VT ahead of WM in USNews

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven’t been to VT in a long time. Has it changed so much in those years? It was in a rural town and most of what students did for fun was drink and watch sports? My husband transferred out because there was nothing there if that wasn’t your scene. W&M also not exactly in a bustling location but definitely has less of a Greek influence. Unless Tech has changed entirely over those years (and hey maybe it has) these just don’t seem like schools the same kind of student would choose.

VT has less than 20% Greek participation. The vast majority of students there are not Greek, but are involved in the more than 800 clubs. I believe W&M has a higher Greek percentage precisely because there is not much to do there. I think your views of the schools are vastly outdated.

Maybe it’s because everyone I live around is obsessed with UVA vs. VT sports. It’s always turned me off to both schools.

Ok? A lot of people find schools with good sports teams and spirit - *as well* as great academics - to be appealing. Which is why my kids were always turned off by W&M.

Yes. Lots of people do. I don’t. And my guess is most of the students who apply to schools like W&M don’t find sports culture very interesting. That’s why I said I don’t know that they attract the same kinds of students.

Im down in the Richmond area, and I don’t know what it’s like in NOVA, but you’d think the people in the suburbs never got beyond college. So many cavalier and Hokies flags everywhere. 45 year olds still obsessed with college sports.

Tell you weren’t born in the US without telling me you weren’t born in the US.

Why do you think you and your ilk represent THE US?

My family has lived here for generations and the whole rah rah, caring who wins the Superbowl , etc holds no appeal for me or the males in my family.

Not all Americans are cut from the same cloth.

[Anonymous]

US News removed almost 20% of the criteria which caused the significant drop for smaller schools (mostly private) and rise for large publics:

- small class size
- student achievement (top 10% high school class)
- faculties with PhDs
- Alumni givings
- 4 year graduation rate

It has come to a point that there should be two rankings: one for privates and small publics like UVA and W&M that keep the above criteria for academic quality and class size, and one for large publics. They are two very different schools, and there is no point of mixing them together.

[Anonymous]

VT and W&M take kids from all over Virginia.

I think you guys tend to forget that the rest of Virginia exists.

You have kids in Bristol and Galax and Farmville giving your kids a run for their money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:US News removed almost 20% of the criteria which caused the significant drop for smaller schools (mostly private) and rise for large publics:

- small class size
- student achievement (top 10% high school class)
- faculties with PhDs
- Alumni givings
- 4 year graduation rate

It has come to a point that there should be two rankings: one for privates and small publics like UVA and W&M that keep the above criteria for academic quality and class size, and one for large publics. They are two very different schools, and there is no point of mixing them together.

Yes, this version of the US News rankings are social mobility rankings, not best schools. That may be relevant to many people but it’s not what most of DCUM looks to rankings for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:VT and W&M take kids from all over Virginia.

I think you guys tend to forget that the rest of Virginia exists.

You have kids in Bristol and Galax and Farmville giving your kids a run for their money.

We try to forget ROVA exists (except Hampton Roads, etc). Too many MAGA flags.

But I agree. There are lots of smart kids at VT and WM from all over VA. And am not blind to the fact some countries sent 1 or 2 kids to WM and UVA. So these kids really are doing all they can with the opportunities provided. Then again, I’m a product of mediocre Southern public schools. And my kids FCPS education is so much stronger and they were so much more prepared for college that I was. I doubt entrants from some parts of ROVA are as prepared. But, I did the work and graduated phi beta kappa. And I know many ROVA kids do to. Bit, I do think they have to play catch up a bit at first. Especially in writing and discussion based classes.

My DD had a really nice ROVA roommate at WM freshman year. Who flunked into Econ— twice. And had to change their planned IR major as a result, because Ir required a four course econ sequence. And not for lack or using the tutoring center and studying and attending class, and going to office hours and even working problem sets with DD, who also did intro Econ. DD said she was surprised at the gaps in knowledge from an otherwise bright, hardworking kid.

[Anonymous]

W&M is well past its prime. What does W&M excel in? It doesn’t have any signature programs, and seems to rest on its historical position.

VT has an outstanding Engineering program. And is much more innovative in terms of robotics, automation, agri-business, etc.

W&M needs to determine what its identity will be, other than a small-ish state school that educated a few of the first presidents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:W&M is well past its prime. What does W&M excel in? It doesn’t have any signature programs, and seems to rest on its historical position.

VT has an outstanding Engineering program. And is much more innovative in terms of robotics, automation, agri-business, etc.

W&M needs to determine what its identity will be, other than a small-ish state school that educated a few of the first presidents.

It excels in undergraduate education.

Something the ranking-obsessed parents sometime forget is the point of college.

[Anonymous]

As a point of comparison, read up on Virginia Tech’s “Math Emporium!”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a point of comparison, read up on Virginia Tech’s “Math Emporium!”

Compared to what?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a point of comparison, read up on Virginia Tech’s “Math Emporium!”

Compared to what?

DP with kid at another college, but I would say compared to an in-person class taught by a professor.

Had friends with a weak math kid at Virginia Tech and the kid struggled mighty with their emporium. Until them I had no idea this was even a thing at a college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does this strike anyone else as off? VT is a fine institution that has certainly made great strides.

