NY times op ed on the teacher crisis

[Anonymous]

I absolutely adored my job as a high school math teacher. Seriously, the 7:30-3:30 part was amazing. The kids were fun, the teaching was meaningful, and I enjoyed the challenge.

I quit in June.

I found a job making $50k more than my teaching salary making slide decks for a government contractor. How do you turn that down? $70k-$120k is a no brainer. It's going to pay for my kids to go to college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with some earlier posters that talking about emails is a bit of a red herring. Every profession (and presumably teachers want to be considered a profession not just a job) deals with long hours and annoying emails.

The difference for me, and frankly the thing they should actually be complaining about, is the behavior of the kids and especially the violence. That should be 100% unacceptable. No student or teacher should go to school knowing there’s a non-insignificant chance that they’ll be hurt today.

If teachers rallied around that one issue only then they’d get full support from the community - and therefore the lawmakers - and we could actually keep teachers (and kids!) safe. I think that would help a lot.

No, they wouldn't get full support from the community. We don't have support from admins on this. We don't have support from school boards on this. Why do you imagine "the community" would support us? There'd be push back from all kinds of groups of people.

+1. The people supporting discipline are reviled as racist or ableist or not respectful of the kid's lived experience or something.

Yep. The behaviour is kids is pretty much the only (and it is huge) valid complain teachers have and it absolutely needs to change how schools deal with it. It is sad that it wont likely change bc everyone is too afraid it isn’t PC, and the backlash they would receive.

All the other teacher complains are pretty much complaints everyone has about their job

I agree about the discipline but I think you're naive to think that their other complaints are petty and incidental. There are huge systemic problems with our education system that teachers are forced to grapple with. Schools are not adequately funded, particularly when viewed in the context of our other inadequately funded social safety net programs. Even as teachers are underpaid, schools are forced to pick up the slack in non-educational areas as well. Right wing policymakers are trying to side-step dealing with these inadequacies with programs like vouchers and charter schools; but this is foolish. None of the successful educational systems in other parts of the world use vouchers or charters.

Schools are adequately funded, in fact, better funded than most of the world. But the funds are misused. Schools can’t and shouldn’t function as the provider of a days worth of food, therapies, counselling, medical needs, clothing closet, etc. School is an educational institution and needs to start functioning solely as such. Majority of educational funds are inappropriately allocated for social welfare purposes.

Student assistance should be budgeted separately from teacher and staff compensation. The two should not be looked at as a mixed bag, at all.

It is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some parents constantly email, about every little thing. I don’t need to know why Susie has a band-aid on her knee. Believe me, she’s going to tell the whole class. I don’t care that a week from Tuesday Jose will be leaving early to see his grandparents. Just send him with a note that morning. There’s nothing worse than opening your computer in the morning and having to take time to read and respond. Ask yourself, if this was in your childhood, would your mom have called the teacher on the phone about it? If it’s that important, go ahead and email. Otherwise, let it go.

Ok, so if it is not relevant, ignore and move on. I don’t get why this is such a burden.

I think sometimes in this conversation, we need to make a distinction between "things about teaching that are hard or annoying" and "aspects of education that make teaching intolerable or not worth it."

Now, if you want to talk about parents who harass teachers, try to insert themselves into classroom management, complain about normal things to administration, etc., I get it. A unique thing about teaching is this relationship you have with your students' parents, and while you don't work for them, you still have to deal with them. If they are awful and your administration doesn't back you up, that is a huge issue. Ideally teachers and parents should operate as partners in educating kids -- there should be mutual respect and collaboration.

But complaining about a parent whose like "hey Jimmy cut up his knee pretty badly last night on his bike -- it's bandaged up but just wanted to let you know in case you complains about it or has any issues" is just petty. I get why getting a lot of emails like that would be annoying, because I have my own version of that in my own job. It cannot be the reason people are leaving the profession, and if it is, I think they will discover that almost any other job they get will have annoyances at a similar level.

+1000 if teachers think there's no annoying emails in the corporate sector that they will need to respond to, they are sorely mistaken. Also, I constantly hear "working outside of contract hours" as a reason they dislike the job. I don't know any corporate employee that doesn't. In fact, I go to my DD's activity several nights a week and there are a few moms that are teachers and they are NEVER working, but nearly every other working parent there is tethered to their laptop and cell phone.

