecting.

If you actually read my comment, you'd see I'm explicitly not projecting -- my point is that while not everyone has this background, it's a lot more common than people realize and helps to account for the shift in parenting approaches from one generation to the next.

And thanks, I absolutely did deal with my issues before I had kids and I tell my kids to go play without me all the time. However, I understand that when parents fail to do this, it's generally not because they are crap parents or idiots or something, or even that they are over protective. They are doing it for a reason, and if you understand the reason, you can better understand the problem. But people don't want to understand the problem.

You read my post and thought "whoa, ick, family trauma -- please keep that to yourself." Well guess what, that family trauma of alcoholic grandparents and neglectful parents (all kind of hidden under the table since everyone involved had a home and food and an education) is extremely common in the US. It's a generational pattern that results from large scale events like wars and major immigration waves, as well as smaller scale trends like drinking habits and access to mental healthcare.

You look at me and think "oh, you're a one off, we're talking about something else." But this is exactly what you are talking about. It's just uncomfortable so you'd rather yell at parents about screen time or complain that kids do too many after-school activities. Just blind.

I'm the PP. I grew up as a latchkey kid to immigrant parents. But, that "trauma" doesn't make me think I have to entertain my kids.

There is value in letting kids play by themselves or figure out how to entertain themselves; of letting them find neighborhood kids to play with. There is value in letting them be bored once in a while.

You have gone completely the opposite way of your parents. Neither extreme is good parenting. My parents weren't perfect parents, believe me. But, that doesn't mean I should do everything opposite that they did. My mother once said to me that being a parent must be so much harder today even with modern conveniences because today's parents are expected to cater to their children's every wants and needs and play with them. And she is right. We are doing this to ourselves.

Well of course not, you haven't described a trauma. Simply having parents who are immigrants is not a form of trauma. Being latchkey kid in the 80s or 90s wasn't a trauma either -- it was common and unless there was some deeper neglect involved (your parents weren't providing food for you to eat when you were home alone, you were forced to care for much younger siblings instead of doing homework or playing on your own, etc.), it's not trauma. So I can see why you put that in scare quotes because you didn't experience trauma.

I think a lot of people raised by immigrants mistakenly believe that (1) their life was harder because of their parents immigrant status -- in many instances, immigrants are the most organized and with it people because it takes high functioning to move to another country and make a go of it, and (2) that all white Americans are like the white people you see on TV sitcoms with nice houses and easy problems that are solved with consumer choices and perfectly communication.

You can sneer all you want, but the truth is that a lot of Americans grew up with actual trauma -- abusive, emotionally immature, parents or guardians and truly neglected childhood. You are blind to it because of our cultural narratives about race and immigration in the US.

[Anonymous]

I think the over parenting and over programming is also the result of mom guilt, particularly amongst highly educated and accomplished women, whether or not they WOH or took a break to SAH.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Most everyone who is replying here realizes that this would be beneficial for their child yet is coming up with excuses as to why they can't or won't do it. Kinda sad, really.

The first step to making this happen here is to drastically reduce screen time. That isn't easy but it then forces their hand. For our children, they will play some inside but there is only so much of that they will do until they go outside to play. Access to screens just short-circuits this dynamic. Also, we make regular visits to some of the bigger playground parks - there are always kids and they love these trips. Our kids are all under 12 and we've been doing this their whole lives so YMMV.

Do you work?

Yes, I do. Spouse works as well and we also own a small business.

What do you do that you don't have any time to take your kids to a playground or let them play outside?

When do you you have time to take kids to the park if you work? Are you part time?

I work full-time. Spouse works 3 10 hour days and the business is some weekends, mostly. The kids play outside after school and we go to a playground a couple or few times a week, some of those being on weekends. We are no screens Sunday evening until Friday evening("movie night") but we've done this since day one. If you are trying to start this from scratch w/ a 7-12 yo, it's going to be harder.