But, WM has a lower acceptance rate, more professors with PHD’s from top schools, smaller classes, higher proportion of students doing undergraduate research, and the most obvious indicator, WM students often head to Ivys and high tier consulting and govt jobs directly after college, while VT grads USUALLY head a bit lower. These are not close, btw, this is all by a decently significant margin.

Again, I don’t want to fall into the trap of giving too much credence to rankings, but what is the reason for this? Does this mean VT has truly overtaken WM in terms of prestige and job opportunities?

Do you have any actual links to back up your claims? Any at all?

No, I don’t, other than being a recent graduate with a ton of friends at both schools, as well as having explored the post grad outcomes pages on both their websites. I admit ancedotal evidence. But I am sure deep research would back my claims.

Is this a parody response?

+1
“I feel it my bones that my absurd assertions are true, thus they must be true.” All anyone has to do is look on the website for post grad destinations to see what BS the PP is peddling.

Links were provided areas in which W&M is in top 20 in graduate salaries among public universities (Finance, Technology, Management Consulting, Marketing and Law)

https://www.wsj.com/articles/top-colleges-hig...b8?mod=ig_collegepay
https://www.wsj.com/articles/top-colleges-hig...8c?mod=ig_collegepay
https://www.wsj.com/articles/top-colleges-hig...c9?mod=ig_collegepay
https://www.wsj.com/articles/stanford-berkele...25?mod=ig_collegepay
https://www.wsj.com/articles/top-colleges-hig...a3?mod=ig_collegepay

You are being challenged on your ridiculous claim, above - helpfully bolded for your convenience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:W&M is well past its prime. What does W&M excel in? It doesn’t have any signature programs, and seems to rest on its historical position.

VT has an outstanding Engineering program. And is much more innovative in terms of robotics, automation, agri-business, etc.

W&M needs to determine what its identity will be, other than a small-ish state school that educated a few of the first presidents.

As PP said, W&M excels at undergraduate education, which one would think would be important for an undergraduate program assessment. Compared to the public universities USNWR now ranks above it, W&M:

Ranks highest in undergraduate teaching (UWNWR)
Has the best student-to-faculty ratio
Has the highest percentage of undergraduate students living on campus
Has the highest percentage of undergraduate alumni who donate to their Alma Mater
Has the highest percentage of graduates earning Fulbright awards over the last 10 years
Has the highest percentage of graduates earning PhDs and the second highest percentage of graduates earning PhDs in STEM fields
Is tied for first in 4 year graduation rate for Pell Grant students
Has the highest federal graduation rate for student athletes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you ask: Does this mean VT has truly overtaken WM in terms of prestige and job opportunities?


Why do you think these rankings have anything to do with either of these things? They quite clearly do not.

Take job opportunity. One measure of that might be earnings 10 years out. Santa Clara is ranked 60 this year, but is ranked 6 for salary 10 years out. Note Dame and WPI are identical for salary 10 years out, but USNWR has them at 20 and 82 this year, but they were 19 and 62 a few years ago.

What does VT passing W&M mean then?

That their campaign to increase DEI and hit 40% URM/ 1st Gen worked. Interestingly, many, many parents on this board complain loudly about that policy and say it overlooks strong students in favor of weak ones. Lot of bitter remarks about it when admissions decisions are released. But, in this case it worked to their benefit.

WM is just not strong onDEI metics. Being small, having a private like atmosphere and being so expensive doesn’t help them. But they also aren’t putting in the type of effort VT has.

So, so you like the new VT policy now? Or still pissed that it might keep your NOVA white/Asian kid out?

hahaha this +10000 SO true. VT alums/parents have been complaining for the last few years about the first gen directive from the president and look what happened? Now your proud?

DP. I haven’t complained about this at all. My white UMC kids had no problem with admittance. Sorry yours weren’t as fortunate, but there’s nothing wrong with helping 1st Gen students. Most of them are white, btw.

of course they had no problem getting in, it has a high acceptance rate.

And yet, we had pages and pages of tantrum-throwing parents whose kids did not get in when they assumed they would. Huh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:VT and W&M take kids from all over Virginia.

I think you guys tend to forget that the rest of Virginia exists.

You have kids in Bristol and Galax and Farmville giving your kids a run for their money.

+1
Those are the kids many of these posters disparage. They couldn't *possibly* be as bright as *MY* angel!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:US News removed almost 20% of the criteria which caused the significant drop for smaller schools (mostly private) and rise for large publics:

- small class size
- student achievement (top 10% high school class)
- faculties with PhDs
- Alumni givings
- 4 year graduation rate

It has come to a point that there should be two rankings: one for privates and small publics like UVA and W&M that keep the above criteria for academic quality and class size, and one for large publics. They are two very different schools, and there is no point of mixing them together.

Yes, this version of the US News rankings are social mobility rankings, not best schools. That may be relevant to many people but it’s not what most of DCUM looks to rankings for.

DP. I find it kind of interesting, actually. Seeing which schools graduate successful students - of all socio-economic stripes - who are prepared to contribute to our society and economy is useful. Those are the kinds of schools I'd want my kids to attend, not some rarefied, precious, ivory tower-type place.