I just don't buy it. Now, issues like ill behaved children and lack of support from their admin... those seem much more valid reasons to quit.

I'm sorry you don't buy what the teachers in this thread are telling you about their lived experience. There's not much more they can do.

NP. But the things being complained about are pretty much present in every single profession. Long hours, “overtime”, annoying emails, using your own money and resources toward something to do to with your job. To me, these are standard issues every professional adult deals with at work.

Right? I could say all of the same things about my job. Especially the overtime part. I'm never really off. I have clients texting/calling/emailing all hours of the day. I know teachers are off most evenings (at least my kids') because of how long it takes them to respond. In all of our years at school, I've only had one teacher regularly respond within 24 hours. And I'm not a parent that emails a whole lot. That would be absolutely unacceptable in my job.

I'm not saying they aren't dealing with annoying emails and overtime, I'm sure they are, but if those are the deal breakers ... well, there's a lot of jobs that aren't going to be a great fit for you. Not sure what to say.

Do you realize teachers don’t sit at a desk staring at a computer all day like you do at your job? When I was a teacher I never sat down, never had time to check email let alone respond to it until after hours because I was…teaching.

PP you are quoting. I love how you assume that my job entails being at a desk all day. It does not. Some days, I am not in front of my computer at all and I respond to all emails after hours. I get pulled in a million directions a day ... just like a teacher. And I could chill out that an email wasn't replied to in 24 hours if it didn't turn into a week+ after a reminder email. That is my experience with teachers (minus maybe one).

And your salary?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with some earlier posters that talking about emails is a bit of a red herring. Every profession (and presumably teachers want to be considered a profession not just a job) deals with long hours and annoying emails.

The difference for me, and frankly the thing they should actually be complaining about, is the behavior of the kids and especially the violence. That should be 100% unacceptable. No student or teacher should go to school knowing there’s a non-insignificant chance that they’ll be hurt today.

If teachers rallied around that one issue only then they’d get full support from the community - and therefore the lawmakers - and we could actually keep teachers (and kids!) safe. I think that would help a lot.

No, they wouldn't get full support from the community. We don't have support from admins on this. We don't have support from school boards on this. Why do you imagine "the community" would support us? There'd be push back from all kinds of groups of people.

+1. The people supporting discipline are reviled as racist or ableist or not respectful of the kid's lived experience or something.

Yep. The behaviour is kids is pretty much the only (and it is huge) valid complain teachers have and it absolutely needs to change how schools deal with it. It is sad that it wont likely change bc everyone is too afraid it isn’t PC, and the backlash they would receive.

All the other teacher complains are pretty much complaints everyone has about their job

I agree about the discipline but I think you're naive to think that their other complaints are petty and incidental. There are huge systemic problems with our education system that teachers are forced to grapple with. Schools are not adequately funded, particularly when viewed in the context of our other inadequately funded social safety net programs. Even as teachers are underpaid, schools are forced to pick up the slack in non-educational areas as well. Right wing policymakers are trying to side-step dealing with these inadequacies with programs like vouchers and charter schools; but this is foolish. None of the successful educational systems in other parts of the world use vouchers or charters.

Schools are adequately funded, in fact, better funded than most of the world. But the funds are misused. Schools can’t and shouldn’t function as the provider of a days worth of food, therapies, counselling, medical needs, clothing closet, etc. School is an educational institution and needs to start functioning solely as such. Majority of educational funds are inappropriately allocated for social welfare purposes.

Yes, schools here actually have TOO MUCH money, that’s the problem. They get high on their own power and there are expectations that since we’re giving them SO MUCH money then they need to address other issues.

The cost of educating one student for one year is higher here in the US than in any other country in the world, by far, sometimes by 10x!

Where do you get the idea that they are given too much money? I agree with PP that funds are often misused but how much do you think it should cost to educate a child? In VA it costs 14K per year. How much should it be?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some parents constantly email, about every little thing. I don’t need to know why Susie has a band-aid on her knee. Believe me, she’s going to tell the whole class. I don’t care that a week from Tuesday Jose will be leaving early to see his grandparents. Just send him with a note that morning. There’s nothing worse than opening your computer in the morning and having to take time to read and respond. Ask yourself, if this was in your childhood, would your mom have called the teacher on the phone about it? If it’s that important, go ahead and email. Otherwise, let it go.

