New VA trans policies for schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

NP. I wonder if there is a way to allow for judgment based on likelihood of medical intervention. I don’t think it’s workable to ask teachers to not call kids by their preferred names, just on a practical basis. And, I think it’s good for kids to have an outlet to experiment with identity. Who cares if Rebecca wants to be called Rex by her favorite teacher?

However, I also think it’s very problematic for schools to hide full gender transitions from parents, because of the medicalized potential outcomes. A parent can’t just find out their kid has adopted a trans identity when the child demands puberty blockers. That’s too late, and by then the child has probably absorbed a bunch of overtly wrong propaganda about medical transition. There is just so much coming out about how much misleading medical information has been promoted in the name of gender affirmative care. (Personally, given how things are going, I think that medicalized transition for youth is well on its way to being the lobotomy of our times.) It isn’t right for parents to only find out after their child has absorbed enormous amounts of misinformation about medical transitions.

Maybe there could be a judgment call: parents are notified when authorities at the school think the transition is enough that the child may ask for medical intervention. Idk, just thinking out loud and trying to bridge a tricky problem.

Mom of trans child again here. I want to address this post because I feel that you are trying to understand and come from a good place, but I also think you are doing harm to families and have some misinformation. First, to be clear, parents always control the decision and pace of any medical transition in any minor. A child who waits to inform parents would not be able to get medical transition and would have to wait longer because they would not have completed the pretransition steps that are required such as therapy and living full time in the gender. In any event, your concern would exist whether or not the child is outted by the school because all this policy will do is to make kids keep it to themselves longer rather than talk about it at school (none of which prevents them from doing their online research if they want).

Second, as a family facing this challenge and whose child has medically transitioned, please realize that the off hand comments like comparisons to lobotomies are extremely hurtful to us. Believe me, I did not want to have a child in this situation and was skeptical and questioning. We are doing the best we can and making decisions the best we can with love for our children at the forefront of it. We have relied on the expertise of medical professionals at the most respected medical institutions throughout. To suggest that we have (either deliberately or through stupidity) hurt our kids when you don't know that and to use the example of something that destroys people's personalities is simply mean. My child is still (and always will be) a wonderful person regardless of his body and we have always acted with the best intentions to do the best by him. If that turns out over the course of his life to be the wrong decision, I will be sad but at least I will know that we did the best we could. I would ask that you consider whether you have the same feelings about schools reporting kids when they or teachers know that the parents would likely refuse to accept their trans children or would kick out a child or (god forbid) abuse that child.

I’m the PP. Thanks for the thoughtful response. You have given me a lot to think about.

I do want to say one thing: nobody (well, nobody who isn’t insane) can ever doubt the love and caring of parents who followed the expertise and advice of the physicians who recommended medicalized transition for their children. NOBODY. I think there are a lot of questions as to how we ended up where we are now in the US, but that’s not at all a reflection of the dedication and love of parents like you for their kids. Those questions have to do with a profit-driven medical system, and are not at all about the clear and obvious love parents have for their trans kids. You are clearly and obviously a wonderful parent who had done the best possible for their child.

When I use the analogy to lobotomy, I was thinking more about the systemic faults that allowed the lobotomy to ever exist in the first place. The systemic failure that permitted the lobotomy also happened other widespread medical treatments that turned out to be very harmful overall but that started with positive and good intent: for instance, opioid clinics, or thalidomide. And it is those systemic failures that are alarming.

But I appreciate that it’s painful to hear the comparison as a parent as a trans kid, and I am not in your shoes. So, I won’t use that comparison any more. I think that there must be a way to talk rationally about some of the systemic failures in gender affirming care without comparing gender affirming care to lobotomies. And, as you correctly observe, there isn’t a loss of personality with medicalized gender affirmative care, so it’s probably a sloppy analogy anyhow even if my intent was only to talk about the systemic failures I see in both. In any event, I won’t use the comparison again.

I am very uncomfortable with the idea of teachers putting themselves forward as trusted adults with the idea of keeping secrets from parents. “Don’t tell your parents” is the prime directive of all abusers, and I’ve been uncomfortable for years with the increasingly aggressive bent towards that position that I’ve seen from schools. It does feel like there is the potential for enormous abuse here, and I don’t know how to manage that. I don’t think these rules are workable for teachers, but I also think that some schools across the country have really overstepped their boundaries.

Thanks again for the thoughtful answer. I’m not sure we will agree on everything, but I won’t use the comparison to lobotomies again.