At the end of the day, you have time for that which you give priority to make time for. In addition to sports/EC's we've made this a priority so the time is there.

Right this afternoon, at this very moment, they decided they wanted to rake leaves in the front yard so they'd have a pile to jump in so that's today's spontaneous unstructured play. If there was a screen as an option, that would never happen.

DP. I work full-time (from home 4 out of 5 days a week) from 7:30 to 3:30. I'm available to my kids pretty much every afternoon. The previous PP really can't conceive that working parents can find time to take their kids to the playground?? YIKES!

Can you not conceive that many if not most parents who both work full-time simply don’t have time to get to the playground on a weekday afternoon?

And saying working parents do not have the right priorities is more than a little condescending.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with this - but I think the problem is both overbearing parents AND parents constantly turning to screen time

Parents are turning to screen time because it’s impossible to do the adult life stuff and be your kids playmate. But you can’t just send them out, even though that’s what’s best for them.

It’s all interrelated

We had no cable tv, and my parents did "adult stuff" while we played by ourselves. My parents never played with us. That's a more recent thing, and I think part of the problem. Parents feel like they *have* to play with their kids. Kids won't find other kids to play with if mommy and daddy play with them all the time, or they have structured activities everyday. It becomes a vicious circle.

Just back off and let your kids figure it out. I'm not saying never play with your kids, but other kids should be their main source of playmates, not the parents or activities.

This is a situation where talking about "parents" as a monolith just doesn't work. And also why a tendency to view the past nostalgically, and the present critically, can lead you astray.

It's true that parents today are more likely to feel like they "have" to play with their kids. But why is that? In my case, it's because I was raised by people who actively disliked their children, and that had a negative impact on me both as a kid and as an adult. So I do feel I have an obligation to spend time with my kids, get to know them, take an interest in what they are interested in. But it's not driven by some vague cultural notion or just being a martyr. Is based on my own experience and a recognition that ignoring your kids and telling them, always, to please leave mommy and daddy alone, might have a negative impact on their psyche. I don't want my kids to have to spend two decades in therapy, as I have, building the scaffolding of a sense of self worth, because I am too busy or disinterested to play with them. So yes, I sometimes force myself to play with my kids even when I'm not really in the mood.

Now, I know that not all parents had my experience as a child. But I also no that I am nowhere near alone in it. My parents were the way they were for a few reasons, and they are common: (1) they were raised by Greatest Generation parents who were also alcoholics with untreated mental illness, including PTSD from the war/depression, and (2) they had kids young and out of obligation, and did not really view not having kids as an option. This is an extremely common combination of factors for people who had kids in the 1970s and 80s, and it often resulted in the kind of parental neglect I experienced, which means that a lot of people parenting today are working to correct that pattern with their own kids.

Yes people are sometimes overzealous, and I think parents could stand to be told, more often, "It's okay to take breaks from your kids, and it's okay to let your kids figure stuff out." But parents aren't playing with their kids or focusing on their kids because they are control freaks or because they are subscribing to some crackpot parenting technique they learned on Tik Tok. Most of the time parents are spending time with their kids in an effort to undo generational trauma. That's actually good! Why don't we talk more about how that's actually good?

whoaw.. you have issues that have nothing to do with your kids. You should've taken care of that before you had kids.

If I tell my kids to go play rather than expect me to play with them all the time that doesn't mean I don't love my kids. I'm sorry about your childhood, but you are projecting.

If you actually read my comment, you'd see I'm explicitly not projecting -- my point is that while not everyone has this background, it's a lot more common than people realize and helps to account for the shift in parenting approaches from one generation to the next.

And thanks, I absolutely did deal with my issues before I had kids and I tell my kids to go play without me all the time. However, I understand that when parents fail to do this, it's generally not because they are crap parents or idiots or something, or even that they are over protective. They are doing it for a reason, and if you understand the reason, you can better understand the problem. But people don't want to understand the problem.