Ok, so if it is not relevant, ignore and move on. I don’t get why this is such a burden.

I think sometimes in this conversation, we need to make a distinction between "things about teaching that are hard or annoying" and "aspects of education that make teaching intolerable or not worth it."

Now, if you want to talk about parents who harass teachers, try to insert themselves into classroom management, complain about normal things to administration, etc., I get it. A unique thing about teaching is this relationship you have with your students' parents, and while you don't work for them, you still have to deal with them. If they are awful and your administration doesn't back you up, that is a huge issue. Ideally teachers and parents should operate as partners in educating kids -- there should be mutual respect and collaboration.

But complaining about a parent whose like "hey Jimmy cut up his knee pretty badly last night on his bike -- it's bandaged up but just wanted to let you know in case you complains about it or has any issues" is just petty. I get why getting a lot of emails like that would be annoying, because I have my own version of that in my own job. It cannot be the reason people are leaving the profession, and if it is, I think they will discover that almost any other job they get will have annoyances at a similar level.

+1000 if teachers think there's no annoying emails in the corporate sector that they will need to respond to, they are sorely mistaken. Also, I constantly hear "working outside of contract hours" as a reason they dislike the job. I don't know any corporate employee that doesn't. In fact, I go to my DD's activity several nights a week and there are a few moms that are teachers and they are NEVER working, but nearly every other working parent there is tethered to their laptop and cell phone.

I just don't buy it. Now, issues like ill behaved children and lack of support from their admin... those seem much more valid reasons to quit.

I'm sorry you don't buy what the teachers in this thread are telling you about their lived experience. There's not much more they can do.

NP. But the things being complained about are pretty much present in every single profession. Long hours, “overtime”, annoying emails, using your own money and resources toward something to do to with your job. To me, these are standard issues every professional adult deals with at work.

Right? I could say all of the same things about my job. Especially the overtime part. I'm never really off. I have clients texting/calling/emailing all hours of the day. I know teachers are off most evenings (at least my kids') because of how long it takes them to respond. In all of our years at school, I've only had one teacher regularly respond within 24 hours. And I'm not a parent that emails a whole lot. That would be absolutely unacceptable in my job.

I'm not saying they aren't dealing with annoying emails and overtime, I'm sure they are, but if those are the deal breakers ... well, there's a lot of jobs that aren't going to be a great fit for you. Not sure what to say.

Do you realize teachers don’t sit at a desk staring at a computer all day like you do at your job? When I was a teacher I never sat down, never had time to check email let alone respond to it until after hours because I was…teaching.

PP you are quoting. I love how you assume that my job entails being at a desk all day. It does not. Some days, I am not in front of my computer at all and I respond to all emails after hours. I get pulled in a million directions a day ... just like a teacher. And I could chill out that an email wasn't replied to in 24 hours if it didn't turn into a week+ after a reminder email. That is my experience with teachers (minus maybe one).

And your salary?

Not the PP but I worked in events planning for 10 years and it was exactly like that and I made between 55k and 75k in that job. Long days, always on email after hours, on my feet all day, sometimes for 10+ hours, often worked weekends. I left because it was not a sustainable job if I wanted to have kids.

I say this not because I don't think teaching is a hard job, but just because I often see comments on here that seem to assume that everyone has some WFH, on your computer all day job that also pays over 100k. I've never made over 100k, and I've had plenty of hard jobs, including many that involve dealing with lots of petty complaints, being on my feet, and dealing with challenging people. I honestly think that's most jobs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I absolutely adored my job as a high school math teacher. Seriously, the 7:30-3:30 part was amazing. The kids were fun, the teaching was meaningful, and I enjoyed the challenge.

I quit in June.

I found a job making $50k more than my teaching salary making slide decks for a government contractor. How do you turn that down? $70k-$120k is a no brainer. It's going to pay for my kids to go to college.

Do you work the same hours? Have the same amount of time off?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I absolutely adored my job as a high school math teacher. Seriously, the 7:30-3:30 part was amazing. The kids were fun, the teaching was meaningful, and I enjoyed the challenge.

I quit in June.

