NY times op ed on the teacher crisis

[Anonymous]

I like how the author casually fails to mention of the impacts of progressive education policy in recent years, like instituting restorative Justice programs or less punitive approaches to managing disruptive students (like suspensions or of removing trouble students from classes), and it’s effect on teacher retention. If teachers feel they can’t teach properly because they have no recourse for disruptive students, or are in danger, but are forced to keep violent kids in classes because of these types of idealistic, naive policies, it would be good to read about that. Instead we get a watered down version of the truth.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/13/opinion/teachers-schools-students-parents.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I like how the author casually fails to mention of the impacts of progressive education policy in recent years, like instituting restorative Justice programs or less punitive approaches to managing disruptive students (like suspensions or of removing trouble students from classes), and it’s effect on teacher retention. If teachers feel they can’t teach properly because they have no recourse for disruptive students, or are in danger, but are forced to keep violent kids in classes because of these types of idealistic, naive policies, it would be good to read about that. Instead we get a watered down version of the truth.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/13/opinion/teachers-schools-students-parents.html

If your thesis were true, the red America wouldn't be facing the same crisis, but some of the biggest shortage are in some of the reddest districts of the reddest states

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I like how the author casually fails to mention of the impacts of progressive education policy in recent years, like instituting restorative Justice programs or less punitive approaches to managing disruptive students (like suspensions or of removing trouble students from classes), and it’s effect on teacher retention. If teachers feel they can’t teach properly because they have no recourse for disruptive students, or are in danger, but are forced to keep violent kids in classes because of these types of idealistic, naive policies, it would be good to read about that. Instead we get a watered down version of the truth.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/13/opinion/teachers-schools-students-parents.html

If your thesis were true, the red America wouldn't be facing the same crisis, but some of the biggest shortage are in some of the reddest districts of the reddest states

+1
In addition, many of the policies about keeping students in classes have nothing to do with progressive education but are a factor of special education laws that all schools have to follow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I like how the author casually fails to mention of the impacts of progressive education policy in recent years, like instituting restorative Justice programs or less punitive approaches to managing disruptive students (like suspensions or of removing trouble students from classes), and it’s effect on teacher retention. If teachers feel they can’t teach properly because they have no recourse for disruptive students, or are in danger, but are forced to keep violent kids in classes because of these types of idealistic, naive policies, it would be good to read about that. Instead we get a watered down version of the truth.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/13/opinion/teachers-schools-students-parents.html

If your thesis were true, the red America wouldn't be facing the same crisis, but some of the biggest shortage are in some of the reddest districts of the reddest states

+1
In addition, many of the policies about keeping students in classes have nothing to do with progressive education but are a factor of special education laws that all schools have to follow.

Progressive policies where remedial learners are kept in classes with advanced learners, getting rid of tracking or ap classes or teaching to the lowest denominator are all factors in this.

The author generally focuses the article partly on culture war stuff like stupid southern schools banning any discussion of trans issues etc, but neglects to include a discussion of the very real problematic issues of teachers being unable to control their classrooms and discipline kids. Basically out of control kids have to stay in the classroom because it’s now “unfair” to suspend or remove them. Until teachers feel safe and respected a big part of teacher retention is unaddressed and the lack of teachers will continue. I agree with much of the other problems in the article, but why it so hard to admit we can’t just restorative Justice hug problems away?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I like how the author casually fails to mention of the impacts of progressive education policy in recent years, like instituting restorative Justice programs or less punitive approaches to managing disruptive students (like suspensions or of removing trouble students from classes), and it’s effect on teacher retention. If teachers feel they can’t teach properly because they have no recourse for disruptive students, or are in danger, but are forced to keep violent kids in classes because of these types of idealistic, naive policies, it would be good to read about that. Instead we get a watered down version of the truth.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/13/opinion/teachers-schools-students-parents.html

If your thesis were true, the red America wouldn't be facing the same crisis, but some of the biggest shortage are in some of the reddest districts of the reddest states

+1
In addition, many of the policies about keeping students in classes have nothing to do with progressive education but are a factor of special education laws that all schools have to follow.

Progressive policies where remedial learners are kept in classes with advanced learners, getting rid of tracking or ap classes or teaching to the lowest denominator are all factors in this.

The author generally focuses the article partly on culture war stuff like stupid southern schools banning any discussion of trans issues etc, but neglects to include a discussion of the very real problematic issues of teachers being unable to control their classrooms and discipline kids. Basically out of control kids have to stay in the classroom because it’s now “unfair” to suspend or remove them. Until teachers feel safe and respected a big part of teacher retention is unaddressed and the lack of teachers will continue. I agree with much of the other problems in the article, but why it so hard to admit we can’t just restorative Justice hug problems away?