You read my post and thought "whoa, ick, family trauma -- please keep that to yourself." Well guess what, that family trauma of alcoholic grandparents and neglectful parents (all kind of hidden under the table since everyone involved had a home and food and an education) is extremely common in the US. It's a generational pattern that results from large scale events like wars and major immigration waves, as well as smaller scale trends like drinking habits and access to mental healthcare.

You look at me and think "oh, you're a one off, we're talking about something else." But this is exactly what you are talking about. It's just uncomfortable so you'd rather yell at parents about screen time or complain that kids do too many after-school activities. Just blind.

I'm the PP. I grew up as a latchkey kid to immigrant parents. But, that "trauma" doesn't make me think I have to entertain my kids.

There is value in letting kids play by themselves or figure out how to entertain themselves; of letting them find neighborhood kids to play with. There is value in letting them be bored once in a while.

You have gone completely the opposite way of your parents. Neither extreme is good parenting. My parents weren't perfect parents, believe me. But, that doesn't mean I should do everything opposite that they did. My mother once said to me that being a parent must be so much harder today even with modern conveniences because today's parents are expected to cater to their children's every wants and needs and play with them. And she is right. We are doing this to ourselves.

Well of course not, you haven't described a trauma. Simply having parents who are immigrants is not a form of trauma. Being latchkey kid in the 80s or 90s wasn't a trauma either -- it was common and unless there was some deeper neglect involved (your parents weren't providing food for you to eat when you were home alone, you were forced to care for much younger siblings instead of doing homework or playing on your own, etc.), it's not trauma. So I can see why you put that in scare quotes because you didn't experience trauma.

I think a lot of people raised by immigrants mistakenly believe that (1) their life was harder because of their parents immigrant status -- in many instances, immigrants are the most organized and with it people because it takes high functioning to move to another country and make a go of it, and (2) that all white Americans are like the white people you see on TV sitcoms with nice houses and easy problems that are solved with consumer choices and perfectly communication.

You can sneer all you want, but the truth is that a lot of Americans grew up with actual trauma -- abusive, emotionally immature, parents or guardians and truly neglected childhood. You are blind to it because of our cultural narratives about race and immigration in the US.

NP here. My parents were immigrants and thank you for this insightful comment which I believe is so true. I wish I had my shi—together enough to successfully move to a new country, learn the language, earn a living, make all new friends while leaving my friends and family in my country …oh and also raise my children.

I’m trying to do all this in the country I was born in and it’s a struggle so, I admire my parents grit so much more now that I’m an adult!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't even think that kids even get the concept if free play anymore. The holidays are here, dh has a large family. 10 nieces and nephew all between the ages of 4-13. I swear when we gather for holidays and things that they don't know what to do or how to entertain themselves anymore. They just wander around looking for adults to find them something to do. It's sad really, hanging with my cousins was so great growing up.

This definitely isn’t universal… there are 10 grandkids on my side, ages 2-14 (my kids & their cousins). At gatherings, they run around outside, play board games together, play hide & seek, just talk, etc. Usually in smaller groups than 10, but they definitely play independently (except the 2 yo still needs an adult around of course).

+1. I have one child and this entire discussion seems totally foreign to me. I haven’t organized an activity for play dates in…I don’t know when I ever did! By the time they were enough to play cooperatively, they figured it out together. When she’s with cousins or friends, they disappear for hours and reappear occasionally for snacks. The only time I organize is when there’s 6+ kids at a sleep over, otherwise they go feral and it’s pandemonium. And at home she zones out playing with toys or reading and doesn’t want to be interrupted. We probably do more activities than other families, but that’s because she likes them and I only have one schedule to chauffeur.