A teacher telling a kid to keep a secret from their parents is bad, yes. A teacher complying with a kid's request to be called a certain name or use certain pronouns isn't doing that. Teachers have always served as trusted adults to kids, since forever. Demanding that schools report this stuff to parents regardless of the situation is setting kids up for abuse, rejection, and stress.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

NP. I wonder if there is a way to allow for judgment based on likelihood of medical intervention. I don’t think it’s workable to ask teachers to not call kids by their preferred names, just on a practical basis. And, I think it’s good for kids to have an outlet to experiment with identity. Who cares if Rebecca wants to be called Rex by her favorite teacher?

However, I also think it’s very problematic for schools to hide full gender transitions from parents, because of the medicalized potential outcomes. A parent can’t just find out their kid has adopted a trans identity when the child demands puberty blockers. That’s too late, and by then the child has probably absorbed a bunch of overtly wrong propaganda about medical transition. There is just so much coming out about how much misleading medical information has been promoted in the name of gender affirmative care. (Personally, given how things are going, I think that medicalized transition for youth is well on its way to being the lobotomy of our times.) It isn’t right for parents to only find out after their child has absorbed enormous amounts of misinformation about medical transitions.

Maybe there could be a judgment call: parents are notified when authorities at the school think the transition is enough that the child may ask for medical intervention. Idk, just thinking out loud and trying to bridge a tricky problem.

Mom of trans child again here. I want to address this post because I feel that you are trying to understand and come from a good place, but I also think you are doing harm to families and have some misinformation. First, to be clear, parents always control the decision and pace of any medical transition in any minor. A child who waits to inform parents would not be able to get medical transition and would have to wait longer because they would not have completed the pretransition steps that are required such as therapy and living full time in the gender. In any event, your concern would exist whether or not the child is outted by the school because all this policy will do is to make kids keep it to themselves longer rather than talk about it at school (none of which prevents them from doing their online research if they want).

Second, as a family facing this challenge and whose child has medically transitioned, please realize that the off hand comments like comparisons to lobotomies are extremely hurtful to us. Believe me, I did not want to have a child in this situation and was skeptical and questioning. We are doing the best we can and making decisions the best we can with love for our children at the forefront of it. We have relied on the expertise of medical professionals at the most respected medical institutions throughout. To suggest that we have (either deliberately or through stupidity) hurt our kids when you don't know that and to use the example of something that destroys people's personalities is simply mean. My child is still (and always will be) a wonderful person regardless of his body and we have always acted with the best intentions to do the best by him. If that turns out over the course of his life to be the wrong decision, I will be sad but at least I will know that we did the best we could. I would ask that you consider whether you have the same feelings about schools reporting kids when they or teachers know that the parents would likely refuse to accept their trans children or would kick out a child or (god forbid) abuse that child.

I’m the PP. Thanks for the thoughtful response. You have given me a lot to think about.

I do want to say one thing: nobody (well, nobody who isn’t insane) can ever doubt the love and caring of parents who followed the expertise and advice of the physicians who recommended medicalized transition for their children. NOBODY. I think there are a lot of questions as to how we ended up where we are now in the US, but that’s not at all a reflection of the dedication and love of parents like you for their kids. Those questions have to do with a profit-driven medical system, and are not at all about the clear and obvious love parents have for their trans kids. You are clearly and obviously a wonderful parent who had done the best possible for their child.

When I use the analogy to lobotomy, I was thinking more about the systemic faults that allowed the lobotomy to ever exist in the first place. The systemic failure that permitted the lobotomy also happened other widespread medical treatments that turned out to be very harmful overall but that started with positive and good intent: for instance, opioid clinics, or thalidomide. And it is those systemic failures that are alarming.

But I appreciate that it’s painful to hear the comparison as a parent as a trans kid, and I am not in your shoes. So, I won’t use that comparison any more. I think that there must be a way to talk rationally about some of the systemic failures in gender affirming care without comparing gender affirming care to lobotomies. And, as you correctly observe, there isn’t a loss of personality with medicalized gender affirmative care, so it’s probably a sloppy analogy anyhow even if my intent was only to talk about the systemic failures I see in both. In any event, I won’t use the comparison again.