Then why are red states who are as far removed from progressive policies as you can possibly get facing the same (and in some cases greater) shortages?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I like how the author casually fails to mention of the impacts of progressive education policy in recent years, like instituting restorative Justice programs or less punitive approaches to managing disruptive students (like suspensions or of removing trouble students from classes), and it’s effect on teacher retention. If teachers feel they can’t teach properly because they have no recourse for disruptive students, or are in danger, but are forced to keep violent kids in classes because of these types of idealistic, naive policies, it would be good to read about that. Instead we get a watered down version of the truth.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/13/opinion/teachers-schools-students-parents.html

If your thesis were true, the red America wouldn't be facing the same crisis, but some of the biggest shortage are in some of the reddest districts of the reddest states

+1
In addition, many of the policies about keeping students in classes have nothing to do with progressive education but are a factor of special education laws that all schools have to follow.

IDEA *does not require* that disruptive kids stay in the classroom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I like how the author casually fails to mention of the impacts of progressive education policy in recent years, like instituting restorative Justice programs or less punitive approaches to managing disruptive students (like suspensions or of removing trouble students from classes), and it’s effect on teacher retention. If teachers feel they can’t teach properly because they have no recourse for disruptive students, or are in danger, but are forced to keep violent kids in classes because of these types of idealistic, naive policies, it would be good to read about that. Instead we get a watered down version of the truth.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/13/opinion/teachers-schools-students-parents.html

If your thesis were true, the red America wouldn't be facing the same crisis, but some of the biggest shortage are in some of the reddest districts of the reddest states

+1
In addition, many of the policies about keeping students in classes have nothing to do with progressive education but are a factor of special education laws that all schools have to follow.

Progressive policies where remedial learners are kept in classes with advanced learners, getting rid of tracking or ap classes or teaching to the lowest denominator are all factors in this.

The author generally focuses the article partly on culture war stuff like stupid southern schools banning any discussion of trans issues etc, but neglects to include a discussion of the very real problematic issues of teachers being unable to control their classrooms and discipline kids. Basically out of control kids have to stay in the classroom because it’s now “unfair” to suspend or remove them. Until teachers feel safe and respected a big part of teacher retention is unaddressed and the lack of teachers will continue. I agree with much of the other problems in the article, but why it so hard to admit we can’t just restorative Justice hug problems away?

Then why are red states who are as far removed from progressive policies as you can possibly get facing the same (and in some cases greater) shortages?

Schools and school policies are handled at the local level. State politics or “color” have very little to do with how kids are disciplined (or not) in schools.

The “red” southern states you’re talking about have some of the most “blue” cities, and those cities are where the biggest problems are with the schools and therefore teacher retention.

Trying to turn this into a red/blue thing (especially when the biggest problems are in the blue areas anyway) is really not serving our kids. We need to make these discussions about education and kids, not politics.

[Anonymous]

Op here. If we can’t have an honest discussion where constructive criticism of discipline policy is a focal issue then we can continue to bury our heads and lament as teacher shortages rise. If teachers don’t feel safe they won’t teach. If they have disruptive or violent kids in their classes who must remain there because of policy then you’ll see the problem be an issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I like how the author casually fails to mention of the impacts of progressive education policy in recent years, like instituting restorative Justice programs or less punitive approaches to managing disruptive students (like suspensions or of removing trouble students from classes), and it’s effect on teacher retention. If teachers feel they can’t teach properly because they have no recourse for disruptive students, or are in danger, but are forced to keep violent kids in classes because of these types of idealistic, naive policies, it would be good to read about that. Instead we get a watered down version of the truth.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/13/opinion/teachers-schools-students-parents.html

If your thesis were true, the red America wouldn't be facing the same crisis, but some of the biggest shortage are in some of the reddest districts of the reddest states

+1
In addition, many of the policies about keeping students in classes have nothing to do with progressive education but are a factor of special education laws that all schools have to follow.

Progressive policies where remedial learners are kept in classes with advanced learners, getting rid of tracking or ap classes or teaching to the lowest denominator are all factors in this.

The author generally focuses the article partly on culture war stuff like stupid southern schools banning any discussion of trans issues etc, but neglects to include a discussion of the very real problematic issues of teachers being unable to control their classrooms and discipline kids. Basically out of control kids have to stay in the classroom because it’s now “unfair” to suspend or remove them. Until teachers feel safe and respected a big part of teacher retention is unaddressed and the lack of teachers will continue. I agree with much of the other problems in the article, but why it so hard to admit we can’t just restorative Justice hug problems away?

Then why are red states who are as far removed from progressive policies as you can possibly get facing the same (and in some cases greater) shortages?

Schools and school policies are handled at the local level. State politics or “color” have very little to do with how kids are disciplined (or not) in schools.

The “red” southern states you’re talking about have some of the most “blue” cities, and those cities are where the biggest problems are with the schools and therefore teacher retention.