But let’s be real. 99% of it is temperament and some kids are pathologically incapable of entertaining themselves without whining. Sure you can encourage independent play when they’re toddlers, but some kids take to it more easily than others. Previous generations may have played with neighbors outside, but if no other kids are outside, what can parents do? We don’t do screens (much) and I don’t “play with” my kid, but I also don’t judge others that are juggling work and kids and do the best they can.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with this - but I think the problem is both overbearing parents AND parents constantly turning to screen time

Parents are turning to screen time because it’s impossible to do the adult life stuff and be your kids playmate. But you can’t just send them out, even though that’s what’s best for them.

It’s all interrelated

We had no cable tv, and my parents did "adult stuff" while we played by ourselves. My parents never played with us. That's a more recent thing, and I think part of the problem. Parents feel like they *have* to play with their kids. Kids won't find other kids to play with if mommy and daddy play with them all the time, or they have structured activities everyday. It becomes a vicious circle.

Just back off and let your kids figure it out. I'm not saying never play with your kids, but other kids should be their main source of playmates, not the parents or activities.

This is a situation where talking about "parents" as a monolith just doesn't work. And also why a tendency to view the past nostalgically, and the present critically, can lead you astray.

It's true that parents today are more likely to feel like they "have" to play with their kids. But why is that? In my case, it's because I was raised by people who actively disliked their children, and that had a negative impact on me both as a kid and as an adult. So I do feel I have an obligation to spend time with my kids, get to know them, take an interest in what they are interested in. But it's not driven by some vague cultural notion or just being a martyr. Is based on my own experience and a recognition that ignoring your kids and telling them, always, to please leave mommy and daddy alone, might have a negative impact on their psyche. I don't want my kids to have to spend two decades in therapy, as I have, building the scaffolding of a sense of self worth, because I am too busy or disinterested to play with them. So yes, I sometimes force myself to play with my kids even when I'm not really in the mood.

Now, I know that not all parents had my experience as a child. But I also no that I am nowhere near alone in it. My parents were the way they were for a few reasons, and they are common: (1) they were raised by Greatest Generation parents who were also alcoholics with untreated mental illness, including PTSD from the war/depression, and (2) they had kids young and out of obligation, and did not really view not having kids as an option. This is an extremely common combination of factors for people who had kids in the 1970s and 80s, and it often resulted in the kind of parental neglect I experienced, which means that a lot of people parenting today are working to correct that pattern with their own kids.

Yes people are sometimes overzealous, and I think parents could stand to be told, more often, "It's okay to take breaks from your kids, and it's okay to let your kids figure stuff out." But parents aren't playing with their kids or focusing on their kids because they are control freaks or because they are subscribing to some crackpot parenting technique they learned on Tik Tok. Most of the time parents are spending time with their kids in an effort to undo generational trauma. That's actually good! Why don't we talk more about how that's actually good?

whoaw.. you have issues that have nothing to do with your kids. You should've taken care of that before you had kids.

If I tell my kids to go play rather than expect me to play with them all the time that doesn't mean I don't love my kids. I'm sorry about your childhood, but you are projecting.

If you actually read my comment, you'd see I'm explicitly not projecting -- my point is that while not everyone has this background, it's a lot more common than people realize and helps to account for the shift in parenting approaches from one generation to the next.

And thanks, I absolutely did deal with my issues before I had kids and I tell my kids to go play without me all the time. However, I understand that when parents fail to do this, it's generally not because they are crap parents or idiots or something, or even that they are over protective. They are doing it for a reason, and if you understand the reason, you can better understand the problem. But people don't want to understand the problem.

You read my post and thought "whoa, ick, family trauma -- please keep that to yourself." Well guess what, that family trauma of alcoholic grandparents and neglectful parents (all kind of hidden under the table since everyone involved had a home and food and an education) is extremely common in the US. It's a generational pattern that results from large scale events like wars and major immigration waves, as well as smaller scale trends like drinking habits and access to mental healthcare.

