VT ahead of WM in USNews

[Anonymous]

How do first gen students improve rating?

[Anonymous]

W&M is ranked right where it should be. It’s been living on a reputation that is very out of date.

No highly ranked programs of note (compared to national level peers) and a poor overall student experience.

Not surprised by this this. Just wondering why it took so long.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I haven’t been to VT in a long time. Has it changed so much in those years? It was in a rural town and most of what students did for fun was drink and watch sports? My husband transferred out because there was nothing there if that wasn’t your scene. W&M also not exactly in a bustling location but definitely has less of a Greek influence. Unless Tech has changed entirely over those years (and hey maybe it has) these just don’t seem like schools the same kind of student would choose.

VT has less than 20% Greek participation. The vast majority of students there are not Greek, but are involved in the more than 800 clubs. I believe W&M has a higher Greek percentage precisely because there is not much to do there. I think your views of the schools are vastly outdated.

Do you think they attract the same sort of student? Because I know a lot of kids at both, and they really do not. VT is a bit unusual in that it has the engineering and CS kids, who are pretty different than everyone else. And not good candidates for WM. The kids in other fields are different. I’ve seen kids deciding between UVA and WM. And UVA and VT. But not between WM and VT, because these schools have very little academic or social overlap.

I don’t think they attract the same type of students socially, but academically - yes. Engineering is only about 1/3 of the student body at VT. The majority of students there are majoring in other disciplines.

I think the students are quite different academically (with the exception that the VT engineering students are similar to the academic profile of W&M students).

I disagree. At our high school, the top students applied to VT and only some of them got in. Most weren’t going for engineering.

Then they were going for what? CS? Business Information system?

VT has a 56% acceptance and a 26-32 ACT range, 3.8-4.28 GPA. **And that includes engineering and CS***. Arts and sciences does not give a separate acceptance rate from engineering and engineering/CS admit numbers are included in the GPA and ACT. The Arts and sciences info page says “a mixture of As and Bs” with “upper level” classes.

WM, even without engineering, is ACT 30-34, 4.18-4.5 GPA and has a 33% admit rate.

NOT the same students.

Ok, whatever makes you feel better. The fact remains, VT was far more sought after by top-stats kids than W&M. Don't know what to tell you.

The PP presented actual facts that show W&M attracts a significantly higher percentage of top-stats kids. You made the opposite claim without facts and claimed it as fact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:W&M is ranked right where it should be. It’s been living on a reputation that is very out of date.

No highly ranked programs of note (compared to national level peers) and a poor overall student experience.

Not surprised by this this. Just wondering why it took so long.

I agree and have no dog in this fight. But I think your observations are on point.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I haven’t been to VT in a long time. Has it changed so much in those years? It was in a rural town and most of what students did for fun was drink and watch sports? My husband transferred out because there was nothing there if that wasn’t your scene. W&M also not exactly in a bustling location but definitely has less of a Greek influence. Unless Tech has changed entirely over those years (and hey maybe it has) these just don’t seem like schools the same kind of student would choose.

VT has less than 20% Greek participation. The vast majority of students there are not Greek, but are involved in the more than 800 clubs. I believe W&M has a higher Greek percentage precisely because there is not much to do there. I think your views of the schools are vastly outdated.

Do you think they attract the same sort of student? Because I know a lot of kids at both, and they really do not. VT is a bit unusual in that it has the engineering and CS kids, who are pretty different than everyone else. And not good candidates for WM. The kids in other fields are different. I’ve seen kids deciding between UVA and WM. And UVA and VT. But not between WM and VT, because these schools have very little academic or social overlap.

I don’t think they attract the same type of students socially, but academically - yes. Engineering is only about 1/3 of the student body at VT. The majority of students there are majoring in other disciplines.

I think the students are quite different academically (with the exception that the VT engineering students are similar to the academic profile of W&M students).

I disagree. At our high school, the top students applied to VT and only some of them got in. Most weren’t going for engineering.

Then they were going for what? CS? Business Information system?

VT has a 56% acceptance and a 26-32 ACT range, 3.8-4.28 GPA. **And that includes engineering and CS***. Arts and sciences does not give a separate acceptance rate from engineering and engineering/CS admit numbers are included in the GPA and ACT. The Arts and sciences info page says “a mixture of As and Bs” with “upper level” classes.

WM, even without engineering, is ACT 30-34, 4.18-4.5 GPA and has a 33% admit rate.

NOT the same students.