I found a job making $50k more than my teaching salary making slide decks for a government contractor. How do you turn that down? $70k-$120k is a no brainer. It's going to pay for my kids to go to college.

Do you work the same hours? Have the same amount of time off?

Way way way less hours, way more flexibility. I have gone to sleep by 11 pm every night since I started the new job. In teaching, the kids left at 3:30 but I always brought piles of work home. I'd work until 10 pm on a good night, 2 am on a rough night, and usually at least 5-6 hours on the weekend. The amount of effort it takes to make good lessons and provide real feedback is unreal. I was sick all the time from lack of sleep, and I had taught for almost 15 years. It wasn't 1st year teacher burnout.

Now? I get to work from home 3 days a week. If I have a doctor's appointment I flex an hour instead of having to create an entire day's worth of sub plans in addition to my regular work. I have 6 weeks PTO plus the week between Christmas and NYD my company is shut down, so less than a teacher but not drastically so. My contract as a teacher was 195 days - 5 PTO days = 190 days (38 weeks), my contract with my new employer is 260 days - 10 holidays - 30 days PTO - 5 days shut down = 215 days = 43 weeks. So 5 weeks (13%) more than before, but they're at home and they're 40-50 hour weeks max, instead of 60+. Plus, 70% more money.

Regardless, I can't pay bills with time off. College tuition can't be paid with winter break. Private sector salaries have ballooned in the last decade, while after 13 years of teaching I only made $11k more than I did when I started. If pay can't keep up, anyone who has the skills to leave is going to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I absolutely adored my job as a high school math teacher. Seriously, the 7:30-3:30 part was amazing. The kids were fun, the teaching was meaningful, and I enjoyed the challenge.

I quit in June.

I found a job making $50k more than my teaching salary making slide decks for a government contractor. How do you turn that down? $70k-$120k is a no brainer. It's going to pay for my kids to go to college.

Do you work the same hours? Have the same amount of time off?

Way way way less hours, way more flexibility. I have gone to sleep by 11 pm every night since I started the new job. In teaching, the kids left at 3:30 but I always brought piles of work home. I'd work until 10 pm on a good night, 2 am on a rough night, and usually at least 5-6 hours on the weekend. The amount of effort it takes to make good lessons and provide real feedback is unreal. I was sick all the time from lack of sleep, and I had taught for almost 15 years. It wasn't 1st year teacher burnout.

Now? I get to work from home 3 days a week. If I have a doctor's appointment I flex an hour instead of having to create an entire day's worth of sub plans in addition to my regular work. I have 6 weeks PTO plus the week between Christmas and NYD my company is shut down, so less than a teacher but not drastically so. My contract as a teacher was 195 days - 5 PTO days = 190 days (38 weeks), my contract with my new employer is 260 days - 10 holidays - 30 days PTO - 5 days shut down = 215 days = 43 weeks. So 5 weeks (13%) more than before, but they're at home and they're 40-50 hour weeks max, instead of 60+. Plus, 70% more money.

Regardless, I can't pay bills with time off. College tuition can't be paid with winter break. Private sector salaries have ballooned in the last decade, while after 13 years of teaching I only made $11k more than I did when I started. If pay can't keep up, anyone who has the skills to leave is going to.

Maybe teachers should be paid more, and expected to work 12 months per year. Instead of all the breaks they get, time kids aren’t in school on breaks can be used for planning and professional development. It is silly to expect teachers to only work the hours students are in the building. That isn’t realistic. Teaching should be considered, and compensated, as a full time job 12 month per year with 2-4 weeks vacation they can take on any days kids they are not expected to be in building teaching.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with some earlier posters that talking about emails is a bit of a red herring. Every profession (and presumably teachers want to be considered a profession not just a job) deals with long hours and annoying emails.

The difference for me, and frankly the thing they should actually be complaining about, is the behavior of the kids and especially the violence. That should be 100% unacceptable. No student or teacher should go to school knowing there’s a non-insignificant chance that they’ll be hurt today.

If teachers rallied around that one issue only then they’d get full support from the community - and therefore the lawmakers - and we could actually keep teachers (and kids!) safe. I think that would help a lot.

No, they wouldn't get full support from the community. We don't have support from admins on this. We don't have support from school boards on this. Why do you imagine "the community" would support us? There'd be push back from all kinds of groups of people.