You look at me and think "oh, you're a one off, we're talking about something else." But this is exactly what you are talking about. It's just uncomfortable so you'd rather yell at parents about screen time or complain that kids do too many after-school activities. Just blind.

I'm the PP. I grew up as a latchkey kid to immigrant parents. But, that "trauma" doesn't make me think I have to entertain my kids.

There is value in letting kids play by themselves or figure out how to entertain themselves; of letting them find neighborhood kids to play with. There is value in letting them be bored once in a while.

You have gone completely the opposite way of your parents. Neither extreme is good parenting. My parents weren't perfect parents, believe me. But, that doesn't mean I should do everything opposite that they did. My mother once said to me that being a parent must be so much harder today even with modern conveniences because today's parents are expected to cater to their children's every wants and needs and play with them. And she is right. We are doing this to ourselves.

Well of course not, you haven't described a trauma. Simply having parents who are immigrants is not a form of trauma. Being latchkey kid in the 80s or 90s wasn't a trauma either -- it was common and unless there was some deeper neglect involved (your parents weren't providing food for you to eat when you were home alone, you were forced to care for much younger siblings instead of doing homework or playing on your own, etc.), it's not trauma. So I can see why you put that in scare quotes because you didn't experience trauma.

I think a lot of people raised by immigrants mistakenly believe that (1) their life was harder because of their parents immigrant status -- in many instances, immigrants are the most organized and with it people because it takes high functioning to move to another country and make a go of it, and (2) that all white Americans are like the white people you see on TV sitcoms with nice houses and easy problems that are solved with consumer choices and perfectly communication.

You can sneer all you want, but the truth is that a lot of Americans grew up with actual trauma -- abusive, emotionally immature, parents or guardians and truly neglected childhood. You are blind to it because of our cultural narratives about race and immigration in the US.

+1 So tired of the "my parents were immigrants" whiners who most likely grew up rich.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Most everyone who is replying here realizes that this would be beneficial for their child yet is coming up with excuses as to why they can't or won't do it. Kinda sad, really.

The first step to making this happen here is to drastically reduce screen time. That isn't easy but it then forces their hand. For our children, they will play some inside but there is only so much of that they will do until they go outside to play. Access to screens just short-circuits this dynamic. Also, we make regular visits to some of the bigger playground parks - there are always kids and they love these trips. Our kids are all under 12 and we've been doing this their whole lives so YMMV.

Do you work?

Yes, I do. Spouse works as well and we also own a small business.

What do you do that you don't have any time to take your kids to a playground or let them play outside?

When do you you have time to take kids to the park if you work? Are you part time?

I work full-time. Spouse works 3 10 hour days and the business is some weekends, mostly. The kids play outside after school and we go to a playground a couple or few times a week, some of those being on weekends. We are no screens Sunday evening until Friday evening("movie night") but we've done this since day one. If you are trying to start this from scratch w/ a 7-12 yo, it's going to be harder.

At the end of the day, you have time for that which you give priority to make time for. In addition to sports/EC's we've made this a priority so the time is there.

Right this afternoon, at this very moment, they decided they wanted to rake leaves in the front yard so they'd have a pile to jump in so that's today's spontaneous unstructured play. If there was a screen as an option, that would never happen.

DP. I work full-time (from home 4 out of 5 days a week) from 7:30 to 3:30. I'm available to my kids pretty much every afternoon. The previous PP really can't conceive that working parents can find time to take their kids to the playground?? YIKES!

Can you not conceive that many if not most parents who both work full-time simply don’t have time to get to the playground on a weekday afternoon?

And saying working parents do not have the right priorities is more than a little condescending.

I'm not the PP who made the comment about right priorities. I get that if both parents aren't walking in the door until 6, then, yeah, weekday playground isn't happening. But a lot of households have dual working parents and yet schedules that look differently than that (from flexing, to WFH, to just atypical hours, etc.) The earlier PP seemed to think that only a SAH parent could make it to the playground.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with this - but I think the problem is both overbearing parents AND parents constantly turning to screen time

Parents are turning to screen time because it’s impossible to do the adult life stuff and be your kids playmate. But you can’t just send them out, even though that’s what’s best for them.