Ok, whatever makes you feel better. The fact remains, VT was far more sought after by top-stats kids than W&M. Don't know what to tell you.

The PP presented actual facts that show W&M attracts a significantly higher percentage of top-stats kids. You made the opposite claim without facts and claimed it as fact.

Sorry, I meant to add "far more sought after by top-stats kids AT OUR HIGH SCHOOL than W&M." Feel better now? At any rate, as another poster pointed out, there is a huge overlap in those stats. I'm not sure how you could possibly argue otherwise.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I read a story on WTOP where they quoted the USNW people as saying they are favoring schools with strong STEM over general liberal arts education.

Maybe the above rationale explains why UVA is getting kicked out of top 25 this year.

It didn't. UVA moved up from 25 to 24. Here. https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities

No, UVA is at 26.

It moved up to 24. read right here. https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities

Or down to 27. They are tied with three other schools.

Was there a glitch when you checked? It says UVa at #24 on the U.S. News website. It rose one spot compared with last year and is on same level as Wash U and Emory (supposedly). Let us know if site doesn't work for you.

But in reality there aren’t 4 schools ranked 24. There are 4 schools ranked 24-27. I’m not sure why 24 bs 27 in one ranking with questionable methodology matters. I do know UVA boosters are over the top. If you were 25 and became tied with 4 schools for 24 to 27, you stayed stable.

With all due respect, T=that's not how these rankings work. For example, Michigan and Georgetown are both ranked #22. Are you understanding -- this may be different from other rankings you have seen. Many schools tie and they get the same ranking, from top of the ranking to the bottom. Or are you not being serious?

Your example is wrong. Michigan is ranked ahead of Georgetown at #21. Georgetown is tied with UNC at #22.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I haven’t been to VT in a long time. Has it changed so much in those years? It was in a rural town and most of what students did for fun was drink and watch sports? My husband transferred out because there was nothing there if that wasn’t your scene. W&M also not exactly in a bustling location but definitely has less of a Greek influence. Unless Tech has changed entirely over those years (and hey maybe it has) these just don’t seem like schools the same kind of student would choose.

VT has less than 20% Greek participation. The vast majority of students there are not Greek, but are involved in the more than 800 clubs. I believe W&M has a higher Greek percentage precisely because there is not much to do there. I think your views of the schools are vastly outdated.

Do you think they attract the same sort of student? Because I know a lot of kids at both, and they really do not. VT is a bit unusual in that it has the engineering and CS kids, who are pretty different than everyone else. And not good candidates for WM. The kids in other fields are different. I’ve seen kids deciding between UVA and WM. And UVA and VT. But not between WM and VT, because these schools have very little academic or social overlap.

I don’t think they attract the same type of students socially, but academically - yes. Engineering is only about 1/3 of the student body at VT. The majority of students there are majoring in other disciplines.

I think the students are quite different academically (with the exception that the VT engineering students are similar to the academic profile of W&M students).

I disagree. At our high school, the top students applied to VT and only some of them got in. Most weren’t going for engineering.

Then they were going for what? CS? Business Information system?

VT has a 56% acceptance and a 26-32 ACT range, 3.8-4.28 GPA. **And that includes engineering and CS***. Arts and sciences does not give a separate acceptance rate from engineering and engineering/CS admit numbers are included in the GPA and ACT. The Arts and sciences info page says “a mixture of As and Bs” with “upper level” classes.

WM, even without engineering, is ACT 30-34, 4.18-4.5 GPA and has a 33% admit rate.

NOT the same students.

Ok, whatever makes you feel better. The fact remains, VT was far more sought after by top-stats kids than W&M. Don't know what to tell you.

The PP presented actual facts that show W&M attracts a significantly higher percentage of top-stats kids. You made the opposite claim without facts and claimed it as fact.

Sorry, I meant to add "far more sought after by top-stats kids AT OUR HIGH SCHOOL than W&M." Feel better now? At any rate, as another poster pointed out, there is a huge overlap in those stats. I'm not sure how you could possibly argue otherwise.

At our high school, top-stats kids only apply to VT if they’re interested in engineering.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I haven’t been to VT in a long time. Has it changed so much in those years? It was in a rural town and most of what students did for fun was drink and watch sports? My husband transferred out because there was nothing there if that wasn’t your scene. W&M also not exactly in a bustling location but definitely has less of a Greek influence. Unless Tech has changed entirely over those years (and hey maybe it has) these just don’t seem like schools the same kind of student would choose.