+1. The people supporting discipline are reviled as racist or ableist or not respectful of the kid's lived experience or something.

Yep. The behaviour is kids is pretty much the only (and it is huge) valid complain teachers have and it absolutely needs to change how schools deal with it. It is sad that it wont likely change bc everyone is too afraid it isn’t PC, and the backlash they would receive.

All the other teacher complains are pretty much complaints everyone has about their job

I agree about the discipline but I think you're naive to think that their other complaints are petty and incidental. There are huge systemic problems with our education system that teachers are forced to grapple with. Schools are not adequately funded, particularly when viewed in the context of our other inadequately funded social safety net programs. Even as teachers are underpaid, schools are forced to pick up the slack in non-educational areas as well. Right wing policymakers are trying to side-step dealing with these inadequacies with programs like vouchers and charter schools; but this is foolish. None of the successful educational systems in other parts of the world use vouchers or charters.

Schools are adequately funded, in fact, better funded than most of the world. But the funds are misused. Schools can’t and shouldn’t function as the provider of a days worth of food, therapies, counselling, medical needs, clothing closet, etc. School is an educational institution and needs to start functioning solely as such. Majority of educational funds are inappropriately allocated for social welfare purposes.

I'd agree with you if the other social welfare necessities were adequately funded in the U.S. By and large they are not, so schools have to back fill the deficiencies so they can get on with the business of educating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with some earlier posters that talking about emails is a bit of a red herring. Every profession (and presumably teachers want to be considered a profession not just a job) deals with long hours and annoying emails.

The difference for me, and frankly the thing they should actually be complaining about, is the behavior of the kids and especially the violence. That should be 100% unacceptable. No student or teacher should go to school knowing there’s a non-insignificant chance that they’ll be hurt today.

If teachers rallied around that one issue only then they’d get full support from the community - and therefore the lawmakers - and we could actually keep teachers (and kids!) safe. I think that would help a lot.

No, they wouldn't get full support from the community. We don't have support from admins on this. We don't have support from school boards on this. Why do you imagine "the community" would support us? There'd be push back from all kinds of groups of people.

+1. The people supporting discipline are reviled as racist or ableist or not respectful of the kid's lived experience or something.

Yep. The behaviour is kids is pretty much the only (and it is huge) valid complain teachers have and it absolutely needs to change how schools deal with it. It is sad that it wont likely change bc everyone is too afraid it isn’t PC, and the backlash they would receive.

All the other teacher complains are pretty much complaints everyone has about their job

I agree about the discipline but I think you're naive to think that their other complaints are petty and incidental. There are huge systemic problems with our education system that teachers are forced to grapple with. Schools are not adequately funded, particularly when viewed in the context of our other inadequately funded social safety net programs. Even as teachers are underpaid, schools are forced to pick up the slack in non-educational areas as well. Right wing policymakers are trying to side-step dealing with these inadequacies with programs like vouchers and charter schools; but this is foolish. None of the successful educational systems in other parts of the world use vouchers or charters.

Schools are adequately funded, in fact, better funded than most of the world. But the funds are misused. Schools can’t and shouldn’t function as the provider of a days worth of food, therapies, counselling, medical needs, clothing closet, etc. School is an educational institution and needs to start functioning solely as such. Majority of educational funds are inappropriately allocated for social welfare purposes.

Yes, schools here actually have TOO MUCH money, that’s the problem. They get high on their own power and there are expectations that since we’re giving them SO MUCH money then they need to address other issues.

The cost of educating one student for one year is higher here in the US than in any other country in the world, by far, sometimes by 10x!

They get high on their own power? You are delusional.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with some earlier posters that talking about emails is a bit of a red herring. Every profession (and presumably teachers want to be considered a profession not just a job) deals with long hours and annoying emails.

The difference for me, and frankly the thing they should actually be complaining about, is the behavior of the kids and especially the violence. That should be 100% unacceptable. No student or teacher should go to school knowing there’s a non-insignificant chance that they’ll be hurt today.

If teachers rallied around that one issue only then they’d get full support from the community - and therefore the lawmakers - and we could actually keep teachers (and kids!) safe. I think that would help a lot.

No, they wouldn't get full support from the community. We don't have support from admins on this. We don't have support from school boards on this. Why do you imagine "the community" would support us? There'd be push back from all kinds of groups of people.