It’s all interrelated

We had no cable tv, and my parents did "adult stuff" while we played by ourselves. My parents never played with us. That's a more recent thing, and I think part of the problem. Parents feel like they *have* to play with their kids. Kids won't find other kids to play with if mommy and daddy play with them all the time, or they have structured activities everyday. It becomes a vicious circle.

Just back off and let your kids figure it out. I'm not saying never play with your kids, but other kids should be their main source of playmates, not the parents or activities.

This is a situation where talking about "parents" as a monolith just doesn't work. And also why a tendency to view the past nostalgically, and the present critically, can lead you astray.

It's true that parents today are more likely to feel like they "have" to play with their kids. But why is that? In my case, it's because I was raised by people who actively disliked their children, and that had a negative impact on me both as a kid and as an adult. So I do feel I have an obligation to spend time with my kids, get to know them, take an interest in what they are interested in. But it's not driven by some vague cultural notion or just being a martyr. Is based on my own experience and a recognition that ignoring your kids and telling them, always, to please leave mommy and daddy alone, might have a negative impact on their psyche. I don't want my kids to have to spend two decades in therapy, as I have, building the scaffolding of a sense of self worth, because I am too busy or disinterested to play with them. So yes, I sometimes force myself to play with my kids even when I'm not really in the mood.

Now, I know that not all parents had my experience as a child. But I also no that I am nowhere near alone in it. My parents were the way they were for a few reasons, and they are common: (1) they were raised by Greatest Generation parents who were also alcoholics with untreated mental illness, including PTSD from the war/depression, and (2) they had kids young and out of obligation, and did not really view not having kids as an option. This is an extremely common combination of factors for people who had kids in the 1970s and 80s, and it often resulted in the kind of parental neglect I experienced, which means that a lot of people parenting today are working to correct that pattern with their own kids.

Yes people are sometimes overzealous, and I think parents could stand to be told, more often, "It's okay to take breaks from your kids, and it's okay to let your kids figure stuff out." But parents aren't playing with their kids or focusing on their kids because they are control freaks or because they are subscribing to some crackpot parenting technique they learned on Tik Tok. Most of the time parents are spending time with their kids in an effort to undo generational trauma. That's actually good! Why don't we talk more about how that's actually good?

whoaw.. you have issues that have nothing to do with your kids. You should've taken care of that before you had kids.

If I tell my kids to go play rather than expect me to play with them all the time that doesn't mean I don't love my kids. I'm sorry about your childhood, but you are projecting.

If you actually read my comment, you'd see I'm explicitly not projecting -- my point is that while not everyone has this background, it's a lot more common than people realize and helps to account for the shift in parenting approaches from one generation to the next.

And thanks, I absolutely did deal with my issues before I had kids and I tell my kids to go play without me all the time. However, I understand that when parents fail to do this, it's generally not because they are crap parents or idiots or something, or even that they are over protective. They are doing it for a reason, and if you understand the reason, you can better understand the problem. But people don't want to understand the problem.

You read my post and thought "whoa, ick, family trauma -- please keep that to yourself." Well guess what, that family trauma of alcoholic grandparents and neglectful parents (all kind of hidden under the table since everyone involved had a home and food and an education) is extremely common in the US. It's a generational pattern that results from large scale events like wars and major immigration waves, as well as smaller scale trends like drinking habits and access to mental healthcare.

You look at me and think "oh, you're a one off, we're talking about something else." But this is exactly what you are talking about. It's just uncomfortable so you'd rather yell at parents about screen time or complain that kids do too many after-school activities. Just blind.

I'm the PP. I grew up as a latchkey kid to immigrant parents. But, that "trauma" doesn't make me think I have to entertain my kids.