VT has less than 20% Greek participation. The vast majority of students there are not Greek, but are involved in the more than 800 clubs. I believe W&M has a higher Greek percentage precisely because there is not much to do there. I think your views of the schools are vastly outdated.

Do you think they attract the same sort of student? Because I know a lot of kids at both, and they really do not. VT is a bit unusual in that it has the engineering and CS kids, who are pretty different than everyone else. And not good candidates for WM. The kids in other fields are different. I’ve seen kids deciding between UVA and WM. And UVA and VT. But not between WM and VT, because these schools have very little academic or social overlap.

I don’t think they attract the same type of students socially, but academically - yes. Engineering is only about 1/3 of the student body at VT. The majority of students there are majoring in other disciplines.

I think the students are quite different academically (with the exception that the VT engineering students are similar to the academic profile of W&M students).

I disagree. At our high school, the top students applied to VT and only some of them got in. Most weren’t going for engineering.

Then they were going for what? CS? Business Information system?

VT has a 56% acceptance and a 26-32 ACT range, 3.8-4.28 GPA. **And that includes engineering and CS***. Arts and sciences does not give a separate acceptance rate from engineering and engineering/CS admit numbers are included in the GPA and ACT. The Arts and sciences info page says “a mixture of As and Bs” with “upper level” classes.

WM, even without engineering, is ACT 30-34, 4.18-4.5 GPA and has a 33% admit rate.

NOT the same students.

It’s a bit higher for this year’s class.

The group is academically talented, boasting a middle 50% SAT score range of 1410-1530 and middle 50% ACT score range of 33-35. For students from schools providing a class rank, 87% ranked in the top 10% of their class. About 30% of the admitted students applied without standardized test scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:W&M is ranked right where it should be. It’s been living on a reputation that is very out of date.

No highly ranked programs of note (compared to national level peers) and a poor overall student experience.

Not surprised by this this. Just wondering why it took so long.

I agree and have no dog in this fight. But I think your observations are on point.

"No highly ranked programs of note" this is a flawed statement because program rankings often focus on research output. W&M is not a massive research powerhouse.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I haven’t been to VT in a long time. Has it changed so much in those years? It was in a rural town and most of what students did for fun was drink and watch sports? My husband transferred out because there was nothing there if that wasn’t your scene. W&M also not exactly in a bustling location but definitely has less of a Greek influence. Unless Tech has changed entirely over those years (and hey maybe it has) these just don’t seem like schools the same kind of student would choose.

VT has less than 20% Greek participation. The vast majority of students there are not Greek, but are involved in the more than 800 clubs. I believe W&M has a higher Greek percentage precisely because there is not much to do there. I think your views of the schools are vastly outdated.

Do you think they attract the same sort of student? Because I know a lot of kids at both, and they really do not. VT is a bit unusual in that it has the engineering and CS kids, who are pretty different than everyone else. And not good candidates for WM. The kids in other fields are different. I’ve seen kids deciding between UVA and WM. And UVA and VT. But not between WM and VT, because these schools have very little academic or social overlap.

I don’t think they attract the same type of students socially, but academically - yes. Engineering is only about 1/3 of the student body at VT. The majority of students there are majoring in other disciplines.

I think the students are quite different academically (with the exception that the VT engineering students are similar to the academic profile of W&M students).

I disagree. At our high school, the top students applied to VT and only some of them got in. Most weren’t going for engineering.

Then they were going for what? CS? Business Information system?

VT has a 56% acceptance and a 26-32 ACT range, 3.8-4.28 GPA. **And that includes engineering and CS***. Arts and sciences does not give a separate acceptance rate from engineering and engineering/CS admit numbers are included in the GPA and ACT. The Arts and sciences info page says “a mixture of As and Bs” with “upper level” classes.

WM, even without engineering, is ACT 30-34, 4.18-4.5 GPA and has a 33% admit rate.

NOT the same students.

Ok, whatever makes you feel better. The fact remains, VT was far more sought after by top-stats kids than W&M. Don't know what to tell you.

That may be true among a dozen of your kids friends in their little niche. But the numbers and objective data don’t support your assertion. Unless you are talking about engineering and CS. Don’t know what to tell you. The data is what it is.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I haven’t been to VT in a long time. Has it changed so much in those years? It was in a rural town and most of what students did for fun was drink and watch sports? My husband transferred out because there was nothing there if that wasn’t your scene. W&M also not exactly in a bustling location but definitely has less of a Greek influence. Unless Tech has changed entirely over those years (and hey maybe it has) these just don’t seem like schools the same kind of student would choose.