+1. The people supporting discipline are reviled as racist or ableist or not respectful of the kid's lived experience or something.

Yep. The behaviour is kids is pretty much the only (and it is huge) valid complain teachers have and it absolutely needs to change how schools deal with it. It is sad that it wont likely change bc everyone is too afraid it isn’t PC, and the backlash they would receive.

All the other teacher complains are pretty much complaints everyone has about their job

I agree about the discipline but I think you're naive to think that their other complaints are petty and incidental. There are huge systemic problems with our education system that teachers are forced to grapple with. Schools are not adequately funded, particularly when viewed in the context of our other inadequately funded social safety net programs. Even as teachers are underpaid, schools are forced to pick up the slack in non-educational areas as well. Right wing policymakers are trying to side-step dealing with these inadequacies with programs like vouchers and charter schools; but this is foolish. None of the successful educational systems in other parts of the world use vouchers or charters.

Schools are adequately funded, in fact, better funded than most of the world. But the funds are misused. Schools can’t and shouldn’t function as the provider of a days worth of food, therapies, counselling, medical needs, clothing closet, etc. School is an educational institution and needs to start functioning solely as such. Majority of educational funds are inappropriately allocated for social welfare purposes.

Yes, schools here actually have TOO MUCH money, that’s the problem. They get high on their own power and there are expectations that since we’re giving them SO MUCH money then they need to address other issues.

The cost of educating one student for one year is higher here in the US than in any other country in the world, by far, sometimes by 10x!

Where do you get the idea that they are given too much money? I agree with PP that funds are often misused but how much do you think it should cost to educate a child? In VA it costs 14K per year. How much should it be?

Why do you agree with PP that funds are "often misused." What percentage of funds do you believe are misused and in what fashion?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I absolutely adored my job as a high school math teacher. Seriously, the 7:30-3:30 part was amazing. The kids were fun, the teaching was meaningful, and I enjoyed the challenge.

I quit in June.

I found a job making $50k more than my teaching salary making slide decks for a government contractor. How do you turn that down? $70k-$120k is a no brainer. It's going to pay for my kids to go to college.

Do you work the same hours? Have the same amount of time off?

Way way way less hours, way more flexibility. I have gone to sleep by 11 pm every night since I started the new job. In teaching, the kids left at 3:30 but I always brought piles of work home. I'd work until 10 pm on a good night, 2 am on a rough night, and usually at least 5-6 hours on the weekend. The amount of effort it takes to make good lessons and provide real feedback is unreal. I was sick all the time from lack of sleep, and I had taught for almost 15 years. It wasn't 1st year teacher burnout.

Now? I get to work from home 3 days a week. If I have a doctor's appointment I flex an hour instead of having to create an entire day's worth of sub plans in addition to my regular work. I have 6 weeks PTO plus the week between Christmas and NYD my company is shut down, so less than a teacher but not drastically so. My contract as a teacher was 195 days - 5 PTO days = 190 days (38 weeks), my contract with my new employer is 260 days - 10 holidays - 30 days PTO - 5 days shut down = 215 days = 43 weeks. So 5 weeks (13%) more than before, but they're at home and they're 40-50 hour weeks max, instead of 60+. Plus, 70% more money.

Regardless, I can't pay bills with time off. College tuition can't be paid with winter break. Private sector salaries have ballooned in the last decade, while after 13 years of teaching I only made $11k more than I did when I started. If pay can't keep up, anyone who has the skills to leave is going to.

Maybe teachers should be paid more, and expected to work 12 months per year. Instead of all the breaks they get, time kids aren’t in school on breaks can be used for planning and professional development. It is silly to expect teachers to only work the hours students are in the building. That isn’t realistic. Teaching should be considered, and compensated, as a full time job 12 month per year with 2-4 weeks vacation they can take on any days kids they are not expected to be in building teaching.

I think if school were 2 less hours per day or 1 less days per week, it could be year round and work. That is how much extra time teaching requires to keep it to an 8-9 hour a day workload. If you're going to make it 12 months but keep it 7 hour school days and 5 days a week of lessons and grading, then you need to double all salaries at minimum. The only way most teachers survive September - June is because of July and August.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I absolutely adored my job as a high school math teacher. Seriously, the 7:30-3:30 part was amazing. The kids were fun, the teaching was meaningful, and I enjoyed the challenge.