There is value in letting kids play by themselves or figure out how to entertain themselves; of letting them find neighborhood kids to play with. There is value in letting them be bored once in a while.

You have gone completely the opposite way of your parents. Neither extreme is good parenting. My parents weren't perfect parents, believe me. But, that doesn't mean I should do everything opposite that they did. My mother once said to me that being a parent must be so much harder today even with modern conveniences because today's parents are expected to cater to their children's every wants and needs and play with them. And she is right. We are doing this to ourselves.

Well of course not, you haven't described a trauma. Simply having parents who are immigrants is not a form of trauma. Being latchkey kid in the 80s or 90s wasn't a trauma either -- it was common and unless there was some deeper neglect involved (your parents weren't providing food for you to eat when you were home alone, you were forced to care for much younger siblings instead of doing homework or playing on your own, etc.), it's not trauma. So I can see why you put that in scare quotes because you didn't experience trauma.

I think a lot of people raised by immigrants mistakenly believe that (1) their life was harder because of their parents immigrant status -- in many instances, immigrants are the most organized and with it people because it takes high functioning to move to another country and make a go of it, and (2) that all white Americans are like the white people you see on TV sitcoms with nice houses and easy problems that are solved with consumer choices and perfectly communication.

You can sneer all you want, but the truth is that a lot of Americans grew up with actual trauma -- abusive, emotionally immature, parents or guardians and truly neglected childhood. You are blind to it because of our cultural narratives about race and immigration in the US.

Well, I didn't mention that I was physically, mentally, and emotionally abused and did have trauma. And actually, I did go hungry sometimes. I recall it very clearly.

You make some assumptions here. We grew up so poor that I could tell you stories that would make you cry.

Even so, I don't feel the need to be the entertainment for my kids. Again, there's value in kids figuring things out for themselves. I wouldn't ever advocate for kids being left home alone like I was, but I can say that growing up this way made me more resilient and responsible cause I had to figure things out for myself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with this - but I think the problem is both overbearing parents AND parents constantly turning to screen time

Parents are turning to screen time because it’s impossible to do the adult life stuff and be your kids playmate. But you can’t just send them out, even though that’s what’s best for them.

It’s all interrelated

We had no cable tv, and my parents did "adult stuff" while we played by ourselves. My parents never played with us. That's a more recent thing, and I think part of the problem. Parents feel like they *have* to play with their kids. Kids won't find other kids to play with if mommy and daddy play with them all the time, or they have structured activities everyday. It becomes a vicious circle.

Just back off and let your kids figure it out. I'm not saying never play with your kids, but other kids should be their main source of playmates, not the parents or activities.

This is a situation where talking about "parents" as a monolith just doesn't work. And also why a tendency to view the past nostalgically, and the present critically, can lead you astray.

It's true that parents today are more likely to feel like they "have" to play with their kids. But why is that? In my case, it's because I was raised by people who actively disliked their children, and that had a negative impact on me both as a kid and as an adult. So I do feel I have an obligation to spend time with my kids, get to know them, take an interest in what they are interested in. But it's not driven by some vague cultural notion or just being a martyr. Is based on my own experience and a recognition that ignoring your kids and telling them, always, to please leave mommy and daddy alone, might have a negative impact on their psyche. I don't want my kids to have to spend two decades in therapy, as I have, building the scaffolding of a sense of self worth, because I am too busy or disinterested to play with them. So yes, I sometimes force myself to play with my kids even when I'm not really in the mood.

Now, I know that not all parents had my experience as a child. But I also no that I am nowhere near alone in it. My parents were the way they were for a few reasons, and they are common: (1) they were raised by Greatest Generation parents who were also alcoholics with untreated mental illness, including PTSD from the war/depression, and (2) they had kids young and out of obligation, and did not really view not having kids as an option. This is an extremely common combination of factors for people who had kids in the 1970s and 80s, and it often resulted in the kind of parental neglect I experienced, which means that a lot of people parenting today are working to correct that pattern with their own kids.