I am very uncomfortable with the idea of teachers putting themselves forward as trusted adults with the idea of keeping secrets from parents. “Don’t tell your parents” is the prime directive of all abusers, and I’ve been uncomfortable for years with the increasingly aggressive bent towards that position that I’ve seen from schools. It does feel like there is the potential for enormous abuse here, and I don’t know how to manage that. I don’t think these rules are workable for teachers, but I also think that some schools across the country have really overstepped their boundaries.

Thanks again for the thoughtful answer. I’m not sure we will agree on everything, but I won’t use the comparison to lobotomies again.

A teacher telling a kid to keep a secret from their parents is bad, yes. A teacher complying with a kid's request to be called a certain name or use certain pronouns isn't doing that. Teachers have always served as trusted adults to kids, since forever. Demanding that schools report this stuff to parents regardless of the situation is setting kids up for abuse, rejection, and stress.

TEACHERS NEVER TELL KIDS TO KEEP SECRETS FROM THEIR FAMILIES. What the hell are you talking about??? If ANYTHING, the kids reveal stuff to us that as legally mandated reporters we *have* to pass on to admin, counselor, parents and then the kids get mad at us because they think we violated their trust. Stop acting like teachers are groomers who encourage secrecy between themselves and kids from parents, it’s literally the opposite.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are the rules really that bad? Don’t socially transition a child without the parent’s knowledge and permission? Sports that are segregated by sex continue to be segregated by sex rather than gender identity?

If you're a right wing conservative and anti trans then I guess the new rules are perfectly fine.

I'm neither, but women's rights don't get trumped by biological boys who don't want to compete against other biological boys.

This also though prevents bio girls from competing on bio boys teams. Meanwhile they get misgendered on bio girls teams because they have transitioned and look like "boys". Arlington Karens asking why there's a boy on the team LOUDLY. This happens all the time.

Yes. The anti trans people don't want trans kids to be anywhere. They are just supposed to "conform" or disappear I guess.

Or just select a gender appropriate sport where they are good enough to make the team.

What’s a gender appropriate sport? If a person born female is good enough to make the boys team, these rules don’t allow her to be on the team.

Is this true? I honestly don't 'know. When I was in HS in the late 90s we had a girl on our football team. Can girls not try out for boys teams at all?

These new rules no longer allow this. There are many girls on boys teams, as there has been for years. But these rules make girls only play girls sports on girls teams. Wake up people. Don’t you see what’s happening to women? White men in power are telling them where they belong and what they have rights to do?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are the rules really that bad? Don’t socially transition a child without the parent’s knowledge and permission? Sports that are segregated by sex continue to be segregated by sex rather than gender identity?

If you're a right wing conservative and anti trans then I guess the new rules are perfectly fine.

I'm neither, but women's rights don't get trumped by biological boys who don't want to compete against other biological boys.

This also though prevents bio girls from competing on bio boys teams. Meanwhile they get misgendered on bio girls teams because they have transitioned and look like "boys". Arlington Karens asking why there's a boy on the team LOUDLY. This happens all the time.

Yes. The anti trans people don't want trans kids to be anywhere. They are just supposed to "conform" or disappear I guess.

Or just select a gender appropriate sport where they are good enough to make the team.

What’s a gender appropriate sport? If a person born female is good enough to make the boys team, these rules don’t allow her to be on the team.

Is this true? I honestly don't 'know. When I was in HS in the late 90s we had a girl on our football team. Can girls not try out for boys teams at all?

These new rules no longer allow this. There are many girls on boys teams, as there has been for years. But these rules make girls only play girls sports on girls teams. Wake up people. Don’t you see what’s happening to women? White men in power are telling them where they belong and what they have rights to do?

Generally, girls are on the boys football team because there isn't a girls football team. These rules don't change any of that.

For sports with men's and women's teams, the divide ensures that women can compete. And it also protects girls in locker rooms. You can reject Title IX if you don't like it but this rule protects it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are the rules really that bad? Don’t socially transition a child without the parent’s knowledge and permission? Sports that are segregated by sex continue to be segregated by sex rather than gender identity?

If you're a right wing conservative and anti trans then I guess the new rules are perfectly fine.

I'm neither, but women's rights don't get trumped by biological boys who don't want to compete against other biological boys.

This also though prevents bio girls from competing on bio boys teams. Meanwhile they get misgendered on bio girls teams because they have transitioned and look like "boys". Arlington Karens asking why there's a boy on the team LOUDLY. This happens all the time.

Yes. The anti trans people don't want trans kids to be anywhere. They are just supposed to "conform" or disappear I guess.