I quit in June.

I found a job making $50k more than my teaching salary making slide decks for a government contractor. How do you turn that down? $70k-$120k is a no brainer. It's going to pay for my kids to go to college.

Do you work the same hours? Have the same amount of time off?

Way way way less hours, way more flexibility. I have gone to sleep by 11 pm every night since I started the new job. In teaching, the kids left at 3:30 but I always brought piles of work home. I'd work until 10 pm on a good night, 2 am on a rough night, and usually at least 5-6 hours on the weekend. The amount of effort it takes to make good lessons and provide real feedback is unreal. I was sick all the time from lack of sleep, and I had taught for almost 15 years. It wasn't 1st year teacher burnout.

Now? I get to work from home 3 days a week. If I have a doctor's appointment I flex an hour instead of having to create an entire day's worth of sub plans in addition to my regular work. I have 6 weeks PTO plus the week between Christmas and NYD my company is shut down, so less than a teacher but not drastically so. My contract as a teacher was 195 days - 5 PTO days = 190 days (38 weeks), my contract with my new employer is 260 days - 10 holidays - 30 days PTO - 5 days shut down = 215 days = 43 weeks. So 5 weeks (13%) more than before, but they're at home and they're 40-50 hour weeks max, instead of 60+. Plus, 70% more money.

Regardless, I can't pay bills with time off. College tuition can't be paid with winter break. Private sector salaries have ballooned in the last decade, while after 13 years of teaching I only made $11k more than I did when I started. If pay can't keep up, anyone who has the skills to leave is going to.

Maybe teachers should be paid more, and expected to work 12 months per year. Instead of all the breaks they get, time kids aren’t in school on breaks can be used for planning and professional development. It is silly to expect teachers to only work the hours students are in the building. That isn’t realistic. Teaching should be considered, and compensated, as a full time job 12 month per year with 2-4 weeks vacation they can take on any days kids they are not expected to be in building teaching.

I think if school were 2 less hours per day or 1 less days per week, it could be year round and work. That is how much extra time teaching requires to keep it to an 8-9 hour a day workload. If you're going to make it 12 months but keep it 7 hour school days and 5 days a week of lessons and grading, then you need to double all salaries at minimum. The only way most teachers survive September - June is because of July and August.

I’m not saying students should be in school 12 months, just teachers. They should get the bulk of their planning and training done in June,July, August- while students are not there. Working 8-10 hrs per day during the school year should be acceptable. Most professionals put in somewhere between 8-12 hrs per day on a regular basis with no official overtime pay, just their salary

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I absolutely adored my job as a high school math teacher. Seriously, the 7:30-3:30 part was amazing. The kids were fun, the teaching was meaningful, and I enjoyed the challenge.

I quit in June.

I found a job making $50k more than my teaching salary making slide decks for a government contractor. How do you turn that down? $70k-$120k is a no brainer. It's going to pay for my kids to go to college.

Do you work the same hours? Have the same amount of time off?

Way way way less hours, way more flexibility. I have gone to sleep by 11 pm every night since I started the new job. In teaching, the kids left at 3:30 but I always brought piles of work home. I'd work until 10 pm on a good night, 2 am on a rough night, and usually at least 5-6 hours on the weekend. The amount of effort it takes to make good lessons and provide real feedback is unreal. I was sick all the time from lack of sleep, and I had taught for almost 15 years. It wasn't 1st year teacher burnout.

Now? I get to work from home 3 days a week. If I have a doctor's appointment I flex an hour instead of having to create an entire day's worth of sub plans in addition to my regular work. I have 6 weeks PTO plus the week between Christmas and NYD my company is shut down, so less than a teacher but not drastically so. My contract as a teacher was 195 days - 5 PTO days = 190 days (38 weeks), my contract with my new employer is 260 days - 10 holidays - 30 days PTO - 5 days shut down = 215 days = 43 weeks. So 5 weeks (13%) more than before, but they're at home and they're 40-50 hour weeks max, instead of 60+. Plus, 70% more money.

Regardless, I can't pay bills with time off. College tuition can't be paid with winter break. Private sector salaries have ballooned in the last decade, while after 13 years of teaching I only made $11k more than I did when I started. If pay can't keep up, anyone who has the skills to leave is going to.