Yes people are sometimes overzealous, and I think parents could stand to be told, more often, "It's okay to take breaks from your kids, and it's okay to let your kids figure stuff out." But parents aren't playing with their kids or focusing on their kids because they are control freaks or because they are subscribing to some crackpot parenting technique they learned on Tik Tok. Most of the time parents are spending time with their kids in an effort to undo generational trauma. That's actually good! Why don't we talk more about how that's actually good?

whoaw.. you have issues that have nothing to do with your kids. You should've taken care of that before you had kids.

If I tell my kids to go play rather than expect me to play with them all the time that doesn't mean I don't love my kids. I'm sorry about your childhood, but you are projecting.

If you actually read my comment, you'd see I'm explicitly not projecting -- my point is that while not everyone has this background, it's a lot more common than people realize and helps to account for the shift in parenting approaches from one generation to the next.

And thanks, I absolutely did deal with my issues before I had kids and I tell my kids to go play without me all the time. However, I understand that when parents fail to do this, it's generally not because they are crap parents or idiots or something, or even that they are over protective. They are doing it for a reason, and if you understand the reason, you can better understand the problem. But people don't want to understand the problem.

You read my post and thought "whoa, ick, family trauma -- please keep that to yourself." Well guess what, that family trauma of alcoholic grandparents and neglectful parents (all kind of hidden under the table since everyone involved had a home and food and an education) is extremely common in the US. It's a generational pattern that results from large scale events like wars and major immigration waves, as well as smaller scale trends like drinking habits and access to mental healthcare.

You look at me and think "oh, you're a one off, we're talking about something else." But this is exactly what you are talking about. It's just uncomfortable so you'd rather yell at parents about screen time or complain that kids do too many after-school activities. Just blind.

I'm the PP. I grew up as a latchkey kid to immigrant parents. But, that "trauma" doesn't make me think I have to entertain my kids.

There is value in letting kids play by themselves or figure out how to entertain themselves; of letting them find neighborhood kids to play with. There is value in letting them be bored once in a while.

You have gone completely the opposite way of your parents. Neither extreme is good parenting. My parents weren't perfect parents, believe me. But, that doesn't mean I should do everything opposite that they did. My mother once said to me that being a parent must be so much harder today even with modern conveniences because today's parents are expected to cater to their children's every wants and needs and play with them. And she is right. We are doing this to ourselves.

Well of course not, you haven't described a trauma. Simply having parents who are immigrants is not a form of trauma. Being latchkey kid in the 80s or 90s wasn't a trauma either -- it was common and unless there was some deeper neglect involved (your parents weren't providing food for you to eat when you were home alone, you were forced to care for much younger siblings instead of doing homework or playing on your own, etc.), it's not trauma. So I can see why you put that in scare quotes because you didn't experience trauma.

I think a lot of people raised by immigrants mistakenly believe that (1) their life was harder because of their parents immigrant status -- in many instances, immigrants are the most organized and with it people because it takes high functioning to move to another country and make a go of it, and (2) that all white Americans are like the white people you see on TV sitcoms with nice houses and easy problems that are solved with consumer choices and perfectly communication.

You can sneer all you want, but the truth is that a lot of Americans grew up with actual trauma -- abusive, emotionally immature, parents or guardians and truly neglected childhood. You are blind to it because of our cultural narratives about race and immigration in the US.

+1 So tired of the "my parents were immigrants" whiners who most likely grew up rich.

wtf.. I grew up poor. Cockroaches and maggots everywhere. My parents tied me and my little brother to a bed with a very long rope so that we couldn't wander and leave the house while they were at work. Yea, that was dangerous. That's how we grew up.

You both are freakin clueless. A lot of immigrant children are abused. You have a weird notion of how immigrant families are. You clearly never met any.