VT ahead of WM in USNews

[Anonymous]

This is heartbreaking, DD was preparing to apply ED at W&M and now I need to sit her down to break this news to her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is heartbreaking, DD was preparing to apply ED at W&M and now I need to sit her down to break this news to her.

Sarcasm?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is heartbreaking, DD was preparing to apply ED at W&M and now I need to sit her down to break this news to her.

Sarcasm?

I hope, but on dcum you never know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s because the focus of the rankings has changed to how schools help lower income and first gen students rather than things like class sizes and undergrad education. That has been VT’s focus for the the last few years.

From the NYT article :


“The company discarded five factors that often favored wealthy colleges and together made up 18 percent of a school’s score, including undergraduate class sizes, alumni giving rates and high school class standing.

This year’s formula, which relied more on data sources beyond submissions by schools, also gave less weight to overall graduation rates and financial resources per student, which examines how much, on average, a university spends per student on costs like instruction and research.”

Ignoring undergrad class size when ranking undergrad institutions seems questionable at best

The class size was so flawed. Gave top scores to class size under 20, but most college profs will tell you a room of 12 kids sometimes doesn't have enough voices for real discussion. 20 is fine. Also, it really skews my subject. There are not a lot of STEM classes with tiny numbers. So some schools tried to through labs in there, which is so different. It made no sense.

Better schools keep STEM classes and labs smaller. Large tech schools cramming hundreds of kids into a lecture hall isn't a good thing

[Anonymous]

Rankings now pay more attention to outcomes than before.
VA Tech has better outcome

https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?233921-Virginia-Polytechnic-Institute-and-State-University
$77,621

https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?231624-William-Mary
$69,897

Ranking makes sense.

[Anonymous]

My Tech kid has all classes under 100 kids, and some lower. She did get out of most basic classes with her AP scores, so maybe that is why. Honestly, non of her STEM friends went to W&M, even though they got in. They went to Tech, UVA, and CNU- or out of state like Perdue and tech universities in the NorthEast. It came off as a school in flux (with construction and needed updates) with a strength in humanities. The people we know going there are all humanities majors. It makes sense that if STEM is the goal- then W&M won’t fare well in rankings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read a story on WTOP where they quoted the USNW people as saying they are favoring schools with strong STEM over general liberal arts education.

Maybe the above rationale explains why UVA is getting kicked out of top 25 this year.

It it didn’t UVA moved from 25 to 24. OP just didn’t list it in her first post

[Anonymous]

The things that ranked W&M higher traditionally, class size, terminal degrees of professors, alum giving etc were eliminated. Certainly does NOT mean VT is a better school to me. It doesn't help that W&M is very expensive for a state school and has a higher rate of student debt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My Tech kid has all classes under 100 kids, and some lower. She did get out of most basic classes with her AP scores, so maybe that is why. Honestly, non of her STEM friends went to W&M, even though they got in. They went to Tech, UVA, and CNU- or out of state like Perdue and tech universities in the NorthEast. It came off as a school in flux (with construction and needed updates) with a strength in humanities. The people we know going there are all humanities majors. It makes sense that if STEM is the goal- then W&M won’t fare well in rankings.

Having 100 person advanced classes doesn't seem great.

[Anonymous]

unless you are going to be a lawyer liberal arts is garbage in general for rich kids who don't need to work

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My Tech kid has all classes under 100 kids, and some lower. She did get out of most basic classes with her AP scores, so maybe that is why. Honestly, non of her STEM friends went to W&M, even though they got in. They went to Tech, UVA, and CNU- or out of state like Perdue and tech universities in the NorthEast. It came off as a school in flux (with construction and needed updates) with a strength in humanities. The people we know going there are all humanities majors. It makes sense that if STEM is the goal- then W&M won’t fare well in rankings.

My STEM kid is having a great experience at W&M. Small classes, tons of access to profs and research opportunities! STEM isn’t just engineering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My Tech kid has all classes under 100 kids, and some lower. She did get out of most basic classes with her AP scores, so maybe that is why. Honestly, non of her STEM friends went to W&M, even though they got in. They went to Tech, UVA, and CNU- or out of state like Perdue and tech universities in the NorthEast. It came off as a school in flux (with construction and needed updates) with a strength in humanities. The people we know going there are all humanities majors. It makes sense that if STEM is the goal- then W&M won’t fare well in rankings.

Having 100 person advanced classes doesn't seem great.

Just one class is 100- and that may be the regular (non advanced) classes. The rest are much lower. One has 25 or 30 and I am not sure about the others, but she is very happy the numbers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My Tech kid has all classes under 100 kids, and some lower. She did get out of most basic classes with her AP scores, so maybe that is why. Honestly, non of her STEM friends went to W&M, even though they got in. They went to Tech, UVA, and CNU- or out of state like Perdue and tech universities in the NorthEast. It came off as a school in flux (with construction and needed updates) with a strength in humanities. The people we know going there are all humanities majors. It makes sense that if STEM is the goal- then W&M won’t fare well in rankings.

My STEM kid is having a great experience at W&M. Small classes, tons of access to profs and research opportunities! STEM isn’t just engineering.

Good to hear. I wrote about my kid at Tech and DC is math/physics. Not engineering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:no, there are more rich students who attend W&M.

This. VT’s DEI admissions policy of hitting 40% URM paid off. WM has a very affluent student body a a very high percentage of white and Asian students. And it’s the most expensive public college for instate students in the country. It’s a niche school. You can argue whether the DEI shortcoming are problematic, or not, but it’s reality. Their pell grant rate and social mobility rate suck. You could argue that goes against the idea that public colleges should serve all of the public. That would be a valid point. But, it doesn’t diminish the quality of the education. WM is #6 in undergrad teaching. That says a lot.

Plus, the schools are apples and oranges. A head to head comparison is pointless. WM is a better fit in the LAC category. It’s only in national Us because of the law and business schools. I would choose VT of engineering/CS and WM things like history, government and IR.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:no, there are more rich students who attend W&M.

+1

These rankings are for the schools that have more poors. It makes sense need-blind schools that don't cost a cent are ranked higher.