Maybe teachers should be paid more, and expected to work 12 months per year. Instead of all the breaks they get, time kids aren’t in school on breaks can be used for planning and professional development. It is silly to expect teachers to only work the hours students are in the building. That isn’t realistic. Teaching should be considered, and compensated, as a full time job 12 month per year with 2-4 weeks vacation they can take on any days kids they are not expected to be in building teaching.

I think if school were 2 less hours per day or 1 less days per week, it could be year round and work. That is how much extra time teaching requires to keep it to an 8-9 hour a day workload. If you're going to make it 12 months but keep it 7 hour school days and 5 days a week of lessons and grading, then you need to double all salaries at minimum. The only way most teachers survive September - June is because of July and August.

I’m not saying students should be in school 12 months, just teachers. They should get the bulk of their planning and training done in June,July, August- while students are not there. Working 8-10 hrs per day during the school year should be acceptable. Most professionals put in somewhere between 8-12 hrs per day on a regular basis with no official overtime pay, just their salary

I understand the thought behind this, but at least in regards to planning, there would be no point in doing it over the summer. Lessons need to be tinkered with constantly based on class dynamics, which we don't know until we have the kids. I'm now wondering if there are enough meaningful tasks to keep teachers occupied over the summer. That's kinda the hard part. Most of what we do is centered around our current cohort

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I agree with some earlier posters that talking about emails is a bit of a red herring. Every profession (and presumably teachers want to be considered a profession not just a job) deals with long hours and annoying emails.

The difference for me, and frankly the thing they should actually be complaining about, is the behavior of the kids and especially the violence. That should be 100% unacceptable. No student or teacher should go to school knowing there’s a non-insignificant chance that they’ll be hurt today.

If teachers rallied around that one issue only then they’d get full support from the community - and therefore the lawmakers - and we could actually keep teachers (and kids!) safe. I think that would help a lot.

No, they wouldn't get full support from the community. We don't have support from admins on this. We don't have support from school boards on this. Why do you imagine "the community" would support us? There'd be push back from all kinds of groups of people.

+1. The people supporting discipline are reviled as racist or ableist or not respectful of the kid's lived experience or something.

Yep. The behaviour is kids is pretty much the only (and it is huge) valid complain teachers have and it absolutely needs to change how schools deal with it. It is sad that it wont likely change bc everyone is too afraid it isn’t PC, and the backlash they would receive.

All the other teacher complains are pretty much complaints everyone has about their job

I agree about the discipline but I think you're naive to think that their other complaints are petty and incidental. There are huge systemic problems with our education system that teachers are forced to grapple with. Schools are not adequately funded, particularly when viewed in the context of our other inadequately funded social safety net programs. Even as teachers are underpaid, schools are forced to pick up the slack in non-educational areas as well. Right wing policymakers are trying to side-step dealing with these inadequacies with programs like vouchers and charter schools; but this is foolish. None of the successful educational systems in other parts of the world use vouchers or charters.

Schools are adequately funded, in fact, better funded than most of the world. But the funds are misused. Schools can’t and shouldn’t function as the provider of a days worth of food, therapies, counselling, medical needs, clothing closet, etc. School is an educational institution and needs to start functioning solely as such. Majority of educational funds are inappropriately allocated for social welfare purposes.

Yes, schools here actually have TOO MUCH money, that’s the problem. They get high on their own power and there are expectations that since we’re giving them SO MUCH money then they need to address other issues.

The cost of educating one student for one year is higher here in the US than in any other country in the world, by far, sometimes by 10x!

Where do you get the idea that they are given too much money? I agree with PP that funds are often misused but how much do you think it should cost to educate a child? In VA it costs 14K per year. How much should it be?

Why do you agree with PP that funds are "often misused." What percentage of funds do you believe are misused and in what fashion?

I'm specifically thinking about my district. I don't know about funds elsewhere but I am sure that they often are. In my district (Arlington) the superintendent added a ton of new administrative staff and is getting extra office space for administrative offices, even though a lot of staff works from home. I know that in other areas there are issues with sketchy consultant fees, kickbacks, etc. I think it is both true that schools are underfunded (just based on what they are supposed to have and how much that costs compared to what they actually have) and that they often misuse money.