Trying to turn this into a red/blue thing (especially when the biggest problems are in the blue areas anyway) is really not serving our kids. We need to make these discussions about education and kids, not politics.

OK but OP started a political thread with cliched talking points, not problem solving.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I like how the author casually fails to mention of the impacts of progressive education policy in recent years, like instituting restorative Justice programs or less punitive approaches to managing disruptive students (like suspensions or of removing trouble students from classes), and it’s effect on teacher retention. If teachers feel they can’t teach properly because they have no recourse for disruptive students, or are in danger, but are forced to keep violent kids in classes because of these types of idealistic, naive policies, it would be good to read about that. Instead we get a watered down version of the truth.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/13/opinion/teachers-schools-students-parents.html

If your thesis were true, the red America wouldn't be facing the same crisis, but some of the biggest shortage are in some of the reddest districts of the reddest states

+1
In addition, many of the policies about keeping students in classes have nothing to do with progressive education but are a factor of special education laws that all schools have to follow.

Progressive policies where remedial learners are kept in classes with advanced learners, getting rid of tracking or ap classes or teaching to the lowest denominator are all factors in this.

The author generally focuses the article partly on culture war stuff like stupid southern schools banning any discussion of trans issues etc, but neglects to include a discussion of the very real problematic issues of teachers being unable to control their classrooms and discipline kids. Basically out of control kids have to stay in the classroom because it’s now “unfair” to suspend or remove them. Until teachers feel safe and respected a big part of teacher retention is unaddressed and the lack of teachers will continue. I agree with much of the other problems in the article, but why it so hard to admit we can’t just restorative Justice hug problems away?

Then why are red states who are as far removed from progressive policies as you can possibly get facing the same (and in some cases greater) shortages?

Schools and school policies are handled at the local level. State politics or “color” have very little to do with how kids are disciplined (or not) in schools.

The “red” southern states you’re talking about have some of the most “blue” cities, and those cities are where the biggest problems are with the schools and therefore teacher retention.

Trying to turn this into a red/blue thing (especially when the biggest problems are in the blue areas anyway) is really not serving our kids. We need to make these discussions about education and kids, not politics.

OK, pp blamed progressive policies, I'm asking why the shortage is most acute in red areas of red states.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op here. If we can’t have an honest discussion where constructive criticism of discipline policy is a focal issue then we can continue to bury our heads and lament as teacher shortages rise. If teachers don’t feel safe they won’t teach. If they have disruptive or violent kids in their classes who must remain there because of policy then you’ll see the problem be an issue.

I'm a teacher and I love restorative justice programs. It's not even in the top 5 reasons I'm constantly one foot out the door.

1) The pay
2) The hours outside of contractual time
3) Parent expectations in terms of constant communication
4) Abundance of mandated state testing
5) Being in one of the few fields that will never transition to a remote or hybrid model.

You don't like RJ clearly, considering your OP was immediately blaming progressives for the teacher shortage. Here is a teacher telling you that RJ is not an issue to me at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I like how the author casually fails to mention of the impacts of progressive education policy in recent years, like instituting restorative Justice programs or less punitive approaches to managing disruptive students (like suspensions or of removing trouble students from classes), and it’s effect on teacher retention. If teachers feel they can’t teach properly because they have no recourse for disruptive students, or are in danger, but are forced to keep violent kids in classes because of these types of idealistic, naive policies, it would be good to read about that. Instead we get a watered down version of the truth.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/13/opinion/teachers-schools-students-parents.html

If your thesis were true, the red America wouldn't be facing the same crisis, but some of the biggest shortage are in some of the reddest districts of the reddest states

+1
In addition, many of the policies about keeping students in classes have nothing to do with progressive education but are a factor of special education laws that all schools have to follow.

Progressive policies where remedial learners are kept in classes with advanced learners, getting rid of tracking or ap classes or teaching to the lowest denominator are all factors in this.

The author generally focuses the article partly on culture war stuff like stupid southern schools banning any discussion of trans issues etc, but neglects to include a discussion of the very real problematic issues of teachers being unable to control their classrooms and discipline kids. Basically out of control kids have to stay in the classroom because it’s now “unfair” to suspend or remove them. Until teachers feel safe and respected a big part of teacher retention is unaddressed and the lack of teachers will continue. I agree with much of the other problems in the article, but why it so hard to admit we can’t just restorative Justice hug problems away?

Then why are red states who are as far removed from progressive policies as you can possibly get facing the same (and in some cases greater) shortages?