Or just select a gender appropriate sport where they are good enough to make the team.

What’s a gender appropriate sport? If a person born female is good enough to make the boys team, these rules don’t allow her to be on the team.

Is this true? I honestly don't 'know. When I was in HS in the late 90s we had a girl on our football team. Can girls not try out for boys teams at all?

These new rules no longer allow this. There are many girls on boys teams, as there has been for years. But these rules make girls only play girls sports on girls teams. Wake up people. Don’t you see what’s happening to women? White men in power are telling them where they belong and what they have rights to do?

Generally, girls are on the boys football team because there isn't a girls football team. These rules don't change any of that.

For sports with men's and women's teams, the divide ensures that women can compete. And it also protects girls in locker rooms. You can reject Title IX if you don't like it but this rule protects it.

No, this allows a football/baseball/wrestling/hockey team to say it’s boys only. In some red states this is already happening.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a teacher. I'm calling a kid by the (reasonable) name they ask me to call them. Period. And if they ask me to use a different name with their parents I'm doing that too.

**LGBTQ youth who report having at least one accepting adult were 40% less likely to report a suicide attempt in the past year.**

I'm sure as F going to be that accepting adult without hesitation. It's quite literally the least I can do.

Don’t you have classes to teach and papers to grade? I sure don’t have time to get into other kids’ business.

^^^^ Are you kidding? Do you think as teachers that is our sole purpose? To teach and grade papers? Teachers save lives.

Yes teaching and grading papers is your job. Not to isolate students from their parents. And if you really believe that teachers save lives, schools never would have been shut down for 1.5 years during the pandemic. You caused more harm than you will ever take credit for.

It’s part of our job, obviously. We don’t isolate students from their parents. Those are your words. Way to bring in the pandemic; start a new thread.

[Anonymous]

Now I certainly believe that I can raise my kids how I want (within the bounds of the law) but the way parent's rights currently seems to be used is some weird uber controlling method where God forbid society or culture or anything else has any influence on your child. I never got the idea of wanting to keep my kid from being exposed to a lot of this stuff. If my kid is always in a bubble and only exposed to what I believe in or what I think then how I ever know that I raised them right?

It is when my kid comes up against conflict that they have a chance to make decisions (hopefully) in line with our morals. If I don't ever want them to come across thought that differs from ours it makes it seem like my belief system is so fragile that it can only survive in isolation surrounded by identical thought and views.

I send my kid to public school, in part, because I want them exposed to variety of ideas and cultures and ways of life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: Now I certainly believe that I can raise my kids how I want (within the bounds of the law) but the way parent's rights currently seems to be used is some weird uber controlling method where God forbid society or culture or anything else has any influence on your child. I never got the idea of wanting to keep my kid from being exposed to a lot of this stuff. If my kid is always in a bubble and only exposed to what I believe in or what I think then how I ever know that I raised them right?

It is when my kid comes up against conflict that they have a chance to make decisions (hopefully) in line with our morals. If I don't ever want them to come across thought that differs from ours it makes it seem like my belief system is so fragile that it can only survive in isolation surrounded by identical thought and views.

I send my kid to public school, in part, because I want them exposed to variety of ideas and cultures and ways of life.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are the rules really that bad? Don’t socially transition a child without the parent’s knowledge and permission? Sports that are segregated by sex continue to be segregated by sex rather than gender identity?

If you're a right wing conservative and anti trans then I guess the new rules are perfectly fine.

I'm neither, but women's rights don't get trumped by biological boys who don't want to compete against other biological boys.

This also though prevents bio girls from competing on bio boys teams. Meanwhile they get misgendered on bio girls teams because they have transitioned and look like "boys". Arlington Karens asking why there's a boy on the team LOUDLY. This happens all the time.

Yes. The anti trans people don't want trans kids to be anywhere. They are just supposed to "conform" or disappear I guess.

Or just select a gender appropriate sport where they are good enough to make the team.

What’s a gender appropriate sport? If a person born female is good enough to make the boys team, these rules don’t allow her to be on the team.

Is this true? I honestly don't 'know. When I was in HS in the late 90s we had a girl on our football team. Can girls not try out for boys teams at all?

These new rules no longer allow this. There are many girls on boys teams, as there has been for years. But these rules make girls only play girls sports on girls teams. Wake up people. Don’t you see what’s happening to women? White men in power are telling them where they belong and what they have rights to do?

Generally, girls are on the boys football team because there isn't a girls football team. These rules don't change any of that.