VT has less than 20% Greek participation. The vast majority of students there are not Greek, but are involved in the more than 800 clubs. I believe W&M has a higher Greek percentage precisely because there is not much to do there. I think your views of the schools are vastly outdated.

Do you think they attract the same sort of student? Because I know a lot of kids at both, and they really do not. VT is a bit unusual in that it has the engineering and CS kids, who are pretty different than everyone else. And not good candidates for WM. The kids in other fields are different. I’ve seen kids deciding between UVA and WM. And UVA and VT. But not between WM and VT, because these schools have very little academic or social overlap.

I don’t think they attract the same type of students socially, but academically - yes. Engineering is only about 1/3 of the student body at VT. The majority of students there are majoring in other disciplines.

I think the students are quite different academically (with the exception that the VT engineering students are similar to the academic profile of W&M students).

I disagree. At our high school, the top students applied to VT and only some of them got in. Most weren’t going for engineering.

Then they were going for what? CS? Business Information system?

VT has a 56% acceptance and a 26-32 ACT range, 3.8-4.28 GPA. **And that includes engineering and CS***. Arts and sciences does not give a separate acceptance rate from engineering and engineering/CS admit numbers are included in the GPA and ACT. The Arts and sciences info page says “a mixture of As and Bs” with “upper level” classes.

WM, even without engineering, is ACT 30-34, 4.18-4.5 GPA and has a 33% admit rate.

NOT the same students.

Ok, whatever makes you feel better. The fact remains, VT was far more sought after by top-stats kids than W&M. Don't know what to tell you.

The PP presented actual facts that show W&M attracts a significantly higher percentage of top-stats kids. You made the opposite claim without facts and claimed it as fact.

Sorry, I meant to add "far more sought after by top-stats kids AT OUR HIGH SCHOOL than W&M." Feel better now? At any rate, as another poster pointed out, there is a huge overlap in those stats. I'm not sure how you could possibly argue otherwise.

There’s a very small overlap. Top 75% VT GPA is 4.28. Botton 25% WM is 4.12. That’s not a huge overlap. Take engineering out of the mix and there is no overlap. Your 4.1 GPA unhooked kid is not dmitted to WM and and easy admit to VT Arts & Sciences. Ditto your 32 ACT. Low chance at WM. Very high at VT.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I haven’t been to VT in a long time. Has it changed so much in those years? It was in a rural town and most of what students did for fun was drink and watch sports? My husband transferred out because there was nothing there if that wasn’t your scene. W&M also not exactly in a bustling location but definitely has less of a Greek influence. Unless Tech has changed entirely over those years (and hey maybe it has) these just don’t seem like schools the same kind of student would choose.

VT has less than 20% Greek participation. The vast majority of students there are not Greek, but are involved in the more than 800 clubs. I believe W&M has a higher Greek percentage precisely because there is not much to do there. I think your views of the schools are vastly outdated.

Do you think they attract the same sort of student? Because I know a lot of kids at both, and they really do not. VT is a bit unusual in that it has the engineering and CS kids, who are pretty different than everyone else. And not good candidates for WM. The kids in other fields are different. I’ve seen kids deciding between UVA and WM. And UVA and VT. But not between WM and VT, because these schools have very little academic or social overlap.

I don’t think they attract the same type of students socially, but academically - yes. Engineering is only about 1/3 of the student body at VT. The majority of students there are majoring in other disciplines.

I think the students are quite different academically (with the exception that the VT engineering students are similar to the academic profile of W&M students).

I disagree. At our high school, the top students applied to VT and only some of them got in. Most weren’t going for engineering.

Then they were going for what? CS? Business Information system?

VT has a 56% acceptance and a 26-32 ACT range, 3.8-4.28 GPA. **And that includes engineering and CS***. Arts and sciences does not give a separate acceptance rate from engineering and engineering/CS admit numbers are included in the GPA and ACT. The Arts and sciences info page says “a mixture of As and Bs” with “upper level” classes.

WM, even without engineering, is ACT 30-34, 4.18-4.5 GPA and has a 33% admit rate.

NOT the same students.

Ok, whatever makes you feel better. The fact remains, VT was far more sought after by top-stats kids than W&M. Don't know what to tell you.