They also have fewer doctors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I like how the author casually fails to mention of the impacts of progressive education policy in recent years, like instituting restorative Justice programs or less punitive approaches to managing disruptive students (like suspensions or of removing trouble students from classes), and it’s effect on teacher retention. If teachers feel they can’t teach properly because they have no recourse for disruptive students, or are in danger, but are forced to keep violent kids in classes because of these types of idealistic, naive policies, it would be good to read about that. Instead we get a watered down version of the truth.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/13/opinion/teachers-schools-students-parents.html

If your thesis were true, the red America wouldn't be facing the same crisis, but some of the biggest shortage are in some of the reddest districts of the reddest states

+1
In addition, many of the policies about keeping students in classes have nothing to do with progressive education but are a factor of special education laws that all schools have to follow.

Progressive policies where remedial learners are kept in classes with advanced learners, getting rid of tracking or ap classes or teaching to the lowest denominator are all factors in this.

The author generally focuses the article partly on culture war stuff like stupid southern schools banning any discussion of trans issues etc, but neglects to include a discussion of the very real problematic issues of teachers being unable to control their classrooms and discipline kids. Basically out of control kids have to stay in the classroom because it’s now “unfair” to suspend or remove them. Until teachers feel safe and respected a big part of teacher retention is unaddressed and the lack of teachers will continue. I agree with much of the other problems in the article, but why it so hard to admit we can’t just restorative Justice hug problems away?

Then why are red states who are as far removed from progressive policies as you can possibly get facing the same (and in some cases greater) shortages?

Schools and school policies are handled at the local level. State politics or “color” have very little to do with how kids are disciplined (or not) in schools.

The “red” southern states you’re talking about have some of the most “blue” cities, and those cities are where the biggest problems are with the schools and therefore teacher retention.

Trying to turn this into a red/blue thing (especially when the biggest problems are in the blue areas anyway) is really not serving our kids. We need to make these discussions about education and kids, not politics.

OK but OP started a political thread with cliched talking points, not problem solving.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here. If we can’t have an honest discussion where constructive criticism of discipline policy is a focal issue then we can continue to bury our heads and lament as teacher shortages rise. If teachers don’t feel safe they won’t teach. If they have disruptive or violent kids in their classes who must remain there because of policy then you’ll see the problem be an issue.

I'm a teacher and I love restorative justice programs. It's not even in the top 5 reasons I'm constantly one foot out the door.

1) The pay
2) The hours outside of contractual time
3) Parent expectations in terms of constant communication
4) Abundance of mandated state testing
5) Being in one of the few fields that will never transition to a remote or hybrid model.

You don't like RJ clearly, considering your OP was immediately blaming progressives for the teacher shortage. Here is a teacher telling you that RJ is not an issue to me at all.

+1 As a former teacher, I still have nightmares about the freaking paragraph length e-mails I would receive from SAHMs angered by a slight that their precious child received in class. Go do something else with your life! The teacher is already overburdened with the KIDS in her actual class in front of her. She doesn't have time to get on the computer and wrote you in length back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I like how the author casually fails to mention of the impacts of progressive education policy in recent years, like instituting restorative Justice programs or less punitive approaches to managing disruptive students (like suspensions or of removing trouble students from classes), and it’s effect on teacher retention. If teachers feel they can’t teach properly because they have no recourse for disruptive students, or are in danger, but are forced to keep violent kids in classes because of these types of idealistic, naive policies, it would be good to read about that. Instead we get a watered down version of the truth.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/13/opinion/teachers-schools-students-parents.html

If your thesis were true, the red America wouldn't be facing the same crisis, but some of the biggest shortage are in some of the reddest districts of the reddest states

+1
In addition, many of the policies about keeping students in classes have nothing to do with progressive education but are a factor of special education laws that all schools have to follow.

Progressive policies where remedial learners are kept in classes with advanced learners, getting rid of tracking or ap classes or teaching to the lowest denominator are all factors in this.

The author generally focuses the article partly on culture war stuff like stupid southern schools banning any discussion of trans issues etc, but neglects to include a discussion of the very real problematic issues of teachers being unable to control their classrooms and discipline kids. Basically out of control kids have to stay in the classroom because it’s now “unfair” to suspend or remove them. Until teachers feel safe and respected a big part of teacher retention is unaddressed and the lack of teachers will continue. I agree with much of the other problems in the article, but why it so hard to admit we can’t just restorative Justice hug problems away?

Then why are red states who are as far removed from progressive policies as you can possibly get facing the same (and in some cases greater) shortages?

Schools and school policies are handled at the local level. State politics or “color” have very little to do with how kids are disciplined (or not) in schools.

The “red” southern states you’re talking about have some of the most “blue” cities, and those cities are where the biggest problems are with the schools and therefore teacher retention.

Trying to turn this into a red/blue thing (especially when the biggest problems are in the blue areas anyway) is really not serving our kids. We need to make these discussions about education and kids, not politics.

As we have seen in FL, red states can and do control school policy at the state level, not just local level.