For sports with men's and women's teams, the divide ensures that women can compete. And it also protects girls in locker rooms. You can reject Title IX if you don't like it but this rule protects it.

No, this allows a football/baseball/wrestling/hockey team to say it’s boys only. In some red states this is already happening.

No reason to ban girls from boys sports, they should change the bill. Not that big of a deal either way, there are plenty of competitive girls sports.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a teacher. I'm calling a kid by the (reasonable) name they ask me to call them. Period. And if they ask me to use a different name with their parents I'm doing that too.

**LGBTQ youth who report having at least one accepting adult were 40% less likely to report a suicide attempt in the past year.**

I'm sure as F going to be that accepting adult without hesitation. It's quite literally the least I can do.

Don’t you have classes to teach and papers to grade? I sure don’t have time to get into other kids’ business.

^^^^ Are you kidding? Do you think as teachers that is our sole purpose? To teach and grade papers? Teachers save lives.

Yes teaching and grading papers is your job. Not to isolate students from their parents. And if you really believe that teachers save lives, schools never would have been shut down for 1.5 years during the pandemic. You caused more harm than you will ever take credit for.

It’s part of our job, obviously. We don’t isolate students from their parents. Those are your words. Way to bring in the pandemic; start a new thread.

If a parent won’t accept their child because the child wants to use a different name , they’re arguably the ones isolating themselves from their child. The school shouldn’t HAVE to be the one place your kids can feel accepted and loved for who they are, that starts at home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: Now I certainly believe that I can raise my kids how I want (within the bounds of the law) but the way parent's rights currently seems to be used is some weird uber controlling method where God forbid society or culture or anything else has any influence on your child. I never got the idea of wanting to keep my kid from being exposed to a lot of this stuff. If my kid is always in a bubble and only exposed to what I believe in or what I think then how I ever know that I raised them right?

It is when my kid comes up against conflict that they have a chance to make decisions (hopefully) in line with our morals. If I don't ever want them to come across thought that differs from ours it makes it seem like my belief system is so fragile that it can only survive in isolation surrounded by identical thought and views.

I send my kid to public school, in part, because I want them exposed to variety of ideas and cultures and ways of life.

Parents have always had the ultimate rights and responsibility of their kids. Always. SOME parents essentially want public school to adhere to THEIR personal beliefs and values which is not possible. You can homeschool if that’s a non-negotiable for you. If you can’t homeschool, you have to accept that public school serves the PUBLIC. Not the Johnson family’s religious or personal preferences.

[Anonymous]

I taught middle school 10 years ago and there were queer kids who had to stay closeted at home because their parents tried to “beat the gay” out of them. It was horrifying, and of course I told those kids there was nothing wrong with them, they were perfect just the way they were. I also did not disclose anything about their sexuality to their parents.

I think some of the PPs have no idea what goes on behind closed doors in too many households.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I taught middle school 10 years ago and there were queer kids who had to stay closeted at home because their parents tried to “beat the gay” out of them. It was horrifying, and of course I told those kids there was nothing wrong with them, they were perfect just the way they were. I also did not disclose anything about their sexuality to their parents.

I think some of the PPs have no idea what goes on behind closed doors in too many households.

People are trying to equate being queer or lgb with t but they are very different issues. Kids may think they're all the same, and advocates say they are all the same. But they're not. Very different issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I taught middle school 10 years ago and there were queer kids who had to stay closeted at home because their parents tried to “beat the gay” out of them. It was horrifying, and of course I told those kids there was nothing wrong with them, they were perfect just the way they were. I also did not disclose anything about their sexuality to their parents.

I think some of the PPs have no idea what goes on behind closed doors in too many households.

People are trying to equate being queer or lgb with t but they are very different issues. Kids may think they're all the same, and advocates say they are all the same. But they're not. Very different issues.

No we aren’t. LGBTQ is an acronym for a reason; it covers a multitude of identities. You may be trans AND queer. Trans is under the LGBTQ umbrella. That doesn’t mean that all anti-trans policies affect all queer kids, but all anti-queer policies do affect trans kids.

[Anonymous]

The attitude of some teachers posting here is that of the parent automatically being bad and an adversary. The APS superintendent didn't mention parents. This is why many parents question the public school system - they have no idea what may be going on at school with their children and fear that the school is not being honest with them. I anticipate that homeschooling and private schools will continue to see growth as parents seek an environment where they are fully informed.