The PP presented actual facts that show W&M attracts a significantly higher percentage of top-stats kids. You made the opposite claim without facts and claimed it as fact.

Sorry, I meant to add "far more sought after by top-stats kids AT OUR HIGH SCHOOL than W&M." Feel better now? At any rate, as another poster pointed out, there is a huge overlap in those stats. I'm not sure how you could possibly argue otherwise.

There’s a very small overlap. Top 75% VT GPA is 4.28. Botton 25% WM is 4.12. That’s not a huge overlap. Take engineering out of the mix and there is no overlap. Your 4.1 GPA unhooked kid is not dmitted to WM and and easy admit to VT Arts & Sciences. Ditto your 32 ACT. Low chance at WM. Very high at VT.

Your omniscience certainly doesn't play IRL. Many of our top kids were flat-out rejected at VT, and again - not for engineering. But you know best!

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I haven’t been to VT in a long time. Has it changed so much in those years? It was in a rural town and most of what students did for fun was drink and watch sports? My husband transferred out because there was nothing there if that wasn’t your scene. W&M also not exactly in a bustling location but definitely has less of a Greek influence. Unless Tech has changed entirely over those years (and hey maybe it has) these just don’t seem like schools the same kind of student would choose.

VT has less than 20% Greek participation. The vast majority of students there are not Greek, but are involved in the more than 800 clubs. I believe W&M has a higher Greek percentage precisely because there is not much to do there. I think your views of the schools are vastly outdated.

Do you think they attract the same sort of student? Because I know a lot of kids at both, and they really do not. VT is a bit unusual in that it has the engineering and CS kids, who are pretty different than everyone else. And not good candidates for WM. The kids in other fields are different. I’ve seen kids deciding between UVA and WM. And UVA and VT. But not between WM and VT, because these schools have very little academic or social overlap.

I don’t think they attract the same type of students socially, but academically - yes. Engineering is only about 1/3 of the student body at VT. The majority of students there are majoring in other disciplines.

I think the students are quite different academically (with the exception that the VT engineering students are similar to the academic profile of W&M students).

I disagree. At our high school, the top students applied to VT and only some of them got in. Most weren’t going for engineering.

Then they were going for what? CS? Business Information system?

VT has a 56% acceptance and a 26-32 ACT range, 3.8-4.28 GPA. **And that includes engineering and CS***. Arts and sciences does not give a separate acceptance rate from engineering and engineering/CS admit numbers are included in the GPA and ACT. The Arts and sciences info page says “a mixture of As and Bs” with “upper level” classes.

WM, even without engineering, is ACT 30-34, 4.18-4.5 GPA and has a 33% admit rate.

NOT the same students.

Ok, whatever makes you feel better. The fact remains, VT was far more sought after by top-stats kids than W&M. Don't know what to tell you.

The PP presented actual facts that show W&M attracts a significantly higher percentage of top-stats kids. You made the opposite claim without facts and claimed it as fact.

Sorry, I meant to add "far more sought after by top-stats kids AT OUR HIGH SCHOOL than W&M." Feel better now? At any rate, as another poster pointed out, there is a huge overlap in those stats. I'm not sure how you could possibly argue otherwise.

The overlap between Harvard stats and W&M stats is bigger than the overlap of W&M and VT stats. But I certainly wouldn't say there is a "huge overlap" between Harvard and W&M.

The delta between Harvard and W&M for SAT at 25th/50th/75th percentiles is 115, 90, and 60 points respectively. The delta between W&M and VT for SAT at 25th/50th/75th percentiles is 155, 130, and 100 points respectively.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I haven’t been to VT in a long time. Has it changed so much in those years? It was in a rural town and most of what students did for fun was drink and watch sports? My husband transferred out because there was nothing there if that wasn’t your scene. W&M also not exactly in a bustling location but definitely has less of a Greek influence. Unless Tech has changed entirely over those years (and hey maybe it has) these just don’t seem like schools the same kind of student would choose.

VT has less than 20% Greek participation. The vast majority of students there are not Greek, but are involved in the more than 800 clubs. I believe W&M has a higher Greek percentage precisely because there is not much to do there. I think your views of the schools are vastly outdated.

Do you think they attract the same sort of student? Because I know a lot of kids at both, and they really do not. VT is a bit unusual in that it has the engineering and CS kids, who are pretty different than everyone else. And not good candidates for WM. The kids in other fields are different. I’ve seen kids deciding between UVA and WM. And UVA and VT. But not between WM and VT, because these schools have very little academic or social overlap.

I don’t think they attract the same type of students socially, but academically - yes. Engineering is only about 1/3 of the student body at VT. The majority of students there are majoring in other disciplines.

I think the students are quite different academically (with the exception that the VT engineering students are similar to the academic profile of W&M students).

I disagree. At our high school, the top students applied to VT and only some of them got in. Most weren’t going for engineering.

Then they were going for what? CS? Business Information system?

VT has a 56% acceptance and a 26-32 ACT range, 3.8-4.28 GPA. **And that includes engineering and CS***. Arts and sciences does not give a separate acceptance rate from engineering and engineering/CS admit numbers are included in the GPA and ACT. The Arts and sciences info page says “a mixture of As and Bs” with “upper level” classes.

WM, even without engineering, is ACT 30-34, 4.18-4.5 GPA and has a 33% admit rate.

NOT the same students.

Ok, whatever makes you feel better. The fact remains, VT was far more sought after by top-stats kids than W&M. Don't know what to tell you.

NP it’s absolutely not a “fact”. My kid had no desire to go to VT, applying to UVA and W&M instead. VT was where the average smart kids in their school went not the “top-stats” kids.

Well, clearly our kids do not attend the same high school.

Apparently. VT was not a particularly hard admit with dozens from our school
Attending and still dozens more accepted and not attending.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I haven’t been to VT in a long time. Has it changed so much in those years? It was in a rural town and most of what students did for fun was drink and watch sports? My husband transferred out because there was nothing there if that wasn’t your scene. W&M also not exactly in a bustling location but definitely has less of a Greek influence. Unless Tech has changed entirely over those years (and hey maybe it has) these just don’t seem like schools the same kind of student would choose.

VT has less than 20% Greek participation. The vast majority of students there are not Greek, but are involved in the more than 800 clubs. I believe W&M has a higher Greek percentage precisely because there is not much to do there. I think your views of the schools are vastly outdated.

Do you think they attract the same sort of student? Because I know a lot of kids at both, and they really do not. VT is a bit unusual in that it has the engineering and CS kids, who are pretty different than everyone else. And not good candidates for WM. The kids in other fields are different. I’ve seen kids deciding between UVA and WM. And UVA and VT. But not between WM and VT, because these schools have very little academic or social overlap.

I don’t think they attract the same type of students socially, but academically - yes. Engineering is only about 1/3 of the student body at VT. The majority of students there are majoring in other disciplines.

I think the students are quite different academically (with the exception that the VT engineering students are similar to the academic profile of W&M students).

I disagree. At our high school, the top students applied to VT and only some of them got in. Most weren’t going for engineering.

Then they were going for what? CS? Business Information system?

VT has a 56% acceptance and a 26-32 ACT range, 3.8-4.28 GPA. **And that includes engineering and CS***. Arts and sciences does not give a separate acceptance rate from engineering and engineering/CS admit numbers are included in the GPA and ACT. The Arts and sciences info page says “a mixture of As and Bs” with “upper level” classes.

WM, even without engineering, is ACT 30-34, 4.18-4.5 GPA and has a 33% admit rate.

NOT the same students.

Ok, whatever makes you feel better. The fact remains, VT was far more sought after by top-stats kids than W&M. Don't know what to tell you.

The PP presented actual facts that show W&M attracts a significantly higher percentage of top-stats kids. You made the opposite claim without facts and claimed it as fact.

Sorry, I meant to add "far more sought after by top-stats kids AT OUR HIGH SCHOOL than W&M." Feel better now? At any rate, as another poster pointed out, there is a huge overlap in those stats. I'm not sure how you could possibly argue otherwise.

There’s a very small overlap. Top 75% VT GPA is 4.28. Botton 25% WM is 4.12. That’s not a huge overlap. Take engineering out of the mix and there is no overlap. Your 4.1 GPA unhooked kid is not dmitted to WM and and easy admit to VT Arts & Sciences. Ditto your 32 ACT. Low chance at WM. Very high at VT.

Your omniscience certainly doesn't play IRL. Many of our top kids were flat-out rejected at VT, and again - not for engineering. But you know best!

So, your kids attend a crappy HS. It looks like everyone who was top half but not top 10-15% in our top 1/4 FCPS HS went to VT or JMU. Pretty much the same caliber kid, except for engineering. Some GMU mixed in. But the good but not greats went to those two schools in packs.